LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 08 - The Houses of Healing

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This is one of my favourite chapters! It’s full of emotional highlights, with both touching and humorous moments. Though fighting continues, we are taken away from the battle scene to the aftermath, the necessary process of healing for those who have been severely hurt, more than just injured. We follow Gandalf, who no longer takes an active part in the battle – that alone shows us how important the persons of whom he takes care are!

Though the readers begin the chapter accompanying Merry from his point of view, we soon lose his eyes when he succumbs to his ailment. After that, the narrator follows various characters, until the threads of the tale come together in the Houses of Healing.

The usually cheerful Merry is greatly changed, seeing the city as his tomb and wondering if Pippin is taking him to be buried. Instead, Gandalf himself comes in search of him, a sign of the honour Merry deserves, which Gandalf also puts into words.

We readers are primarily interested in the fates of the three patients important and known to us, though there are many in the Houses of Healing. I find it interesting that the loss of healing ability and knowledge in Gondor is mentioned especially in connection with old age, touching on the issue previously mentioned. It is also interesting that Gandalf is relatively helpless here, lacking the ability to heal the patients – should we have expected him to be able to do that?

Instead, Aragorn is the one who brings healing. His humility is shown when he refuses to enter the city without legitimation. For all he knows, Denethor is still alive, and Imrahil shares his sceptical attitude toward the Steward’s willingness to accept his authority. We see that the future King has learned the lesson he was taught at the Golden Hall – no arrogance, even though he be in the right! Pippin later mentions the similarity between Aragorn and Gandalf, and it shows once when he (at that moment yet unknown) enters the city clad in inconspicuous grey.

One of my favourite minor characters, and one of the few women introduced in the story by name and with conversation, is Ioreth. It’s interesting that she and the herb-master provide the occasion for some humour, a rare occurrence outside of the Shire. Though she is shown as talkative, garrulous even, she is also the repository of wisdom and important to the healing process with her knowledge of old wives’ tales. This is where Celeborn’s prediction comes true! She is practical and cares for her charges, and even plays a pivotal role in the acceptance of Aragorn as king by the people of the city, since she spreads the story of the healings.

Aragorn and Gandalf have all of the good, humorous lines, showing their wit – gently mocking without being spiteful. I love the dry fun of lines such as:

One thing is also short, time for speech.
…run as quick as your tongue…
…she shall take me to the woods, but not to her sisters.
…I care not whether you say asëa aranion or kingsfoil, so long as you have some.
…go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!

…and Aragorn’s banter with Merry after healing him.

Another minor character, Bergil, plays a small but pivotal role in bringing the athelas to Aragorn. Interestingly, a good deal of the healing precedes the use of the herb – Aragorn touches the patients and appears to struggle internally to call them back. What do you think of the various steps in the healing process? Did you notice that there are slight variations in his treatment of the three? Let’s discuss the differing reactions of each as well; Éowyn’s healing is especially interesting due to the conversations carried on about her. Aragorn also leaves different instructions for the convalescence of each.

There are so many wonderful, quotable lines in this chapter; I’d like to mention my absolute favourite:

His grief he will not forget; but it will not darken his heart, it will teach him wisdom.

Which is your favourite line?

One more detail in this already lengthy introduction (pardon my enthusiasm – there’s still plenty left for all of you to discuss!!) – Aragorn chooses yet another name, or rather ennobles a nickname by making it into the name of his house. “Strider” becomes “Telcontar”. I’ve mentioned my opinion on the significance of this choice on the thread about “wandering” – what do you think is important about it? (And no, it’s not just because of my nick connection that I find this interesting….)

And so the chapter ends, with the return of the King, though yet in secret and in service to his people.

[davem]

The first thing that struck me on re-reading this chapter is that it is the culmination of Merry’s story. He began as, in many ways, the leader of the expedition, he organised everything, he wanted to go on an adventure & see the world. Over the course fo the story he goes through many experiences which change him. When he emerges from the Barrow he has had a strange dream where it seems he entered the mind of one of the Arnorien warriors slain by the men of Carn Dum. He is drawn to follow the Black Riders in Bree, he swears his oath of alllegiance to Theoden. He has come face to face with a larger world & felt the oppressive weight of it:

Merry looked out in wonder upon this strange country, of which he had heard many tales upon their long road. It was a skyless world, in which his eye, through dim gulfs of shadowy air, saw only ever-mounting slopes, great walls of stone behind great walls, and frowning precipices wreathed with mist. He sat for a moment half dreaming, listening to the noise of water, the whisper of dark trees, the crack of stone, and the vast waiting silence that brooded behind all sound. He loved mountains, or he had loved the thought of them marching on the edge of stories brought from far away; but now he was borne down by the insupportable weight of Middle-earth. He longed to shut out the immensity in a quiet room by a fire.

He has faced the most terrible foe imaginable & found his courage. Then, after all that, he, symbollically at least, ‘dies’. He even asks Pippin if he has come to ‘bury’ him. In the Houses of Healing he is ‘called back’ by Aragorn, & on awakening he is changed - all his experiences have made him someone different. He no longer thinks of high adventure, Middle-earth is no longer a fantasy playground for him:

We Tooks and Brandybucks, we can't live long on the heights.'
'No,' said Merry. 'I can't. Not yet, at any rate. But at least, Pippin, we can now see them, and honour them. It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I suppose: you must start somewhere and have some roots, and the soil of the Shire is deep.

‘It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, I supppose’. That sums up Merry’s realisation, his insight gained after alll his adventures. It echoes the words of Bilbo at the end of The Hobbit, & Smith’s at the end of SoWM. But its not the whole story: ‘Still there are things deeper and higher; and not a gaffer could tend his garden in what he calls peace but for them, whether he knows about them or not. I am glad that I know about them, a little.’ In Jungian terms Merry has achieved Individuation. He has grown up & is ready to go home. I think that’s why he has no need to go to the Black Gate - as Pippin does. If Gandalf is correct that the returning Hobbits will not need him too help them save the Shire, because they have been ‘trained’ I think Merry’s words here sum up the nature of that ‘training’ - not training in arms or strategy, but in ‘humanity’. They have all ‘grown up’ by the end of the story, & in many ways Merry is the first one to do that. The Merry we meet at the beginning of the story is not the one we encounter in the Houses of Healing. He has met, faced down & survived horror, grief & death & awoken to a new life. As Aragorn says of him: ‘His grief he will not forget; but it will not darken his heart, it will teach him wisdom.'

The Athelas is a subject worth returning to. It seems to have more than natural healing power. The words used to describe its effect are odd:

For the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in Spring is itself but a fleeting memory.

It s effect is to arouse the memory of a memory of some place not of this world. The memory of this fair world in spring is merely the ‘memory’ of some other place - perhaps somewhere beyond the Circles of the World - but then why refer to that place in terms of something remembered?

Aragorn humbles himself to go unknown into his city. He could have rode in in triumph, but he goes as a simple Ranger on a mission to heal the sick. It is this aspect of Aragorn’s character which I think draws us to him in a far more powerful & deeper way than to the confused & self doubting movie-Aragorn. Book Aragorn knows & accepts his responsibility to his people & puts them first in everything. He will accept suffering, abuse, mockery & condemnation on their behalf. He will put aside his ‘glory’ out of love for his people (& if anyone wants to find ‘applicability’ in that I won’t argue with them.

Faramir recognises his king immediately on awakening & offers his service to him. ‘Logically’ this is not possible, but for some reason we accept it, because it seems right. Faramir is the last of a House of Stewards who have been (with some notable exceptions) awaiting the return of the King. Faramir has been rewarded for his long wait, for the sacrifices he has made. His service, albeit in love, to a false ‘king’ is now to be given to the true King. Like Sam later, all Faramir’s dreams have come true on his awakening.

Eowyn’s awakening is different - it is as if she will not allow herself to hope & be happy - when she first comes around she seems to have left behind her despair:

'That is grievous,' she said. 'And yet it is good beyond all that I dared hope in the dark days, when it seemed that the House of Eorl was sunk in honour less than any shepherd's cot. And what of the king's esquire, the Halfling? Eomer, you shall make him a knight of the Riddermark, for he is valiant!'

