Hobbits

I'm curious to know what event you think had the most important effect on the 4 hobbits?

Frodo-Reseiving the ring. The reasons are obvious.

Sam- Overhearing Gandalf and Frodo talking about the journey Frodo was to take. Without that happening he never would have known about the quest resulting in him not going with Frodo.

Pippin- Recieving allegiance to Gondor.

Merry. Going with Eowyn to Gondor and slaying the Witch King.

Any thoughts?

[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: Kasia ]

[Joy]

I agree with you Kasia. For Frodo, I believe that he had two epihanies. Recieving of the Ring was very important, even life-changing. This is what set him on his journey

The first ephiany would be, IMHO, the wound at Weathertop. As Gandalf stated, this was meant to pierce his heart and turn him into a waith.

But Gandalf stated

Still, that must be expected... He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can.

The second would be where he releases Saurman(Sharky) and Wormtongue from their guilt. He has learned true pity and mercy along the way, the journey of the Ring. This is were he extended it the most and his true character/transparency was shown.

I personally think that Sam had the most effect because without him Frodo would certanly have died in the land of Shadow or when he was captured in the Tower of Cirith Ungol and his courage and love for his master gave him the strengh to fight huge spiders and slip past the Servents of the Enemy. What could Frodo have done without him. Because of the choices of Master Samwise the One Ring would have fallen into the hands of the Nameless One, but no. Do not mistake me, I also believe that without the deeds of Merry and Pippen the WR would have gone much worse. If the King of the Nasgul had not been slane surely things would have ended quite differently. And if Pippen had not recieved allegence to Gondor and the Lord Denethor, would Faramir be alive to meet Lady Eowen. And would Lady Eowen be alive if she had not met.....I could probaly go on for alot longer but I will spare you all. Still I think that Sam was braver and better for the title than any other. After all he was Mayor of Hobbiton eight times or something like that.

[Joy]

Hello justahijustabye. Good to have you at the Barrow-Downs. Hope you enjoy your stay here.

I think that what Kasia meant was:
For each hobbit, what was the most life-changing event? What impacted each the most?

Oh, BTW, welcome to the Barrow-Downs Kasia. Missed your first post.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I think that all of the hobbits are equally important - if Frodo had never taken the ring then it probably would've been taken by the enemy - if Sam hadn't gone along Frodo would've never made it - if Merry and Pippin had not shown so much courage in battle then worse things could've happened - plus, if Pippin hadn't looked into the Palantir then Sauron might've gotten suspicious and stopped them in their tracks!

I agree with you all. And I did mean what was the most important event for each hobbit. But i do agree that Sam had teh most important.

[Glim Iceholder]

Since this topic kind of turned into that anyway, I will say who I think is the most important.

Although I do agree Frodo could not have gone on without Sam, likewise Sam could not have alone carried the ring to mordor and dropped it in, atleast not IMO. I mean how would Sam be after experiencing the strong pull of the ring for so long, not to mention being permenantly scared by a morgul blade that almost turned you into a wringwraith.

[Joy]

Glim, Sam was wounded by the Morgul blade??? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

Well, I got what you meant anyways> [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Lindolirian]

I think when Elrond gave in at let Merry and Pippin go with the Fellowship. If they had not gone or Elf-lords in their place, they would not have been captured by the Orcs of Isengard. As Gandalf explains in the Two Towers, their coming was the trickle of water that burst the dam. Saruman was stayed by Rohan and the Ents and Rohan was able to came to the aid of Minas Tirith and save the city. They then formed the Host of the West and made the final diversion to empty Mordor. If Elves had gone in the place of Merry and Pippin, they would have killed all the orcs, Treebeard and the Ents never aroused, Rohan and Gondor destroyed and more orcs still in Mordor to find Frodo and Sam.

True, true. I guess thee is no way to tell who had the most important. Each event branches off into more.

[Nova]

For Frodo, I wonder if he was affected more by Baromir's attempt to take the ring. He certainly became much more grim and determined at that point, evidenced by his leaving the fellowship without even consulting Aragorn first, and he planned to even leave without Sam!

