LotR1-FotR-Seq13

[alatar]

You cannot step into the same river twice. - Heraclitus

We get a click glimpse of where the Silverlode joins the Anduin, then more close and wide shots of the river and surrounding greenery. Great scenery shots, and I appreciate that, in PJ's movie, we're not always on a set or in a CG world. Note that that’s not the actors in the wide shots, but you probably already guessed that. Having done some canoeing and whitewater myself, I would enjoy such a trip.

Except when pursued by orcs.

The music and current pick up, and our brief floating moment has passed. There are quick shots of the boats and the orcs, seemingly racing, and even the camera is moving more quickly. Legolas’s keen sight (or sense) picks up something, and he and an orc share a moment. Boromir and Aragorn begin to feel the pursuit, and they hasten with their paddles.

Did you notice that the leader orc (Lurtz?) has a small mouth? How does such a predatory creature eat? It just doesn’t look right on such massive creature. Anyway…

At night, the boats are beached and the eight floaters make camp.

Boromir watched the creature Gollum drift by on a log. Aragorn lets us know that Gollum has been pursuing them since Moria – but then again, who hasn’t? But that's just a little tease, as we never get to see Gollum in this film. Boromir worries about this new threat. Sam is concerned about Frodo, who hasn’t eaten much lately. Upset stomach due to the boating, or a major decision involving the fate of the world – and more importantly Sam – festering in the belly?

Leaving Sam, who by love and oath swears to take care of him, would make anyone ill at ease.

Boromir steps up to bat for Minas Tirith, and you hear the darkness winning in his voice. Striking out fresh from Minas Tirith is a really weak argument, especially with Aragorn. Hadn’t they been in the presence of the Wise and Wonderful, yet none of these beings could provide more than a few parting gifts? What aid could Denethor provide that Elrond or Galadriel could not, except for a recipe for Roast Faramir ? Boromir notes that Aragorn trusted the elves yet not his own kin. Hmmm…and just what wonderful examples of the race have we seen? Isildur? Aragorn? And now, lastly, Boromir? Do I need to list out each man's stellar points?

I like when Boromir grabs Aragorn and throws his life back in his face. Some leader who shirks his duty and has lain hidden in the shadows. Think about PJ’s Aragorn – I assume that he was sent to Bree by Gandalf, though this wasn’t stated. As tour guide, he gets the Hobbits from Bree to Rivendell, but besides fighting off the Nazgul, what else has he done? Aragorn joins the Fellowship, but so did Pip, so what does that get you?

After the real leader, Gandalf, dies in Moria, Aragorn returns to his role as tour guide, but again I see no leader of men. So Boromir’s derision is well-founded, and I can understand that, lacking any better ideas, that Boromir thinks that the Ring should stop off at the White City – it’s been everywhere else.

Surely these and other thought scream inside Boromir’s head as he travels down the Anduin to the doom that awaits him. More great scenery, then the Argonath. Somewhat impressive, but not exactly what I had expected. And didn’t the two statures bear different weapons than were depicted? And I would have liked Aragorn becoming more kingly…or whatever than to have the focus on bigatures or CG statures. We get the movie poster shot while Aragorn quotes the text. Is this his epiphany moment? Do these statures turn him to the kingship path?

Boromir’s smile shows that he’s coming home. Merry’s smile’s from Disneyland.

The shots fore and aft of the elven boats establish where we are, relative to the Rauros falls and Argonath well. The boats touch the western shore, and things go ill from there. Boromir, before even leaving his boat, has some type of attack, and as we flip back and forth from him and Frodo, I’m guessing that the attack has something to do with the Ring.

Boromir is being tortured.

Aragorn states that the troop will cross the lake at nightfall. Interesting that a lake with a river attached to both ends is considered a lake. Mordor will be entered from the north. Does Aragorn mean to take them to the Black Gate? Gimli gives Aragorn - and us - the lowdown on what the travel will be like. Rocks, fens, - it won't be a walk in the Shire, to be sure. Gimli sure knows his way around the east side of the river. What a well-traveled dwarf! Wasn't Gimli the one who had suggested Moria?

Leader Aragorn mocks the stout dwarf while Legolas gives us the west side story. Aragorn won't listen to the spider sense of his one real friend and worshiper on this journey. I picked the road and we're sticking to it!

Where's Frodo gone?

And Boromir is gone too, and he left his shield behind. Achilles exposes his heel. Trouble will come of this.

Frodo aimlessly explores the ruins on the hillside, pausing in the gaze of a once great statue. Boromir reminds Frodo that the wilderness isn't a safe place, and that only he can prevent forest fires or something. Frodo, spellbound or knowing what is to come, doesn't respond to Boromir, who actually seems concerned. Boromir starts again to press his case, and the movement of the two - Frodo retreating while Boromir approaches - underscores the dialogue. The battle's already begun, and we only wait for the gloves to come off.

