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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahom
Posts: 44
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What won't be in The Hobbit
It has been discussed here before, many times, and will be brought up again - what parts of the Hobbit will and will not make the cut? Are we assuming the Hobbit will be 3 plus hours long and that additional material - White Council, etc - will be moved over into the second film as a flashback?
Regardless, a good rule of thumb is to look at what was left out of the cartoons and the radio drama. For instance, in the case of LotR, Bombadil and the Barrow Wights did not make it into either and were subsequently cut out of Jackson's films. Jackson also borrowed the idea of a stand-in for Glorfindel from Bakshi, although the former used Arwen, the latter, Legolas. There is a gap between the Bakshi and Rankin-Bass cartoons, so one cannot say that the Paths of the Dead were left out intentionally. The Pukelmen did not make the cartoon or the radio drama and thus were not in the live action film. Scouring of the Shire was not in the cartoon or the live action, but was in the drama. TH is a tougher pickle. It is a shorter story and therefore there would be less to cut in a three hour movie. In fact, in the BBC radio production, the plot remains greatly intact. The cartoon keeps the major events, as well. One exception is Beorn. This has been mentioned here as the most likely thing to be cut. There are two reasons 1) He has a bunch of helper animals that will seem out of place with the Jackson brand 2) He would be easy to edit out - simply have the eagles drop everyone off at the edge of Mirkwook ala Rankin-Bass and cut out the Bolg vs Beorn, inserting a Dwarf, Elf, or Man of Dale for him in the slaying of Bolg. Another character likely to go is the Master of Lake Town. Less likely to be cut, although they could do it (don't forget what happened to Imrahil) could be Dain. Additionally, there is the question of what will talk and what won't. Here we have trolls, wargs, eagles, and spiders to consider. Finally, one might consider the length of the opening scene, i.e., the tea party, which could surpass 30min in length. I know, tl;dr. But what does /thee/ think? |
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#2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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"Common wisdom" in the LOTR movies was that
the movies wouldn't go beyond 2 1/2 hours soell the introduction theaters could have more showings, but PJ did surpass that. I'd hope for 3 hours but 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 seems more likely. Given how well the introduction to FOTR worked, what about some sort of intro to give the general middle earth situation at the time? Essentially Erebor and Rhovannion, with particular attention to Mirkwood in general and Dol Guldur in particular.
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#3 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Out West near a Big Salty Lake
Posts: 76
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What's In
Well, going by the adaptation I think you'll see An Expected Party, then the Trolls, a quickie in Rivendell, the confrontation between the Goblins and Bilbo and Gollum. Next, the Eagles taking them to the edge of Mirkwood, the forest path and the spider confrontation, followed by Barrel out of Bonds and Laketown, then the Mountain, Smaug, Bilbo and Smaug, Smaug's death, the gathering of clouds and the Battle of Five Armies. A quick return trip similar to Frodo's return to the Shire after ROTK and Mt. Doom. Beorn could be left out or given a mention to and thus show up for the Battle. Or the Eagles take them to the Carrock and they meet the Bear/Man and he gives them the ponies to borrow. However, I don't think we'll see time at Beorn, just a mention and then he'll show up at the Battle (or like I said an introduction that is quick but not long like in the book).
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"At any minute it is what we are and are doing, not what we plan to be and do that counts." JRR Tolkien in 6 October 1940 letter to Michael Tolkien |
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#4 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,506
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1) The unexpected party (a little levity to start off) 2) Trolls 3) Rivendell (perhaps giving an enema to Elrond so he's a little looser than in LotR) 4) Goblins in the Mistys 5) Gollum 6) Eagles 7) Spiders 8) The barrels (not much lingering on Thranduil, I suppose) 9) Laketown (briefly, briefly...perhaps showing Bard down on his luck and friendless...sort of a poor man's Aragorn) 10) Erebor and Smaug 11) Smaug's death (with the quick revelation that Bard is descended from Lord Girion) 12) A brief bit of tension between Dwarves and Elves/Men -- or not, just forget the whole Dwarf vs Elf thing, and have Dain's Folk act as the cavalry for... 13) The wargs, orcs and bats (with the eagles again) 14) Then an eagle-ride back to the Shire (hey, we've run out of time and budget). Phew! You'll be sweating and suffering from eye strain after that rollercoaster ride of compressed plot! It will be like watching faces on a passing subway train: Hey, there goes Gandalf! Ummm...was that Elrond? Look, it's a bear! Where? Errr...too late, they're already in Mirkwood. Perhaps Bilbo will perform the Riddles in the Dark portion of the story as he jogs along in the cavern. Sad to say, I fear there will be a few casualties (Beorn among them) in order to bring the film in on time. I think the trolls will remain (they are mentioned in the RotK film). The Unexpected Party will merely be the sight gag of separate dwarves knocking each in turn at Bilbo's door (they might keep the 'Chip the Plates' song, but the scene will have only the most germane plot points -- the map, Erebor and Smaug). I would think Gollum's part will be sacrosanct, and of course the Battle of Five Armies (got to have those hordes of CG orcs splilling over Erebor). I don't think they could have the eagles at the battle without the eagles saving Gandalf and company earlier, could they? Bah! I've given myself a headache. P.S. I am already certain they'll add another 30 minutes of scenes into an extended DVD, so that's where you'll get to see Beorn and whatever else they've omitted. Hey, it's a guaranteed moneymaking proposition.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. Last edited by Morthoron; 05-13-2008 at 09:57 PM. |
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#5 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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The visual payoff of Beorn killing Bolg and carrying Thorin off the field of battle is way too good for any filmmaker to pass up. I expect it will be in the film and would be surprised to see it cut. I do suspect that based on the animals from both Narnia and Compass, Beorn will not be a 100% bear but more of a werebear with some human and some fantastical features mixed in with his bear visage.