‘It is good beyond all hope’, ‘Merry shall be made a knight’, from these first words we could get the impression that Eowyn has found hope & joy in her awakening as did Faramir, but then she is ‘reminded’ by Gandalf’s words that she wants to die & slips back into her old ways of thinking. Its as if she had originally forgot to be depressed & had to be reminded of it.

Aragorn goes on to heal others. He labours all through the night to the point of exhaustion. Again we are shown a king who puts his people first & seeks no honour or reward for it. He doesn’t even seek recognition. In order to avoid any kind of risk of confusion & upheaveal that his open presence might engender he removes all signs of his presence:

And when he could labour no more, he cast his cloak about him, and slipped out of the City, and went to his tent just ere dawn and slept for a little. And in the morning the banner of Dol Amroth, a white ship like a swan upon blue water, floated from the Tower, and men looked up and wondered if the coming of the King had been but a dream.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Esty

Did you notice that there are slight variations in his treatment of the three?

Originally Posted by davem

The Athelas is a subject worth returning to. It seems to have more than natural healing power. The words used to describe its effect are odd

The effects of the Athelas differ according to who is receiving the treatment:

Then taking two leaves, he laid them on his hands and breathed on them, and then he crushed them, and straightway a living freshness filled the room, as if the air itself awoke and tingled, sparkling with joy. And then he cast the leaves into the bowls of steaming water that were brought to him, and at once all hearts were lightened. For the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in Spring is itself but a fleeting memory. But Aragorn stood up as one refreshed, and his eyes smiled as he held a bowl before Faramir's dreaming face.

Then, whether Aragorn had indeed some forgotten power of Westernesse, or whether it was but his words of the Lady Eowyn that wrought on them, as the sweet influence of the herb stole about the chamber it seemed to those who stood by that a keen wind blew through the window, and it bore no scent, but was an air wholly fresh and clean and young, as if it had not before been breathed by any living thing and came new-made from snowy mountains high beneath a dome of stars, or from shores of silver far away washed by seas of foam.

Then Aragorn laid his hand on Merry's head, and passing his hand gently through the brown curls, he touched the eyelids, and called him by name. And when the fragrance of athelas stole through the room, like the scent of orchards, and of heather in the sunshine full of bees, suddenly Merry awoke, and he said:
'I am hungry. What is the time?'

I wonder if the effects of the Athelas on each are a reflection of the personality of each character? For Eowyn the fragrance is what might be called an 'ozone' scent, almost like pure air but with a faint hint of snow or the sea; it reflects her youth and possibly her vitality. For Merry the scent is of things reminiscent of food strangely enough, and he immediately wakes and mentions his hunger! The scent for Faramir is more enigmatic however. The words used to describe it are quite elegiac; are they meant to reflect Faramir's experience in the harsh world?

The effects of the Athelas may reflect the characters' personalities, but maybe they reflect what Aragorn thinks of each person? Or is he using the Athelas in such a way as to evoke feelings in each patient that they will particularly respond to? Aragorn must know Merry the best out of all the three patients and perhaps the fact that Merry awakens so quickly and fully reflects this? In any case, however the scents are evoked, I think that it might be worth thinking about what the words for each character really do mean.

The Elessar is mentioned several times in this chapter and it brought to my mind where it originally came from and what purpose it had. It was made for Galadriel and I think that it had some purpose in the slowing of time in Lothlorien for the preservation of her realm. In UT there is some background about the creation of the Elessar, its use and its eventual fate:

"What would you have then?" said Celebrimbor

"I would have trees and grass about me that do not die - here in the land that is mine," she answered. "What has become of the skill of the Eldar?" And Celebrimbor said "Where now is the stone of Earendil? And Enerdhil who made it is gone."
"They have passed over sea," said Galadriel, "With almost all fair things else. But must then Middle Earth fade and perish for ever?"

"That is its fate I deem," said Celebrimbor. "But you know that I love you (though you turn to Celeborn of the trees), and for that love I will do what I can, if happily by my art your grief can be lessened."

Wielding the Elessar all things grew fair about Galadriel, until the coming of the shadow to the forest. But afterwards when Nenya, her chief of the three was sent her by Celebrimbor, she needed it (as she thought) no more, and she gave it to Celebrian her daughter, and so it came to Arwen and to Aragorn who was called Elessar.

I think that it is clear that the Elessar was important in preserving Lothlorien, and the text says that Galadriel wielded it, suggesting that she had to make or will it to work in some way. She also gives it up when she receives Nenya, so I presume that it must have had similar powers but was less powerful/potent or else she would not have passed it on. For many years it must have been held in Elrond's house, and he was renowned as a healer himself (and as an aside, maybe Aragorn taking the Elessar from Rivendell hastened the decline of that realm too, shadowing his 'taking' of Arwen from there).

Maybe the Elessar did indeed have healing powers? When Aragorn appears at Gandalf's side it is noteworthy that he bears 'no other token than the green stone of Galadriel'; when he is done healing he leaves Minas Tirith and he casts 'his cloak about him', as though to cover the Elessar once more. Why would Arwen wish to give Aragorn such a gift? And why would she have Galadriel pass it on for her? It is certainly a splendid love token, but Arwen must have known how it could be used.

Then Gandalf went out in haste, and already the fire in the sky was burning out, and the smouldering hills were fading, while ash-grey evening crept over the fields.

Finally I have to mention this line as it is worded perfectly - the fires of the battlefield are dying out and in this image Tolkien uses the words which describe a dying fire: from flames there are then embers, and these finally burn away to nothing but ash.

[drigel]

Concerning the Ellesar: The impression I always had from LOTR was that this was a symbolic peice in nature. In other words, it didnt have any intrinsic power, per say. It's wonderfull history was never even hinted at really in LOTR. I wonder if the author intentionally left it out, so as not to infer that the healing came through it's use, and as a result, put more emphasis on to Aragorn. Still, some of the historical patina of the Elessar could have been diplayed without taking away from Aragorns role in this chapter. But, as far as mortals go, it really was just a piece of elvish glass if your werent a king.

I love the rare instances of humor that occur in this chapter as well! I also see some of Gandalf's stress showing. He goes from high praise:

: 'Men may long remember your words, Ioreth! For there is hope in them. Maybe a king has indeed returned to Gondor; or have you not heard the strange tidings that have come to the City?'

. Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.'

to high scolding:

'Then in the name of the king, go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!' cried Gandalf.

I will add on to Lal's nice analysis of the 3 different aspects of Athelas in the individuals by the observation of their first words:

Faramir

'My lord, you called me. I come. What does the king command?'

Eowyn

'I am strangely weary,' she said. 'I must rest a little. But tell me, what of the Lord of the Mark?

Merry

'I am hungry. What is the time?'

Conclusion: Supper-Time - King of Hobbits

And finally, a quote from Aragorn:

'I know that well, or I would not deal with you in the same way,' said Aragorn. 'May the Shire live forever unwithered!'

Given a few thousand years of dark time, I would say his prophesy came true, at least in my mind.

edit here for 2 items:

Gandalf:

. 'For,' he said, 'long have I stood by them, and at first they spoke much in their dreaming, before they sank into the deadly darkness. Also it is given to me to see many things far off.'

Again a reference to the sight (or Sight)

Aragorn:

. But it is my counsel that Gandalf should rule us all in the days that follow and in our dealings with the Enemy.' And they agreed upon that.

No question on authority here (as was debated on before)

[davem]

'Indeed we have heard of Fangorn in Minas Tirith,' said Boromir. 'But what I have heard seems to me for the most part old wives' tales, such as we tell to our children. All that lies north of Rohan is now to us so far away that fancy can wander freely there. Of old Fangorn lay upon the borders of our realm; but it is now many lives of men since any of us visited it, to prove or disprove the legends that have come down from distant years.'...Then I need say no more,' said Celeborn. 'But do not despise the lore that has come down from distant years; for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know

This comment of Celeborn’s has been mentioned by Esty & its an interesting point. ‘Old wives’ tales’ seem to be respected as a source of wisdom even by the Elves. To them seems to be attributed the retention of old wisdom, lost to the ‘wise’. In this chapter it is Ioreth who comes out with the old tradition of the ‘Hands of the king’ being the hands of a healer, which even the learned loremasters & healers of Gondor have forgotten. One can only assume that it was not included in their lorebooks, & so they had never heard of it. There is a distinction made between ‘old lore’ in which Ioreth is learned, & ‘book learning’ in which the Master of the Houses of Healing has been ‘educated’.

