LotR -- Book 2 - Chapter 07 - The Mirror of Galadriel

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Here I am to continue the CbC, as much as it's possible, but it's been a while since I read the chapter, but I could not write on this thread immediately, so let's just see what I can make up. Although this chapter would definitely deserve the most attention it could get, I only hope I will put my observations up in the possible way.

We are still in Lórien, and the chapter begins with the description of Caras Galadhon, which is really described beautifully and I remember I was quite "taken into it" this time. When reading Esty's introduction to this thread, I also remembered that when reading LotR for the first time, the description of the Lord and Lady were probably the first descriptions of characters I cared about in a book. Otherwise, I always used to dislike descriptions, mainly because they were usually long and boring, and that concerned the descriptions of people as well as landscapes (and, I must admit, it largely applied even on LotR on the first reading. However thinking of it... not much. This is probably the book where it started to break - well, sure, because Tolkien's descriptions are brilliant. I can recall only instances like Ettenmoors, Emyn Muil and Mordor where I did not care that much about the description: it seemed "static and dull". But even that does not apply today anymore, of course ).

The dialogue between Galadriel, Celeborn and the Fellowship is also a well-written part, I think Esty well described the difference and the interesting relation of Galadriel to Celeborn ("she is apparently more powerful, yet calls him “the wisest of Elves in Middle-earth and a giver of gifts beyond the power of kings” "). And the whole discussion is crowned by Galadriel's words in the secret Dwarven language to Gimli.

Galadriel herself would require... well, dozens of pages to be written about her. If nothing else, she's one of the best characters in the books, and one of the most significant role, and also one of the important ones, as her influence will drag on into the darkness of Mordor. Tolkien must have been playing on that a reader is going to remember her very, very, very well - more than some Butterbur or even Elrond. And he was right. I think a "star-glass" by Butterbur or Elrond would not seem as significant to the reader in the darkness of Shelob's lair as the "star-glass" of Galadriel.

In any case: However there is not many of female characters in Tolkien's books, I daresay that Galadriel, even if she were alone, would have sufficed as compensation. Thinking about character of a compensable "grade", possibly Gandalf would be something similar.

Speaking of him: The mourning songs for Gandalf and the debate about it brings up the subject of what happened in Moria once more - indeed, as Celeborn asks, I would say with Aragorn - the threat of pursuit at first and the beautiful Lórien completely drove it out of my mind. Here, even the reader is allowed to stop and reflect on the loss of Gandalf, and what it means. As Frodo put it, we don't miss "his fireworks, but his bushy eyebrows, and his quick temper, and his voice." How fitting!

In the chapter, we witness some of Galadriel's "magic". First is the "test" (?) during the debate with the Fellowship. We see a glimpse of something dark inside Boromir in the debate after that. I must confess that I will be really curious what all the Companions were "offered". Especially Merry, whose behavior is very funny in this case

In the Mirror itself, there are interesting views which do not make much sense for a first-time reader, as much as they don't to Frodo and Sam (well, to Sam, maybe some things).

However, the Mirror is probably one of the most impressive scenes in the book (does everyone agree?), I mean particularly the scene AFTER the look into the Mirror, when Frodo offers Galadriel the Ring. Actually, it is not that long time ago (it was on my last reading before this one) when I fully realised the depth of this scene. The power is immense: but I was always orientated on the image of the "Ring-Queen" Galadriel, which is surely strong; however what really knocks me out, and even more, is when Galadriel actually refuses the power! That's such a strong moment! And here we see what actually makes Galadriel being Galadriel: because she "will remain Galadriel", by refusing the Ring. What more, she is well aware of what the Ring would cause and bring her (she cathegorically refuses - this is exponed by the last words of the chapter: "We will not speak more of it. Let us go!"). Taken from a perspective of someone who came to Middle-Earth three ages ago with the hope of building up an own kingdom for herself, her life-story is really interesting: finally, when "a land of her own" came at last, it was just Lórien: a pretty small and insignificant place. And more, it was by the time Galadriel did not in fact even desire it that much anymore (and she did not titulate herself as "Queen of Lórien" but just "Lady", the same goes for Celeborn - see the UT) and her "rulership" of it showed to be mainly the responsibility for the lives of those who lived there. And once again, her wish, or at least thought to come close to the Ring really came to her (she admits she has been thinking often what she would do if that happened!), and when it came, she refused it. Hard to explain, but I am just deeply influenced by this. And the impressivity of her character and tale is given also by that.

