A "diamond" is forever

[Belethfacwen]

Inspired by the subject of the elves' love of beauty, this came to my mind. Do you think that, perhaps, Feanor was obsessed with precious jewels and stones because, things like that are hard, not easily broken, and their outward beauty endures - just like most elves?
"A diamond is forever." (Cheesy, I know. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ) Nothing lasts forever, but if kept in the right hands, (which we all know the Silmarils were not), jewels like that can come close. What I'm basically wondering is if anyone thinks that perhaps by the Silmarils and other jewel-making, Feanor was attempting to deal with and embody his immortality? Elves appreciate beauty, yes, and we all know most beauty found in nature or people, (aside from other elves) does not last. A tree must die at some point, as must a human, no matter how fair or foul or loved they are. So, perhaps Feanor tried to change this by making the Silmarils and his other jewels? Any ideas or thoughts?

-Beleth

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

I don't think so. When Fëanor made the Silmarils he was living in Aman, were everything lasts for ever [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] And he also was born in Aman, and therefore he had never seen the death of anything in Middle Earth.

In this case, I think that Fëanor main intention was only to make beautiful things [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Manardariel]

It is possible that Feanor wanted to create something undestructable, something that would not be broken. However; I agree with Amarie that Feanor really wasn´t familiar with death, or things fading away. So his motivation wasn´t to create something that wouldn´t die, but something that couldn´t be destroyed. That says a lot about a character, doesn´t it? He´s not nescesarily thinking of the natrual end of a thing, but of making something that couldn´t be destroyed by force.
And that fits Feanor, who didn´t want anything he made be destroyed, and who opposed forces greater than him.

[Legolas]

What I'm basically wondering is if anyone thinks that perhaps by the Silmarils and other jewel-making, Feanor was attempting to deal with and embody his immortality?

This could very well be the case. I think it also might have been that the Silmarils would be his "companions" forever - something that he could keep with them to the very ends of Arda that would never wither, rust, or decompose. There are some other important considerations: a) the Silmarils were of his own making. Just as Morgoth thought he would be a better creator than Eru, just as Saruman thought he would be a better Dark Lord than Saruon, Feanor thought he would be a better craftsman than any who came before him. He was probably grinning from ear to ear when his Silmarils were complete - he had made the most beautiful jewels ever seen, and, as you say, jewels that had the potential to last forever with him. One would think he'd like to show them off in arrogance, but his arrogance so far as to deem others unworthy of seeing them (and perhaps fearful of their wild jealousy). b) The Silmarils would stay with him until the End (so he thought, which he tried to ensure by cursing any evil persons who would touch them). That would not talk back him, get angry with him, or leave him when he threw a temper tantrum. Keeping three jewels for best friends is much easier than keeping three elves for best friends. For someone so hot-headed, I imagine this was important.

So, perhaps Feanor tried to change this by making the Silmarils and his other jewels?

I think so - he could've chosen anything to make, but he chose jewels. Not only for their beauty, but for their longevity as well. You're right on track, Beleth. Hope this has been coherent - somehow I missed this thread earlier.

[ June 23, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

[Finwe]

Actually, I think Fëanor was quite familiar with death. Look what happened to his mother. That death affected him for the rest of his life. His mother's death was anything but natural, or peaceful. People probably blamed him for his mother's death. He hated Indis, and his half-brothers.

Fëanor probably created the Silmarils out of a base instinct to prove that he was better than his brothers. Fingolfin and Finarfin were always hated by Fëanor, and he was always jealous of their new status. He wanted to outdo them for all of eternity, and I think he succeeded.

[Legolas]

Oui - he was familiar with death, and quite sick of it - thus, this thread. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Arrogance and his complex are certainly the obvious reasons, but there's definitely more to such a situation.

[Morgul Queen]

I agree, he had lost his mother before he had even known her and perhaps he had been, in part, blamed for Miriel's death.

Unfortunatly, I know first hand what it is like growing up minus one parent and it can be difficult - especially when the one you have re-marries and has other children - they can require a lot of attention and no doubt Finwe was terrified he would lose Indis in childbirth as he did Miriel and in this fear watched over her throughout her pregnancies, and possibly, however unintentionally, might have neglected Feanor somewhat.

The wedding of his father was not pleasing to Feanor: and he had no great love for Indis, nor for Fingolfin and Finarfin, her sons.

Perhaps, with the attention that the younger two brothers got, Feanor was a bit (read: hugely) jealous and the silmarils were a way to prove that he was superior to them (Finarfin and Fingolfin were kinsmen of Ingwe after all).

"...Try but once more to usurp my place and the love of my father..."

This shows that Feanor was insecure in the love of his father although Finwe, after the death of Miriel

All his love he gave thereafter to his son...

Feanor was still upset with his (half) brothers.