And she said: 'Alas! if he should die. Would that there were kings in Gondor, as there were once upon a time, they say! For it is said in old lore: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer. And so the rightful king could ever be known.'

]

It is the ‘addendum’ here - ‘And so the rightful king could ever be known’ which is of particular interest - its not only the fact that the rightful king could heal, but the fact that his healing skills were one (perhaps the) way that the rightful king could be known. This ‘old lore’ does away with all the ‘politics’ & determines the ‘rightful king’ by what he can do. It seems that the ordinary people are less interested in heredity & inheritance, & mostly concerned with practicalities - can the king do his job? Can he care for his people? This sets up the standards & requirements of the ‘ordinary’ folk against those of their ‘lords & masters. Denethor is only interested in Aragorn’s legal claim to the throne. Because he finds that claim ‘unsubstantiated’ (he comes ‘merely’ of the House of Isildur) he will not surrender to him. Ioreth bases her judgement of Aragorn on whether he can do the job. Aragorn fulfils the people criteria - he heals the sick - so he is the ‘rightful king’.

Gandalf appeals to this:

'Men may long remember your words, Ioreth! For there is hope in them. Maybe a king has indeed returned to Gondor;

He does say ‘Men may long remember your words’ because even he cannot guarantee that these ‘old wives tales’ will survive, but Aragorn’s appearance, ‘predicted’ by Ioreth’s words may help to awaken the people - even the learned lore masters - to the folk wisdom that still survives. Certainly Ioreth proves more useful than the Master of the Houses in this instance. He’s certainly a highly educated man. He can tell you all the names of Athelas in all the languages of Middle earth - he just can’t tell you what its for. Actually he tells you its pretty useless. At least Ioreth sees some virtue in the plant - though she seems less than impressed with it:

"kingsfoil", I said, "'tis a strange name, and I wonder why 'tis called so; for if I were a king, I would have plants more bright in my garden". Still it smells sweet when bruised, does it not? If sweet is the right word: wholesome, maybe, is nearer.'

In comes the Master:

'Your pardon lord!' said the man. 'I see you are a loremaster, not merely a captain of war. But alas! sir, we do not keep this thing in the Houses of Healing, where only the gravely hurt or sick are tended. For it has no virtue that we know of, save perhaps to sweeten a fouled air, or to drive away some passing heaviness. Unless, of course, you give heed to rhymes of old days which women such as our good Ioreth still repeat without understanding.
When the black breath blows
and death's shadow grows
and all lights pass,
come athelas! come athelas!
Life to the dying
In the king's hand lying!
It is but a doggerel, I fear, garbled in the memory of old wives. Its meaning I leave to your judgement, if indeed it has any. But old folk still use an infusion of the herb for headaches.'
'Then in the name of the king, go and find some old man of less lore and more wisdom who keeps some in his house!' cried Gandalf.

His dismissal of the ‘doggeral’ rhyme is also interesting. We know that ‘old wives’ & helalers of the past did not simply make use of herbs in healing by applying them in some way but that there was often a rhyme or chant involved (see Carmichael’s Carmina Gadelica, or The Nine Herbs Charm). Interestingly, in the Radio series Aragorn recites this rhyme as he crushes & scatters the leaves on the water. The fact is, the rhyme has not been ‘garbled’ at all & its survival is a tribute to folk memory. The ordinary folk tended to be unlettered & so had better memories as all information had to be memorised if it wasn’t to be lost. Because of this only really important & useful information was retained. ‘Old wives tales’, rather than being useless nonsense was actually of the greatest value - much more valuable in practical terms than what could be found in books, because once written down it could be forgotten. Again, we see that the ordinary folk, rather than being ‘ignorant’ folk with heads full of ‘superstitious nonsense’ are actually the practical ones. I think this was Celeborn’s point - ‘’for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know.’ In this case an ‘old wife’ knows that it is the hands of the king that are needed to effect a cure of the sick. The Master (& Boromir we may assume) would have dismissed Ioreth’s words as ‘unscientific’ in modern terms, nonesense, doggerel, etc.

I’m reminded of the line from John Crowley’s Aegypt: ‘There is more than one history of the world’. There is a ‘history’, a wisdom, Traditions, which are dismissed as ignorant & worthless, needing to be ‘stamped out’. Gandalf, Aragorn & Celeborn (& Tolkien himself, one assumes) knew different.

[Alphaelin]

Two things stand out in this chapter for me. One is Aragorn's healing ability, which I see others also find interesting, and the other is the reunion of Merry and Pippin, and a demonstration of "unquenchable" hobbit-nature.

The chapter opens with the same atmosphere of battle-weariness which closed Chapter 7, personified in Merry. He is tired, lost and ill from the Black Breath; wandering in a sort of fog until Pippin finds him. It is touching when Pip takes charge of Merry here.

"Are you going to bury me?" said Merry.

"No, indeed!" said Pippin, trying to sound cheerful, though his heart was wrung with fear and pity. "No, we are going to the Houses of Healing."

Once Merry gets to the HoH, Pippin seems to regain his composure enough to greet Aragorn quite "unquenchably".

"Strider! How splendid! Do you know, I thought it was you in the black ships. But they were all shouting corsairs and wouldn't listen to me. How did you do it?"

Merry, when he wakes up, shows that he is a true hobbit by instantly demanding food, and he and Pip immediatly start discussing the possiblity of getting supper. One can only wonder what Aragorn might be thinking at this point. ('Food! Do they every think of *anything else*?' or perhaps 'Thank the Valar, he's asking for food. He's back to normal.') From his 'scolding' of Merry for losing his backpack on the field, it is probably close to the latter. This of course gives Pippin another chance at for a great line:

"My dear ***, your pack is lying by your bed, and you had it on your back when I met you. He saw it all the time, of course."

This is an interesting transition speech, for the last line sets up Merry's thoughtful remarks, quoted by Davem in his first post on this thread.

Dear me! We Tooks and Brandybucks, we can't live long on the heights."

[Merry] "But at least, Pippin, we can see them and honour them...

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

‘Old wives’ tales’ seem to be respected as a source of wisdom even by the Elves. To them seems to be attributed the retention of old wisdom, lost to the ‘wise’.

This links back to the discussion earlier in the week about myth and folklore and England on the Adoption thread. As I said there, Tolkien did not make great use of English folktales, certainly not as much use as other writers have, instead creating a world of his own imaginings (boiled in stew of many ingredients ). Even so he stated he wanted to create a 'mythology' for England - folktales and mythologies are different; the former informal and the latter structured. This can mean that the folktale, almost always orally transmitted, is easily lost, while the mythology lends itself more readily to printing and publication.

Anyway, getting back to the point, it is clear that Tolkien created something new rather than attempt to 'preserve' old English folktales when he created his works and he does make reference to his antipathy of simply collecting old folktales in 'On Fairy Stories'. Here he has his characters display great respect for old folktales and find truth in them as repositories of old wisdom, which is interesting as it seems to conflict somewhat with his own view.

But here I think he is showing how the old tales should not merely be treated as simple stories, but that there may be truths in them, hidden histories maybe?

[Bêthberry]

While I think this is indeed a fascinating chapter, bringing some much needed relief from the intensity of the battle scenes, what I wonder about is Tolkien's sweetly gentle humour for Merry and even Ioreth but not for others.

This is a roundabout way of considering why it is so many of us hold the hobbits so dear. Why is the humour right here for Merry? What would change if Tolkien employed humour to Faramir's situation or to Eowyn's?

It's appropriate for Ioreth and also for Merry. Does humour of this sort imply something gentle, friendly, some bond which dissipates the normal distance between readers and other characters? Is it appropriate for characters who are modest, humble, 'lower' than others on the social or the narrative scale?