[Formendacil]

Fascinating thread to read in its own right, especially the commentary about the characters of Galadriel and Celeborn.

About Celeborn, who is described as the wisest of the Elves of Middle-earth, I have no deep commentary to offer, only the jesting suggestion that maybe Galadriel is offering a joke herself--that wisdom in a husband is listening to her wife.

Actually, while I have no conclusions to offer, I do wonder about Celeborn the Wise, both in light of the contrast with Galadriel here and in the light of his eventual decision not to take to the ships with her immediately. Is her statement here a form of prophecy: Celeborn will be the wisest Elf in Middle-earth once everyone else leaves? Certainly, by contrast with the other Elf-kings he shares an archetype with (Thingol, Thranduil especially), he comes across quite positively. He also may lack the keen insight of Galadriel, but there's also a sense that he lacks her closeness to temptation--we never see him desiring the Ring, and it certainly seems that the realm-seeking he shares with Galadriel was HER desire, rather than his.

As to Galadriel... well, I *do* have some thoughts there, specifically about her relationship with the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The basics of my thought here is that Mary should only be considered PART of the influence on Galadriel--and I don't think it was the first influence. The approach of the plot into Lórien is very much modelled on adventures into Fäerie ("it IS perilous," as Aragorn affirms) and Galadriel seems to start as a type of the Fäerie Queen--like the Lady in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, she is a test for the hero(es).

This test culminates in the Mirror scene, where Tolkien brilliantly turns her from an impassive Lady to a character in her own right by being tested herself. This is suggested, I think, by the Ring. The Ring *must* be sent to the Fires, it can't be offered to someone More Pure (TM) than Frodo, and it is Pure Evil--it tests even Gandalf. Once this thought occurs to Tolkien, Galadriel becomes the most fascinating Elf in The Lord of the Rings--approriately enough, she becomes truly First Age in her complexity.

I think it is only after she passes this test (an abegnation of her own will that DOES recall, in a more melancholy way, Mary's Fiat) that Tolkien starts to associate her with the Virgin Mary. The gift-giving is a traditional element brought in from other literature, but the gift of lembas is one that even Tolkien admits has Eucharistic influences--and once you have a queen gifting you the Eucharist, you definitely have a Marian figure.

This also explains, if it has any validity, why Galadriel's backstory seems to become purer and holier as Tolkien's life goes on: he's remembering the post-mirror Galadriel more and more, the Galadriel who continues to be an important figure in the story for Frodo and Sam--and the others--obscuring ever more the pre-Mirror Lady of the Wood. The thunder-clap in the middle, however, is the true genius--and the reason Galadriel gets grafted onto the House of Finwë.

[Boromir88]

This CBC has spurred a lot of discussion and it's no surprise, because after reading it again there is much for anyone to ponder.

Pippin's curiosity again. In the previous chapter he asks Sam what he saw when Gimli led him and Frodo to Mirrormere.. This chapter he asks Sam what happened between him and Galadriel's gaze. It's not at all surprising when Pippin is drawn to look into the palantir.

Sam is the only one who is open in revealing what Galadriel's test was, and it's clear she is acting as the Ring in her testing of the Fellowship. Sam's tempted by having a nice bit of garden.

It's pretty easy to guess what the test for Boromir was, and he makes an interesting statement about it: "what she pretended to have the power to give." I think Boromir is correct in that statement, but it would be accurate to say the same of the Ring, and unfortunately Boromir does not perceive the deceit of the Ring, as he perceived Galadriel's deceitful testing.

We're left wondering what Merry and Pippin's tests were, and I think as I continue in this reread it will be revealed. Considering the tests that were revealed in this chapter, we know Sam speaks true of his test, Boromir doesn't say what his test was but he doesn't have to, Frodo's test is to give the Ring to someone else...we will be able to figure out what Merry and Pippin's tests were at some point.