and this from a recent Del Toro interview Quote:
Looks like Beorn is in. Last edited by Sauron the White; 05-14-2008 at 10:47 AM. |
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#6 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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And given the North American audience, what
will "attercop" and "tomnoddy" be repalced by as insults to the spiders?
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The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' |
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#7 | |
Dead Serious
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Quote:
EDIT: After all, though the North American market is huge, this film is definitely going to play on the global stage, as acknowledged in the past with the London premieres.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#8 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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![]() An English work, surely ![]() |
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#9 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I agree the insults SHOULD stay yhe same, but given
Hollywood mentality I have my doubts. After all, the Australian accents in the first Mad Max movie were all "Americanized" (except for Braveheart, of course).
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The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' |
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#10 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: May 2008
Location: canadialand!
Posts: 11
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I don't think the dwarves' song will make it in, or any of the songs for that matter. As for Riddles in the Dark, I have a feeling it will be cut out entirely, with Bilbo just finding the ring, maybe a short confrontation with Gollum, and then getting out of the caves. Beorn's helper animals are probably going to be cut as well. I have a sneaky feeling the dungeons of Mirkwood are going to go the way of Tom Bombadil...
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The best things around that I have ever seen came from small towns, and big dreams. |
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#11 |
Shade with a Blade
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Stories and songs. |
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#12 | |
Shade with a Blade
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Quote:
I hope Beorn does not get cut, because I think he would translate very well as an on-screen character. I imagine he'd be rather popular. But, he isn't really a CRUCIAL part of the plot, so he may very well get the axe. Ha ha. I just remembered the Hildebrandt picture of Beorn as I wrote that last line.
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Stories and songs. |
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#13 | |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 274
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He looked down at her in the twilight and it seemed to him that the lines of grief and cruel hardship were smoothed away. "She was not conquered," he said Last edited by Morwen; 05-17-2008 at 06:47 AM. |
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#14 |
Dead Serious
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You know... I wasn't going to bother defending myself, since Davem's preference (and indeed the general English preference) to distinguish the English from the general British is understandable enough to one who would distinguish Canadian from the more general North American.
However, I feel prompted enough to point out that the distinction I was making was that, although The Hobbit may be most likely to have its largest market in North America, it is not a work that belongs to that culture. Perhaps I should have been more specific and said "English"... but my point might have been made better to have gone the other way and said "European" or "Old World". The point was more that The Hobbit was a non-North American work than that it was specifically any other sort, though, of course, it does actually have to be some other sort in order to be at all and not be North American, and in this case is English, but as a broader term, British does encompass English, though it is not so specific a term. ~Formendacil the disgruntled
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#15 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahom
Posts: 44
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#16 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,307
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And del Toro has said (someplace) how wonderful he thinks the Riddle chapter is.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahom
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Help me out here. They are in the Rankin-Bass RotK?
Last edited by Makar; 05-17-2008 at 10:12 PM. |
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#18 |
Shade with a Blade
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No, the New Line version.
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Stories and songs. |
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#19 |
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Appy polly loggies. I incorrectly said Pukel-men, when I indeed should have referred to Woses or Druedain under Ghan-buri-ghan and the two of you jumped on the fact that Jackson did include the statues of the Pukel-men, who are thought to be ancestors of the group which I intended to discuss. Thanks, guys.
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
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How about the stone giants? In the graphic novel of the Hobbit and the video game, they are portrayed. Doubtless they have no place in the land of PJ.
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#21 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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You could do the Giants causing the storm and make it realistic if you showed them as part of clouds, tricks of lighting and lightning, that are more in the mind of the viewer than 100% actual giant throwing boulders around.
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#22 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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And how will Gollum be integrated in movie?
Perhaps Gollum reliving in his mind his coming to the Misty Mountains as he hears Bilbo coming to his lake (ala the extended dvd). And the movie could end with Gollum coming out of the mountains and start searching for the precious (and even seeing Gandalf and Bilbo afar off returning to Erebor).
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#23 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Unless it was Giants who attempted to thwart The Fellowship as they traveled through Caradhras. Mind you, that wouldn't be PJ's world, but you get the point.
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"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
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#24 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
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I just hope we are spared endless cameos of the Jackson children
![]() I doubt that they will lose the Master of Laketown because it is such a wonderful cameo for a big name actor - and given that it would only require a couple of scenes just about any name htey wanted could probably fit it in to their schedule. I can think of about 20 actors who could do it wonderfully - not the same way necessarily but who in their own way could really bring this character to life.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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