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#1 | ||
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
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This is one of my favourite chapters! It’s full of emotional highlights, with both touching and humorous moments. Though fighting continues, we are taken away from the battle scene to the aftermath, the necessary process of healing for those who have been severely hurt, more than just injured. We follow Gandalf, who no longer takes an active part in the battle – that alone shows us how important the persons of whom he takes care are!
Though the readers begin the chapter accompanying Merry from his point of view, we soon lose his eyes when he succumbs to his ailment. After that, the narrator follows various characters, until the threads of the tale come together in the Houses of Healing. The usually cheerful Merry is greatly changed, seeing the city as his tomb and wondering if Pippin is taking him to be buried. Instead, Gandalf himself comes in search of him, a sign of the honour Merry deserves, which Gandalf also puts into words. We readers are primarily interested in the fates of the three patients important and known to us, though there are many in the Houses of Healing. I find it interesting that the loss of healing ability and knowledge in Gondor is mentioned especially in connection with old age, touching on the issue previously mentioned. It is also interesting that Gandalf is relatively helpless here, lacking the ability to heal the patients – should we have expected him to be able to do that? Instead, Aragorn is the one who brings healing. His humility is shown when he refuses to enter the city without legitimation. For all he knows, Denethor is still alive, and Imrahil shares his sceptical attitude toward the Steward’s willingness to accept his authority. We see that the future King has learned the lesson he was taught at the Golden Hall – no arrogance, even though he be in the right! Pippin later mentions the similarity between Aragorn and Gandalf, and it shows once when he (at that moment yet unknown) enters the city clad in inconspicuous grey. One of my favourite minor characters, and one of the few women introduced in the story by name and with conversation, is Ioreth. It’s interesting that she and the herb-master provide the occasion for some humour, a rare occurrence outside of the Shire. Though she is shown as talkative, garrulous even, she is also the repository of wisdom and important to the healing process with her knowledge of old wives’ tales. This is where Celeborn’s prediction comes true! She is practical and cares for her charges, and even plays a pivotal role in the acceptance of Aragorn as king by the people of the city, since she spreads the story of the healings. Aragorn and Gandalf have all of the good, humorous lines, showing their wit – gently mocking without being spiteful. I love the dry fun of lines such as: Quote:
Another minor character, Bergil, plays a small but pivotal role in bringing the athelas to Aragorn. Interestingly, a good deal of the healing precedes the use of the herb – Aragorn touches the patients and appears to struggle internally to call them back. What do you think of the various steps in the healing process? Did you notice that there are slight variations in his treatment of the three? Let’s discuss the differing reactions of each as well; Éowyn’s healing is especially interesting due to the conversations carried on about her. Aragorn also leaves different instructions for the convalescence of each. There are so many wonderful, quotable lines in this chapter; I’d like to mention my absolute favourite: Quote:
One more detail in this already lengthy introduction (pardon my enthusiasm – there’s still plenty left for all of you to discuss!!) – Aragorn chooses yet another name, or rather ennobles a nickname by making it into the name of his house. “Strider” becomes “Telcontar”. I’ve mentioned my opinion on the significance of this choice on the thread about “wandering” – what do you think is important about it? (And no, it’s not just because of my nick connection that I find this interesting….) And so the chapter ends, with the return of the King, though yet in secret and in service to his people.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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The first thing that struck me on re-reading this chapter is that it is the culmination of Merry’s story. He began as, in many ways, the leader of the expedition, he organised everything, he wanted to go on an adventure & see the world. Over the course fo the story he goes through many experiences which change him. When he emerges from the Barrow he has had a strange dream where it seems he entered the mind of one of the Arnorien warriors slain by the men of Carn Dum. He is drawn to follow the Black Riders in Bree, he swears his oath of alllegiance to Theoden. He has come face to face with a larger world & felt the oppressive weight of it:
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The Athelas is a subject worth returning to. It seems to have more than natural healing power. The words used to describe its effect are odd: Quote:
Aragorn humbles himself to go unknown into his city. He could have rode in in triumph, but he goes as a simple Ranger on a mission to heal the sick. It is this aspect of Aragorn’s character which I think draws us to him in a far more powerful & deeper way than to the confused & self doubting movie-Aragorn. Book Aragorn knows & accepts his responsibility to his people & puts them first in everything. He will accept suffering, abuse, mockery & condemnation on their behalf. He will put aside his ‘glory’ out of love for his people (& if anyone wants to find ‘applicability’ in that I won’t argue with them. Faramir recognises his king immediately on awakening & offers his service to him. ‘Logically’ this is not possible, but for some reason we accept it, because it seems right. Faramir is the last of a House of Stewards who have been (with some notable exceptions) awaiting the return of the King. Faramir has been rewarded for his long wait, for the sacrifices he has made. His service, albeit in love, to a false ‘king’ is now to be given to the true King. Like Sam later, all Faramir’s dreams have come true on his awakening. Eowyn’s awakening is different - it is as if she will not allow herself to hope & be happy - when she first comes around she seems to have left behind her despair: Quote:
Aragorn goes on to heal others. He labours all through the night to the point of exhaustion. Again we are shown a king who puts his people first & seeks no honour or reward for it. He doesn’t even seek recognition. In order to avoid any kind of risk of confusion & upheaveal that his open presence might engender he removes all signs of his presence: Quote:
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A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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The effects of the Athelas may reflect the characters' personalities, but maybe they reflect what Aragorn thinks of each person? Or is he using the Athelas in such a way as to evoke feelings in each patient that they will particularly respond to? Aragorn must know Merry the best out of all the three patients and perhaps the fact that Merry awakens so quickly and fully reflects this? In any case, however the scents are evoked, I think that it might be worth thinking about what the words for each character really do mean. The Elessar is mentioned several times in this chapter and it brought to my mind where it originally came from and what purpose it had. It was made for Galadriel and I think that it had some purpose in the slowing of time in Lothlorien for the preservation of her realm. In UT there is some background about the creation of the Elessar, its use and its eventual fate: Quote:
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Maybe the Elessar did indeed have healing powers? When Aragorn appears at Gandalf's side it is noteworthy that he bears 'no other token than the green stone of Galadriel'; when he is done healing he leaves Minas Tirith and he casts 'his cloak about him', as though to cover the Elessar once more. Why would Arwen wish to give Aragorn such a gift? And why would she have Galadriel pass it on for her? It is certainly a splendid love token, but Arwen must have known how it could be used. Quote:
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Gordon's alive!
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: commonplace city
Posts: 518
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Concerning the Ellesar: The impression I always had from LOTR was that this was a symbolic peice in nature. In other words, it didnt have any intrinsic power, per say. It's wonderfull history was never even hinted at really in LOTR. I wonder if the author intentionally left it out, so as not to infer that the healing came through it's use, and as a result, put more emphasis on to Aragorn. Still, some of the historical patina of the Elessar could have been diplayed without taking away from Aragorns role in this chapter. But, as far as mortals go, it really was just a piece of elvish glass if your werent a king.
I love the rare instances of humor that occur in this chapter as well! I also see some of Gandalf's stress showing. He goes from high praise: Quote:
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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It is the ‘addendum’ here - ‘And so the rightful king could ever be known’ which is of particular interest - its not only the fact that the rightful king could heal, but the fact that his healing skills were one (perhaps the) way that the rightful king could be known. This ‘old lore’ does away with all the ‘politics’ & determines the ‘rightful king’ by what he can do. It seems that the ordinary people are less interested in heredity & inheritance, & mostly concerned with practicalities - can the king do his job? Can he care for his people? This sets up the standards & requirements of the ‘ordinary’ folk against those of their ‘lords & masters. Denethor is only interested in Aragorn’s legal claim to the throne. Because he finds that claim ‘unsubstantiated’ (he comes ‘merely’ of the House of Isildur) he will not surrender to him. Ioreth bases her judgement of Aragorn on whether he can do the job. Aragorn fulfils the people criteria - he heals the sick - so he is the ‘rightful king’. Gandalf appeals to this: Quote:
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I’m reminded of the line from John Crowley’s Aegypt: ‘There is more than one history of the world’. There is a ‘history’, a wisdom, Traditions, which are dismissed as ignorant & worthless, needing to be ‘stamped out’. Gandalf, Aragorn & Celeborn (& Tolkien himself, one assumes) knew different. |
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Wight
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tottering about in the Wild
Posts: 130
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Hobbits reunited
Two things stand out in this chapter for me. One is Aragorn's healing ability, which I see others also find interesting,
![]() The chapter opens with the same atmosphere of battle-weariness which closed Chapter 7, personified in Merry. He is tired, lost and ill from the Black Breath; wandering in a sort of fog until Pippin finds him. It is touching when Pip takes charge of Merry here. Quote:
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#7 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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![]() Anyway, getting back to the point, it is clear that Tolkien created something new rather than attempt to 'preserve' old English folktales when he created his works and he does make reference to his antipathy of simply collecting old folktales in 'On Fairy Stories'. Here he has his characters display great respect for old folktales and find truth in them as repositories of old wisdom, which is interesting as it seems to conflict somewhat with his own view. But here I think he is showing how the old tales should not merely be treated as simple stories, but that there may be truths in them, hidden histories maybe?
