Elf-children - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Silver-shod Muse · 05-07-2002, 03:52 PM

I'm sure all you learned Tolkien scholars know the answer to this one, but I sure don't, and I've been wondering about it so maybe ya'll can help me.

If Arwen is the daughter of Elrond and the granddaughter of Galadriel (correct me if I'm wrong), then there must have been an elf marriage somewhere, right? Which means that at some time Arwen should've been a child.

My question is this: do elves reproduce and develop like humans? You don't read about any elf-children in LotR, but elves must come from somewhere, (eggs perhaps [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )?

[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: The Silver-shod Muse ]

Elenya · 05-07-2002, 04:11 PM

I really don't know, but I can take a guess, right? Yes, I think they reproduce just like us. Also, I think that elves age much, much slower than everyone else in M.E., which would explain why Arwen still looks 20-something, even though she's I don't know how old. This is just a guess, so I'm probably wrong.

[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Elenya ]

Arwen Evenstar the Fair · 05-07-2002, 04:22 PM

Well its like this. Yes Elrond married the daughter of Galadriel and together they had Arwen. As for the Elves reproducing the same way we do, I would have to say yes they do, because in the Silmarillion it says Miriel married Finwe and together they had a son. to quote: "But in the bearing of her son Miriel was consumed in spirit and body; and after his birth she yearned for release from the labour of living." So this suggests that Elves have children the same way humans do. Besides Aragron and Arwen had lots children and Aragorn is a Man. Well anyway I hoped that helped!!!
~Arwen

Lomelinde · 05-07-2002, 04:33 PM

Tolkien did mention somewhere (I believe it was the preface to the Sil) in passing with regard to the Orcs that they "multiplied in the manner after the Children of Iluvatar". (That was not a direct quote, forgive me.) Both elves and men were considered the Children of Iluvatar, and Tolkien obviously implied the "birds and the bees" by this statement. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Thus elves, like men, came into being through the same, er, methods. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Hope that didn't confuse you too much.

Raefindel · 05-07-2002, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Also, I think that elves age much, much slower than everyone else in M.E.,

That is correct, Elenya. Elves mature at the age of 50.

In the year 3019 (the year of the war of the ring) Arwen would have been nearly 2800 years old. She was born in the year 241.

Thinhyandoiel · 05-07-2002, 09:51 PM

That's been bothering me too! I mean, I can see a bunch of Hobbit Children and Human Children running around. But Elven, Dwarven and Orkish children are difficult to picture. But I agree with the rest when I say they must have children like we do. Eggs? lol! I know you weren't serious, but it's still funny! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

The Silver-shod Muse · 05-08-2002, 03:25 PM

Funny thing that in an elf-city like Rivendell there wasn't any mention of elf-children...

Maybe the elves really are diminishing, and have begun winding down their life processes?

Niere-Teleliniel · 05-08-2002, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Maybe the elves really are diminishing, and have begun winding down their life processes?

Good Point! You may have hit on something there!

Raefindel · 05-08-2002, 03:48 PM

Here's what we had to say about it last time we discussed Elf children.Elven Children

ArwenBaggins · 05-08-2002, 04:02 PM

The age this post was written is the Third Age, while the War of the Ring was in progress.
Pretend Here!:
I am Arwen's sister. Yes, Master Silver-Shod Muse, Elves are diminishing from ME. They are all going to the west, to the Undying Lands. Although most of the Elves in Rivendell and other Elf-Cities are mature, there are a few Elf-Children. One Elven girl, Cùcelebuial, is one of my younger friends. She is 41. I am 1,997. If I stay in ME much longer, I plan on having children. In twenty years, I am to wed a young (In Elven Years.) Elven archer named Forelitheion.
I don't know if that will ever happen. ME is becoming stressful.

Orald · 05-08-2002, 04:46 PM

Rivendell was not an elven city, it was the last homely house. And being thus, there wouldn't have been as many elves there.

I assume elf-children spend their spare time having fun singing songs and such. Lalaith, Turin's first sister was said to be like an elf-child. And it takes approximately 50 years for them to mature, as Raefindel's link shows.