Boromir asks not to be a Ring Lord but to save his people, who all will surely die short of some miracle such as the Ring. The madness grows in Boromir as he continues to barter for the Ring. Each moment, each breath ups the ante until he completely loses control.

The gloves are off. Frodo is tackled and Boromir tries to wrest the Ring from his neck. Then Frodo disappears and, before leaving, gives Boromir one last parting shot. The madness continues. The curses begin, then, tripping, struck down by his own curse as it were, Boromir regains himself.

An addict without the fix. Like a werewolf the morning after the full moon, Boromir realizes what he's done and is sick with it. Afraid, too, as he knows that the Ring addiction is still within, and he begs forgiveness. But as someone in this forum noted, forgiveness must be followed with some kind of sacrifice, and the usual would be to spill blood.

And that will happen.

Meanwhile, in the blurry wind machine, Frodo climbs the hill to sit atop Amon Hen. The way he sits in the chair/throne makes it appear that he's trying to find some quiet place, somewhere out of the wind. Then he spots the T-Rex (Roar!) Eye-Spotlight that is Sauron. The Eye is very close, and I can't help but remember the Far Side comic that simply stated that "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear."

Luckily - there's that hand of fate again - Frodo trips backwards off a ledge while removing the Ring. Thud. He's back in our world, and the Eye is gone for now. But it's been noted that the Orc that you hear is worse than the Eye that you fear, and Frodo better listen sharp.

There's a foot! Is it Lurtz', like we saw previously? Aragorn arrives and starts asking questions rather gruffly. Frodo runs from this man too - big man with sword asks about the Ring = run! But Aragorn tries to placate the frightened hobbit, and then realizes the real issue. You can see it on Viggo's face where he thinks, "Hmm, didn't see it like that."

I like Aragorn/Viggo here, as noted by another member, he has to portray some emotions just with his face. Aragorn sees the Ring and is troubled. It calls to him too, and it's then that Aragorn knows the temptation of Isildur. Frodo's opened hand may indicate that he might offer the Ring to Aragorn. The Ring's siren song sings of a kingship (and the bonus of an elven wife...).

Then he closes Frodo's hands (and we get a shot of the Ring of Barahir), and tells Frodo that he would have gone with him, but knows now that he cannot. Though not like the book, PJ did well here. I can feel for Aragorn and Frodo as their fellowship starts to break.

Frodo is leaving the Fellowship to protect those that he loves.

Note that I actually like (now) PJ’s changes to the breaking of the Fellowship. Instead of just running off, Frodo lets the rest of the FotR know why he has to do it alone, in order to save them from Boromir’s fate. They, in turn, understand that though they may help his escape, that they cannot go with him. I’m cool with the changes. And that’s all I got to say about that.

Back to the action.

Warning! Very clever of PJ to use the glow of Sting to start the action. It is a little interesting that not only did Sting indicate the proximity of orcs, but it also notes from which direction that they would approach. Cool that.

Now, just a quick note before the chopping starts. My friend, a stranger to the books, wanted to know why Aragorn could take on 100+ orcs and not be immediately overwhelmed. He thought that it was a little ridiculous. My counter was that the orcs were hatched, not born and breed, and so had little to no sword/fighting training or experience. Was that why PJ birth them such? On the other side, Aragorn has been fighting orcs and other dark siders for countless years. Plus his sword is cooler.

As this is an action movie and he is the hero, Aragorn has at least a five-to-one advantage.

Aragorn salutes, supposedly his sword, and then the games begin. Sit back, as for the next few minutes, we get a lot of hack and slash. It’s cool. While Aragorn starts chopping away at the orcs, Sam continues his search for his master.

Lurtz interjects with a subtle reminder about the mission’s real goal: Find and capture Halflings!

“Elendil” cries Aragorn as he jumps atop more orcs. Gimli and Legolas show up, and we’re treated to even more martial artistry. Legolas shoots the orcs with arrows, and it was nice to see Gimli throw an axe – just for something different. Legolas shoots two Uruks with one arrow, and as that’s not enough for moreMoreMORE PJ, Legolas next stabs an orc with an arrow. That reminds me of the scene in that esteemed classic, “Hot Shots: Part Deux” where Charlie Sheen, doing the usual Rambo thing, simply grabs a handful of bullets and throws them at the enemy, and these are just as effective as when shot from a gun.

The Uruks pursue Frodo down the hill. Aragorn flanks them and buys Frodo some time. Frodo hides, and luckily enough, right across the way is Merry and Pippin, who are also hiding. The two ask cousin Frodo to join them, and get an answer that they did not expect. Pip doesn’t accept Frodo’s decision, and so he jumps from hiding. The Uruks, in sync, home in on this suddenly appearing prize. Merry, thinking of Frodo and not himself, unlike Pip, decides to distract the orcs to permit Frodo to escape. Frodo heads down towards the boats while Pip and Merry run from the crowd of orcs. More orcs appear in front of them, still more following, and so Merry and Pip are in a bad way. Boromir returns to redeem himself, and we finally get to see him in action (can’t remember much from the Mazarbul fight). As Boromir fights the orcs, Merry and Pippin chip in as best they can. At least they aren’t helpless and awaiting ‘saving’. Meanwhile, while Aragorn slow dances with an Uruk, Legolas litters the hillside with the arrow-slain. Note that the arrows are CG, and Orlando Bloom simply had to supply the arm/hand motion.

