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#1 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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As we reach the season finale, questions will be answered and answers will be questioned.
Play by Play Thoughts: - Always appreciate a good volcano scene, but not surprising the amount of survivors. - Isildur's demise is obviously a fake out for those who know the books. - Beginning to see more signs that the Stranger is one of the Istari, or maybe they might go for a deep dive and create Tom Bombadil(I imagine the Stranger would start collecting Tom's iconic wardrobe one by one) - Out of all the locations, I have been liking the Dwarven ones the most. The Durin's have showed some good emotion and passion. - Half way through the episode and there isn't any mention of Halbrand? That seems... really weird. - We get our first Celeborn namedrop, who married her when he stumbled upon her dancing and that was the last time she saw him? I don't think that is how marriages work. Also didn't like the meaning that he is dead, but that probably means he is captured somewhere and will be rescued by Galadriel. - Okay, that one was a bit on Nori for alerting the seekers. But, I understand that she was trying to protect the Stranger. - they sure do like reusing cliches - twice they used the "that person looks like who I am looking for from a far andddd it's not them" - Weird to not have Arondir and Bronwyn show up until near the end, but i get the emotional point. But having no mention of Halbrand at all just feels the worst. Last episode ended on the "King of the Southlands" and now this is all "Remember whats-his-name? Hell-Brad?" - Heh, line callback to Boromir. - "Harfoots stick together! Except that time my family and I were left behind" - Harfoot Fellowship! - Pelargir mentioned, also first time of "Old Numenorean Settlements" I think. This might make the Southlanders as Proto-Gondorians. - And there it is, the "Oh yeah, what about Halbrand" moment. - Galadriel taking Halbrand to the elves for healing might be the Annatar introduction of Celebrimbor, if Halbrand proves to be Sauron. - Durin's Bane emerges. - Seems like Adar is doing all the work for Sauron to copy his homework. Final Thoughts: - Another choppy episode of poor writing and pacing, but glad to see things moving and developing. I have a feeling that we are only going to see the rings of power as a drawing in Celebrimbor's hands in the season finale at this point. With two episodes left (I believe) I am either expecting it to pick up, or leave it with a cliffhanger for the second season. If the latter is the case, that would make for an overall disappointing first season. Especially given that showrunners/actors have already said that we are not going to find out the true identity of the Stranger, and Sauron, this season. - For the episode itself, the timing of finding out if characters are alive or dead was really off for me and felt a bit lazy, or forgetful.
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Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Last edited by Gil-Galad; 10-07-2022 at 07:08 AM. |
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#2 |
Dead Serious
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More than a few parallels between my list of thoughts and Gil-galad's...
Overall, I think I'm more exasperated at the snowballing of annoyances now, as the season goes on, but my expectations have found the right level for the show, so this isn't resulting (yet?) in a higher level of overall dissatisfaction
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#3 | |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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It might be a reshoot that was edited in for some reason.
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Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
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#4 | |
Dead Serious
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#5 | |
Drummer in the Deep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Next Sunday A.D.
Posts: 2,126
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Oh no. Peril. Anyway.
"Trees don't talk!" "SOME do!" "the dwarves dug too greedily and too deep" for FRIENDSHIP (Hmmmm, is Disa getting a little greedy though?) "How much longer until we are clear of this smoke (that nobody at all has coughed from)" "Silver clam" ok that's a little funny. It's a good thing Elrond has enough mithril to make an elven ring or three. That'll save all the elves just in the nick of time, but not before several fakeout deaths and reveals. I'm tired of fakeout deaths and reveals. This episode was maybe the most meh of them all for me. Quote:
Aren't we all? Halbrand's arc this episode was the longest fakeout death and reveal of them all. Also when are they going to address that Bronwyn and Theo are possibly the only healers in the village? When are they going to heal anyone????
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before
I listen for returning feet and voices at the door |
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#6 | |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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And this week, we have seen her relentless bloodlust in killing orcs, then she tells Theo not to enjoy killing orcs. I feel like they are trying to show character growth, but doing it in the most asinine way, like breaking the writers Cardinal rule of "Show don't tell".