VanimaEdhel · 05-08-2002, 05:47 PM

In order for Elves and Humans to reproduce, it would have been necessary to be able to reproduce the same way.

And: although they age slowly, since they never died (unless in battle, of a broken heart, yadda, yadda, yadda...), I would guess that, even when they get "old" they are probably never really OLD old.

Arwen Evenstar the Fair · 05-08-2002, 09:21 PM

Hey Elves, don't "AGE" once they they've matured thats it, they stop aging, they can become old but they don't age... they're immortal. It says so in the Silmarillion. The elves didn't die out either they all went into the west.

Well except me, I'm still around. Aragorn and I plan to go into the West soon.

In the Silmarillion it also states that anyone with Elvish blood in them may enter into the West. So thats what we're gonna do!!

Arwen Evenstar the Fair · 05-08-2002, 09:23 PM

Oh yeah, even though Elves grow old, they never look it, feel it or act like it!! Its more the knowledge that is gained over the years

The Silver-shod Muse · 05-13-2002, 06:21 PM

Sorry if this thread is a repetition. Thanks for showing the other "elf-children" thread Raefindel. I'm fairly new here, and haven't read up on all the discussions that have gone on before. My apologies, but it's still not a bad subject, huh? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Nimrodel · 05-13-2002, 08:36 PM

Oh, I think Rae put that up because she and Birdland had a good joke in it. She SO loves the attention, Don't you Lady Rae?

Raefindel · 05-13-2002, 09:03 PM

Oh! have I been pegged? Yes I do like the attention. And ,Yes, It was a good joke. But actually I posted the link so that anyone might glean something DIFFERENT than what is on this current thread. Just trying to be helpful, Silver-Shod Muse, no need to be sorry. I know some of us came later than others and would have no way of knowing what was said months ago.

05-07-2002, 03:52 PM	#1
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Elf-children I'm sure all you learned Tolkien scholars know the answer to this one, but I sure don't, and I've been wondering about it so maybe ya'll can help me. If Arwen is the daughter of Elrond and the granddaughter of Galadriel (correct me if I'm wrong), then there must have been an elf marriage somewhere, right? Which means that at some time Arwen should've been a child. My question is this: do elves reproduce and develop like humans? You don't read about any elf-children in LotR, but elves must come from somewhere, (eggs perhaps [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )? [ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: The Silver-shod Muse ] __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

05-07-2002, 04:11 PM	#2
Elenya Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: See that mound of earth? No, no, the one to the left.....There you go Posts: 96	I really don't know, but I can take a guess, right? Yes, I think they reproduce just like us. Also, I think that elves age much, much slower than everyone else in M.E., which would explain why Arwen still looks 20-something, even though she's I don't know how old. This is just a guess, so I'm probably wrong. [ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Elenya ] __________________ "And at night, I cruise the streets of Gotham City in my Davemobile" -Dave Nelson

05-07-2002, 04:22 PM	#3
Arwen Evenstar the Fair Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 235	Well its like this. Yes Elrond married the daughter of Galadriel and together they had Arwen. As for the Elves reproducing the same way we do, I would have to say yes they do, because in the Silmarillion it says Miriel married Finwe and together they had a son. to quote: "But in the bearing of her son Miriel was consumed in spirit and body; and after his birth she yearned for release from the labour of living." So this suggests that Elves have children the same way humans do. Besides Aragron and Arwen had lots children and Aragorn is a Man. Well anyway I hoped that helped!!! ~Arwen __________________ ~Arwen~

05-07-2002, 04:33 PM	#4
Lomelinde Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ha! Wouldn't you like to know? Posts: 80	Tolkien did mention somewhere (I believe it was the preface to the Sil) in passing with regard to the Orcs that they "multiplied in the manner after the Children of Iluvatar". (That was not a direct quote, forgive me.) Both elves and men were considered the Children of Iluvatar, and Tolkien obviously implied the "birds and the bees" by this statement. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Thus elves, like men, came into being through the same, er, methods. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Hope that didn't confuse you too much. __________________ The Dwarf breathes so loud I could've shot him in the dark, drunk, blindfolded and hanging upside down from a tree.

