Hounds or other dogs?

[Aldaron]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 17</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
I was reading in the Silm last night and read the story of Beren and Luthien. They were assisted greatly by the hound, Huan. Does Tolkien use any hounds or dogs anywhere else in LotR or in HoME?

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[burrahobbit]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hidden Spirit
Posts: 639</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

Farmer Maggot had three in the Fellowship of the Ring. Grip, Fang, and Wolf if I remember correctly.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

[Inziladun]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 138</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

Saruman said of the Rohirrim &quot;....their brats roll on the floor among the dogs&quot; in Two Towers.

Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. </p>

[HerenIstarion]

Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 835
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

Me, sir!’ cried Sam, springing up like a dog invited for a walk

It may be assumed therefore that other hobbits beside Maggot had dogs too, and were walking around with those

In front of him lights sprang out in the gloaming; dogs barked; feet came running. Before he got to the lane’s end there was Farmer Cotton with three of his lads, Young Tom, Jolly, and Nick, hurrying towards him. They had axes in their hands, and barred the way.

Dogs were kept at Bree too:

The landlord keeps a little dog
that is mighty fond of jokes;
When there's good cheer among the guests,
He cocks an ear at all the jests
and laughs until he chokes

'These black men,' said the landlord lowering his voice. 'They're looking for Baggins, and if they mean well, then I'm a hobbit. It was on Monday, and all the dogs were yammering and the geese screaming

Dogs were used as blindmen's guides as well:

Gimli laughed suddenly. `A merry troop of fools we shall look! Will Haldir lead us all on a string, like many blind beggars with one dog? But I will be content, if only Legolas here shares my blindness.'

It was said above that dogs were used in Rohan too (Saruman's citation)
Gollum also now and again is compared with dog (he sprang up with dog like delight, he watched every morsel like a hungry dog etc)

Dogs were well known even to ents:

Beaver the builder, buck the leaper,
Bear bee-hunter, boar the fighter;
Hound is hungry, hare is fearful

[Odysseus819]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
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Re: Hounds or other dogs?

Wow -- excellent post, H-I.

</p>

[HerenIstarion]

Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 844
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

*bows*

Thank you, kind sir

[enep]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 393</TD><TD><img src=http://www.dodgywebsite.homestead.com/files/Kungfu_01.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

How can you come up with so many references that quickly, H-I? I guess that explains your talent for Quotable Quotes <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

- enep</p>

[galpsi]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Unquiet Dead
Posts: 1124</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

The Prof was partial to dogs, no?

Like Sam and Gollum are compared to dogs, Wormtongue was said to come to Saruman's call, &quot;crawling almost like a dog.&quot;

The Hobbit, of course, has Beorn's serving dogs but also the hunting hounds of the wood-elves.

And then there's Garm. But these are not actually from LoTR or HoME.

</p>

[Sharkû]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hungry Ghoul
Posts: 719</TD><TD><img src=http://www.tolkiens-legacy.de/draugen.jpg WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

At least he certainly is partial to cats. 'Cats belong to the fauna of Mordor in my eyes' in one of his later letters, and the cats of Beruthiel...


Sharkû, cat-keeper

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[Aldaron]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 19</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

I guess I have plenty of places to watch out for mention of dogs as I work my way through all of Tolkien. I was wondering about cats, too, and Sharku seems to suggest that the Professor thought them evil creatures. HerenIstarion may have access to some secret CD-Rom similar to the one I have with the complete canon of Sherlock Holmes. It makes it so very easy to search for certain things. Would that we had one for LotR and The Hobbit. But this has been a good discussion for which I am grateful to all.

</p>

[red]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 204</TD><TD><img src=http://www.bestanimations.com/Science/Biology/DNA/DNA-02.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

Dogs! <img src=biggrin.gif ALT="">

If anyone ever wants to talk dogs, they are my FAVORITE subject! <img src=biggrin.gif ALT="">

-réd (whose greatest hero is really Huan, after all. hehe. And I had you all fooled into thinking it was Elrond. <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> )

<blockquote><font size=2>

"He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer."</p>

-A Short Rest, The Hobbit</p></blockquote></p>

[Orald]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice
Posts: 631</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

Did you watch the Westminster Dog show last week? <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

[amyrlis]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 52</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

I love dogs too! I have a 90 lb lab named Zeke who carries around a big black hard rubber bone which I have dubbed 'Grond' because it feels like the 'hammer of the underworld' when it's dropped on my foot!

-amyrlis</p>

[Amandil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 95</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

Back to Huan.
In the Silmarillion, references to Huan are made stating:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> &quot;Now chief of the wolfhounds that followed Celegorm was named Huan. He was not born in Middle-earth, but came from the Blessed Realm; for Oromë had given him to Celegorm long agon in Valinor, and there he had followed the horn of his master, before evil came.&quot; <hr></blockquote>
and
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> &quot;..for nothing could escape the sight and scent of Huan, nor could any enchantment stay him, and he slept not, neither by night or day.&quot; <hr></blockquote>
Later, while assisting Lúthien to escape :
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> &quot;Then he led her by secret ways out of Nargothrond, and they fled together; and he humbled his pride and suffered her to ride upon him in the fashion of a steed, even as the Orcs did upon great wolves.&quot; <hr></blockquote>
So we have seen that Huan is some great breed of wolfhound, and that he had many special abilities.
We see that he could fit inside the secret ways of Nargothrond and yet was great enough to carry a rider, like a horse.

Later, he fights Carcharoth, the Red Maw, greatest of all wolves who is described thusly:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> &quot;Switfly the wolf grew, until he could creep into no den, but lay huge and hungry before the feet of Morgoth.&quot; <hr></blockquote>
Carcharoth is also described as &quot;unsleeping&quot;.

I have always seen the Hound of Valinor as being the same size as Carcharoth.
The trouble is, I see Clifford, Hound of Valinor if I let my attention wander. <img src=tongue.gif ALT="">

How large do other people envisage Huan? How about Carcharoth? Are they just large versions of normal animals with special abilities, or are they larger than that?



</p>

[Aldaron]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 90</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Hounds or other dogs?

I'm much surprised that after all this time this discussion goes on. And I'm much obliged. I envision an Irish Wolfhound in looks and texture of coat, though perhaps a bit more muscular, like a Great Dane. The wolfhound has been bred back from extinction so we don't really know how large the original wolfhounds were. I also envision a temperament similar to an Irish Wolfhound or a Scottish Deerhound, friendly and family oriented but capable of doing the job for which they were bred. I don't know if this fits Huan or not. Thanks again, Amandil, for the quotes.

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