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06-14-2018, 11:30 AM | #1 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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The Disaster of the Gladden Fields
This is the first draft of the chapter The Disaster of the Gladden Fields.
Our basis text is that of The Disaster of the Gladden Fields from Unfinished Tales, but I have marked every instance of the text used, so as to be easy to follow. The markings are: FY-HL-xx for all the headlines for the Fading Years. FY-HL-01 is the very title: The Fading Years which I used in the Prelude thread. DGF-SL-xx for all expansions and changes to the narrative. Some conventions of my writing: Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks {example} = text that should be deleted [example] = normalized text, normally only used for general changes, as well as changes which are a part of replacement that is not grammatical. Underlined Text = text changed for grammatical reasons in the process of combining and inserting and removing. <source example> = additions with source information ...... = This section of the paragraph is unchanged from the source. Quote:
DGF-SL-01: This picks up where the story left off at the end of last chapter, and is the perfect opening for the Third Age narrative. DGF-SL-02: This detail should be included here, since it is important later on that we know that Amroth is king of Lorien. I added in [of Lórien] because the sentence as it stood in its original context was already referencing it, but in this context we need to be specific. DGF-SL-03: This information too is needed here, since later in the narrative there is reference to the return of Thranduil's army to the forest. DGF-SL-04: This sets the stage for the narrative going forward, and has more details than the account in Of the Rings of Power. DGF-SL-05: I removed this footnote, since I have pulled this narrative into the main story immediately following, and thus this footnote is now incorrect. I suppose we could argue that The Tale of Cirion and Eorl is an in-universe document and thus is being referenced, so if anyone feels strongly that it should be kept, I suppose there is an argument for that. FY-HL-03: The following insert is from this narrative, so I think we can take the title as well. DGF-SL-06: Here we transition to the Tradition of Isildur text. I removed the first sentence because it is a summary of what we have just said. DGF-SL-07: I moved this footnote from Disaster of the Gladden Fields to here, because in that narrative it was used at the first occurrence of the name Meneldil. However, in our narrative, this here is the first occurrence of the name Meneldil. I marked the place where it is removed later on. FY-HL-03.5: Since we have reached the end of the Tradition of Isildur narrative, I think we need to separate it from the rest of the chapter thus. DGF-SL-08: Here we return to The Disaster of the Gladden Fields text. The 'he' has lost its reference, so I changed it to Isildur. DGF-SL-09: comment of Christopher Tolkien removed. DGF-SL-10: comment of Christopher Tolkien removed. DGF-SL-11: comment of Christopher Tolkien removed. DGF-SL-12: This just marks where I removed the footnote which I moved above. DGF-SL-13: This marker is for the footnote that Fin used in his draft of Sauron Defeated. We may here discuss if it is better to move this to that chapter. DGF-SL-14: The changes made to this footnote stem from the fact that we used most of it in the earlier chapters when talking about Oropher's movements. I have kept some of the information here, but only what is needed to give context to the footnote. DGF-SL-15: This is a name update. Tolkien changed the elvish name of Mirkwood. The rest of the story remains as is until the end, excluding The Sources of the Legend of Isildur's death which I placed in Volume III. |
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06-14-2018, 04:01 PM | #2 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,720
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Everythnig I do not comment on I agree to. And I promis it is not to much I comment on.
FY-HL-01: This was used twice. I suppose the title 'Of the Disaster of the Gladden Fields' was to be marked by FY-HL-02. DGF-SL-01: I think we have to do something on this paragraph. 'and for long the White Tree of the Eldar flowered in the courts of the Kings of Men, for the seedling which he had saved Isildur planted in the citadel of Anor in memory of his brother, ere he departed' is clearly out of sequence. We probabaly would need a bit more of mixing of the source texts we us. LA-SL-16: I think still that the paragraph 'The Ruling Ring passed ... White Tree in memory of his brother Anárion.' should be moved at least in part to the last chapter in The Black Years. As it stands now we jump backward and forward and even reperat facts. I am aware that this is ture in part as well for the original text Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, but our additions increase the distance between the repeations and the strong feeling of more repeation. DGF-SL-07 & DGF-SL-12: What about spliting this note? I would use the genological first part at the first mentioning of Meneldil and from 'He was a man of ...' at its original place. DGF-SL-13 & LA-SL-03: I am still for using this in the chronlogical right possition. That of course does not mean that we should remove the foot note here completly. The first sentence should stay here and even a part of teh second could be repeated. The info abou Elendur should stay here. DGF-SL-14: Here only the author's part of the note was taken. But thus teh follwoing information is lost: 'the ancient Forest Road that led down from the Pass of Imladris and crossed Anduin by a bridge (that had been enlarged and strengthened for the passage of the armies of the Alliance), and so over the eastern valley into the Greenwood. The Anduin could not be bridged at any lower point; for a few miles below the Forest Road the land fell steeply and the river became very swift, until it reached the great basin of the Gladden Fields. Beyond the Fields it quickened again, and was then a great flood fed by many streams, of which the names are forgotten save those of the larger: the Gladden (Sîr Ninglor), Silverlode (Celebrant), and Limlight (Limlaith).' I am not sure where, but we should find a place for this. Respectfully Findegil |
06-14-2018, 05:05 PM | #3 | |||||
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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FY-HL-01: Yes, the first one is just listing the source, my bad.
