Nasty Tricksy Sauron - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morsul the Dark · 08-18-2004, 03:02 PM

Ok I searched for this and I couldn't find it I had this thought and I figured for my 1000th post(yahoo) I would do a very thoughtfilled post.

When Pippin looks into the plantir he sees Sauron, and he sees a glimpse of the invasion on Minas Tirith. Sauron thinks Pippin has the ring and would think he's protected by strong forces.

So isnt it possible Sauron "slippied up" and showed his plan on purpose thinking the host would go to Minas Tirith most liikely taking Pippin with them. isnt it possible he was trying to trap the ring in Minas Tirith so all he would have to do is kill everyone then go through the city looking for it?

I think it was a trap, a trap that backfired, but a trap none-the-less

Hookbill the Goomba · 08-18-2004, 03:14 PM

Very good point,
I think that may be true as Sauron knows that there are people with the strength of will to weald it (namely Aragorn) and after the battle at Pelenor Gandalf make the little speech about it in Aragorn's tent. So He is almost convinced that Pippin had the ring, I think this is what he thought;

"Well, that Halfling had the ring. That dunadain must have got it off him as he has
Will enough to weald it. They won the battle at Pelenor dew to its power. So now they are getting in over their heads and going to try and get me at my own gates... Fools!"

I always liked that quote from the puppet version of LotR (See Middle Earth Mirth I think) where sauron says (In the palantir) "Hello, Saruman, oops wrong number." That kind of sums up what I think was going on. Also the BBC radio version shows this when Pippin reports what he has seen;
Sauron: Why have you neglected to call? Wait? You are not Saruman! Who are you?

And so on.

NightKnight · 08-18-2004, 03:29 PM

I don't think it was. It says somewhere (I don't have the books in English, or even nearby) that Sauron must have thought that Saruman had Pippin imprisoned, and that he was using it as a form of torture.

I agree with them. He knew Saruman had a palantir, they had communicated through it. He had no reason to think that someone else had taken Saruman's palantir. After all, Orthanc was pretty untakable (does this word exist?

). And he sent the nazgul to fetch Pippin (and possibly the Ring, or at least news about it).

Afterwards, when Aragorn revealed himself, I don't think he got the chance to set a trap. Aragorn bent the palantir from his will, and saw the threat from the Corsairs in time to stop it.

It was after Pelennor, when Aragorn & co. marched towards Morannon, that he set the trap.

Sorry about the messy post.

Kuruharan · 08-18-2004, 06:30 PM

I fear that there is some confusion between the book and the movie. In the book, Pippin does not foresee the attack on Minas Tirith. All he saw was Barad-dur, the Nazgul, and then Sauron.

From what Pippin reported Sauron as saying, I think NightKnight is correct as to what Sauron was thinking at the time.

Morsul the Dark · 08-18-2004, 09:02 PM

Oh right! I would now ask the moderator to move this for me please thank you and sorry for the inconvenience I will repay by being more careful

lotrfreak90 · 09-05-2004, 03:58 PM

Sorry but Kuru haren pippin still saw the on coming threat and possibly thought that the first logical place for sauron to attank would be minas tirith

in conclusion i think that this is why peter jackson added this part and further more pippin could have had this thought going through his mind and thought that it was another effect of the palantir

~landis ~

Boromir88 · 09-05-2004, 05:06 PM

NightKnight I think the word you are looking for is "indestructable." For really it talks about Orthanc being indestructable, sort of protected by this magic, something so strong that Ents were bruising themselves to try and destroy it. But, I do believe untakable is a word, lol.

As for the question of was Sauron trying to set a "trap." I think it's possible, in fact very likely, that Sauron would try and trap Pippin, Aragorn...etc into Minas Tirith, thinking it is a sure victory. Of course it backfired.