And the humour is neither biting nor cutting. Neither Merry nor Ioreth are cruelly mocked here. (Is mocking reserved for those who strike too close a tone with us?)

So, is it this kind of humour one of the ways Tolkien comes to endear the hobbits to us? Among their many other admirable traits of course. Does humour create distance or does it level distance?

I'm just so full of questions tonight, sorry.

[davem]

Signs & Wonders

Now as the sun went down Aragorn and Eomer and Imrahil drew near the City with their captains and knights; and when they came before the Gate Aragorn said:'Behold the Sun setting in a great fire! It is a sign of the end and fall of many things, and a change in the tides of the world.

Then hope unlooked-for came so suddenly to Eomer's heart, and with it the bite of care and fear renewed, that he said no more, but turned and went swiftly from the hall; and the Prince followed him. And when they came forth evening had fallen and many stars were in the sky.......And Gandalf answered: ....for Denethor has departed, and his house is in ashes.' And they were filled with grief and wonder at the tale that he told.
But Imrahil said: 'So victory is shorn of gladness, and it is bitter bought....

These lines struck me - it is as if the natural world is reflecting the mood of the human participants in this 'cosmic' drama. Or even more - it is as if Eru's creation is also a participant. We see this so often in the story that we can take it for granted, but nature acts. The Sun 'sets in a great fire' & this is a sign of the fall of many things, and a change in the tides of the world' - note, Aragorn doesn't simply take heart from his sight of the sunset, he declares it to be a clear sign - but a sign sent by whom? When Eomer hears the news that his sister is not dead as he thought, but still living he sees 'many stars in the sky'. Again, given the symbolism of stars & starlight throughout the story, this also seems like a sign, a participation of the natural world in events.

Earlier in the story Legolas declared that a red sunrise was a sign that blood had been spilled in the night (the attack of the Rohirrim on the Uruks on the edge of Fangorn. Caradhras & Old Man Willow attack members of the Fellowship, a wind from the West drives back the darkness created by Sauron & dissipates the shades of Saruman & Sauron. The land of Hollin 'remembers the Elves who once dwelt there'.Nature is both 'active' in the form of aiding or thwarting individuals & 'passive' in the sense of providing 'signs', but it is always present, always a participant.

From this point of view Middle earth is also a character in the story, not simply a 'backdrop'. I can't help thinking that this may be linked to the statement in The Sil that Eru sent the Secret Fire to dwell in the heart of the earth. It seems that Middle earth is 'alive' in a real sense - though admittedly not always on the side of 'Good'.

I think it is this ambiguity which makes Middle earth seem a 'real' place to us, & causes the place to 'live' as a setting for everything from fan fic to computer games. We are drawn to Middle earth as a place in its own right, beyond the events & characters of the story. Its not simply, as with other stories, that we identify with the characters, or would like to meet them - we would like to go to Middle earth, even if the people of the story have gone. It is a world that we form an emotional 'connection' with because of the way it behaves.

Finally, its interesting that Imrahil starts off believing that Denethor is alive, & Eomer that Eowyn is dead & then their situations are reversed. Imrahil begins in hope & ends in grief, vice versa for Eomer.

The Black Shadow

But now their art and knowledge were baffled; for there were many sick of a malady that would not be healed; and they called it the Black Shadow, for it came from the Nazgul. And those who were stricken with it fell slowly into an ever deeper dream, and then passed to silence and a deadly cold, and so died.

I'm not sure whether this 'Black Shadow' is the same as the 'Black Breath'. Certainly the effect of the Black Breath on Merry at Bree doesn't seem as overwhelming. The Black Shadow certainly has its origin in the Nazgul in the same way as the Black Breath, but it seems that without the healing skills of Aragorn the Black Breath is not curable. It is something like 'plague', like the Black Death which devastated Europe in the Middle Ages. It seems to affect the body as much as the spirit, & Aragorn's healing seems to work on two levels - he calls the victim back (soul/spirit) & uses the Athelas (body). Whatever it is, it seems it is both a symbol of the overwhelming despair suffered by the enemies of Sauron and a physical weapon of war.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

Nature is both 'active' in the form of aiding or thwarting individuals & 'passive' in the sense of providing 'signs', but it is always present, always a participant.

From this point of view Middle earth is also a character in the story, not simply a 'backdrop'. I can't help thinking that this may be linked to the statement in The Sil that Eru sent the Secret Fire to dwell in the heart of the earth. It seems that Middle earth is 'alive' in a real sense - though admittedly not always on the side of 'Good'.

I think one of the most common feelings expressed by readers is how 'alive' the landscape of Middle-earth is to them. I don't know whether the environmental message which was commonly gained from the story is as widely held today as it used to be, but I certainly still get that message strongly. One of the ways it comes through in the story is how holistic this world is - actions are shown to have reactions, such as what results of Saruman's activity, and as such the model of Middle-earth is very close to our own world where a small change can have large consequences.

Whichever way we read, if we see this message or do not, then it can't be denied that the landscape itself plays an enormous role in our appreciation of Tolkien's work. There are several writers who do make incredible use of landscape, almost to the point of characterising it, including Thomas Hardy and Emily Bronte; while they use landscape as a setting for stories and to echo characters (see how the landscape changes with the changing fortunes of Tess Durbeyfield), Tolkien made the change in the landscape part of the story in itself.

This is why I like the idea that the Secret Fire lives at the heart of the earth. It is as though this is the force around which life in this secondary world revolves, it drives it, and it also creates consequences. In our world it seems to be the skies which drive nature, whereas in Tokien it is the Earth itself.

[Alphaelin]

Good catch, Davem
:

I'm not sure whether this 'Black Shadow' is the same as the 'Black Breath'. Certainly the effect of the Black Breath on Merry at Bree doesn't seem as overwhelming. The Black Shadow certainly has its origin in the Nazgul in the same way as the Black Breath, but it seems that without the healing skills of Aragorn the Black Breath is not curable. It is something like 'plague', like the Black Death which devastated Europe in the Middle Ages. It seems to affect the body as much as the spirit, & Aragorn's healing seems to work on two levels - he calls the victim back (soul/spirit) & uses the Athelas (body). Whatever it is, it seems it is both a symbol of the overwhelming despair suffered by the enemies of Sauron and a physical weapon of war.

You are quite right, of course. <bows to Davem> The Black Breath and the Black Shadow are related but not the same, and I should have been more accurate when describing Merry's malady. Perhaps the Black Shadow is more severe because it involves actually coming into contact with a Nazgul? Merry and Eowyn were fighting the thing this time, whereas before, Merry was in the presence of the Nazgul, but unaware of it. However the impression from your words are that it could be a weapon controlled consciously by the Nazgul, which is also intriguing. (Although I keep getting a Bad Mental Picture of the Witch King telling the rest of the Nazgul "Put your breath on 'kill'.")

Which brings to mind Tolkien's description of the healing process in this chapter for both the Black Shadow and Faramir's fever, and how much it seems to depend on the touch of Aragorn's hand. Human touch is surprisingly powerful. It can help ease both physical and emotional pain (both of which are affecting Faramir, Eowyn and Merry).

Although I enjoyed the comments of Lalwende regarding the Elessar, I think the idea was that Aragorn himself was the main source of healing, not the stone, or the athelas. Ioreth says "The hands of the king are the hands of a healer." And see how much Aragorn's healing involves the sense of touch.

Now Aragorn knelt beside Faramir, and held a hand upon his brow. And those that watched felt that some great struggle was going on. For Aragorn's face grew grey with weariness; and ever and anon he called the mane of Faramir, but each time more faintly to their hearing, as if Aragorn himself was removed from them, and walked afar in some dark vale, calling for one that was lost.

But he bent and kissed her on the brow, and called her softly, saying: "Eowyn Eomund's daughter, awake! For your enemy has passed away!" She did not stir, but now she began again to breathe deeply. so that her breast rose and fell beneath the white linen of the sheet. Once more Aragorn bruised two leaves of athelas and cast them into steaming water; and he laved her brow with it, and her right arm lying cold and nerveless on the coverlet...."Awake, Eowyn, Lady of Rohan!" said Aragorn again, and he took her right hand in his and felt it warm with life returning.