DGF-SL-01: I am not sure what parts do not work. Is this enough of a change? Quote:
LA-SL-16: Here is my proposal to edit this in the sequence you prefer. For Sauron Defeated I would leave it as you had it, but change the initial 'For' to a 'But' to make it flow better. I also still think that LA-SL-17 should not be included, since it is repeating the information. As for this chapter, I would edit it now thus: Quote:
DGF-SL-07/12: Agreed, this is great. DGF-SL-13/LA-SL-13: Agreed. I would propose a minor edit to each: Quote:
Quote:
DGF-SL-14: Good catch. I think we can insert that information here like so: Quote:
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06-15-2018, 04:48 PM | #4 | |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,720
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DGF-SL-01: Yes that would works, because it refers to the entire Third Age. I would probably have removed the reference to the white tree completely. But it is okay as it is, so it does not do the trick fully for me (see last point in this post).
LA-SL-16, LA-SL-17 & DGF-SL-03.5: Agreed. LA-SL-13 & DGF-SL-13: Yes, that works for me. DGF-SL-16: Okay. I am still not completely satisfied with the structure in this chapter. This might sound a bit radical, but what about this: Quote:
Beside that I added DGF-SL-04.5 and moved DGF-SL-07b to this now first occurrence of Meneldil. Since here he is already named a nephew of Isildur, I changed the note accordingly. Respectfully Findegil |
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06-16-2018, 01:59 PM | #5 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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So are you suggesting that the chapter be called The Tradition of Isildur with The Disaster of the Gladden Fields switching places to become the sub-heading? Or are you saying that they should be separate chapters? If you are saying that they should become separate chapters, then I do not agree. The resulting chapter: The Tradition of Isildur would be far too short, rivaling even our chapter Of the Five Wizards. I think that this makes it somewhat unlikely, and I see no real need to present it in this oddly truncated state. May I ask why you feel the need to rearrange so strongly?
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06-17-2018, 02:04 PM | #6 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,720
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I suggested exactlly the spliting into 2 seperate entitties.
But I can understand your concerns. But in that case I would still say that 'The Tradition of Isildur' is the better title for a combined chapter. The impulse to combine the chapters was fact that at the beginning of 'The Tradition of Isildur' has a very similar passage to that from 'The Rings of Power' that we used directly before. The real important change that I wanted, is DGF-SL-04.5. Respectfully Findegil |
06-17-2018, 03:14 PM | #7 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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Very well, I will agree to switch the chapter name and the sub-heading, and keep your changes.
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12-29-2018, 09:14 AM | #8 | |||
Wight
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 121
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After reading this chapter, I think the decision to change the father and son in the Lost Road section to Isildur and Elendur was the right decision. Getting to know them and their relationship in that chapter strengthens their interactions in this chapter and makes their deaths more tragic. Some comments:
1) Quote:
2) There seem to be a few typos in the text Arcus sent me, or the original text: Quote:
Quote:
3) This is more a question than a comment. At the end of note 20 it says "Nonetheless it proved in the event that the War of the Ring was lost at the Disaster of the Gladden Fields." I don't understand this. The War of the Ring was ultimately a victory. How was the War lost at the Disaster of the Gladden Fields? |
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12-29-2018, 09:38 AM | #9 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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1) This need wallet is mentioned in the following text 'The Sources of the legend of Isildur's death' which I did not include in this chapter because it contains many references to Aragorn and the Fourth Age. However, looking at it again, I think we can include it, or at least part of it. Here is my proposed inclusion:
Quote:
3) I think this is most likely a slip on Tolkien's part, he clearly means the War of the Last Alliance. Last edited by ArcusCalion; 12-29-2018 at 09:52 AM. |
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12-29-2018, 12:09 PM | #10 |
Wight
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 121
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1) I think this section makes sense at the end of the chapter. I see that you added the rest of "The Sources of the legend of Isildur's death" to another chapter, I was actually going to recommend doing just that and removing the chapter from Volume 3.
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12-29-2018, 06:00 PM | #11 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,720
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1) FY-HL-03.5 and DGF-SL-17: Agreed, nice rearangement.
2) Thanks for pointing us to these typos. 3) I think it is meaned out of Sauron's perspective - as it seemes that the report Sauron got from this battle was so week, that he did not compherhend what happen, until the Ring was removed by Deagol and Smeagol and even Saruman had searched the area. So most probably Sauron only learned about Isildur's death through spying on his enemys. Respectfully Findegil |
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