I'm thinking about if Frodo had not accepted to be the Ring-bearer, what was Elrond and Gandalf's plan B? Was it possibly Merry as the Ring-bearer? I think he is the closest representation to Frodo, and after all he was attacked by the Nazgul before Frodo. Merry got a taste of the evil and danger of the Nazgul before Frodo. You could also say Pippin is to Merry's "Sam." I don't mean as the same social status, but just the similar friendship and roles they play.

The similarities between the Mirror and the palantir:

"Many things I can command the Mirror to reveal," she answered. "and to some I can show what they desire to see. But the Mirror will also show things unbidden, and those are often stranger and more profitable than things which we wish to behold. What you will see, if you leave the Mirror free to work, I cannot tell. For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet may be. But which it is that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell. Do you wish to look?"

This got me thinking of Sauron's use the Palantir to corrupt and deceive Saruman and Denethor. Galadriel says she can command the Mirror to reveal many things, but if the viewer leaves the Mirror free to work, then she cannot tell what the viewer will see. Sauron's will can command the palantir to reveal what he wants it to to Denethor and Saruman. But then we have Aragorn with the "right" and "will" to command what he wants it to reveal to Sauron.

This chapter really sets it up that Galadriel, even more so than Elrond or Gandalf, is the counter to Sauron. She has a viewing device that she could have used to bend the viewers to do her will. Sam was ready to abandon everything and run back to the Shire that very instant after looking in the Mirror. Galadriel stops him and says to look is both good and perilous and..."Some never come to be, unless those that behold the visions turn aside from their path to prevent them."

Galadriel has her test where she is offered the Ring. And I think this is the first time in the book the "Eye of Sauron" isn't just used as a metaphor, but becomes a vision of "the Eye" in the Mirror. Galadriel's impact and aid later in Mordor makes all the sense. Sauron and Galadriel, the two most powerful beings in Middle-earth and there's the slightest of differences which makes Galadriel the "good force's" counter to Sauron's evil force. But, also the frightening reminder that Galadriel could have been Sauron had she not passed the test:

..."I wish you'd take his Ring. You'd put things to rights. You'd stop them digging up the Gaffer and turning him adrift. You'd make some folk pay for their dirty work."

"I would," she said. "That is how it would begin. But it would not stop with that, alas! We will not speak more of it. Let us go!"

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

We're left wondering what Merry and Pippin's tests were, and I think as I continue in this reread it will be revealed. Considering the tests that were revealed in this chapter, we know Sam speaks true of his test, Boromir doesn't say what his test was but he doesn't have to, Frodo's test is to give the Ring to someone else...we will be able to figure out what Merry and Pippin's tests were at some point.

We also can presume Aragorn's test, because his wish comes true at the end of ROTK.

I think Pippin's test would have appealed to his sense of inferiority. He's always the goof in the group, the Fool of a Took, the overly curious one, the one to blurt things out, not to use his head, the young hobbit who knows himself that his real worth and input to the quest is at most as an amusing company. (Remind you of anyone? ) He's cheerful enough not to take that to heart, but he also doesn't have many illusions about it. So I thought that if he could be tempted by something, it's to be better, to be respected, admired. "So what if you are the youngest in the company - you are clever! If you take the Ring [or betray your friends in a different manner], everyone will realize your worth!"

Merry is more balanced and reserved of a personality, so not so easy to tip and not so easy to guess which way to push.

I was more curious about Gimli and Legolas' tests. Supposedly Gimli could have been promised a great Dwarven kingdom that would outshine Moria - or something to that extent, caverns jewels and forges, playing on typical Dwarf values. We know Gimli to be an admirer of said things, as we see in Moria and the Caves of Aglarond and in flashes throughout the story; yet he can curb his desire so that it is love rather than greed. And he would never choose Dwarven treasure over betrayal - it's the joy of his life but he is never greedy for it. I have a brief flashback here to his conversation with Elrond at the departure of the Fellowship. Gimli was all for swearing an oath to strengthen the weak will - and I imagine in moments like this he reminds himself that while not formally bound by an oath to accommodate for changes en-route, he is nonetheless bound by honour, as if he swore.

Legolas though - we barely know anything about Legolas. What could possibly tempt him? Tempt him sufficiently to make him seriously consider abandoning the quest?