Then Aragorn laid his hand on Merry's head, and passing his hand gently through the brown curls, he touched his eyelids, and called him by name.

While the Elessar might have augmented Aragorn's healing ability, the focus in these passages are on Aragorn using his own voice and hands to bring his patients back. These passages bring up a lot of contemporary ideas: The belief of some Christians in the 'laying on of hands' to heal, interest among medical practicioners in 'theraputic touch' in helping sufferers combat chronic or long-term diseases, even metaphysical claims that human touch can transmit energy between two people.

He uses the athelas as a medicinal plant, probably because having grown up in Rivendell in the care of Elrond, a master of lore and healing, he would have learned the properties of the plant, whereas in the rest of Middle Earth, where the old knowledge had faded away, it was only preserved in the equivalent of nursery rhymes (the Chief Warden's piece of 'doggerel' always reminds me of 'Ring Around the Rosy' and its association with the Black Death). In the eyes of Ioreth, and even the Chief Warden, seeing this "weed" used to heal such severe illness might have seemed like an amazing demonstration of supernatural power on Aragorn's part.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Hmm. I formerly thought that each individual smelled in the athelas what was appropriate for them, but then again the others smelled it too. And how could that be? (And one wonders if all would share Ioreth’s thought that it was a ‘wholesome’ fragrance.) It seemly likely that Aragorn must have been some special skill such as directing a specific scent, or else kingsfoil would have been used for more than headaches in Gondor! And I suspect that that specific talent was considerably less common than finding a store of athelas in the city!

Frodo has been touched by the weapons of the Enemy,’ said Strider, ‘and there is some poison or evil at work that is beyond my skill to drive out. But do not give up hope Sam!”

This whole subject of WK induced illness (notice the obvious self-conscious sidestepping of the terms Black Breath and Black Shadow), got me rather curious and thinking about the long term effects of Frodo’s encounter, and Aragorn’s attempts at healing him at the time. Granted Frodo was on the receiving end of the blade and a shard of it remained in him, but it is interesting to look at both these and see perhaps what Aragorn might have had in mind when treating Frodo with athelas, or perhaps what he had learned or realized since.

When he (Aragorn) had looked upon the faces of the sick and seen their hurts he sighed. ‘Here I must put forth all such power and skill as is given to me,’ he said. Would that Elrond were here, for he is the eldest of all our race, and has greater power.’

Beside acknowledging his skill, is Aragorn counting Elrond’s half-human side here? I had to go pull out my pristine ‘newer’ copy of RoTK to check if this ‘race’ hadn’t been changed to ‘races’ in the interval between printings. No change. But then Aragorn has his own drop or two of elven blood, as well. Still this and the comparison to Gandalf is making Aragorn seem somewhat superhuman, if you’ll excuse the term, one giant step better than your typical man of Westernesse, or perhaps closer to its roots.

Another question that I’d like to place before this group concerns Aragorn’s removal of the Star of the North-kingdom from his banner as he set up his camp outside the gate. What does this mean to you? Is it simply an outward sign that Aragorn did not wish to challenge Denethor?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

Beside acknowledging his skill, is Aragorn counting Elrond’s half-human side here? I had to go pull out my pristine ‘newer’ copy of RoTK to check if this ‘race’ hadn’t been changed to ‘races’ in the interval between printings. No change. But then Aragorn has his own drop or two of elven blood, as well. Still this and the comparison to Gandalf is making Aragorn seem somewhat superhuman, if you’ll excuse the term, one giant step better than your typical man of Westernesse, or perhaps closer to its roots.

I've always assumed that by "race", Aragorn here means the descendents of Luthien- that special breed of part-Men, part-Elves in whom flowed the blood of the Maiar, and who derived special powers from it... Of course, I COULD be wrong.

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

Another question that I’d like to place before this group concerns Aragorn’s removal of the Star of the North-kingdom from his banner as he set up his camp outside the gate. What does this mean to you? Is it simply an outward sign that Aragorn did not wish to challenge Denethor?

I've always seen it in the light of humility. Much like not entering the city, Aragorn is doing his best to not stir up any discord. The Elendilmir, after all, was emblematic of the Kingship of Arnor, as it says in a footnote to Appendix A iii:

that was also so in Arnor, whose kings were no crown, but bore a single white gem, the Elendilmir, Star of Elendil, bound on their brows with a silver fillet.

As the symbol of the Kingship of Arnor, it is a clear statement about Aragorn's lineage as Heir of Isildur, and an obvious reminder of his claim, through him, to the Throne of Gondor. If Aragorn wished to be appear only "a captain of Rangers, who are unused to cities and houses of stone", he was wise to remove such an obvious sign of royalty.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

Hmm. I formerly thought that each individual smelled in the athelas what was appropriate for them, but then again the others smelled it too. And how could that be? (And one wonders if all would share Ioreth’s thought that it was a ‘wholesome’ fragrance.) It seemly likely that Aragorn must have been some special skill such as directing a specific scent, or else kingsfoil would have been used for more than headaches in Gondor!
. . . .

Oh, I think you are quite right here, Hilde; each administration of athelas does produce a scent particular to each patient, and those watching Aragorn perform the healing rite apparently smell the scent appropriate to each patient.

Originally Posted by Faramir's healing

Then taking two leaves, he [Aragorn] laid them on his hands and breathed on them, and then he crushed them, and straightaway a living freshness filled the room, as if the air itself awoke and tingled, sparkling with joy. And then he cast the leaves into the bowls of steaming water that were brought to him, and at once all hearts were lightened. For the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in Spring is itself but a fleeting memory.

Originally Posted by Eowyn's healing

. . . as the sweet influence of the herb stole about the chamber it seemed to those who stood by that a keen wind blew through the window, and it bore no scent, but was an air wholly fresh and clean and young, as if it had not before been breathed by any living thing and came new-made from snowy mountains hight beneath a dome of stars, or from shores of silver far away washed by seas of foam.

Originally Posted by Merry's healing

And when the fragrance of athelas stole through the room, like the scent of orchards, and of heather in the sunshine full of bees, suddenly Merry awoke....

Each scent subtly takes on hues and perfumes of each patient's own culture. Faramir's suggests the inheritance of Gondor and its memory of Numenor and beyond. Eowyn's partakes of the bracing cool air of high mountain tops, snow capped all year long and perhaps the northern history of the Rohirrim. And Merry's is The Shire on a warm summer day, lazy with humming warmth. Aragorn/athelas recalls them to their homes. The effect seems consistent in reminding each patient of his home, calling each one back from the dark chill, although that home is unique for each of Faramir, Eowyn, and Merry. They are brought back to themselves and their rightful inheritance you might say.

How can this be? Athelas appeals to the same place in each patient's mind--the olfactory nerves and--I think this is correct--the olfactory bulb--but what it recalls them to is unique for each person. How of course everyone else in the room is swept up in each unique scent is a bit of a mystery. Presumably only Aragorn himself would experience the different aromas. And interestingly, the text does not tell us that others in Merry's rooms have the same sensory experience: the passage is rendered in without their reactions. We have only the omniscient narration.

Perhaps athelas functions like the letters in the Chinese alphabet. The letter is consistent across all the different Chinese dialects, but the word which the symbol represents is different. Such polysemy is particularly important in medieval times, where symbols were widely used in illiterate cultures. Each culture would 'translate' the symbol according to its own system of meaning.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Bethberry

Each scent subtly takes on hues and perfumes of each patient's own culture. Faramir's suggests the inheritance of Gondor and its memory of Numenor and beyond. Eowyn's partakes of the bracing cool air of high mountain tops, snow capped all year long and perhaps the northern history of the Rohirrim. And Merry's is The Shire on a warm summer day, lazy with humming warmth. Aragorn/athelas recalls them to their homes.

I like the idea that the scents recall cultural memories in each patient and that they bring each 'home' once more. This would be a fitting cure for the ailments they are suffering, which again are differing. Faramir is suffering from grief while Eowyn and Merry are suffering from 'the Black shadow'.

But one thing stands out for me as not fitting into a cultural pattern and that is one of the effects associated with Eowyn:

an air wholly fresh and clean and young, as if it had not before been breathed by any living thing and came new-made from snowy mountains hight beneath a dome of stars, or from shores of silver far away washed by seas of foam.

