The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books > Chapter-by-Chapter
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-13-2006, 01:45 PM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Leaf The Hobbit - Chapter 09 - Barrels Out of Bond

Bilbo spends almost all of this chapter invisible! The ring continues to be his most important asset as the dwarves are captured to share Thorin’s fate. He truly acts as a burglar, though not for profit, but only to stay alive by stealing food.

Though the capturing seems to be unfortunate, it could possibly be that they were saved in this way, unable as they were to find their way out of the forest on their own - or at least able to continue on to their goal by way of the Elven caves and the river.

Here is a picture of the Elven King's Gate by Tolkien:



What do you think of the Elven underground kingdom? Is the fact that the Wood-elves’ king’s insignia were of natural materials, as compared to the gold and mithril of other kingdoms, significant?

The continuing enmity between Dwarves and Elves is shown in the conversation between Balin and the King – how do you feel about it? Is either side justified in considering itself in the right?

Time passes slowly for all of them, and this is not a safe haven; however, they are given food and drink, so are nourished and kept kindly in captivity.

Bilbo continues his coming-of-age experience in realizing that he has no one else to help him and the dwarves out of their predicament.
Quote:
...he soon realized that if anything was to be done, it would have to be done by Mr. Baggins, alone and unaided.
He takes action, plans a method of escape, and implements it. As a German proverb says, “Luck is with the hard-worker”; circumstances help him to achieve his goal.

Again we see Bilbo’s pity here – after freeing the dwarves, he replaces the keys to keep the guard from getting into trouble afterwards.

We have two Elven poems – one brief rhyme when rolling out the barrels; it seems rather un-Elven to me, with its colloquial-sounding “Splash plump!” and “bump!” The longer one is more picturesque: “Down the swift dark stream you go”. What do you think about them?

Bilbo shows his bravery in jumping into the water, not usually a favourite element of Hobbits! In this passage, there is some descriptive writing of the landscape through which they pass. There is another tricky situation, when the raft-elves come into the story, but that hurdle is soon passed as well. The story ends with a positive ending, their escape, but with uncertainty as well – are the dwarves dead or alive?

It also ends with one of those mundane annoyances we all know – Bilbo has caught a cold...



Here is Tolkien's own drawing for this chapter, one of my favourites:

__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2006, 10:11 AM   #2
Tuor in Gondolin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,651
Tuor in Gondolin has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via Yahoo to Tuor in Gondolin
Quote:
As a German proverb says, “Luck is with the hard-worker”; circumstances help him to achieve his goal.
Or as Branch Rickey said:
Quote:
Luck is the residue of design.


Bilbo is helped, of course, by having more then the
usual portion of luck (witness the elves not
checking why some barrels are so heavy).

E.T. makes a good point about Bilbo's bravery
jumping into the water. I hadn't considered it
before, but given the fate of his parents, indeed
quite a notable act. This chapter's theme also inspired
some fine, evocative drawings, not just the above
but several later showing the shore curving where
they're caught and organized by elves to be sent
downstream.

Another point, the presentation of the dwarves reasons
for not talking and Thranduil's for wanting information
from them not only give both sides reasoned views but also
presage one of the most remarkable and fascinating
later discussion of the various plusses and minuses of the elves, men,
and dwarves various claims on the treasure of Erebor.

Another echo is Bilbo once again unknowingly almost hitting his
head on the top of the river tunnel, as he almost did when
escaping from Gollum.
__________________
The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin.
Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'
Tuor in Gondolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2006, 12:48 PM   #3
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Well, I am glad you posted, Tuor! After almost a week without a single response, I was beginning to wonder if my post, like Bilbo, was invisible!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin
I hadn't considered it before, but given the fate of his [Bilbo's] parents, indeed quite a notable act.
You must be confusing Bilbo with Frodo. It was the latter's parents who drowned. I was just thinking of the general wariness Hobbits had about water and boats.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2006, 02:38 PM   #4
Tuor in Gondolin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,651
Tuor in Gondolin has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via Yahoo to Tuor in Gondolin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin
I hadn't considered it before, but given the fate of his [Bilbo's] parents, indeed quite a notable act.
You must be confusing Bilbo with Frodo. It was the latter's parents who drowned. I was just thinking of the general wariness Hobbits had about water and boats.

Oops! (Well, I guess all hobbits look alike to Nonhobbits.
__________________
The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin.
Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'
Tuor in Gondolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2006, 11:14 PM   #5
Formendacil
Dead Serious
 
Formendacil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers.
Posts: 3,326
Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Send a message via AIM to Formendacil Send a message via MSN to Formendacil
Just when you think you're about to catch up, the CbC threads roar out of sight. Ah well, here's another attempt to catch back up...

For me, in The Hobbit, there are two categories of chapter: the memorable and the fleeting. The memorable include "An Unexpected Party", "Riddles in the Dark", "Flies and Spiders", and other chapters that are the iconic, deeply etched in my mind, parts of the book.

The rest, although fun to read, important to the book, and often full of fun/interesting episodes, are not quite crucial to my mental image of The Hobbit. "Barrels out of Bond" is one of them. The whole episode the Elvenking's palace is given in sparse detail until it's very end: the day when Bilbo and the Dwarves escape. I'd really like a deeper look at Bilbo's survival, although rational thought leads me to suppose that it was every bit as boring as its absence suggests.

The poor Dwarves, being stuffed into the barrels always have my sympathy- and I'm not even claustrophobic! Imagine if one of them was... Poor, poor, poor Nori, Bofur, or whatever poor Dwarf it was.

This chapter contains another piece of The Hobbit's legendary "un-Legendariumish" puzzle: The Drunk Elven butler. Although quite natural seeming from within the context of The Hobbit, serious canonists seem to have some mental difficulty reconciling these silly Woodelves being drunk with the sombre Elflords of the Silmarillion.

Well, I'm having a little time reconciling Fordhim Hedgethistle and the drunk high school kids in my town as being both Canadian, so if those canonists ever figure it out, I'd love to hear how it works.
__________________
I prefer history, true or feigned.
Formendacil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2006, 04:39 PM   #6
deal_with_it
Animated Skeleton
 
deal_with_it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 42
deal_with_it has just left Hobbiton.
Legolas

Was Legolas present at this time? Wouldn't he have recognized Bilbo and Gloin at the Council of Elrond?
deal_with_it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 10:00 AM   #7
Tuor of Gondolin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles)
Posts: 1,548
Tuor of Gondolin has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

Quote:
Was Legolas present at this time? Wouldn't he have recognized Bilbo and Gloin at the Council of Elrond?
The short answer is, of course, that Legolas wasn't
yet invented. But one could surmise that he, being young
for an elf and son of the king, was still taking the elf
equifalent of a kind of coming of age, European Grand Tour
in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Century upper class tradition.
__________________
Aure Entuluva!
Tuor of Gondolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 10:49 AM   #8
davem
Illustrious Ulair
 
davem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formendacil
Well, I'm having a little time reconciling Fordhim Hedgethistle and the drunk high school kids in my town as being both Canadian, so if those canonists ever figure it out, I'd love to hear how it works.
Sure they aren't Fordim's students?
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:16 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.