Potential Middle Earth movies in the future?

[Victariongreyjoy]

Shadow of Mordor adaption, Prequel young Strider or War Of The North?
The Silmarillion will probably never be adapted, but what about these I mentioned?
Could for example War Of The North include Dol Amroth or the northern Rangers?

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Victariongreyjoy

Shadow of Mordor adaption,

Gosh I hope not.

Prequel young Strider or War Of The North?
The Silmarillion will probably never be adapted, but what about these I mentioned?
Could for example War Of The North include Dol Amroth or the northern Rangers?

I believe that the movie juju of the Lord of the Rings franchise has been exhausted for this generation. I think the next time we will see a Lord of the Rings film it will be many years from now and be a new version of The Fellowship of the Ring.

I can only hope that whoever makes the next version will stay more faithful than Jackson.

[Rhun charioteer]

I think the appendices are adaptable though making it interesting to the public would be the challenge.

[Victariongreyjoy]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

I think the appendices are adaptable though making it interesting to the public would be the challenge.

What if they brought Hugo Weaving Elrond, Cate Blanchett Galadriel, Orlando Bloom Legolas, Evangeline Lilly Tauriel as major elv roles for the War of the North movie?
And get some good actors for the roles in Erebor and perhaps include Glorfindel, Elrond's sons and the dunedain rangers? Perhaps the Swan Knights can have some role in this also. I want Gondor to have the same heroic role like Rohan had in LOTR.

[Rhun charioteer]

Originally Posted by Victariongreyjoy

What if they brought Hugo Weaving Elrond, Cate Blanchett Galadriel, Orlando Bloom Legolas, Evangeline Lilly Tauriel as major elv roles for the War of the North movie?
And get some good actors for the roles in Erebor and perhaps include Glorfindel, Elrond's sons and the dunedain rangers? Perhaps the Swan Knights can have some role in this also. I want Gondor to have the same heroic role like Rohan had in LOTR.

I'd think some of the actors and actresses are too old.

I wouldn't mind seeing a movie about Thorongil destroying the Umbari fleet, or a miniseries about the kin strife and the wain riders.

There is a lot of lore in Tolkien's legendarium that I think could be adapted.

[Victariongreyjoy]

Originally Posted by Rhun charioteer

I'd think some of the actors and actresses are too old.

I wouldn't mind seeing a movie about Thorongil destroying the Umbari fleet, or a miniseries about the kin strife and the wain riders.

There is a lot of lore in Tolkien's legendarium that I think could be adapted.

Makeup and CGI can always fix that. Especially makeup.
I think a prequel of young Strider and War of The North are the best candidates for adaptations.

[Rhun charioteer]

Yeah and movies about the appendices material wouldn't require the extremely expensive budgets of say the Silmarillion.

[Andsigil]

David Lynch did "Dune" back in 1984. It's taken 33 years for another shot at it in cinema, this time with Denis Villeneuve ("Sicario", "Blade Runner 2049", "The Arrival") as the director, and it's going to be a trilogy.

Kuruharan was right when he said it will take a generation before we see more Tolkien films.

[Zigûr]

I think this is likely as well. The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were already famous texts before the films. Putting aside the fact that they would have to almost completely invent the plot from whole cloth (and the Dol Guldur material in the most recent films shows how that can go) I can't imagine how they would market a spinoff.

[Rhun charioteer]

Given that Hollywood currently has a paucity of ideas and the LOTR trilogy is looked upon very favorably(go to any YouTube comment section with LOTR clips) I suspect we might be seeing a new LOTR movie adaptation sooner than later.

Perhaps not until at least 20-25 years after Jackson's films were released(2020s-2030s) but I believe it will happen.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Oh, wunnerful. "Tolkien" movies comprising entirely third-rate fanfic.

Anyone who thinks Shadow of Mordor has any connection to Tolkien whatsoever beyond some nomenclature licensed from the Tower of Orzaentz should be legally barred from ever touching a Tolkien-oriented project.

Hollywood is entirely free to make all the crappy brain-dead sword 'n' sorcery flicks it likes without sullying the Professor's legacy, thank you very much.,

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Hollywood is entirely free to make all the crappy brain-dead sword 'n' sorcery flicks it likes without sullying the Professor's legacy, thank you very much.,

But Tolkien is where the money is! You can't very well expect to have a blockbuster Xena/Hercules/Dungeons and Dragons style flick with a screenplay written by Billy Joe Johnson from El Paso, TX.

[Zigûr]

If they were to make some kind of fan fiction spinoff, it'd have to be called The Lord of the Rings: <SUBTITLE> or similar; otherwise I suspect very few people would see it. The "brand recognition" would need to be manufactured.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Oh, wunnerful. "Tolkien" movies comprising entirely third-rate fanfic.

Anyone who thinks Shadow of Mordor has any connection to Tolkien whatsoever beyond some nomenclature licensed from the Tower of Orzaentz should be legally barred from ever touching a Tolkien-oriented project.