The Steward’s son’s horn! Boromir is in trouble.

Not only does the horn of Gondor alert the members of the fellowship that Boromir is in need, it also seems to be some sort of attractant for the Uruks as well. The overhead shot of the downhill race is a nice break from the usual eye-level shots. All of the members of the fellowship, sans Frodo and Sam, are dispatching orcs as fast as they come, yet there seems to be no end to them. Merry and Pippin slay the goliaths with well-thrown rocks, and that’s a little over the top.

Lurtz, taking his good ole time, finally arrives. Interesting head and ‘doo.

The arrow that hits Boromir thuds with pain. Ouch! He falters in sight of a statue, and surely someone can attribute some meaning to the figure in the background. A priest, perhaps?

But Boromir’s not done yet. Another arrow pierces his chest while he continues to defend the two hobbits. Kneeing, Boromir looks on at Merry and Pippin, then continues the fight.

I shed my blood, every drop of my life, yet its spilling will not be cheap.

The third arrow arrives and pushes Boromir backwards. The musical score, coupled with the acting of Sean Bean, make for a difficult scene to view. Boromir, again on his knees, may not rise again. Merry and pippin, witness to the sacrifice, attempt to help defend Boromir, drawing their swords. The Uruks grab them up like small dolls and begin to retreat, their primary mission accomplished. Boromir is all but ignored, and maybe that hurts him too. Can help arrive in time to save the Steward’s son?

William ‘Lurtz’ Tell, however, decides that there’s a few minutes available for a little sport on this trip.

Boromir, though not too defiant, does not whimper or cry. Luckily, Lurtz’ arrow goes wide as Aragorn takes him down. A fight ensues, and Viggo states that Lawrence Makoare, the stunt person playing Lurtz, was not able to see well and so did not always pull his punches. Viggo may have retaliated in kind. It’s a visceral fight, with knives and swords and kicks and punches, and looks real as if you were fighting thus, you would use whatever you could to finish the job. But in the end, the better swordsman wins, and in true Númenórean fashion, takes a head. At least Aragorn looks like he just fought a bunch of orcs and isn’t all pristine and primped.

He rushes to Boromir, who now lies prone on the ground. Boromir still tries to help, giving Aragorn what information that he can. The Steward’s son asks of Frodo, which is a tip off as to which “little ones” were carried away. Boromir also confesses his sin, asks forgiveness and begins to despair. Aragorn tries to give him hope, promises to defend the White City and actually admits that he’s a human.

Boromir’s last words are touching, and you can see the effect that they have on Aragorn. Great scene, and I commend the actors along with everyone else. Heartfelt, informative, plot-driving, shot well – very good.

Aragorn, upset over his new brother’s death, salutes him and kisses his brow. Touching, and I’m glad as it was shown thus as a counter to the usual stuff in action flicks. Aragorn and Boromir can kill hundreds of orcs and other baddies, yet still remain real men with feelings and tears. No stupid one-liner jokes. You see and feel the loss.

Not exactly sure why Aragorn felt nothing for Gandalf, but…

Frodo, standing on the shore of the Anduin, continues to ‘screw himself up’ to the task. Sam, not finding Frodo, searches anxiously for his master. The Ring lays open upon Frodo’s palm, and again the visualization shows the indecision. Claim the quest or leave it? The words of Gandalf, spoken in Moria, come rushing back. Tears flow from Frodo’s eyes, and here I don’t see him as whiny but just wishing that the cup would pass from him.

He clasps the Ring, and so the decision has been made - to strike out towards Mount Doom alone. He’s hurried, and I think that that shows he wants to get away before doubts return. Sam finally finds his master and pursues him even into the water.

Love will out.

Sam drowns, sees a light and then is rescued by Frodo. The dripping Sam states that he made a promise, and that it is important that he keep it. Frodo’s tears of both joy and pain are seen. Joy for the companionship and love, pain for the tortuous road which Sam will walk with him. Two more ‘brothers’ hug, and it is acts such as this which will ultimately defeat the enemy.

Boromir is laid to rest in a boat, and his body will be committed to the falls of Rauros. The swords of his vanquished foes were omitted from the boat, but that would have just cluttered things up. Legolas means to catch up with Frodo and Sam, but Aragorn stops him. Frodo is on his own, for everyone’s good. Gimli starts whining about the needless effort, but Aragorn says that as long as some of them stay true to each other, well, that’s close enough for a win.

He decides that they will hunt the Uruks that took Merry and Pippin, knowing that Frodo and Sam will have to complete the real quest by themselves. They get ready for the journey, leaving all that can be spared behind, and I think that this means things like good taste, meaningful and thoughtful scenes for Gimli, Legolas’s second and third dimensions, etc.

