**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S2E4 - 'Eldest'

[Oddwen]

Here we go! Here there be Barrow Wights!


Of a sort. They're not even from Cardolan.


This episode is a bunch of callbacks and references and dialogue lifted directly from different circumstances. More than usual. Tom Bombadil gaslighting the Stranger when he hears a woman's voice is unintentionally hilarious though?


I have to admit I cried a little hearing Bombadil's words from FotR. I haven't read the books in a long time and I might have to soon.





I can't figure out if Arondir & party meet the ents while still in Pelargir or if it's supposed to be Ithilien?




And I can't even remember if it was this episode or the last, I appreciate hearing an elf lord sing. We've had tavern songs and walking songs and leaving-these-shores songs and songs about lilies and mountains but this is an...administrative song? Gil-Galad got to take notes for the meeting this time and he knocked it out of the park!

[Huinesoron]

This one was so much fun. I was giggling the whole way through.

• I initially objected to the flyover shots of the Elves in the mountains, but actually, yeah, they had to pass through the Blue Mountains. Fair play to them.
• The subtitles say "Axa Bridge". Is that from Axan or Axor? Either the Bridge of Law or the Bridge of Bones.
• The very broken bridge is a bit of a geographical riddle. The map seemed to show it so far south that I thought it was going to be Ost-in-Edhil, but Team Elrond end up going south from it to Tyrn Gorthad = the Barrow-Downs. I think that means it's bridging the upper Brandywine, which never felt like the kind of river that had its own gorge, but like, I guess maybe? It's wide enough by the time it reaches the Shire that it could have, upstream.
• HA HA The Stranger got eaten by a tree! Not "had a fight with" - he just got randomly eaten. I guess that's the last we'll see of him.
• It was not the last we saw of him.
• "Old Man Ironwood" is really funny, because it implies that everywhere Tom goes, he runs into a Grumpy Old Man tree and uses exactly the same spell to get it to quiet down.
• The sheer volume of direct quotes in the Bombadil sequence is staggering. My wife says they wrote it for all those fans who complained about not seeing it back in FotR, and I can't argue.
• I was impressed by Bombadil, though. They made him a somewhat ominous and mysterious character, rather than a singing buffoon. I miss the blue jacket, though.
• Oddwen, I think Tom gaslighting the Stranger over Goldberry was intentionally hilarious. (Also, is Goldberry the lamb? Is she Old Man Ironwood? Hey, maybe she's also Old Man Willow - new headcanon!)
• Stoors! Racist Stoors! Oh, who's surprised, they're Hobbits, they were always racist.
• I love The Goom (or whatever) treating "Burrows" as a mysterious ancient surname for which there can be only one bearer. It's ridiculous.
• I paused the show to protest that "the Suzat" has the definite article in twice (Suza-t), and my wife looked at me, and then told me it was probably the geekiest thing I had ever said to her. ^_^
• The big reveal about Isildur's girlfriend being evil is just that... Arondir already clocked her brand, he just wasn't saying anything. Welp!
• My wife tells me that wound didn't look like a burn. She's a nurse, so she'd know.
• Isildur and Arondir in the Swamps of Sadness. Good thing they didn't bring the horse, we know how depressed horses can get in that place. (Yes, we watched Neverending Story again recently. Artax... )
• Well, I guess Isildur and Arondir are dead. Maybe it was his cousin Isildur the Angry who nicked the Ring WHOA WAIT WHAT IS THAT.
• NO ARONDIR YOU CAN'T JUST QUOTE THE BOOKS WHAT IS THAT.
• We will never find out. Or see anything again, because it's back to nighttime mode.
• I love the murder-entwife! These two are much more tree-shaped than the movie ents, it's pretty cool. (I do note they kept them in the dark so the CG could be cheaper.)
• Their names are Winterbloom and Snaggleroot. Not quite a match for Treebeard, Skinbark, Leaflock and the rest, but pretty close. (Naming Ent characters is surprisingly hard, actually.)
• They'd probably be something like *Rhîwloth and *Gamphond in Sindarin?
• Darn, Theo isn't dead.
• Sooo... where is this Ent-forest Arondir has just promised to prevent anyone from cutting wood in for an Age? Just north of Pelargir? Ithilien? Or are we somehow all the way up in Fangorn like Arondir's promise would suggest? Ultimately it doesn't matter, because he wanders off immediately, leaving the Wild men to continue hacking up any trees they please.
• Oh, and Isildur's girlfriend has found her betrothed who she said all along she was looking for.
• And then, Barrow-wights! The Downs are actually appropriate; there's definitely a line in the books saying they date from the First Age. I don't know why they're a forest now, though - the whole thing about downs is that trees don't grow there well.
• I really liked the creepy-eyes version of the Wights. If we'd just had that and the white hand that shows up once (before Elrond chops it off) I would have been delighted. Un-fortunately we also got zombies with chains, which, why? Did they steal them from Jacob and Robert Marley?
• I did like that Random Elf just got randomly shot. The Orcs loose one arrow - boomf, right in the chest. Sucks to be him. Except not, because Nenya can just heal mortal wounds now. Can Narya do the same thing? If Gandalf had been there on Amon Hen, would Boromir be with us today??
• And then Galadriel shows off the acrobatifighting from Season 1, and the Orcs have a napalm lantern for some reason, and luckily Adar is around, because otherwise she'd definitely be dead. Is she going to ally with him against Sauron? I genuinely would not be surprised.
• I giggled through the entire credits. They wrote! A Bombadil! Sooooong!