Hollywood is entirely free to make all the crappy brain-dead sword 'n' sorcery flicks it likes without sullying the Professor's legacy, thank you very much.,

Originally Posted by Zigûr

If they were to make some kind of fan fiction spinoff, it'd have to be called The Lord of the Rings: <SUBTITLE> or similar; otherwise I suspect very few people would see it. The "brand recognition" would need to be manufactured.

But is there any legal barrier to them doing exactly this?

[Michael Murry]

I just came across this at Rolling Stone:

http://"http://www.rollingstone.com/...works-w511077"

I have no idea what to make of this. I had hoped to see a spin-off series featuring the Elf Chick security guard searching high and low for a dwarf with something in his pants -- or nothing, whatever -- but then someone made a movie of Wonder Woman and now we hear of sequels in store for that franchise. So I guess my lurid Muddle Earth fantasies will go unconsummated, on film or digital media, for the foreseeable future.

[Nerwen]

Here, I fixed the link.

Hmmn. I wonder if there's anything in this, or is it just wild speculation?

[Inziladun]

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

David Lynch did "Dune" back in 1984. It's taken 33 years for another shot at it in cinema, this time with Denis Villeneuve ("Sicario", "Blade Runner 2049", "The Arrival") as the director, and it's going to be a trilogy.

Kuruharan was right when he said it will take a generation before we see more Tolkien films.

The difference is, the Lynch-DiLaurentis Dune was a commercial flop, indeed a box office disaster, whereas PJ's Rings flicks are some of the biggest moneymakers in history. That makes a big, big difference to the studio suits when evaluating a return to the well.

[R.R.J Tolkien]

Originally Posted by Victariongreyjoy

Shadow of Mordor adaption, Prequel young Strider or War Of The North?
The Silmarillion will probably never be adapted, but what about these I mentioned?
Could for example War Of The North include Dol Amroth or the northern Rangers?

I would be more interested in revisiting lotr more to the books in 20 years.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

The difference is, the Lynch-DiLaurentis Dune was a commercial flop, indeed a box office disaster, whereas PJ's Rings flicks are some of the biggest moneymakers in history. That makes a big, big difference to the studio suits when evaluating a return to the well.

What was "The Hobbit"'s ROI?

[Zigûr]

Wikipedia claims that it made $2.93 billion on a $745 million budget (Wikipedia itself says a $623 million budget, but every source for that claim says $745 million).

That would suggest a profit of almost $2.2 billion, although one should deduct several hundred million more for marketing.

Nevertheless, it's a quantity which probably exceeds Smaug's wildest dreams of avarice. I wonder if they saved or lost money by splitting the project into three films when it was originally meant to be two.

Percentage-wise, however, it's far less than the return the Lord of the Rings trilogy made, which seems to have made almost ten times its cost (depending on marketing and other factors).

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Anyone who thinks Shadow of Mordor has any connection to Tolkien whatsoever beyond some nomenclature licensed from the Tower of Orzaentz should be legally barred from ever touching a Tolkien-oriented project.

The thing about SoM is you play it, and you go 'yeah, I can see what they're trying for here, it's not where I'd take it but it's a reasonable guess at Orc society in Mordor'... and then you take on another main storyline mission and find out that (uh, spoilers I guess?) Gollum is Celebrimbor's biggest fan, or Talion the Half-Nazgul is super down with helping orcs for some reason, or Sauron's war-leaders all hide somewhere and never go near their troops unless someone kills their favourite pig or whatever.

And then you go 'wut'.

(Also it becomes increasingly clear that the developers think Eregion was in Mordor, which is all manner of messed up.)

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I wonder if they saved or lost money by splitting the project into three films when it was originally meant to be two.

You'd also need to wonder whether they made more money by adding the extra stuff. Ignore the extra tickets just from having three films - how many people did they draw in by having Cate Blanchett and Christopher Lee in there? They're both popular actors; I'm sure they sold a few seats. (And in contrast, I doubt very many people went 'well, I was all for it when it was two movies, but three? They're not getting my money!'. Maybe some, though.)

Also there's all the money they must have made from the theme park... what? Whaddaya mean there wasn't one? But... the barrel ride! The thing with the molten gold! DoS was blatantly an advert for their big rollercoasters!

hS

[Aaron]

You couldn't make a movie about it of course, but would anyone else like to see a short film based on The New Shadow? What Tolkien wrote was very dialogue heavy, but dripping in menace and unease, and I could see it working very well if someone were to try and put it to film.

[Eldy]

The New Shadow is intriguing as a fragment but I don't really want to see someone who is not Tolkien try to extend it; at least not as a licensed adaptation that a lot of people would interpret it as "official" in some way. But I don't think an adaptation that broke off at the same place as the text, before there's any payoff to any of the ideas that are introduced, would be very satisfying. I can see how others disagree, though.

[Faramir Jones]

Eldorion, I agree that the problem with trying to film The New Shadow is that there's only a fragment starting the story, with nothing else written by Tolkien about it, not even a summary, framework, or timeline.