They start the chase with, “Let us hunt some Orc.” I just don’t like the way that Aragorn says the word ‘orc’ and this dislike will reoccur when his intonation gets a bit nasally. I assume that Legolas and Gimli are happy now that the Three have a purpose and goal - no more foundering on the waters of Anduin, hoping that something will help them decide to turn either East or West (not that that really ever came up). They run off, and the next time that we see them, they’ll still be running. Too bad that that’s the only continuity with the first film…

Frodo and Sam overlook the Emyn Muil - a harsh place - but at least they will have each other to share the journey. Sam’s optimism buoys Frodo’s melancholy, and so they start off towards Mordor.

I love Enya’s “May it be,” as it is both full of hope and sadness, a fitting ending to this film.

At this point in the theater my wife started asking, “What happens next? What do you mean that I have to wait a whole year for part two?!?”

Thanks to all, and see you in the TTT SbS.

[Boromir88]

But as someone in this forum noted, forgiveness must be followed with some kind of sacrifice, and the usual would be to spill blood.

I think that was me. Boromir's death seems to mimic the Anglo-Saxon Laws of Compensation.

This is mainly going to seem like a regurgitation of what you have said alatar, because these scenes were done absolutely wonderfully by Jackson and crew. It made a nice wrap up to the Fellowship and brought a good movie to a close while setting up for the next movie.

I'm going to start down the Anduin. I love these camera shots a lot of them are high angle shots looking down as if they're being watched. Then once the Orcs are on their trail the music picks up, there's several quick shots of the Fellowship nervously looking around. A big change from the beginning when they first depart from Lorien, a slow, somber move down the River as it seems the Fellowship is having trouble leaving Lorien. They're just kind of slowly floating down the river remembering their gifts and their stay in Lorien. But, as time progresses the Uruk-hai are on their tails and everything picks up. The Chase begins! I love these scenes down the Anduin. Not much action, but the mood changes from a slow, somberness, to quicken up and pick up the pace.

I love how the Extended Edition added in the little quarrel with Boromir and Aragorn. To kind of continue the discussion from last thread. Boromir is looking for a solution to save Gondor. In the books, from the beginning Boromir accepts Aragorn coming to Minas Tirith (or atleast Anduril, not so much Aragorn). Boromir shows content for having Anduril return to Gondor and perhaps serve as a weapon against Sauron. Though he's still not too thrilled about Aragorn. The movies it takes a little longer but he begins to see Aragorn as a friend, and wants him to come to Minas Tirith. Though certainly Boromir is wrong about taking the ring to Minas Tirith, very very bad move, Boromir does bring up a good point against Aragorn in that he doesn't trust his own people. I think here Boromir is trying to get Aragorn to step up and accept his "fate." This added "quarrel" only makes the last scene between the two more clear when Aragorn says:

"I will not let the White City fall, nor OUR people fail."

This is crucial as I think it's the first time Aragorn really steps out and accepts what he has to do. Before anytime Boromir says Minas Aragorn screams "No!" But, this is the first big change in Aragorn and I don't see it as Aragorn just saying it to trying to comfort Boromir and give him a happy ending, but Aragorn stepping up and making an oath (one of those important oaths Fordim did threads on a while back). Not only an oath, but an oath to a dying man promising him that he won't fail OUR people. I think it's that right there where Boromir sees Aragorn not just as his equal, but as his King. Aragorn for the first time has stepped up and accepted his path.

Now Jackson definitely adds to this final scene between Boromir and Aragorn, but I think it's a good thing. Tolkien's not as strong with it, what I mean is Boromir doesn't call Aragorn his King, and Aragorn doesn't say "our people," but when we get to the nitty-gritty the fact remains the same. Boromir bestows on Aragorn the challenge of saving his people, and Aragorn accepts this and says Minas Tirith will not fall. It still remains that Aragorn pledged to Boromir and as Faramir tells us:

"...he died well, acheiving some good thing. His face was more beautiful even than in life."

So, it still remains the same in that when we get to the bottom of it Boromir doesn't want the ring for selfish power. He wanted an answer to save his country, and he saw the Ring in that answer. When he comes to realize what he did, he now sees Aragorn as the answer and Aragorn steps out and makes one of them oaths to Boromir.

Well I'm done ranting about Boromir, some other things in this sequence.

We have a little Gimli humor in this scene, but again I'm not annoyed by it. I chuckled at the comments exchanged between Aragorn and Gimli. It was funny, but I didn't lose sight of who Gimli was, as I do once we get into TTT and ROTK.

Also, I liked how Jackson concluded the movie. "Let's hunt some orc" is rather corny, but I think it works. It closes up the story, and sets up for the next movie. The Fellowship HAS not ended, it has only begun, now they must go after and save their friends. While Frodo must set off (with of course Sam) to Mordor.