This does not seem to fit with any cultural ideas of the Rohirrim. They are not a sea-faring people. In fact, this would fit more with Faramir given the maritime history of the Numenoreans. Strangely, some of the words associated with Faramir actually sound more fitting to Eowyn:

the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in Spring is itself but a fleeting memory.

Hmmm...Perhaps the scents evoke not personalities, nor even cultural memories, but dreams, or that which the patient yearns for. It is quite easy to see Eowyn yearning for the 'escape' of empty seashores and the grandeur of mountains; the images used to describe the scent when she is treated are evocative of wide open spaces and freedom. But again, the words used for Faramir have me a little foxed.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I like the idea that the scents recall cultural memories in each patient and that they bring each 'home' once more. This would be a fitting cure for the ailments they are suffering, which again are differing. Faramir is suffering from grief while Eowyn and Merry are suffering from 'the Black shadow'.

But one thing stands out for me as not fitting into a cultural pattern and that is one of the effects associated with Eowyn:

Quote:
an air wholly fresh and clean and young, as if it had not before been breathed by any living thing and came new-made from snowy mountains hight beneath a dome of stars, or from shores of silver far away washed by seas of foam.


This does not seem to fit with any cultural ideas of the Rohirrim. They are not a sea-faring people. In fact, this would fit more with Faramir given the maritime history of the Numenoreans. Strangely, some of the words associated with Faramir actually sound more fitting to Eowyn:

Quote:
the fragrance that came to each was like a memory of dewy mornings of unshadowed sun in some land of which the fair world in Spring is itself but a fleeting memory.


Hmmm...Perhaps the scents evoke not personalities, nor even cultural memories, but dreams, or that which the patient yearns for. It is quite easy to see Eowyn yearning for the 'escape' of empty seashores and the grandeur of mountains; the images used to describe the scent when she is treated are evocative of wide open spaces and freedom. But again, the words used for Faramir have me a little foxed.

Interesting idea, Lal, a dream of something they desire but have never known. Yet would this suit Merry's scent? I'm not sure.

Grief indeed is part of Faramir's wound, yet Aragorn does link Faramir's illness with the Shadow:

Originally Posted by Tolkien via Aragorn

"... How do you read this matter?" [Imrahil]

"Weariness, grief for his father's mood, a wound, and over all the Black Breath," said Aragorn. "He is a man of staunch will,for already he had come close under the Shadow before ever he rode to battle on the out-walls. Slowly the dark must have crept on him, even as he found and strove to hold his outpost. Would that I could have been here sooner!"

I think we have to recall that the Rohirrim are not native to Rohan, but are Northmen, come down from the Vales of the Anduin "between the furthest ranges of the Misty Mountains and the northernmost parts of Mirkwood", to quote Appendix A. I read the scent of Eowyn as an ancestral call reaching far back into her people's past. The Northmen were of a different line than the Numenoreans, descending from the Middle peoples rather than the Edain and ultimately of course harkening back to the Hildor, the Aftercomers, who awoke in Hildorien, on the shores of the East Sea. So we have this sea thing again, as a universal symbol.

Interesting that you think the words associated with Faramir would suit Eowyn better, as I absolutely have no sense that they would at all, quite otherwise in fact, for it is the Gondorians who are awash in nostalgic memory somewhat akin to that of the elves. The first sunrise, after all, was in the West, over Aman and Numenor, no?

And so, in Eowyn and Faramir, the two 'strains' of the Hildor, reunite.

But then again, "Dome of Stars" is a name for Osgiliath, where Faramir was wounded. Do we have Aragorn actually acting as a matchmaker here?

Still and all, what are dreams made on? Desire for what would be or what was or a little of both?

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

It would seem that the Nazgul effect a loss of perspective, and their victims despair no longer being grounded in a reality, but lost in their own darkened distorted thoughts. (Sounds a lot like major Depression, doesn't it?) This makes me question whether the scent each patient smelled was not what they yearned for, but rather what might comfort them, whether real or imagined. Perhaps then Aragorn guessed that these were the scents best suited for each. Being knowledgeable in history and well traveled it would seem possible, and I think I might be reiterating the thoughts expressed earlier.

Formendacil, I do like the idea of Aragorn’s humility prompting him to remove the star, but it still strikes me as sad. Perhaps it is intended to, I don’t know. But the mention that Gandalf had to beg him to enter the city, and that he obeyed in order to help was very moving, although the practical side of me was wondering were Andúril was at the time, for it was said that he didn't have any tokens of his claim except the Elessar.

One more thought about Frodo’s illness, if you will indulge me, I am wondering if Aragorn might have sought Elrond out to learn more of healing such maladies as Frodo recovered in Rivendell. If that were the case the hobbit might possibly have helped the king in a round about way, though at the time it was harrowing.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

Formendacil, I do like the idea of Aragorn’s humility prompting him to remove the star, but it still strikes me as sad. Perhaps it is intended to, I don’t know. But the mention that Gandalf had to beg him to enter the city, and that he obeyed in order to help was very moving, although the practical side of me was wondering were Andúril was at the time, for it was said that he didn't have any tokens of his claim except the Elessar.

Perhaps Anduril remained in camp. Or, perhaps, Anduril cannot be considered an obvious token of his claim. After all, in its reforging, Narsil received quite a bit of redecoration that would differentiate it from its former self, in addition to being encased in a clearly non-Numenorean sheath from Lothlorien onwards.

Furthermore, in the eyes of the beholder, Anduril is pretty much just a sword. The Elendilmir is pretty much one-of-a-kind, as is the Elessar. The royal banner is also immediately recognisable as belonging to the king. But Anduril. Unless one had it pointed out to them that it was Narsil reforged, there is no reason to think that anybody would think it anything other than an ordinary sword. After all, I doubt if there was anything about its general look to immediately mark it out as Elendil's sword. I doubt that even Denethor or Imrahil would recognise it at a glance as Narsil reforged.

Of course, Aragorn might just have left it in camp...

[Alphaelin]

But the mention that Gandalf had to beg him to enter the city, and that he obeyed in order to help was very moving, although the practical side of me was wondering were Andúril was at the time, for it was said that he didn't have any tokens of his claim except the Elessar.

Good question about Anduril, Hilde! This could have been a deliberate omission on Tolkien's part, as if to show that a good ruler/leader does not depend on phyiscal strength or force to maintain his (or her) position. Anduril isn't necessary for Aragorn in this chapter, as this is like another test of his fitness to take up the crown -- one in which the sword is useless. Here he must use his knowledge to save lives instead of taking them. A leader who only knows how to fight isn't much use after the war is over.

Or as Formendacil says, he could have just left Anduril in camp

Maybe the ability to heal, in this chapter, can be read at more than one level. Gondor needs rescue in more than just the sense of 'outsiders attacking the city'. 'The Pyre of Denethor' gave the idea that Gondor was sick in its very heart...in the person of the Steward. As Faramir, Eowyn and Merry need healing at both the phyisical and emotional levels, so does Gondor (the city and its people) need healing from the physical damage of battle and the psychic damage of years of despair and fear. Aragorn helped rescue the city and its inhabitants from the immediate danger of destruction in the Battle of Pelennor Field. In this chapter he must show them that he can heal their long-term hurts.

Or maybe I am just reading too much into this chapter.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Esty

Which is your favourite line?

For me, it is this:

'Few other griefs amid the ill chances of this world have more bitterness and shame for a man's heart than to behold the love of a lady so fair and brave that cannot be returned.'

Seeing as I am a female, I cannot vouch for these words from Aragorn. But this statement made him all the more endearing - swoon-worthy, if you will. (How I missed that word.) There is no question about Aragorn's faithfulness to Arwen despite the distance between them; in The Passing of the Grey Company we have witnessed a bitter exchange between Aragorn and Éowyn that left us without a doubt that Aragorn cannot and will not reciprocate Éowyn's feelings for him, no matter how much it hurt him to see her love him hopelessly. There is also that subtle reference to Arwen in Rivendell which Éowyn did not catch. After all, his primary motivation for doing all that he does is his love for Arwen.