05-07-2002, 09:51 PM	#6
Thinhyandoiel Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 187	That's been bothering me too! I mean, I can see a bunch of Hobbit Children and Human Children running around. But Elven, Dwarven and Orkish children are difficult to picture. But I agree with the rest when I say they must have children like we do. Eggs? lol! I know you weren't serious, but it's still funny! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ In gwidh ristennen, i fae narchannen I lach Anor ed ardhon gwannen Caled veleg, ethuiannen

05-08-2002, 03:25 PM	#7
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Funny thing that in an elf-city like Rivendell there wasn't any mention of elf-children... Maybe the elves really are diminishing, and have begun winding down their life processes? __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

05-08-2002, 03:48 PM	#9
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Here's what we had to say about it last time we discussed Elf children.Elven Children __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1

05-08-2002, 04:02 PM	#10
ArwenBaggins Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: I don't know... will there be a quiz on this later? Posts: 486	The age this post was written is the Third Age, while the War of the Ring was in progress. Pretend Here!: I am Arwen's sister. Yes, Master Silver-Shod Muse, Elves are diminishing from ME. They are all going to the west, to the Undying Lands. Although most of the Elves in Rivendell and other Elf-Cities are mature, there are a few Elf-Children. One Elven girl, Cùcelebuial, is one of my younger friends. She is 41. I am 1,997. If I stay in ME much longer, I plan on having children. In twenty years, I am to wed a young (In Elven Years.) Elven archer named Forelitheion. I don't know if that will ever happen. ME is becoming stressful. __________________ .:Chelsy:. Reality is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Terennth Kingdoms

05-08-2002, 04:46 PM	#11
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	Rivendell was not an elven city, it was the last homely house. And being thus, there wouldn't have been as many elves there. I assume elf-children spend their spare time having fun singing songs and such. Lalaith, Turin's first sister was said to be like an elf-child. And it takes approximately 50 years for them to mature, as Raefindel's link shows.

05-08-2002, 05:47 PM	#12
VanimaEdhel Etheral Enchantress Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wellesley College! Posts: 1,461	In order for Elves and Humans to reproduce, it would have been necessary to be able to reproduce the same way. And: although they age slowly, since they never died (unless in battle, of a broken heart, yadda, yadda, yadda...), I would guess that, even when they get "old" they are probably never really OLD old. __________________ "I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes

05-08-2002, 09:21 PM	#13
Arwen Evenstar the Fair Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 235	Hey Elves, don't "AGE" once they they've matured thats it, they stop aging, they can become old but they don't age... they're immortal. It says so in the Silmarillion. The elves didn't die out either they all went into the west. Well except me, I'm still around. Aragorn and I plan to go into the West soon. In the Silmarillion it also states that anyone with Elvish blood in them may enter into the West. So thats what we're gonna do!! __________________ ~Arwen~

05-08-2002, 09:23 PM	#14
Arwen Evenstar the Fair Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 235	Oh yeah, even though Elves grow old, they never look it, feel it or act like it!! Its more the knowledge that is gained over the years __________________ ~Arwen~

05-13-2002, 06:21 PM	#15
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Sorry if this thread is a repetition. Thanks for showing the other "elf-children" thread Raefindel. I'm fairly new here, and haven't read up on all the discussions that have gone on before. My apologies, but it's still not a bad subject, huh? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

05-13-2002, 08:36 PM	#16
Nimrodel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Golden Wood Posts: 48	Oh, I think Rae put that up because she and Birdland had a good joke in it. She SO loves the attention, Don't you Lady Rae? __________________ Beside the falls of Nimrodel,By water clear and cool, Her voice as falling silver fell Into the shining pool

05-13-2002, 09:03 PM	#17
Raefindel Sword of the Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,313	Oh! have I been pegged? Yes I do like the attention. And ,Yes, It was a good joke. But actually I posted the link so that anyone might glean something DIFFERENT than what is on this current thread. Just trying to be helpful, Silver-Shod Muse, no need to be sorry. I know some of us came later than others and would have no way of knowing what was said months ago. __________________ Blessed be the Lord my Strength, Who trained my hands for war and my fingers to fight. Psallm 144:1