I also like the little flashback Frodo has of Gandalf. This works wonderfully. Frodo is at a cross-roads, he knows what he has to do, but he needs something to propel him to do it. Boromir gives him a good reason to, of course, but that's still not enough, and so this memory of Gandalf giving some great advice:

"So, do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time it is given to you."

There's a little hint about higher powers, and not being in control of everything, but also one is in control of what happens. Gandalf here hints at fate "but that is not for them to decide..." Frodo didn't decide to come across the Ring, Bilbo didn't decide, it happened, it was "ment to happen." But, what Frodo does have to do is HE has to make the choice about what to do with the Ring, and he alone. So, eventhough it was some sort of fate that led Frodo (and Bilbo) to the ring, ultimately they have the choice of what to do with it. Just as Isildur was faced with the choice and he decided to take it.

These are probbably my favorite scenes from this first movie (maybe even the trilogy, I'll have to think about that), as all of it was done extremely well. Acted well, directed well, played out well, the whole bag of marbles.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

There was so much I loved here but I'm not going to repeat what has already been said.

What I can add is that I think there was too much fechtin'. I didn't like the superhero 'Gorn, Legolas and Gimli because their exploits only make the Uruks look weak. Neither am I sure about the merits of including this new character, 'Lurtz'. I would have preferred it had Ugluk been in charge and had not died. I think the beheading of Lurtz by Aragorn while Boromir was dying is inappropriate, and seems to have been included to elicit a cheer from the movie audience.

I'd rather there was no fight between Aragorn and Lurtz and, instead, Aragorn had just found Boromir as he was dying.

A small quibble, though. Loved the end of the first film.

[alatar]

I would agree with Eomer of the Rohirrim regarding this last sequence. Haven't had the time to count the fetched by Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli, but the number is a bit high. At least Aragorn, after his bout with Lurtz, looks like he was in a fight (Gimli gets dirty from falling down, as we will see in TTT).

Remember that there was some concern about having a 'Lurtz,' but as this name is just an easier way to designate "the orc formerly known as Saruman's troop leader," I wasn't too put off by that. Having another Tolkien-named orc would change the story a bit, especially if this headless orc were to have some part in TTT, and surely PJ wouldn't want to tamper with the text . I think that PJ wanted to have a 'boss' for Aragorn to fight, and Lurtz the UberUruk was it.

Aragorn, as noted, even here goes with the headchopping, as we'd also seen in the Battle at Mazarbul. What's up with PJ with that? Is there no other way to vanquish a stout foe other than to 'unburden his shoulders?'

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Boromir's death was not in FotR, but placed there by PJ. It makes perfect sense to me, as it was a great way to end the movie and waiting over a year to find Boromir's perforated body wouldn't have the same emotional impact as seeing it here, after traveling with him for over an hour. The FotR ending allows for more possibilities for starting The Two Towers, as the Three Hunters are on the move and Frodo and Sam have started their journey to Mordor.

No thread was left untied.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Aragorn, as noted, even here goes with the headchopping, as we'd also seen in the Battle at Mazarbul. What's up with PJ with that? Is there no other way to vanquish a stout foe other than to 'unburden his shoulders?'

Perhaps he saw Highlander one too many times.

And as I have observed elsewhere, one of the more
irritating (albeit minor) changes by PJ and Co.
was their putting in "Let's hunt orcs!"
In place of

With hope or without hope we will follow the trail of our enemies. 'And woe to them, if we prove the swifter! We will make such a chase as shall be accounted a marvel among the Three Kindreds: Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Forth the Three Hunters!

Or even just

We will make such a chase as shall be accounted a marvel among the Three Kindreds: Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Forth the Three Hunters!

With, if necessary, followed by "Let's hunt orcs."

[Elladan and Elrohir]

This is my favorite sequence in the film by far, and one of the best in any of the movies.

Actually, I was more irritated at Aragorn taking so long to kill Lurtz than that 'Gorn, Leggy, and Gimmy killed so many Uruks. But maybe I'm in the wrong. The way I see it, the average Uruk ought to be about on the level of a sturdy man of Gondor or Rohan. Maybe a little higher. So I don't see any reason why the gruesome, uh, threesome shouldn't eat their lunch. Although, I must agree that considering how much PJ builds up the Uruks in the film, viewers may think, "Well, dude, they're falling just like the regular orcs in Moria! They're nothing special."

Boromir's death is absolutely awesome, and yes alatar, no doubt it was the right decision to put in this film. IMHO, Viggo matches Sean shot for shot acting-wise, although Sean does have the advantage of being the one who's dying. Both of them are great actors, and they play that scene magnificently. Although I do kind of get a little thrown off by the whole disappearing-and-reappearing-hand-on-Aragorn's-shoulder thing. But other than that...

Frodo and Sam's last big scene is also brilliantly scripted and acted. The Gandalf flashback (which actually isn't a flashback since Gandalf changes it to "all YOU have to decide is what to do with the time that is given YOU") is perfect, and cements my conviction that Ian McKellen should've won an Oscar for his performance.