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Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
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#7 |
Laconic Loreman
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Well, my friends who don't know the lore are still enjoying the series more than I have. It seems more like a world-building season for new fans, and not a season for folks like us.
But even they have said they don't get the purpose of teasing Isildur's death. Because they are at least familiar with the movies, and know he's not going to be dead. It was a poor choice of character to try to tease being dead. That is one of the essential problems of "prequel" movies and shows. In Kenobi, we all know Obi-wan, Leia, and Vader aren't going to die, so it's kind of difficult to have drama built around convincing the fans those characters are going to die. The Kenobi characters managed to navigate around those difficulties and make a fantastic Season 1. It left me wanting a Season 2, even though I know now it will probably be disappointing, because where does the show go from there? It was already a perfect conclusion to the Obi-wan/Vader tension. Rings of Power is not making good decisions by trying to fake us with Isildur's death and Celeborn's death. Celeborn is a little more niche, but Isildur has an iconic moment that even the non-hardcore fans remember. It's just silly to try to convince us he's dead. That's all I have time for at the moment. As a Tolkien fan, Season 1 is rather dull. Episodes 3 and 4 were the strongest, but it's been regressing. I'm enjoying more my non-Tolkien friends think it's interesting and answering their questions than actually watching the series.
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Fenris Penguin
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#8 |
Drummer in the Deep
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Next Sunday A.D.
Posts: 2,126
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Who or what was the titular Eye?
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before
I listen for returning feet and voices at the door |
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#9 |
Laconic Loreman
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Miriel's blindness? Durin Sr.'s "blindness" refusing to look upon the mithril?
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#10 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Apols, can't do quotes easily on a smartphone....
....Form - it doesn't make much difference how close you are to a volcanic eruption if there's pyroclastic flow/surge, it will still kill. The other aspect of this is that the land wouldn't be permanently despoiled once the ash cloud dies down, in fact it would become very enriched soil and productive land. Either Mordor isn't a complete wasteland (and I do wonder where Orcs get food) or there are other reasons why it is. And even Orcs wouldn't be able to thrive breathing in toxic air from constant eruptions. I prefer Tolkien's hints that it's despoiled due to industry and environmental degradation. Anyway, a better episode all round. The Harfoots are definitely what save it for me, though I instinctively don't like the Oirish accents. Their culture is weird, they have seasonal habits and can't think about exploring for a new place to live/forage, they are a bit Darwinian in leaving the slow/ill behind. But there's a curiosity in some of them that makes you see where characters like Bilbo come from, breaking the rules, trying something new. The naiveté of Nori in calling the weird trio over (personally I'd run a mile from three bald giants in robes) was frustrating, she would surely have learnt by now, but I suppose that's how they created a plot shift. I hope Lenny Henry stays with this project, he's endlessly watchable, love the guy. I do not like this Mithril thing. I can see now where it's going, Celebrimbor will use that nugget to craft the Rings and heal the Elven kingdoms. Not quite what I'd hoped, having read the Osanwe Kenta and being interested in the idea of them being to aid in the Elves communicating. But OK it makes sense now. Finally. Speaking of, where is Celeborn? Durin is great. The dispute with his father and the relationship with his wife were very well written. And we heard about Dwarven women having beards! One little detail - I do like how the door to Moria is so small and unassuming. Like when you build a cave house in Minecraft and just put a tiny door on it to hide it 😂 Did that Balrog have wings? It better not have.
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#11 |
Laconic Loreman
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I feel like I could complain a lot more, but it can just be summed up by the guy shouting in Monty Python's "Holy Grail"...Get on with it!