"...My half-brother would before me with my father, in this as in all other matters..."

Feanor despised his (half) brothers and this hatred tore his family apart.

In those unhappy things which later came to pass, and in which Feanor was the leader, many saw the effect of this breach within the house of Finwe, judging that if Finwe had endured his loss and been content with the fathering of his mighty son, the courses of Feanor would have been otherwise, and great evil might have been prevented...

*reads over* If you can make sense of my ramblings, please, take a cookie [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Wow, Beleth, I missed this thread too, but I think your ideas are really good.

I think, and I'm not sure entirely how it ties in, but I think it's important to note that even while Feanor was in Valinor (the closest thing in Tolkien to a perfect place) he is still unhappy. Feanor is deeply discontent, and likely always has been. And he's immortal. He will be deeply discontent until the ending of Arda.

Immortality looks a lot less fun when looked at that way. Something to come to terms with (as I think you mentioned, Beleth). I think Feanor's reaction may have been similar to the reaction of some of us puny mortals () to our mortality. People create works of art so that it will outlive them, bring their name the immortality they themselves can't have. Feanor on the other hand is looking for something great to fill and justify his immortality.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

True, I forgot Míriel's death [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

After reading your posts and considering her death, I agree with you in that it is likely that Fëanor made the Silmarills because he wanted to possess something that would never abandon him unlike his mother.

But in my opinion, it is impossible that Fëanor knew the meaning of words like rust or decompose when he made the Silmarills, because he was born in Aman and there:

For in Aman no creatures suffered any sickness or disorder of their natures; nor was there any decay or ageing more swift than the slow ageing of Arda itself. So that all things coming at last to fullness of form and virtue remained in that state, blissfully, ageing and wearying of their life and being no swifter than the Valar themselves.
'Myths Transformed', HoME 10 'Morgoth's Ring'

Even Míriel's hröa didn't rot when her fëa went to Mandos. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Legolas]

True. He might not have known those words or their meaning, but he was acquainted with the concept - he knew people could change, whether it be a turn of personality or some physical change like his mother's death. The jewels wouldn't encounter such problems. He wasn't necessarily consciously thinking these things - this thread is pointing more towards the subconscious, the motivation less-obvious to the observer and probably totally cut-off from Feanor's mind.

Interesting thought Beleth.. but I think Feanor made the Silmarils simply because he wanted to make something. Maybe I should go read that book again [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Vanya sulie.

[tinewelt]

I agree with the earlier post of Legolas. I think that the Silmarils could be compared to a family heirloom of kings or rulers. They were the most beautiful jewels on earth, and a dark lord takes them from you. In most other fantasy stories, the "hero" would do the same and regain them or perish in the attempt. (Except, it would be the usual hero wins and everythings great again story that I am so bored of!) thats why I love tolkien so much. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

~Namarie~

Amarie of the Vanyar said: Even Miriel's hroa didn't rot when her fëa went to Mandos.

Actually, it did. Tolkien mentioned somewhere that Elves' bodies decompose quickly when they die. Miriel's body was preserved at first, but when Finwe remarried, it was allowed to decompose so that she could never return to it.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Welcome to 'Downs Fell Beast! Enjoy being dead

As other people have said, Feanor was kind of childishly eager to prove his merit and status. Maybe that was due to the strong spirit he had or maybe he wanted to show Finwe and Indis that only he was really something.

Miriel had been a very skilled weaver. That might have been the inspiration for Feanor to pursue fame and pleasure from artistry (the writing system he improved and jewellery). Also, Feanor's marriage with a great blacksmith's daughter probably enhanced his interest in jewels.

The main reason for making the silmarils was risen by a question: how to make the light of the trees and the glory of Aman to last forever (The Silmarillion, Ch. 7). To me it seems that Feanor knew that Melkor's kindness was just an act and he had a premonition that something evil was about to happen.

My first thoughts were that Feanor wanted to play a god, a vala, and thus create something that everyone would desire and be amazed at. But the fact that Feanor loathed Melkor had a certain impact, I think. It was only afterwards when he had made the silmarils, that their flawlessness and beauty took over him and he became a bit too fond of them and thus grasping. They were kind of like the One Ring. Feanor didn't want other people to touch the silmarils and was afraid that they would be stolen.

(Scrolls to the beginning to recall what the original question even was...) I agree with Morgul Queen and Sophia about many things but I'd like to think that the idea for the silmarils wasn't completely based on selfish thoughts. I sympathize with Feanor since he must have been very frustrated and unhappy with his life. Though he was ambitious and hot-tempered, he just wanted to make something beautiful endure.

Thankee for the welcome, dancing spawn!

In my opinion, Fëanor was restless and unhappy for a lot of his life. Perhaps he was always creating more dazzling and difficult-to-make treasures partly because he needed something to keep his mind occupied. He'd already explored every corner of Aman, improved their written language, learned everything he could from other craftspeople; what else was there for him to do?

