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#1 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Treading the Narrow Way
Posts: 187
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I'll get straight to the point: I am really wondering, are there yet unpublished tales, Middle Earth related or not, which we've not heard before?
There were several books published posthumously. And Christopher Tolkien edited and published some of his father's work after J.R.R.T's death, I think. But is there anything left? Do you suppose we could dare hope that we may get new material over the next decades? I am assuming someone here would certainly know. It may be a fool's hope, I fear. But it should make for a discussion, at any rate.
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#2 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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There was also an official separate book, The Nature of Middle-earth, which is a compilation of minor writings by J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Carl F. Hostetter and published in 2021 in a single book. Other than that, there is scant left that is workable at this point. Or worthwhile, for that matter. Just picking over the bones.
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#3 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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The only narrative text I know of that's unpublished is the original English of The Complaint of Mim the Dwarf. It would be about four pages long.
In non-narrative form, there's probably a bunch of linguistic stuff; I believe both Parma Eldalamberon and Vinyar Tengwar have their next issue at least theoretically in the works, and I know I've seen mention of them having a bunch of stuff to work through. They are mostly going to be short essays and wordlists though, and pretty limited in their distribution/accessibility. There's at least one substantial linguistic piece out there in the wings: the "fairly complete Taliska grammar" mentioned in HoME V, which has been with the people behind the linguistic stuff for ages uncounted. Another substantial piece of Tolkien writing I'd like to see would be the complete version of Letter 210, his response to the Zimmerman script. (I'd also like to see the script treatment itself!) And based on Galin's post in this thread, there might be an unabridged "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" somewhere. But I don't know of any significant narratives that have been hinted at but never seen. ~ I also wondered about the opposite question: what Tolkien tales are already published, either by themselves or buried somewhere in HoME? Excluding the many discarded drafts, and allowing the published Silmarillion to stand in for the latest JRR Tolkien version (I know, I know), my chronological(ish) list of the Tales of Arda runs like this:
Other than the Book of Lost Tales (which I would love to see a "reader's edition" of), and the names used in some of the stories (notably The Lost Road and the early Lay of Leithian, you can pretty much read these as a single consistent narrative. The relatively minor differences can be put down to different accounts of the same tale - clearly, whoever was writing them down didn't actually know whether Hurin took a pack of bandits and a hoarde of gold to Doriath, or went by himself with a single necklace. (There are also a fair number of non-Middle-earth tales, but I've gone on too long already. ^_^) hS
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#4 |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,352
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As Bethberry posted in another thread, Letters by Tolkien is getting a facelift and will be published soon. There are various books of Tolkien artwork which often contain analysis and comments, as well as The Road Goes Ever On, which contains a few of Tolkien's songs or poems, set to music with JRRT's approval. There are various publications that produce snippets of Tolkien's writings that are primarily linguistic or philosophical in nature but do contain nuggets. These include Parma Eldalamberon and Vinya Tengwar. There is a journal of Tolkien Studies that is primarily analytical or scholarly, but sometimes includes papers that discuss and analyze materials in the Tolkien collections of Marquette and the Bodleian (which do contain drafts that include alternative wording or versions, often rejected). One of our members, William Cloud Hicklin, recently published Chronology of the Lord of the Rings (discussed here http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=19520) based upon Tolkien's own notes. Hammond and Scull have published the Tolkien Companion and Guide, and an LoTR Reader's Guide which contain snippets of some unpublished materials. So there exist unpublished materials, mostly of interest to scholars and the obsessed (no insult to anyone intended, one man's dross is another's treasure), that find their way into the world through various vehicles.
However, if you are asking whether there are substantial unpublished Middle-Earth writings and stories that are more or less completed (as opposed to fragments, notes and memos), the answer is likely no. Most of the substantial drafts by JRRT were published in HoME.
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#5 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Treading the Narrow Way
Posts: 187
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Thank you all! I am glad for the new knowledge. It seems you all agree that there probably isn't anything else left, at least nothing whole. But perhaps bits and peices of little things.
A question I have asked myself, I think I shall ask here too. If there was some forgotten manuscript or lost notes, what would you hope they contained? My answers are: The fate of the Entwives confirmed, hopefully they would be found. The tale of Bilbo's fairy (elf? )ancestor, on the Took side. Whether or not Tom B. and Goldberry ever had children (just imagine a whole troop of blue-jacketted, yellow shod, merry mini Bombadils singing away, all through the Old Forest) Given more time, I could probably come up with many other things. Does anyone else have any?
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 |
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#6 | ||
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
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I've always been wondering about the old man who sat outside the Paths of the Dead and died after saying 'The way is shut'. But then if his story were told a mystery suggesting hidden depths would turn into just another piece of Middle-earth lore, so... better not.
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#7 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 16
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In the years, I have written down a few notes on unpublished material I am aware of (mainly a bunch of poems).
Here's a brief summary_
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#8 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Treading the Narrow Way
Posts: 187
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Thanks for the reading material, Pitchwife
![]() I really appreciate the list Val Balmer. I am going to look each one up when I have time.
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 |
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#9 | |||
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#10 | |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The best seat in the Golden Perch
Posts: 219
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#11 |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
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I agree. the Hurin/Turin tale was essentially completed in all but the details. Beren and Luthien was reworked so many times that there is ample material to read even though there is not a single detailed narrative. It is the Tuor/Fall of Gondolin/Earendil story that cries out for a full treatment that does not really exist.
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Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land. |
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#12 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 16
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I fully agree that it would be great to have a full (post-Lord of the Rings) version of The Fall of Gondolin or Earendil, but, as it was said, the probability that those exist are minimal.
On the other hand we know there is a fuller prose version of Beren and Luthien yet unpublished... I'd really like to see that first ![]() |
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#13 | |
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
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There's also the Taliska lexicon - which might just get published when my great-grandkids graduate from college...
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#14 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Not Legendarium-related, but there's also Tolkien's partial verse translation of "Beowulf". I still don't really understand why it was not included in the volume containing his prose translation.
The Tolkien Gateway has a fairly extensive list of unpublished texts by Tolkien known to exist: Index: Unpublished Material |
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#15 | |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: Treading the Narrow Way
Posts: 187
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Thanks! I'll check that right away.
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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 |
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#16 |
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 362
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From the TG link:
Concerning ... 'The Hoard' A transcription is or has been online. Not official published, though. Elvish time (partially published) Isn't this in NoMe 1 XXI Essay, written in response to seeing Pauline Baynes's depiction... Also in NoMe 2 VI, though, I think, in an edited (by CFH) form (as Tolkien was 'wrathful' in some of his commentary, see BoLT 2). Nśmenórean religion Maybe this will come in the expanded Letters later this year. Or one can hope.
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#17 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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I think you're right on both of these, though I don't have NoMe on hand at the moment. That's the danger of Wikis - updates tend to be inconsistent.
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