[Lyta_Underhill]

This is a great topic that makes me think! I dredged it out with a search for "Cirith Ungol." One never knows what strange tangents one will find, whether guided by intuition and stream of consciousness or a rigid, logical programmed search function! (But that's neither here nor there...)

Anyway, as for the defining moments for the Hobbits, I've gone into depth about Pippin's epiphany with the palantir before (it forms the axis for my essay on Pippin in the Essay contest). Without that experience, he probably would not have had the strength and initiative to pledge himself fully to Gondor. With that experience, his eyes are opened to the enormity of the events of which he has, until then, been only dimly aware.

Merry, on the other hand, seems lost for a much longer time, although he is very aware of the needs of the journey, having studied the maps of Rivendell and prepared himself for the physical part of the journey much more thoroughly than Pippin did. He does not come into his own until he pledges himself to Theoden and Rohan and subsequently defies Theoden's command to ride to war with Dernhelm/Eowyn. Merry finds his definition through love for Theoden and the ability to transcend common sense (which he has much more of than Pippin!) to perform heroic deeds.

Sam, I think, is slightly, but not significanly torn between his love for the Shire and his love for Frodo. I think that he realizes, in Cirith Ungol after Frodo is stung and seemingly dead, that the worries of Frodo have become his worries (replacing his worries FOR Frodo). He is charged with the terrible decision to complete the Quest or to save Frodo. In this moment, he realizes that he does not have the strength to carry Frodo's burden and that his true purpose has been all along to carry Frodo through and help him complete the quest. Sam also has an epiphany when Gollum attacks him at the Sammath Naur. He discovers he cannot kill him, for he feels the same pity that Frodo did for him. Sam's insight and better nature overcome his roused anger and he becomes a much more seasoned hobbit, now wiser than before, much removed from his days in the Shire.

Frodo has so many defining moments I cannot begin to list them. Certainly Weathertop is one of them, but also he finds his strength beyond what he had believed it to be when he is pursued at the Ford of Bruinen. ("You shall have neither the Ring, nor me!") Frodo is tested to the very limits of his spiritual being in many instances. There is also an innate understanding in Rivendell, confirmed in Lothlorien, that he is doomed to carry the Ring to the end. The discord between those in the Council of Elrond and then his test of Galadriel (and her analysis of how it is for her bearing Nenya) at the Mirror show him the extent of the Ring's corrupting influence. After this, he truly realizes how alone he is. OK, I have gone on too long now. I know there is more, but I must close! Thanks for the great topic, Kasia!

Cheers,
Lyta

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

While thinking about it... I think that the most altering event for all of the hobbits involved separation, because it meant that the worlds they were used to were turned upside down.
When they were still together with the ring things were bad, but their world was not that changed yet.
I think that the world really changed for Frodo when he made the decision to leave the Fellowship.
I think that it was for Sam when he felt alone for the first time. When he had Frodo he still had a place, but his actions didn't really change until he realized that it may be up to him to deliver the ring to Mt. Doom.
And I think that it was for Merry and Pippin when they were separated. That is when they changed and matured because they were forced to do things "alone" in their separate places... and that caused their valor to really show.

[ April 27, 2003: Message edited by: Tigerlily Gamgee ]

[Lyta_Underhill]

Great, concise post, Tigerlily! I went back and looked at my ponderous one preceding it and discovered that the things I'd noted happen right about where they are separated: Pippin is taken alone to Minas Tirith after the Palantir experience; Merry pledges himself to Theoden after he is taken back to the Meduseld and is bereft of Pippin; Sam has to choose between the quest and Frodo when Frodo is taken from him by the Orcs; and Frodo has his realization that he is alone in his quest and must take the Ring alone after much fear and deliberation, and a few well-shown examples of why no other member of the Fellowship, no elf (no matter how great) can bear the burden he must bear alone. (Of course, when Frodo is truly alone, bereft of Sam, there is only a fuzzy picture of what goes on in his world: an orc turns into Sam...Frodo seems to be in a dark dream. In fact, I get a feeling that, without companions to tie him to the real world, Frodo would lose his connection to it real fast. Perhaps this is why the tale in Mordor is told from Sam's point of view--because Frodo's involves mostly the unseen world at this point. At least that's my idea at the moment!)

Great insight, and thanks! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Lyta