Interesting that Edward Ross' solo "In Dreams" is included on "The Breaking of the Fellowship" track on the soundtrack, but it's not in its place in the film. Pity, because it's a great solo, putting words to the beloved Shire theme. Was this done so that Enya could get the Best Original Song Oscar?

[Essex]

A few things

Boromir88 - re

'Though he's still not too thrilled about Aragorn.'

that's putting it lightly! Book wise, have a think about LOTR from the Council on to the end of boromir's life - concentrate on boromir and aragorn's relationship. There is real animosity and anger between the two throughout - arguments ensue - either man trying to outdo the other, and only sometimes working together as a team (ie making the path in the snow) - I only realised this animosity after quite a few readings of the book. I'm not sure if anyone else has the same viewpoint of their animosity towards each other.


It's 'Let us hunt some orc' - not 'let's hunt some orc' - the latter would seem rather crass to me - but the former, uses archaic language - and is pretty much taken from aragorn's words to eomer 'I am hunting Orcs' - so it's OK with me. I know this sounds a small point, but to me it does make the sentence, and it's sentiments, tie in more with Tolkien's world.

I've only just finished reading lotr for the umpteenth time, and have finally come to realise Aragorn's decision to leave Frodo (in the books). It's exactly the same reason that Gandalf leaves the WK and saves Faramir. BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE ELSE TO SAVE HIM SO I MUST. But evil will come of it. Aragorn HAS to follow Merry and Pippin to save them, because no one else could.

But I think Jackson's change to the plot that Aragorn let's Frodo go works well.

The scene where we see araogrn and co (and the orcs) respond to boromir's call is amazing - one of the best put together shots of the movie, the camera folowing the orcs down the hill as it sweeps through the trees. marvelous.

I'm not into 'inconsistency' failures in Films that people love finding - u know, like bormoir's arm being on araogrn's shoulder when he dies in one shot, then not in another - that doesn't bother me - but one thing that DOES (and I don't know why!) is the tear tract on Frodo's face that is in the wrong order - something simple that i noticed the first time i saw the film - why they didn't spot it I don't know.

But wood's acting here is marvelous. I think Jackson, as a director, can get so much from his actors with just a LOOK. You can se this throughout the 3 movies and with numeorous actors.

Does anyone else wince when you see Sam run into the river after seing what happened to sean astin's foot when he went in the first time on the extras dvd?

anyway, a brilliant end to a brilliant movie.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Alatar, I think you misunderstand me. I was not referring to the Orc carcasses fetched by the three Heroes; I was using the Scots' word for 'fighting'—fechtin'.

Though it kind of works!

Did having the death of Boromir in the Fellowship actually improve on the book? I always thought the end of the first book was slightly anticlimactic, and I can't really imagine reading it and then waiting another 6 months or a year or however long it was until Two Towers came out.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Alatar, I think you misunderstand me. I was not referring to the Orc carcasses fetched by the three Heroes; I was using the Scots' word for 'fighting'—fechtin'.

Though it kind of works!

Sorry. I just liked that use of the word so much that it clouded my perceiving it otherwise ("I will fetch thee if thou touches him...").

Did having the death of Boromir in the Fellowship actually improve on the book? I always thought the end of the first book was slightly anticlimactic, and I can't really imagine reading it and then waiting another 6 months or a year or however long it was until Two Towers came out.

I would think that this is one of PJ's actual improvements on the text - not that Tolkien wanted three different books, as LotR is one story. Movie-wise, great ending.

[Lathriel]

One of my favourite parts of this sequence are the Argonath. I really like the way they are done, and you really get a sense of history.
Another thing I really appreciate about these movies is that so much effort was put in finding the right location and that the scenery does't only act as background.
Boromir's death scene is really touching and I like how Gandalf's voice comes back to Frodo when he has to make a desicion.
It is also neat how the end of the movie shows just a little bit of Emyn Muil and as a viewer you hope that they will show you more but then the movie ends and you have to wait another year.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lathriel

One of my favourite parts of this sequence are the Argonath. I really like the way they are done, and you really get a sense of history.

What did you like specifically about the Argonath? Were you comfortable with the changes from the book? I was a little put off by the brick/block work, as I assumed that they were carved and not 'assembled.'

[Lathriel]

About the Argonath

I myself hadn't seen them that big in my imagination but I didn't mind the size. I liked how WETA added to the scale persepective of the statues by having some birds fly by.
It is also neat how they hold out their hands as if they want to keep the enemies out. It really is a strong symbol of Gondor in its glory days but now it is ironic since the orcs passed them without any trouble.
However, these statues also represent Gondor's longing to stay strong which makes the realm's diminishing power more melancholy while reading LOTR.(Untill the return of the king)
Probably the main reason people built these kind of statues or monuments is because they are afraid they will be forgotten, and I am sure Gondor is no exception. When I see the way they designed the Argonath in FOTR I think you can really see that.