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Gordon's alive!
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#8 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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While I think this is indeed a fascinating chapter, bringing some much needed relief from the intensity of the battle scenes, what I wonder about is Tolkien's sweetly gentle humour for Merry and even Ioreth but not for others.
This is a roundabout way of considering why it is so many of us hold the hobbits so dear. Why is the humour right here for Merry? What would change if Tolkien employed humour to Faramir's situation or to Eowyn's? It's appropriate for Ioreth and also for Merry. Does humour of this sort imply something gentle, friendly, some bond which dissipates the normal distance between readers and other characters? Is it appropriate for characters who are modest, humble, 'lower' than others on the social or the narrative scale? And the humour is neither biting nor cutting. Neither Merry nor Ioreth are cruelly mocked here. (Is mocking reserved for those who strike too close a tone with us?) So, is it this kind of humour one of the ways Tolkien comes to endear the hobbits to us? Among their many other admirable traits of course. Does humour create distance or does it level distance? I'm just so full of questions tonight, sorry.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Signs & Wonders
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Earlier in the story Legolas declared that a red sunrise was a sign that blood had been spilled in the night (the attack of the Rohirrim on the Uruks on the edge of Fangorn. Caradhras & Old Man Willow attack members of the Fellowship, a wind from the West drives back the darkness created by Sauron & dissipates the shades of Saruman & Sauron. The land of Hollin 'remembers the Elves who once dwelt there'.Nature is both 'active' in the form of aiding or thwarting individuals & 'passive' in the sense of providing 'signs', but it is always present, always a participant. From this point of view Middle earth is also a character in the story, not simply a 'backdrop'. I can't help thinking that this may be linked to the statement in The Sil that Eru sent the Secret Fire to dwell in the heart of the earth. It seems that Middle earth is 'alive' in a real sense - though admittedly not always on the side of 'Good'. I think it is this ambiguity which makes Middle earth seem a 'real' place to us, & causes the place to 'live' as a setting for everything from fan fic to computer games. We are drawn to Middle earth as a place in its own right, beyond the events & characters of the story. Its not simply, as with other stories, that we identify with the characters, or would like to meet them - we would like to go to Middle earth, even if the people of the story have gone. It is a world that we form an emotional 'connection' with because of the way it behaves. Finally, its interesting that Imrahil starts off believing that Denethor is alive, & Eomer that Eowyn is dead & then their situations are reversed. Imrahil begins in hope & ends in grief, vice versa for Eomer. The Black Shadow Quote:
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 09-02-2005 at 11:32 AM. |
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#10 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Whichever way we read, if we see this message or do not, then it can't be denied that the landscape itself plays an enormous role in our appreciation of Tolkien's work. There are several writers who do make incredible use of landscape, almost to the point of characterising it, including Thomas Hardy and Emily Bronte; while they use landscape as a setting for stories and to echo characters (see how the landscape changes with the changing fortunes of Tess Durbeyfield), Tolkien made the change in the landscape part of the story in itself. This is why I like the idea that the Secret Fire lives at the heart of the earth. It is as though this is the force around which life in this secondary world revolves, it drives it, and it also creates consequences. In our world it seems to be the skies which drive nature, whereas in Tokien it is the Earth itself.