I get the feeling that even before the trouble with Melkor started, he wanted to get to Arda somehow, see new things, new people, new languages, new lore, new dangers, etc. He really did feel restricted by the Valar.

The fact that he distrusted Melkor when everyone else still thought he was a great guy indicates that he had some suspicion that M was up to no good. And if one Vala could be an enemy, so could any or all of them.

*Ahem* Will try to stop rambling now.

Fëanor probably made the Silmarils for a variety of reasons:

1) appreciation for beauty and desire to make beautiful things
2) intellectual challenge (to keep his mind off problems with Valar/family? or just because he liked challenges?)
3) desire to make something that would never die or decay (possibly because of his mother's death)
4) sensing a threat in Melkor, sought to preserve the Trees' light because he suspected something bad was coming?

Of course, I could be wrong. Who really knows what went on in that mind of his?

[alatar]

First, the Silmarils had to be indestructible as a plot devise. If they were perishable, then Feanor could have destroyed them to spite everyone. Melkor could have done the same instead of bearing them in his Iron Crown. Or, when the War of Wrath was starting to go poorly for him, he could have then just smashed them. Melkor killed the trees; why not the Silmarils too?

And as stated, Feanor wasn't just thinking about Melkor, though I'm sure that stories regarding the same made him want to create something that even Melkor could not taint (as he had all of the rest of the works in Arda). Why not make something that might even confound Manwe or Aule? "Naa naa naa, I'm better than the Valar...Melkor defiled your works but not mine!" Iluvatar made certain things imperishable, and so why not Feanor? He was a little proud ya know...

And they had to resistant to Red Maw digestive systems.

And don't the jewels play some part regarding the end of the world, meaning that they would need to be (to borrow a word) null-entropic?

[Aiwendil]

Alatar wrote:

First, the Silmarils had to be indestructible as a plot devise. If they were perishable, then Feanor could have destroyed them to spite everyone.

Why on earth would he do that? Feanor loved the Silmarils more than anything else (the only possible exception I can think of being his father).

Actually, the Silmarils were destructible. After the darkening of Valinor the Valar asked that Feanor break the Silmarils and use the light trapped within to rekindle the Trees. And he refused. The point was moot because, unbeknownst to them at the time, Melkor had just attacked Formenos. But it remains true that even at the urging of the Valar, even to revive the Two Trees and reverse the Darkening, Feanor would not destroy the Silmarils.

The jewels came close to destruction again when Melkor quarreled with Ungoliant. Ungoliant desired to consume them but Melkor withheld them; this led to the Thieves' Quarrel. The arrival of the Balrogs prevented Ungoliant from consuming them, but the text (LQ2 I believe) clearly indicates that had Ungoliant consumed them they would have perished.

Finally, one may note that the Second Prophecy of Mandos foretells that at the end of the world the Silmarils will in fact be broken and their light will be used to revive the Trees.

So they were not indestructible. They were certainly difficult to damage or destroy, but not impossible.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Why on earth would he do that? Feanor loved the Silmarils more than anything else (the only possible exception I can think of being his father).

Just thought that Feanor, butcherer of Elves and burner of ships, would stop at nothing to possess/retain control of the Jewels. Assume that the Valar were going to take them by force, then I think that Feanor would have destroyed them.

Actually, the Silmarils were destructible. After the darkening of Valinor the Valar asked that Feanor break the Silmarils and use the light trapped within to rekindle the Trees. And he refused. The point was moot because, unbeknownst to them at the time, Melkor had just attacked Formenos. But it remains true that even at the urging of the Valar, even to revive the Two Trees and reverse the Darkening, Feanor would not destroy the Silmarils.

Was it that they could be destroyed, or unlocked/unmade? Maybe it's just semantics, but I can't see 'destroying' the Jewels to get the light out - though removing the light from the same would in effect 'destroy' them. Does that make sense?

The jewels came close to destruction again when Melkor quarreled with Ungoliant. Ungoliant desired to consume them but Melkor withheld them; this led to the Thieves' Quarrel. The arrival of the Balrogs prevented Ungoliant from consuming them, but the text (LQ2 I believe) clearly indicates that had Ungoliant consumed them they would have perished.

Not to quibble ( ), but IMO being consumed was not the same as destruction. Ungoliant would not have cracked them open with her teeth, but they would have been lost in the black hole of her appetite.

Finally, one may note that the Second Prophecy of Mandos foretells that at the end of the world the Silmarils will in fact be broken and their light will be used to revive the Trees.

So they were not indestructible. They were certainly difficult to damage or destroy, but not impossible.

Overall, I will have to agree with you in face of the evidence. Silmarils can be destroyed, but not very easily.