[alatar]

In the next two movies, PJ starts teasing us by 'killing' off characters who miraculously return (I'm not talking about Gandalf, as his death and return was Tolkien's idea). We also get talk of Treebeard taking the hobbits to see the White Wizard in TTT. It's a tease, I guess.

And so I was wondering why, at least in the EE version, that he couldn't have had the FotR cowering in their boats on side of the Anduin, wrapped in fog, and hearing some screaching call above. The fog could swirl, as if something flew in it overhead. Finally, Legolas could send an arrow and there's a scream, then the sky is again clear of whatever lurked there. Frodo could be doing the stomach-cramp thing, just to add more clues.

Of course I'm referring to the Nazgul on wings, which we will see in TTT. Not sure why PJ didn't tease us with that in this sequence.

[Sir Kohran]

Originally Posted by alatar

In the next two movies, PJ starts teasing us by 'killing' off characters who miraculously return (I'm not talking about Gandalf, as his death and return was Tolkien's idea). We also get talk of Treebeard taking the hobbits to see the White Wizard in TTT. It's a tease, I guess.

And so I was wondering why, at least in the EE version, that he couldn't have had the FotR cowering in their boats on side of the Anduin, wrapped in fog, and hearing some screaching call above. The fog could swirl, as if something flew in it overhead. Finally, Legolas could send an arrow and there's a scream, then the sky is again clear of whatever lurked there. Frodo could be doing the stomach-cramp thing, just to add more clues.

Of course I'm referring to the Nazgul on wings, which we will see in TTT. Not sure why PJ didn't tease us with that in this sequence.

Probably because it would make the Fellbeasts seem rather weak - if our first hint of one is when Legolas takes it out with one arrow, it removes a lot of the fear and mystery that surrounds these creatures.

Also, it's something of a continuity error: the Fellbeasts don't appear until at least a third of the way into TTT. Showing them in FOTR so soon after the Nazgul (on hooves?) had been dispatched, just an hour or so before, would lessen the powerful climax to the earlier plot of Frodo being hunted by the Nazgul.
And besides that, we only really see them doing a lot plot-wise in ROTK. Showing them so early before in FOTR would make them seem rather pointless in TTT, as there is none of the shock aspect that we have when we first see them in TTT.

Though I am intrigued to think how PJ would have done this scene, and how people would have reacted.

[doug*platypus]

I too missed the appearance of the orcs and the Nazgûl on the east bank of the river, especially Legolas' magnificent shot in the dark. But Sir Kohran makes a convincing case for not having the Nazgûl with its new mount so soon. In the movie, we don't really get the sense that the Fellowship spends weeks and weeks in Lórien, or considerable amounts of time heading south on either side of the Misty Mountains. Indeed, it was only an hour or so ago that the Nazgûl were seemingly defeated, and it may not have fit to have them back so soon.

I agree that the scenery on the boat trip south was pretty awesome. Although, I did have to admit thinking that they were in the South Island of New Zealand, rather than Middle Earth! But that's to be expected, I suppose. I didn't like the fact that Legolas looks left when his elfy-sense is tingling, rather than right (he looks west rather than east, towards Isengard). Just one of those annoying bugbears which most audience members feel at some tiny errors they notice in movies.

It's been a long time since I saw the EE; I only have a bootleg copy (the shame! the guilt!) of the theatrical version. So I can't really comment on the argument (for want of a better word) between Boromir and Aragorn. The reference to Gollum was important, though, since we need to know how exactly he catches up with Frodo and Samwise in the next instalment.

Boromir's attempt to wrest the Ring from Frodo was well done, except when he appears to slip over on nothing. I would have liked to see more made of Frodo's struggle on Amon Hen, but I guess that Gandalf's voice would have seemed a bit out of place, and elicited comparisons with "use the Force, Luke!" from the recently departed Obi-Wan in A New Hope. I liked the fact that Frodo could see the Eye of Sauron when he wore the Ring on the high seat. But if events at Bree were anything to go by, shouldn't he always see the Eye (and it see him) whenever he puts the Ring on? Here we have one of those famous inconsistencies which appear when PJ alters the original events.

I have to say that I didn't like Aragorn letting Frodo go at all! It seems cruel to wilfully abandon him and expect him to continue on to Mordor alone. I would have preferred it if Frodo had simply given him the slip, as in the book.

I also thought that Aragorn solo versus 100 uruks was a little unrealistic. And why didn't Lurtz just shoot him? Come to think of it, why didn't more of them have bows? Well, I guess they did spread out after Lurtz gave the order... plus Aragorn withdrew a little to where they could only come at him one at a time. So I suppose his outnumbering wasn't too bad.

That Lurtz was one evil dude, shooting Boromir like that. Makes you kind of glad when Aragorn separates his head from his shoulders. Not that violence is good, mind... Although he was not in the book, I appreciate that PJ wanted a minor baddie leader that he could kill off. I wonder, though, what it would have been like if Uglúk had been the one to shoot Boromir, then run off, to be killed by Éomer in the next movie? Then we would have been doubly glad to see him get done in, because he had survived so long and tormented Merry and Pippin.

