The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2005, 10:53 AM   #1
Thorondor
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Likenesses in Middle Earth

I suppose this can be found in the movies as well as the books, but, I've noticed that certain civilizations in ME correlate with civilizations of the world. For example, Rohan seems to be a much more Nordic, Scandinavian state. It could be guessed that Tolkein designed it after his studies of Beowulf. Minas Tirith has a more regal, Roman feel to it. What are your thoughts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2005, 04:42 PM   #2
burrahobbit
Hidden Spirit
 
burrahobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,424
burrahobbit has just left Hobbiton.
This is a ground beaking discovery, I think. Would you care to expound more upon your thoughts?
__________________
What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?
burrahobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2005, 10:29 AM   #3
Lindolirian
World's Tallest Hobbit
 
Lindolirian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Where the view is long
Posts: 2,117
Lindolirian has just left Hobbiton.
Don't mind burra and his trademark sardonicism, he's just trying to tell you that it's not a new thought. Some threads that I found like this one and this one shed light on the subject, but they're rather old and I don't think anyone would mind discussing it again here. Tom Shippey makes quite a case for it in his analysis of the LotR in Author of the Century, especially the contrast between Rohan and Gondor.
__________________
'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end."
Lindolirian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2005, 11:24 AM   #4
Gurthang
Sword of Spirit
 
Gurthang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oh, I'm around.
Posts: 1,401
Gurthang has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

That's something I've thought about a little, too.

It seems to me that folks like the Haradrim or Easterlings would be much akin to native Africans, or perhaps Middle Easterners. Or the dwarves of the Iron Hills would be cold dwelling people, much like Russians.
__________________
I'm on a Mission from God.
Gurthang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2005, 11:34 AM   #5
Luinalatawen
Wight
 
Luinalatawen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
Luinalatawen has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Luinalatawen
I most definitely agree - there are many similarities between the races of ME and the races of our world. But this then brings up the issue of racism in the works of Tolkien, which I presume has also been discussed at length here somewhere (yes, it has). I wonder if this was intentional or not. Perhaps Tolkien made the Haradrim slant-eyed because humans seem to tend to consider their own race 'good' and other races that they don't understand 'weird,' etc (not necessarily 'bad'). But is the fact that they sided with Sauron saying something else? If each ME race is truly representative of a race in our culture, what does that say about the sides of good and evil in the war of the ring?
__________________
My philosophy: A chapter of a Tolkien book a day keeps Sauron's hitmen away.
Luinalatawen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2005, 08:05 PM   #6
Shelob
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Shelob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At the abysmal Abyss Mall.
Posts: 276
Shelob has just left Hobbiton.
Just to consider...

It could just be to ground the novel for his readers too. Most people don't enjoy reading something if they feel completely at a lost as to how to picture/see things. By having the different cultures 'resemble' (sorry, but I can't think of a better phrase than that or 'harken back to') cultures that everyone is already familiar with the reader is able to focus more on the story without worrying about what everything is 'supposed' to look like. By giving the cultures 'familiar faces' it guarantees that the more important parts of the novel (the story, the history, the characters, the good vs. evil...what-have-you) aren't ignored by a reader trying to make sense of the world.

The other thing to consider, and it kind of works in with the idea of racism and considering other races to be 'weird', is that the Lord of the Rings was written as if it could be a history/mythological-history of Europe and that any history of Europe would need to include expanations for the hints of other cultures they (the common people) would have. This is especially true if you have got a Roman-like civilization that expands across many cultures and trades information/goods between them.

And finally...
Originally posted by Luinalatawen
Quote:
If each ME race is truly representative of a race in our culture, what does that say about the sides of good and evil in the war of the ring?
Or the sides of 'good and evil' in our own world? No?
__________________
A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name ~Evan Esar.
Pan for Everyone!
Shelob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:30 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.