So yeah, this was amazing, best episode so far, A+++ no notes (except TURN THE LIGHTS ON ISILDUR).

hS

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

[*]I giggled through the entire credits. They wrote! A Bombadil! Sooooong![/LIST]

The Tom Bombadil song sung by Rufus Wainwright was pure magic. Overall, the soundtrack has been the best piece of the series in my opinion.

Bear McCreary has done a wonderful job bringing images and memories of reading Tolkien to life through his music. I daresay, I actually prefer it to Howard Shore's.

This episode was the best of the series, then I watched Episode 5 last night. I won't spoil it, I'm just going to say wow...Charlie Vickers (Annatar) and Charles Edwards (Celebrimbor) are so much fun to watch.

[Formendacil]

To start the end: yes, the Bombadil end credits song was an excellent surprise! I feel like I said every episode last year that I loved the opening credits, and that's still true (and the broader statement, that I like the music generally, is true too).

Moving on to the baby-in-arm notes:

Originally Posted by Formendacil with a baby in the other hand taking notes on his phone

Looks like we're getting more B plot
Opening credits Msic.ofnthr Inur
New costumes I see
What ricer is thsi gorge? Baranduin or Gwathlo?
Ah. Thr Adrowndowns, so we're already across the Baranduin
Pretty sure JoN Now knowsnornthingsbtah the stranger
Bombadil int Rh eEasy?!?!?! But be longs I HiS land!!!!
Doesn't look small enough?
Od Man Willow inRhunbtoo?
EasternnHarfeet.eh?
Folk fmHolluem Nd Dwdgol vibes
Holes are rowrmhobbit homes to ensure ire
Stoors eh
Seeing the wizard through Stooe eyes us a good choice
We're just getting the bombafil chapters translated are we
Something menacing at Hombdils is wring
Bomdbqdil doesn't care
Wanderer! No he isn't
Gabdlf vibes kornethan Saruma today
The Barrows really SHOUDLNT BMbe the Barrowdowns yet. The Witchining hasn't sent the bareowighhts yet. Mishing all this tougher removes the opportunity foe a 3rd age of any consequence
Telling f us rheure eights doesn't tell us what they are
Wight nmadws??¿!?!?
Wild Men? We're just making all the LoTr scenes leftmost of the movies
At least we aren't dragging this reveal out.
Quicksand. Not a normal middleathntropw
Ah, yHysbwhat uts for--to prove she won't run to them. Or tonsu?
The Suzat?
Bit ofnArwennfireshadowing?
Betrayal. Of course.
Better Enta than the movie
Mire their from thr books though
Well,mfhere Isa. Fiancé then
Is Hagan a fiture Maxgil?
Hwo are young near Barrownfowns and approaching Eregion and seeing people.marchimg on Pelargir. The geography doesntlnwork.
I guess we're getting a Galadrike.kicks butt scene.
Guess Adar remembers Galadriel. Len sila license pmentolevw sounded preetybabdass NIT gonna lie

...which roughly means:

1. Looks like we're getting more B plot
2. Opening credits music is making me think of the Music of Ainur. If you told me that the showrunners had the Ainulindalë in mind when planning the opening credits, I wouldn't say the evidence really PROVES it, but I did find myself with some half-formed thoughts about it.
3. New costumes for Elrond and Galadriel, I see
4. What river is this gorge supposed to be crossing? The two major rivers beween Lindon and Eregion are Baranduin or Gwathló.
5. Ah. Well, if they're going through the Barrow-downs, we're already across the Baranduin... but we can't have reached the Gwathló... so what?
6. JoN Now knowsnornthingsbtah the stranger<-- My attempt to make a "you know nothing, Jon Snow" joke about the Stranger.
7. Bombadil in the East?!?!?! But he is the personification of the vanishing Oxfordshire--he's a genius locii--he belongs to HIS land!!!!
8. Is Tom small enough?
9. Wait, is Old Man Willow in Rhûn too?
10. Eastern Harfeet, eh?
11. Folk of Sméagol and Déagol vibes
12. Holes are proper hobbit homes, to be sure.
13. Stoors! So my "folk of Sméagol and Déagol vibes" was actually spot on!
14. Seeing the wizard through Stoor eyes is a probably a good choice: the best way to give us "local" yet "sympathetic" eyes with which to see the East.
15. We're just getting the Bombadil chapters translated in this weird timeline, aren't we? I suppose, since they were completely excised from the movie, it's not really duplicating anything in-universe... and I could almost get on board with this just being where Tom's land is in this world... except that they have to name-drop the Withywindle. I know Tom used to wander more than he does at the time of the War of the Ring--but this is ridiculous.
16. Something being menacing while at Tom Bombadil's is wrong. "Sleep! Heed no nightly noise!" Bombadil isn't supposed to care about things beyond his land (which is where he should be!). So something feels off here.
17. Tom is a wanderer! No he isn't--he's a moss-covered stone, not a stone doomed to rolling!
18. Getting Gandalf vibes more than Saruman ones today
19. The Barrows-downs really SHOUDLN'T be the fully-menacing Barrow-downs yet: though there is some history of them in the Second Age (maybe even going back to the first), The Witch-king of Angmar (whose Ring hasn't even been forged yet), hasn't sent the Barrow-wights yet. Mushing all this together--while admittedly allowing more LotR to get "captured" into the show--removes the opportunity for a 3rd Age of any consequence: it's telescoping the timeline not just of the 2nd Age, but of all Middle-earth outside this combined story, the Hobbit/LotR, and the First Age.
20. Telling us they're wights doesn't tell us what they are if we're not already book fans--why should it mean anything in-story too? This is just an excuse to get the word "Barrow-wight" onto the screen. Something is too exposition-y here.
21. Wight blades??!?!?
22. Wild Men? Do they mean the Drúedain? Are we just making all the LotR scenes left out of the movies? (Apparently that's not what they mean, but that's where my brain went).
23. At least we aren't dragging this reveal of her secret loyalties out.
24. Quicksand? That's a trope I don't associate with Middle-earth
25. Ah, that's what this scene is for--to prove she won't run out on them.
26. The Suzat? Is that an Appendix F reference, of all things?
27. Bit of Arwen foreshadowing there, in Elrond saying that the defeat of Sauron will always come first? Because he endures forever-separation from Arwen for roughly that purpose.
28. Betrayal. Of course. Too neat, taking the manacles off and having that happen.
29. These might be better Ents than in the movie (smaller sample size and worse lighting, of course--but they're good).
30. More things stolen from the books, obviously.
31. Well, there IS a fiancé then.
32. Perhaps this Hagan will be a future Nazgûl?
33. How are Elrond's troop near the Barrow-downs and/or approaching Eregion and ALSO seeing people marching on Pelargír (they did say Pelargír, right?). The geography doesn't work.
34. I guess we're getting a Galadriel-kicks-butt scene. Not bad, as action movie scene go... certainly, it should be in-character for this world.
35. I have to admit that Elen sila lumen omentielmo sounded pretty badass as a menacing line here--not gonna lie

Overall, I found a lot to like in this episodes: much like the Movies, whenever the dialogue comes from Tolkien, it tends to beat what they come up with themselves. I like the actor portraying Tom and the fact that he's taken seriously, but I can't quite get over anything to do with geography here--for a franchise where The Map has SUCH an important value, it's amazing how little this show seems to understand it.

[Alassë Estel]

I concur, taking Tom Bombadil from his wood is just wrong.
Sure, he probably wandered a little in the older days, but living in the middle of a desert??

I really dislike this injection of Tom as a mostly irrelevant character in a mostly irrelevant plot.

Everything to do with him felt off.

And Old Man Wil-- er, I mean "Ironwood" was the biggest eye-roll moment of the episode. They don't even bother pretending that they aren't copy-pasting things from the books into their capricious plot.

I also appreciated that they didn't drag out Estrid's "betrayal" all season long.

This plot-thread with Isildur and Theo (whiny emo-child though he is) I like the most, which is ironic condsidering that it is totally original and also the least pertinent to the overall story.

The quicksand scene felt suspiciously reminiscent of that bit in the Princess Bride, and how a young human girl succeeded in pulling out two men, where a full grown elf-man failed in pulling out just one person is beyond me...but they needed a redemption bit somewhere, I suppose.

Their music really is the shining point in the series. The dwarven/Khazad-dûm theme especially is really well-fitting.