Boromir's death scene was touching, if perhaps a little drawn out. But great acting, great make-up, great lighting. Just great. And did I mention great? PJs decision to move The Departure of Boromir to the first film was one of his best alterations to the book. If I had been the director, I probably would have stuck to the book, and the first movie would have ended with a fizzle, and without any clear idea of where the characters were and where they were going (with the exception of Sam and Frodo).

Frodo's indecision and hesitation at the boats gave us yet more shots of the Ring in his hand, which I felt we didn't really need. It kind of slowed down the action and ruined the climax a little. Sam came up with an endearing piece of humour when he arrived to rain on Frodo's parade:

"I'm going to Mordor alone!"

"Of course you are; and I'm coming with you!"

For some reason, I just love the shot of Frodo's hand reaching down to rescue Sam from the water. And Sam's optimism when Frodo despairs of seeing the others again is really touching. One of the few times when movie Sam really does it for me.

"Let's hunt some orc" really made me cringe the first twenty or so times I heard it, but I think I'm getting used to it now! It's not the worst addition to the dialogue.

Enya's May it Be is a simply perfect ending to the film. That song is so Middle Earth! I love the lyrics and Enya's voice. I like to believe that even Tolkien would have approved.

And so the pieces are set and the board is moving. On to the next movie!

[sassyfriend]

I loved the whole thing with Aragorn chopping off Lurtz's head I always cheer when that happens and I loved the whole Boromir dying scene not that I love that he dies mind you, but its a very heart wrenching scene and you really feel their friendship in that moment.

[alatar]

I agree, sassyfriend, that this scene is one of the greats, especially with Boromir's death (a great change from the Books). This is Aragorn's second beheading (Moria the first?), and I don't mind it as a way for dispatching Lurtz...it just gets old by RotK.

By the by, welcome, sassyfriend, to the Downs!

[Bêthberry]

I wouldn't exactly say that Aragorn and Boromir have a "friendship" at that moment. True Boromir has made amends, but the dark side of his desire for the Ring caused the Ring Bearer to run off and hide, and this is greatly troubling for Aragorn, as well as the loss of the other hobbits. It is a situation very difficult for the man who would be king.

[alatar]

Bb, I understand what sassyfriend is expressing about the Boromir/Aragorn scene, as it seems that the guys bond at that moment.

<by the by, nice seeing you here!>

[sassyfriend]

Hanna le, Thank you for the welcome. Not sure who or what the statue at Amon hen represents though.

[Bêthberry]

Well, alatar, if the two of you think that, I guess I'll just have to hunker down and take another look at that scene.

[alatar]

It's just one scene that is actually touching. As I had written years ago, here are two strong men sharing a moment - not killing anything, not one-linering, not any macho crap...just being human, like brothers.

[sassyfriend]

Love what you said, alatar

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I wouldn't exactly say that Aragorn and Boromir have a "friendship" at that moment. True Boromir has made amends, but the dark side of his desire for the Ring caused the Ring Bearer to run off and hide, and this is greatly troubling for Aragorn, as well as the loss of the other hobbits. It is a situation very difficult for the man who would be king.

Granted this is from the books, so probably isn't relevant, but I've always thought the movie portrayal of Boromir was much softer than the book character. Anyway, Aragorn doesn't even disclose to Gandalf the full story of Boromir's death.

Maybe Aragorn's honorable where he doesn't "mock the dead" as they say, but I always viewed the two as having a friendship...albeit an interesting and confrontational one at times. I believe Boromir even says sometime after Lothlorien he doesn't abandon his friends in need. So, clearly despite the personality clash, he regarded the Fellowship as all friends.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Maybe Aragorn's honorable where he doesn't "mock the dead" as they say, but I always viewed the two as having a friendship...albeit an interesting and confrontational one at times. I believe Boromir even says sometime after Lothlorien he doesn't abandon his friends in need. So, clearly despite the personality clash, he regarded the Fellowship as all friends.

Agreed. Brotherly - those of us blessed with brothers know that they are closer than friends will ever be, yet sometimes you consider killing them (metaphorically, of course).

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by alatar

Agreed. Brotherly - those of us blessed with brothers know that they are closer than friends will ever be, yet sometimes you consider killing them (metaphorically, of course).

Ah, the love of brothers.

Denethor loves and favors Boromir for what he can do. This blinds his love as he believes Boromir would have brought him a mighty gift, that in turn would "save" Gondor. Faramir, on the other hand, loves Boromir for who he is, flaws and all. It's an honest love, a brotherly love.

Yes, I'd say where Aragorn stands is more similar to Faramir's honest love for his brother, than Denethor's blind love for his son.

[sassyfriend]

I totally agree with that and I to say Denthor is very sick in the way he treats Faramir so much so I'm glad he dies!