But in the conversation preceding Éowyn's healing we see that Aragorn is not completely oblivious to the effects he had on Éowyn. (Nor is Éomer, although there is no mention of him in relevance to the issue previously.) It is touching that Aragorn, despite his seemingly harsh manner towards Éowyn in the aforementioned chapter, shows that he actually cares a lot about her. I can almost see the guilt solidify in his mind (or maybe it's just me), but Éomer was quick to reassure him that he does not hold him responsible for whatever has befallen his sister. And the statement I quoted above reveals a slight regret on his part for not being able to love Éowyn back. (Dare we think that if Arwen were not in the picture, Éowyn would be Queen of Gondor? )

Indeed what a different world we would have if all men would think along those lines in such circumstances as Aragorn and Éowyn were in.

One of the things that I wondered about most the first time I read this chapter is this glaring difference in Éowyn's healing from that of Faramir's and Merry's: Aragorn left before she woke up, and instead of calling her himself he passes the task to Éomer. What could be the possible reason behind this? Was he afraid that her feelings for him would be rekindled, in fact be even stronger, seeing that she is indebted to him for her life? Or did he just think that Éomer is more appropriate for the task, what with him fearing that his sister was dead and all?

Further thoughts on this to come. (My, I seem inspired by personal experience! )

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

. . . . There is no question about Aragorn's faithfulness to Arwen despite the distance between them; in The Passing of the Grey Company we have witnessed a bitter exchange between Aragorn and Éowyn that left us without a doubt that Aragorn cannot and will not reciprocate Éowyn's feelings for him, no matter how much it hurt him to see her love him hopelessly. There is also that subtle reference to Arwen in Rivendell which Éowyn did not catch. After all, his primary motivation for doing all that he does is his love for Arwen.

But in the conversation preceding Éowyn's healing we see that Aragorn is not completely oblivious to the effects he had on Éowyn. (Nor is Éomer, although there is no mention of him in relevance to the issue previously.) It is touching that Aragorn, despite his seemingly harsh manner towards Éowyn in the aforementioned chapter, shows that he actually cares a lot about her. I can almost see the guilt solidify in his mind (or maybe it's just me), but Éomer was quick to reassure him that he does not hold him responsible for whatever has befallen his sister. And the statement I quoted above reveals a slight regret on his part for not being able to love Éowyn back. (Dare we think that if Arwen were not in the picture, Éowyn would be Queen of Gondor? )

Indeed what a different world we would have if all men would think along those lines in such circumstances as Aragorn and Éowyn were in.

. . . .

Lhunda, are you suggesting that one of the main purposes or functions of Eowyn as a character is to provide an opportunity for Tolkien to explore Aragorn's temptation? Aragorn foregoes using his power over someone, a trait which most (if not all ) men lack? The desire to use a talent, a skill, an ability is, Tolkien says in "On Fairey Stories" a dominant characteristic of mankind--he even says it is a god-like attribute when he describes it as the urge to subcreate. Yet here Tolkien has Aragorn walk away from his "Ring".

This would suggest that Tolkien was less interested in exploring female psyche--something which makes Eowyn very different from Arwen and Galadriel after all and is anomylous in the tale--but was simply looking for a way to dramatise Aragorn's self discipline and special heroism.

[Lalwendë]

At the very end of the next chapter is the hint that maybe Anduril was simply kept sheathed:

Then he drew Anduril and held it up glittering in the sun. 'You shall not be sheathed again until the last battle is fought,' he said.

If so, then that was a wise move on the part of Aragorn. The tales quickly spread around Minas Tirith that 'the king' had returned after he had been into the Houses of Healing; previous to this, it was more diplomatic to keep such a highly symbolic item as Anduril hidden. He literally kept his Kingship under cover.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

One of the things that I wondered about most the first time I read this chapter is this glaring difference in Éowyn's healing from that of Faramir's and Merry's: Aragorn left before she woke up, and instead of calling her himself he passes the task to Éomer. What could be the possible reason behind this? Was he afraid that her feelings for him would be rekindled, in fact be even stronger, seeing that she is indebted to him for her life? Or did he just think that Éomer is more appropriate for the task, what with him fearing that his sister was dead and all?

I've thought of that one myself, as it did seem to stick out as rather odd behaviour on Aragorn's part. But thinking about it, his behaviour here seems very noble and indeed, caring. He realises that he was the catalyst for Eowyn seeking to go to war and even reveals a little of his feelings on the matter. If he had been there when she woke then this might have appeared to Eowyn to be a 'sign' of something other than simple caring for a fallen comrade. Whether or not she actually would think that we cannot say, but Aragorn clearly sees that there is this risk.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Lhunda, are you suggesting that one of the main purposes or functions of Eowyn as a character is to provide an opportunity for Tolkien to explore Aragorn's temptation? Aragorn foregoes using his power over someone, a trait which most (if not all ) men lack? The desire to use a talent, a skill, an ability is, Tolkien says in "On Fairey Stories" a dominant characteristic of mankind--he even says it is a god-like attribute when he describes it as the urge to subcreate. Yet here Tolkien has Aragorn walk away from his "Ring".

This would suggest that Tolkien was less interested in exploring female psyche--something which makes Eowyn very different from Arwen and Galadriel after all and is anomylous in the tale--but was simply looking for a way to dramatise Aragorn's self discipline and special heroism.

I think Tolkien explores Eowyn's psyche in some depth. In this instance he is exploring Aragorn's psyche. Aragorn does not use his 'power' over Eowyn because it would be wrong to do so. He certainly was not averse to using his power over a weaker opponent if it was necessary - he does exactly that with Gollum when he captures him - & so does Gandalf in the dungeons of Thranduil. I think this is a case of circumstances altering cases.

[Essex]

Reading this chapter shows to me the amount of attention I give to the hobbits whilst reading the books. It is to these creatures I really invest my time and thoughts to. I seem to love them like sons. The pride I feel when they are honoured or praised brings
tears to my eyes. When Eoywn awakes, one of the first things she states is

And what of the king's esquire, the Halfling? Éomer, you shall make him a knight of the Riddermark, for he is valiant!

The pride I feel for Merry here is emmense. Also, when Gandalf earlier mentions to Pippin

He should have been borne in honour into this city' he said. 'He has well repaid my trust; for if Elrond had not yielded to me, neither of you would have set out; and then far more grievous would the evils of this day have been.'

again, this is a very emotional point for me, along with the pang of sorrow I feel for Merry when he asks Pippin

'Are you going to bury me?'

.

[Lhunardawen]

This might have already been very obvious throughout the discussion of this chapter, but I just love how Aragorn comes out here as the unquestionable king of Gondor in all respects. I feel that different 'sectors' of Gondorian society view their king in different ways:

1. Denethor, being the Steward and not of the line of kings, considers the lineage.

'But I say to thee, Gandalf Mithrandir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the House of Anarion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Isildur. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity.'

2. The soldiers of Gondor - even their allies - view their king as a mighty warrior, as implied in The Battle of the Pelennor Fields. There Aragorn's claim to the kingship were signified by the Standard of Gondor that he displayed, the Star of the North Kingdom, and Anduril. Though nothing of this has been said, I do not doubt that this early on in the story, some Gondorians have come to believe that their king has indeed come.

3. Most significantly in this discussion, the healers, particularly Ioreth, acknowledge their king as a fellow healer. (I don't think I need to quote again Ioreth's words regarding this.) In my opinion, Aragorn came into Minas Tirith without the symbols of his kingship that I have mentioned above not only because he did not want any debate, but also because they were unneccessary. All he needs to prove that he is king at this time is his ability to heal, and the Elessar - regardless of its role in the act - is a symbol of that.

One of the most touching scenes in this chapter is this:

'Strider! How splendid! Do you know, I guessed it was you in the black ships. But they were shouting corsairs and wouldn't listen to me. How did you do it?
Aragorn laughed, and took the hobbit by the hand. 'Well met indeed!' he said. 'But there is not time yet for travellers' tales.'
But Imrahil said to Eomer: 'Is it thus that we speak to our kings? Yet maybe he will wear his crown in some other name!'