My own suggestion is that Aldarion and Erendis: The Mariner's Wife would be a good story to film. It has both politics and romance, the romance going wrong having serious political implications, with a twist in the tale being the revelation of why Aldarion spent so much time away from Numenor. Even if there are only fragments at the end, there are enough so that part of the story can be reconstructed. There would be the option, however, to end the story with Tar-Meneldur making known his decision to abdicate...

What do people think?

[Huinesoron]

The trouble with Aldarion and Erendis is that it's so unrelentingly bleak. It's not like the Fall of Numenor or something, where the ending is that the bad people get destroyed while the good ones get away despite their losses - the end result of A&E is that the miserable people stay miserable. Forget about A&E themselves, Ancalime has a horrible life, and even her grandchildren are affected by the events (her granddaughters feared her and refused the throne on account of her). That's five generations, counting from Meneldur, who just can't catch a break on account of one bad romance.

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

hS

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

I don't see Aldarion and Erendis as being completely hopeless. After all, if not for Aldarion, first as the King's Heir, giving legitimacy and respectability to the Venturers and their Middle-earth voyages, and establishing the first non-Eldarin ports, would it have been possible for the much later defeat of Sauron by Tar-Minastir?

Not to say, though, that such an eventual fruit would be thought 'positive' enough for modern film. I can more easily see a chastened Aldarion renouncing his 'toxic masculinity' and foregoing his seafaring, then putting forth Erendis as a much wiser, 'caring' person for Ruling Queen, and then dedicating his life to shepherding and tree-planting.

[Mithadan]

If I recall Zaentz acquired the rights to The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings only. This included characters, locations, etc, as well as materials in the appendices. Zaentz does not have the rights to the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales or HoME and cannot use stories or characters found therein (except to the extent that they are mentioned in LoTR and The Hobbit).

Theoretically, the company can create new works based upon locations, characters and story fragments from the works it has rights to. This is apparently what is happening with the planned series.

[Faramir Jones]

Thank you for your replies, Huinesoron and Inziladun!

Huinesoron, you have a point here:

The trouble with Aldarion and Erendis is that it's so unrelentingly bleak.

But I would say that it's far from being as bleak as some stories in Game of Thrones. It would be an interesting challenge for a film maker, who wouldn't have as props drugs (including alcohol), swearing, violence (including war) and illicit sex...

When you mentioned this:

Forget about A&E themselves, Ancalime has a horrible life, and even her grandchildren are affected by the events (her granddaughters feared her and refused the throne on account of her). That's five generations, counting from Meneldur, who just can't catch a break on account of one bad romance.

I would have to add another generation to this, making a total of six. Tar-Ancalimë's great-granddaughter was Tar-Telperiën, the Second Ruling Queen. What is interesting is that she refused to marry and had no children, being succeeded by her nephew, Tar-Minastir, son of her younger brother Isilmo. Her decision to not marry may have been influenced by her great-grandmother's doing so as a matter of policy, not love.

I agree with you, Inziladun, in that an adaptation of the story could point this out:

After all, if not for Aldarion, first as the King's Heir, giving legitimacy and respectability to the Venturers and their Middle-earth voyages, and establishing the first non-Eldarin ports, would it have been possible for the much later defeat of Sauron by Tar-Minastir?

However, I'm inclined to also agree that this could be a possible result of an attempt to film the story:

I can more easily see a chastened Aldarion renouncing his 'toxic masculinity' and foregoing his seafaring, then putting forth Erendis as a much wiser, 'caring' person for Ruling Queen, and then dedicating his life to shepherding and tree-planting.

That already reads like a mess.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

It's true that films with miserable endings have their place, but - even assuming you could get audiences to go for a downer ending in a fantasy movie - I don't feel like it's true to the spirit of Tolkien. With the exceptions of Aldarion and Erendis and The Children of Hurin, all of his substantial stories end with both loss and hope. A&E doesn't have the latter.

Of these two, I think COH has a better possibility of making a good movie. It has a faster-moving storyline. If A&E is to be made into a movie, they'd need to twist some politics plots to keep interest. But the beauty of this movie could be an ending of flashes of scenes, or just text, briefly stating the fates of all the subsequent generations.

The problem with COH is that so many different places and people are involved, and it's hard to introduce all their backgrounds and motivations in a single movie. But if the intended audience is one that is familiar with Beleriand, or certain details are glossed over, it could work out. Really though, I think COH could make a good play. With Glaurung never actually shown, but implied to be there by actors' reactions - like the Giants in many versions of Into The Woods. It's definitely dramatic enough for a play, but maybe a tad long - so perhaps some of Turin's adventures would be cut. I would go see a play like that.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The trouble with Aldarion and Erendis is that it's so unrelentingly bleak.

To contemporary audiences that seems like a positive trait.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The fatal problem with A&E is that it's a relationship story, not an action-adventure at all: a Hallmark Channel costume drama. No battles, no swordfights, no dragons, no magic spells, no shield-surfing or avalanche-climbing. Just people standing around talking about messed-up marriages, convoluted politics, and a made-up religion/cosmology nobody in the audience understands. Kramer vs. Kramer in Numenorean costumes isn't exactly box-office boffo.