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Gordon's alive!
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#11 | ||||
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tottering about in the Wild
Posts: 130
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Good catch, Davem
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Which brings to mind Tolkien's description of the healing process in this chapter for both the Black Shadow and Faramir's fever, and how much it seems to depend on the touch of Aragorn's hand. Human touch is surprisingly powerful. It can help ease both physical and emotional pain (both of which are affecting Faramir, Eowyn and Merry). Although I enjoyed the comments of Lalwende regarding the Elessar, I think the idea was that Aragorn himself was the main source of healing, not the stone, or the athelas. Ioreth says "The hands of the king are the hands of a healer." And see how much Aragorn's healing involves the sense of touch. Quote:
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![]() He uses the athelas as a medicinal plant, probably because having grown up in Rivendell in the care of Elrond, a master of lore and healing, he would have learned the properties of the plant, whereas in the rest of Middle Earth, where the old knowledge had faded away, it was only preserved in the equivalent of nursery rhymes (the Chief Warden's piece of 'doggerel' always reminds me of 'Ring Around the Rosy' and its association with the Black Death). In the eyes of Ioreth, and even the Chief Warden, seeing this "weed" used to heal such severe illness might have seemed like an amazing demonstration of supernatural power on Aragorn's part.
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Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
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Hmm. I formerly thought that each individual smelled in the athelas what was appropriate for them, but then again the others smelled it too. And how could that be? (And one wonders if all would share Ioreth’s thought that it was a ‘wholesome’ fragrance.) It seemly likely that Aragorn must have been some special skill such as directing a specific scent, or else kingsfoil would have been used for more than headaches in Gondor! And I suspect that that specific talent was considerably less common than finding a store of athelas in the city!
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Another question that I’d like to place before this group concerns Aragorn’s removal of the Star of the North-kingdom from his banner as he set up his camp outside the gate. What does this mean to you? Is it simply an outward sign that Aragorn did not wish to challenge Denethor? |
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Dead Serious
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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How can this be? Athelas appeals to the same place in each patient's mind--the olfactory nerves and--I think this is correct--the olfactory bulb--but what it recalls them to is unique for each person. How of course everyone else in the room is swept up in each unique scent is a bit of a mystery. Presumably only Aragorn himself would experience the different aromas. And interestingly, the text does not tell us that others in Merry's rooms have the same sensory experience: the passage is rendered in without their reactions. We have only the omniscient narration. Perhaps athelas functions like the letters in the Chinese alphabet. The letter is consistent across all the different Chinese dialects, but the word which the symbol represents is different. Such polysemy is particularly important in medieval times, where symbols were widely used in illiterate cultures. Each culture would 'translate' the symbol according to its own system of meaning.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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But one thing stands out for me as not fitting into a cultural pattern and that is one of the effects associated with Eowyn: Quote:
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#16 | ||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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Grief indeed is part of Faramir's wound, yet Aragorn does link Faramir's illness with the Shadow: Quote:
![]() Interesting that you think the words associated with Faramir would suit Eowyn better, as I absolutely have no sense that they would at all, quite otherwise in fact, for it is the Gondorians who are awash in nostalgic memory somewhat akin to that of the elves. The first sunrise, after all, was in the West, over Aman and Numenor, no? And so, in Eowyn and Faramir, the two 'strains' of the Hildor, reunite. But then again, "Dome of Stars" is a name for Osgiliath, where Faramir was wounded. Do we have Aragorn actually acting as a matchmaker here? Still and all, what are dreams made on? Desire for what would be or what was or a little of both? ![]()
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#17 |
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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It would seem that the Nazgul effect a loss of perspective, and their victims despair no longer being grounded in a reality, but lost in their own darkened distorted thoughts. (Sounds a lot like major Depression, doesn't it?) This makes me question whether the scent each patient smelled was not what they yearned for, but rather what might comfort them, whether real or imagined. Perhaps then Aragorn guessed that these were the scents best suited for each. Being knowledgeable in history and well traveled it would seem possible, and I think I might be reiterating the thoughts expressed earlier.