As Kuruharan said, there's nothing ever saying that Sauron showed Pippin the assault on Minas Tirith. LOTRfreak your statement about "maybe Pippin assumed" has no proof of ever happening. So you can't say it did, it's possible, but it would only be a conjecture and can't write it off as a "fact."

lotrfreak90 · 09-05-2004, 05:41 PM

i aggre and apologize it was merely a suggestioni didnt want to advertise it as a fact (just like the entwives (-

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08-18-2004, 03:02 PM	#1
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	Nasty Tricksy Sauron Ok I searched for this and I couldn't find it I had this thought and I figured for my 1000th post(yahoo) I would do a very thoughtfilled post. When Pippin looks into the plantir he sees Sauron, and he sees a glimpse of the invasion on Minas Tirith. Sauron thinks Pippin has the ring and would think he's protected by strong forces. So isnt it possible Sauron "slippied up" and showed his plan on purpose thinking the host would go to Minas Tirith most liikely taking Pippin with them. isnt it possible he was trying to trap the ring in Minas Tirith so all he would have to do is kill everyone then go through the city looking for it? I think it was a trap, a trap that backfired, but a trap none-the-less __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

08-18-2004, 03:14 PM	#2
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	Very good point, I think that may be true as Sauron knows that there are people with the strength of will to weald it (namely Aragorn) and after the battle at Pelenor Gandalf make the little speech about it in Aragorn's tent. So He is almost convinced that Pippin had the ring, I think this is what he thought; "Well, that Halfling had the ring. That dunadain must have got it off him as he has Will enough to weald it. They won the battle at Pelenor dew to its power. So now they are getting in over their heads and going to try and get me at my own gates... Fools!" I always liked that quote from the puppet version of LotR (See Middle Earth Mirth I think) where sauron says (In the palantir) "Hello, Saruman, oops wrong number." That kind of sums up what I think was going on. Also the BBC radio version shows this when Pippin reports what he has seen; Sauron: Why have you neglected to call? Wait? You are not Saruman! Who are you? And so on. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

08-18-2004, 03:29 PM	#3
NightKnight Lost among the Stars Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hiding in Childhood (Sweden) Posts: 2,690	I don't think it was. It says somewhere (I don't have the books in English, or even nearby) that Sauron must have thought that Saruman had Pippin imprisoned, and that he was using it as a form of torture. I agree with them. He knew Saruman had a palantir, they had communicated through it. He had no reason to think that someone else had taken Saruman's palantir. After all, Orthanc was pretty untakable (does this word exist? ). And he sent the nazgul to fetch Pippin (and possibly the Ring, or at least news about it). Afterwards, when Aragorn revealed himself, I don't think he got the chance to set a trap. Aragorn bent the palantir from his will, and saw the threat from the Corsairs in time to stop it. It was after Pelennor, when Aragorn & co. marched towards Morannon, that he set the trap. Sorry about the messy post. __________________ There are three kinds of people in this world. Those who can count, and those who can't.

08-18-2004, 06:30 PM	#4
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	I fear that there is some confusion between the book and the movie. In the book, Pippin does not foresee the attack on Minas Tirith. All he saw was Barad-dur, the Nazgul, and then Sauron. From what Pippin reported Sauron as saying, I think NightKnight is correct as to what Sauron was thinking at the time. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

08-18-2004, 09:02 PM	#5
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	Oh right! I would now ask the moderator to move this for me please thank you and sorry for the inconvenience I will repay by being more careful __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

09-05-2004, 03:58 PM	#6
lotrfreak90 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Penns Woods (pensylvania) Posts: 12	Contradiction Sorry but Kuru haren pippin still saw the on coming threat and possibly thought that the first logical place for sauron to attank would be minas tirith in conclusion i think that this is why peter jackson added this part and further more pippin could have had this thought going through his mind and thought that it was another effect of the palantir ~landis ~

09-05-2004, 05:06 PM	#7
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,518	Who knows. NightKnight I think the word you are looking for is "indestructable." For really it talks about Orthanc being indestructable, sort of protected by this magic, something so strong that Ents were bruising themselves to try and destroy it. But, I do believe untakable is a word, lol. As for the question of was Sauron trying to set a "trap." I think it's possible, in fact very likely, that Sauron would try and trap Pippin, Aragorn...etc into Minas Tirith, thinking it is a sure victory. Of course it backfired. As Kuruharan said, there's nothing ever saying that Sauron showed Pippin the assault on Minas Tirith. LOTRfreak your statement about "maybe Pippin assumed" has no proof of ever happening. So you can't say it did, it's possible, but it would only be a conjecture and can't write it off as a "fact."

09-05-2004, 05:41 PM	#8
lotrfreak90 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Penns Woods (pensylvania) Posts: 12	i aggre and apologize it was merely a suggestioni didnt want to advertise it as a fact (just like the entwives (- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ __________________ Landis L. T. Z. _____________________________________________ And they shall soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not grow feint, those who hope in the lord. {Isaiah 40:31}