![]() I don't mind slow burns, it's a refreshing break from the "edge of your seat" GoT shows, or even the way PJ's movies get. Where you don't really have the slower moments to breathe and reflect. I believe Verlyn Fleiger talks about this point with Tolkien, that there's a roller coaster ride. You're on the edge of your seat, at the top of the coaster, intense fast action, but you need the downtime too. You need periods of rest in Rivendell, Lothlorien, Ithilien. But at the same time, even in the rest periods, the story is still progressing. I can enjoy a slow burn, but I feel like there are more questions than there are answers at the moment. And even worse, the series is dragging out the answers in hopes that finding out the answers is irresistible. And I have to admit, it's not irresistible, because decisions to fake us out with Isildur's death is utterly pointless. I think Form mentioned it should have been Anarion, and I completely agree. I'm normally not someone who thinks I know more than professionals in their own area of expertise. But it seems common sense if you want to create tension by making us wonder if a character is alive or dead, you had a perfect choice with Anarion. He doesn't appear in the movies. In the lore he dies during the Siege of Barad-dur. Heck even just kill him off Season 1 in the Mount Doom explosion, and Elendil can still be upset about a son dying. There we go, that's an interesting death I could buy. But no, let's force a pointless "oh no, Isildur's dead" plot, what's Elendil going to do? If Season 1 doesn't end with Celebrimbor holding a hammer and forging some rings, then I will be in no hurry to watch Season 2. WCH posted a review in another thread that's basically my same thoughts. Once the glitz and glamor wears off, I spent most of Episodes 5 and 7 thinking of Monty Python and "Get on with it!"
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Fenris Penguin
Last edited by Boromir88; 10-09-2022 at 05:43 AM. |
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#12 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,357
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An abridged version of real-time commentary:
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Why must the mithril be mined just for the sake of saving the Elves? Can’t you give the Dwarves their own vices and faults, delving too deep not to save a friend but out of their own ambition? Also, that is a very literal healing with the power of mithril. “In your mother’s case, she actually does have lice in her—” …hair? Or beard? ![]() Why are Galadriel and Theo going away? They went from where everything happened, where they would have a hope of ascertaining who is alive or not, to… the opposite direction of everyone else? But still to the Numenor camp? Is this not all happening in the same village? There were literally other people alive and calling for help and Miriel and Isildur went to save the people in the burning hut and where the hell are Galadriel and Theo? This makes zero sense. Can they decide already if they wanna do the “proper Elvish pronunciation” or not? Stop switching back and forth from the more natural English-accent pronunciations to the “Elvish accent”. Is Galadriel sure she is not Luthien? ![]() The Harfoot song about how the hobbit ate his snail daughter? Again an example of how the songs are the best part about this show. Simultaneously very nursery-rhyme-ish, but also evoking the creepier elements of the Harfoot culture. Creepy shaman dudes! Why does a horse evoke more emotion than actual people? Bronwyn, you were supposed to have lost lots of blood recently. Act like it. Why will Numenor return? The whole thing was never set up properly. Why did Miriel sail so passionately to war for this Southlander nobody? Why does she care so much? Why is she so invested? Why is she still invested now? Galadriel was talking about a raft, not a horse. Where was she planning to raft to miles away from water? Or are they on the ocean shore already and just need to get to the beach? Then carry the damn dying guy with the festering wound, don’t make him ride. Seriously? You reveal the Balrog now? I mean, we knew it was coming, but, like, let’s spoil the climax before we even properly get the rising action going. “Mordor” for “dark land without sunlight” makes sense, and would have been a good twist on why it’s named that way – except again it’s an Elvish word, and while I can accept Adar’s fondness for Elvish it’s not a name that should go down all that well with Orcs.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#13 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,307
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I thought that the Rules were that Amazon could make up anything they liked to fill in the blank spaces, but couldn't contradict the published lore? Because we know, as an in-universe fact, that the Balrog wasn't awakened until TA 1980, almost 2000 years after this tale.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#14 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,357
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#15 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 362
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'Where did Tolkien say it did not happen?