Formendacil, I do like the idea of Aragorn’s humility prompting him to remove the star, but it still strikes me as sad. Perhaps it is intended to, I don’t know. But the mention that Gandalf had to beg him to enter the city, and that he obeyed in order to help was very moving, although the practical side of me was wondering were Andúril was at the time, for it was said that he didn't have any tokens of his claim except the Elessar. ![]() One more thought about Frodo’s illness, if you will indulge me, I am wondering if Aragorn might have sought Elrond out to learn more of healing such maladies as Frodo recovered in Rivendell. If that were the case the hobbit might possibly have helped the king in a round about way, though at the time it was harrowing. |
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Dead Serious
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Furthermore, in the eyes of the beholder, Anduril is pretty much just a sword. The Elendilmir is pretty much one-of-a-kind, as is the Elessar. The royal banner is also immediately recognisable as belonging to the king. But Anduril. Unless one had it pointed out to them that it was Narsil reforged, there is no reason to think that anybody would think it anything other than an ordinary sword. After all, I doubt if there was anything about its general look to immediately mark it out as Elendil's sword. I doubt that even Denethor or Imrahil would recognise it at a glance as Narsil reforged. Of course, Aragorn might just have left it in camp...
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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Wight
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tottering about in the Wild
Posts: 130
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![]() Or as Formendacil says, he could have just left Anduril in camp ![]() Maybe the ability to heal, in this chapter, can be read at more than one level. Gondor needs rescue in more than just the sense of 'outsiders attacking the city'. 'The Pyre of Denethor' gave the idea that Gondor was sick in its very heart...in the person of the Steward. As Faramir, Eowyn and Merry need healing at both the phyisical and emotional levels, so does Gondor (the city and its people) need healing from the physical damage of battle and the psychic damage of years of despair and fear. Aragorn helped rescue the city and its inhabitants from the immediate danger of destruction in the Battle of Pelennor Field. In this chapter he must show them that he can heal their long-term hurts. Or maybe I am just reading too much into this chapter. ![]()
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#20 | ||
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
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But in the conversation preceding Éowyn's healing we see that Aragorn is not completely oblivious to the effects he had on Éowyn. (Nor is Éomer, although there is no mention of him in relevance to the issue previously.) It is touching that Aragorn, despite his seemingly harsh manner towards Éowyn in the aforementioned chapter, shows that he actually cares a lot about her. I can almost see the guilt solidify in his mind (or maybe it's just me), but Éomer was quick to reassure him that he does not hold him responsible for whatever has befallen his sister. And the statement I quoted above reveals a slight regret on his part for not being able to love Éowyn back. (Dare we think that if Arwen were not in the picture, Éowyn would be Queen of Gondor? ![]() Indeed what a different world we would have if all men would think along those lines in such circumstances as Aragorn and Éowyn were in. ![]() One of the things that I wondered about most the first time I read this chapter is this glaring difference in Éowyn's healing from that of Faramir's and Merry's: Aragorn left before she woke up, and instead of calling her himself he passes the task to Éomer. What could be the possible reason behind this? Was he afraid that her feelings for him would be rekindled, in fact be even stronger, seeing that she is indebted to him for her life? Or did he just think that Éomer is more appropriate for the task, what with him fearing that his sister was dead and all? Further thoughts on this to come. (My, I seem inspired by personal experience! ![]() Last edited by Lhunardawen; 09-07-2005 at 03:45 AM. |
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#21 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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![]() This would suggest that Tolkien was less interested in exploring female psyche--something which makes Eowyn very different from Arwen and Galadriel after all and is anomylous in the tale--but was simply looking for a way to dramatise Aragorn's self discipline and special heroism.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#22 | ||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
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At the very end of the next chapter is the hint that maybe Anduril was simply kept sheathed:
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#23 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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#24 | |||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
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Reading this chapter shows to me the amount of attention I give to the hobbits whilst reading the books. It is to these creatures I really invest my time and thoughts to. I seem to love them like sons. The pride I feel when they are honoured or praised brings
tears to my eyes. When Eoywn awakes, one of the first things she states is Quote:
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#25 | ||
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
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This might have already been very obvious throughout the discussion of this chapter, but I just love how Aragorn comes out here as the unquestionable king of Gondor in all respects. I feel that different 'sectors' of Gondorian society view their king in different ways:
1. Denethor, being the Steward and not of the line of kings, considers the lineage. Quote:
3. Most significantly in this discussion, the healers, particularly Ioreth, acknowledge their king as a fellow healer. (I don't think I need to quote again Ioreth's words regarding this.) In my opinion, Aragorn came into Minas Tirith without the symbols of his kingship that I have mentioned above not only because he did not want any debate, but also because they were unneccessary. All he needs to prove that he is king at this time is his ability to heal, and the Elessar - regardless of its role in the act - is a symbol of that. One of the most touching scenes in this chapter is this: Quote:
That is why I consider Pippin's words here very refreshing. I don't know about you all, but at this point I already felt a little choked up with all this talk of Aragorn being king, as if I miss the Aragorn that I have known through the hobbits, specifically Merry and Pippin. (I don't mean to say that Aragorn is suffering from multiple personality disease! ![]() [/rambling] |
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#26 |
Dead Serious
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The biggest surprise for me rereading "The Houses of Healing" was how emotional I got--there were faint stirrings of tears at each of the awakenings. The whole chapter is emotional, and we start getting resolutions to things here--it is suggested above that Merry has achieved his growth. After chapters of dread and tension and then the climactic battle and pyre of Denethor, we get a genuinely "happy" chapter, one more liberally sprinkled with humour than any we've seen in Book V (indeed, have we seen ANY humour ere now?).
It occurs to me to wonder if Imrahil knew Thorongil during his time in Gondor. I *think* (I'm dangerously not looking up Imrahil's age) that Imrahil was old enough to have encountered him, even if he might not have been truly adult. As Finduilas's brother, he's a junior contemporary of Denethor, who certainly did know Thorongil, though we're not definitively told that Denethor ever positively IDed Gandalf's Ranger of the North as the same man. *IF* Imrahil recognised him, years later, it's clear that Imrahil has no doubts about Aragorn's claim, but perhaps this influences his agreement that Aragorn be circumspect in his approach to Denethor. Structurally, one thing I noticed that I'd never before was how, in addition to milking them for some gentle humour, Tolkien also uses Ioreth and the Loremaster to emphasise how little time Faramir and Eowyn have: both Aragorn and Gandalf speak briefly, even curtly, constantly mentioning that haste is needed. It's only after the healing has begun that Aragorn indulges in his parody of the loremaster's style.
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#27 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#28 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,358
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I just noticed something interesting that I don't believe was discussed previously on this thread, and I want to open it up for speculation.
Quote:
I also don't like the word "leechcraft". For me it carries too much of an overtone of uselessness and guesswork, and an idea of a universal cure. The healers of Gondor were so much more than just leechers, and it hurts a little to hear their work called leechcraft. I didn't even notice until now, cause I usually read my translation in favour of the original for sentimental reasons, and they use other words to denote healing without the connection to leeching. This word sounds very jarring and unmerited to my unaccustomed ears, because the Healers can do a lot more and do it a lot better than this profession description conveys. Maybe I'm being too picky, and that the word is broad enough to cover all forms of healing and not just leeching, but it seemed jarring given the respect the Healers otherwise command on a professional level.
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#29 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,035
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Quote:
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#30 |
Dead Serious
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I think the use of the terms "leech" and "leechcraft" have more to do with Tolkien evoking the ancientry of Gondor than using bloodsucking worms medicinally.
And! A little bit of quick googling "etymology of leech" leads me to believe we have a classic case of Tolkien attempting to reintroduce aan old meaning to a modern form: "leech" with the archaic meaning of "doctor" apparently has quite a few cognates in Germanic tongues. That said, the descent of elven derived healing into bloodsucking worms does sound like a bit of a metaphor for the fall of Numenor.
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#31 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,035
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Quote:
As Théoden angrily remarked to Wormtongue in The King of the Golden Hall: Quote:
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#32 | ||
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,307
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Etymology:
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#33 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,358
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Well, I just discovered something. I have been assuming that leech=doctor etymologically derived from their use of leeches=bloodsuckers. But having read your comments and done a little search I realized it might well be the other way around, in which case I retract my case. It still sounds jarring with the modern association but it makes perfect sense etymologically.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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