Reading this filled me with a little condescension towards Imrahil. As the reader, I have known about Aragorn as Strider all the time; as a matter of fact, that was how I first knew him. But Imrahil only knew Aragorn as the rightful king, and so it came to him as a surprise that others would talk to him in such a manner, perhaps very slightly irreverently it seemed to him, if I may say (meaning no offense to Imrahil).

That is why I consider Pippin's words here very refreshing. I don't know about you all, but at this point I already felt a little choked up with all this talk of Aragorn being king, as if I miss the Aragorn that I have known through the hobbits, specifically Merry and Pippin. (I don't mean to say that Aragorn is suffering from multiple personality disease! ) So to me, seeing the word 'Strider' uttered in direct reference to Aragorn once again is a welcome relief, though that he did not exactly respond to Pippin's query as Strider would have, if you take my meaning. I do realize the gravity of their situation, so I understand that. What matters is that despite having become Elessar, he does not forget that he is still Strider.

[/rambling]

[Formendacil]

The biggest surprise for me rereading "The Houses of Healing" was how emotional I got--there were faint stirrings of tears at each of the awakenings. The whole chapter is emotional, and we start getting resolutions to things here--it is suggested above that Merry has achieved his growth. After chapters of dread and tension and then the climactic battle and pyre of Denethor, we get a genuinely "happy" chapter, one more liberally sprinkled with humour than any we've seen in Book V (indeed, have we seen ANY humour ere now?).

It occurs to me to wonder if Imrahil knew Thorongil during his time in Gondor. I *think* (I'm dangerously not looking up Imrahil's age) that Imrahil was old enough to have encountered him, even if he might not have been truly adult. As Finduilas's brother, he's a junior contemporary of Denethor, who certainly did know Thorongil, though we're not definitively told that Denethor ever positively IDed Gandalf's Ranger of the North as the same man. *IF* Imrahil recognised him, years later, it's clear that Imrahil has no doubts about Aragorn's claim, but perhaps this influences his agreement that Aragorn be circumspect in his approach to Denethor.

Structurally, one thing I noticed that I'd never before was how, in addition to milking them for some gentle humour, Tolkien also uses Ioreth and the Loremaster to emphasise how little time Faramir and Eowyn have: both Aragorn and Gandalf speak briefly, even curtly, constantly mentioning that haste is needed. It's only after the healing has begun that Aragorn indulges in his parody of the loremaster's style.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

It occurs to me to wonder if Imrahil knew Thorongil during his time in Gondor. I *think* (I'm dangerously not looking up Imrahil's age) that Imrahil was old enough to have encountered him, even if he might not have been truly adult. As Finduilas's brother, he's a junior contemporary of Denethor, who certainly did know Thorongil, though we're not definitively told that Denethor ever positively IDed Gandalf's Ranger of the North as the same man. *IF* Imrahil recognised him, years later, it's clear that Imrahil has no doubts about Aragorn's claim, but perhaps this influences his agreement that Aragorn be circumspect in his approach to Denethor.

Imrahil was born in 2955, so he was 2 when Thorongil first came on the scene, but 25 when he left. Denethor married Finduilas in 2976, for what it's worth. It seems like there would have been a good chance that as a young man Imrahil met Thorongil – not that I'm saying he would have recognised him later.

[Galadriel55]

I just noticed something interesting that I don't believe was discussed previously on this thread, and I want to open it up for speculation.

For though all lore was in these latter days fallen from its fullness of old, the leechcraft of Gondor was still wise, and skilled in the healing of wound and hurt, and all such sickness as east of the Sea mortal men were subject to. Save old age only. For that they had found no cure; and indeed the span of their lives had now waned to little more than that of other men, and those among them who passed the tale of five score years with vigour were grown few, save in some houses of purer blood.

"All sickness.. save old age only". Does it not seem like old age is being grouped in as an imperfection of the human kind that ought to be fixed or avoided? Could this be an echo of the Numenorian obsession with death - though Gondor strives against it with its healing rather than its temples, but in a world where healing is as much magic as science the line may be blurred. At the very least it is not an obsession, like it was in the corrupted Numenor, but could it be some remnant of the same ideas unconsciously persisting in those who escaped the Fall? I used to read this as to mean that they had a cure for everything except for the inevitable old age, which is a compliment to their skill, but it also sounds a little like they attempt[ed] to cure age implying that they think it could and should be "cured".

I also don't like the word "leechcraft". For me it carries too much of an overtone of uselessness and guesswork, and an idea of a universal cure. The healers of Gondor were so much more than just leechers, and it hurts a little to hear their work called leechcraft. I didn't even notice until now, cause I usually read my translation in favour of the original for sentimental reasons, and they use other words to denote healing without the connection to leeching. This word sounds very jarring and unmerited to my unaccustomed ears, because the Healers can do a lot more and do it a lot better than this profession description conveys. Maybe I'm being too picky, and that the word is broad enough to cover all forms of healing and not just leeching, but it seemed jarring given the respect the Healers otherwise command on a professional level.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I also don't like the word "leechcraft". For me it carries too much of an overtone of uselessness and guesswork, and an idea of a universal cure.

Well, two chapters prior in The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, Imrahil says:

'Men of Rohan! Are there no leeches among you? [Eowyn] is hurt, to the death maybe, but I deem that she yet lives.'

To the Gondorian mind, at least, it seems that the term 'leech' carried no negative connotation.

[Formendacil]

I think the use of the terms "leech" and "leechcraft" have more to do with Tolkien evoking the ancientry of Gondor than using bloodsucking worms medicinally.

And! A little bit of quick googling "etymology of leech" leads me to believe we have a classic case of Tolkien attempting to reintroduce aan old meaning to a modern form: "leech" with the archaic meaning of "doctor" apparently has quite a few cognates in Germanic tongues.

That said, the descent of elven derived healing into bloodsucking worms does sound like a bit of a metaphor for the fall of Numenor.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

I think the use of the terms "leech" and "leechcraft" have more to do with Tolkien evoking the ancientry of Gondor than using bloodsucking worms medicinally.

It seems you're correct.
As Théoden angrily remarked to Wormtongue in The King of the Golden Hall:

'Your leechcraft ere long would have had me walking on all fours like a beast.'

Théoden, being of part Gondorian descent, could be expected to use some of their expressions.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Etymology:

leech (n.2)

"physician" (obsolete, poetical, or archaic), from Old English læce "leech," probably from Old Danish læke, from Proto-Germanic *lekjaz "enchanter, one who speaks magic words; healer, physician" (source also of Old Frisian letza, Old Saxon laki, Old Norse læknir, Old High German lahhi, Gothic lekeis "physician"), literally "one who counsels," perhaps connected with a root found in Celtic (compare Irish liaig "charmer, exorcist, physician") and Slavic (compare Serbo-Croatian lijekar, Polish lekarz), from PIE *lep-agi "conjurer," from root *leg- (1) "to collect, gather," with derivatives meaning "to speak (to 'pick out words')."

For sense development, compare Old Church Slavonic baliji "doctor," originally "conjurer," related to Serbo-Croatian bajati "enchant, conjure;" Old Church Slavonic vrači, Russian vrač "doctor," related to Serbo-Croatian vrač "sorcerer, fortune-teller." The form merged with leech (n.1) in Middle English, apparently by folk etymology. In early Middle English also of God and Christ; by 17c. the sense had so deteriorated leech typically was applied only to veterinary practitioners, and soon it was entirely archaic.

The fourth finger of the hand, in Old English, was læcfinger, translating Latin digitus medicus, Greek daktylus iatrikos, supposedly because a vein from that finger stretches straight to the heart.

leech (v.)

"to cure, heal," c. 1200, from Old English also had a verb læcnian, from the source of leech (n.2). Meaning "to apply leeches medicinally" is from 1802 (implied in leeching), from leech (n.1). Related: Leeched.

[Galadriel55]

Well, I just discovered something. I have been assuming that leech=doctor etymologically derived from their use of leeches=bloodsuckers. But having read your comments and done a little search I realized it might well be the other way around, in which case I retract my case. It still sounds jarring with the modern association but it makes perfect sense etymologically.