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Tar-Elenion |
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#16 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,854
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Quote:
![]() We've just watched this and 8 back-to-back, so mostly I'm looking at people's posts in this thread and going "oh NO" about what they're going to/did feel when they watched the next one. Specifically to this episode, though: - Celeborn is "dead". Uh-huh sure. Not sure why Galadriel is ripping off Luthien, though it's not implausible she might have had a similar experience. (I assume Luthien pressured her into dancing; she seems the type.) - It was weird how the dealt with the dead/missing. Galadriel finds Theo, who is uninjured, and ignores the man literally on fire who they're wandering away from. Isildur rescues his buddy, and then... why was he in the house, again? I only remember seeing Miriel there with him, but she was outside before. Bronwyn and Arondir stay unmentioned for most of the episode, and King Halbrand literally only comes up when Galadriel's about to leave without saying goodbye. - The Harfeet are adorable, and the Elrond-Durin plot is on about the same level of quality. Those two strands are definitely the best of the lot. - How far away is the volcano? In Adar's closing shot, it's much further than it was from the village; has he wandered all the way past it down to Nurnen? Actually in general the geography is strange - everything seems to be (very pretty) mountains, when there really should be plains in some of these plotlines. hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#17 | |||
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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We watched this together with the finale, so more thoughts on that thread...
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#18 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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I've actually seen some young'uns say they've never seen the PJ movies. I would guess this adaptation is for them, but I'm not sure how common that lack of experience is.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#19 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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That is, in fact, the most important question of all.
The episode, overall, had some pretty much better moments than the previous ones. There is still too much of slow-motion shots (seriously) and some clumsy buildups (or rather lack of buildups, see below). I liked the resurfacing themes of friendship between the Dwarves and Elrond, and maybe I watched too much Game of Thrones-type stuff that my immediate association was that Durin was next going to poison Durin, but thankfully, I think (I hope) this won't happen. Those characters are interesting and the dynamic between Durin and Durin was nice, or it would be, if it weren't for the abovementioned lack of buildup. This show has these random mood swings with characters: one episode Durin Sr. has a conflict with his son, then it seems to get settled, but later they have a conflict again, and it is more like a back-and-forth random swinging rather than some linear development. The whole "and you always criticised me too harshly, father" came out of the blue; I would have liked to see it actually first showed on some subtle hints throughout the series, but it simply was not there. And that is what relationships and decisions are like in this whole show (another example being e.g. in one of the previous episodes Bronwyn being all the time "we must fight, we must resist, who is with me" and suddenly she was the one who was "oh, we must surrender to the Orcs". And again: you can have the hero lapsing like that, but it needs to have some buildup to that!). Otherwise: Míriel's blindness is a nice touch, I wonder what will come out of it. Probably Pharazon claiming that she's unfit to rule, or more subtly, taking upon his shoulders the burden of responsibility, since she clearly cannot manage alone... Bronwyn is back to her spaghetti top, unfortunately, again. But then she gets the red cloak so I kinda hope that she keeps it. (Sidenote: clearly the red cloak is made of the same cloth as Míriel's blindfold in the same scene. Probably the Númenoreans just had an excess red canvas lying around somewhere.) I enjoyed Galadriel's brief trek with Theo, even though not so impressed by the referrence of hiding under the roots a la from Black Rider. Even though again (Legate 180!)... if Theo actually becomes Khamul, he gets bested by his own trick... that would be fun! A tribe of Harfeet sending their only sage with a couple of Merrys and Pippins does not seem very wise to me. And Evil Barliman lives! I hope he continues to thrive. Oh, will he become a double-traitor next time, since he originally wanted to serve Sauron, when the real Sauron comes? We facepalmed with Lommy at the end title with "Mordor". I was like "Adar's gonna say 'Mordor'" but when he didn't, I thought "whoa, they don't treat the audience like dumbsters who need spoon-feeding every information (that has been clear for at least four episodes to everyone, or at the least two to very very dumb people)", but clearly I was mistaken. To be honest it feels as if the title was added by some post-production nitpicker title-maker who does think that the audience needs spoon-feeding.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#20 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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I actually believe that this adaptation is for those who have seen PJ, because they work as a prequel to PJ's LotR much more than as prequel to actual Tolkien. Thinking of all the contradictions to canon etc (and I mean just the contradictions in the actual part of the canon the showmakers had access to!), I think that this show would work the best for those who have seen PJ but haven't read the books, not even the appendices.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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rings of power, rop |
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