Matrix Revolutions... not a rival for ROTK

[Iarhen]

Well, I just came back from seeing the Matrix: Revolutions...<P>And it SUCKED BIG TIME! God.. I was expecting so much more... Not what I just saw...<P>The thing is that all the media hype surrounding which movie was gonna make the biggest impact this season... Well, after I seeing what I saw, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King is gonna blow M: Revolutions totally out of the water...<P>Im so very disappointed... My guess is that the Wachowiski brothers ran out of ideas just after finishing the first movie...<P>And even though I give them respect for a wonderful idea for a start, they are not even close to the mud beneath JRRT's feet!<P>Oh well... and to think that I preffered to see this movie instead of studying... Im so angry about it!<P>Im just gonna go to sleep watching my ROTK trailer and thinking about the good times ahead...

[Imladris]

Well, I'm sorry you disliked the movie (I thought it was excellent myself). However, I don't think that comparing Matrix and RotK is really the purpose of this forum, considering<P>1. They are two entirely different stories<BR>2. This forum is for discussing LotR.<P>But this, of course, is for the Administrators to decide.<P>Imladris

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Yep...I couldn't stay out of this. So, Vana: There's no need to insult somebody due to his/her opinions and there's no reason to yell like that. Calm down. Everybody can't prefer same things as you. Personally I loved the first Matrix film but the second was a little disappointment. I haven't seen the third one yet but I'm looking forward to it. I agree that RotK will surely be better than Matrix Revolutions which is only good thing when thinking the possible awards that it'll "steal" from the Revolutions.

O.K, this may sound, well Gollumish, but that wasn't me. That was my Matrix loving friend who posted that one. She got me logged onto this website so i could ask a question, then decided to mess around on my name. My sincerest apologies on my friends behalf. Sorry!

[Ainaserkewen]

I have to agree with the original poster(slightly) There was quite a bit of media hype, but it kind of deflated at the seems...kind of disapointed myself, but then, my heart really belongs to LOTR and I hope that it's comming will "blow the matrix out of the water" Not dissing any Matrix lovers. On another note, I don't think the new Harry Potter will be any competition either.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Vana, you are responsible for any posting done with your ID, so you could have edited or deleted that post. Since writing in all caps is considered shouting on the internet and therefore bad manners, I have deleted that post. If there is something Tolkien-related to be discussed on this thread, it may continue - as long as it is done politely. However, if not, I will close and delete it. We welcome various opinions here on the Downs, but we do not condone an impolite, unfriendly tone.

[Iarhen]

Im sorry if my previous post Offended anyone, but that was not my intention. My intention when creating this new thread was to cover the surrounding media hype between the releases of the final installments of 2 of the greatest trilogies of our time, and my confidence that ROTK will be a much better movie than Revolutions. <P>That’s how I feel that the M:R release and ROTK is related… the competition that has been created by the media among those 2 movies and the 3rd installment of Harry Potter.

[Olorin_TLA]

Matrix Revolutions is one of the best films I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of ggreat films from all "genres", backgrounds, times, etc, so don't think I say that without it having competetion to tremble at.<P>It's a CLIMAX, by the way. It's the second HALF of Reloaded, not "a sequel"...so all comments about it not devolping characters (and it does actually) more than any other film in history should remember that the situation really is desperate, they ahven't got time for chats about their favouirte type of cake.<P>It's my favourite film, fullstop (note: stories for me (and all art) have a scale, but there is a point where they just go off the scale into an infinite sky where ones which are too good to be called "worse" than eachother coexsit as the Best). And then in a month, Return of the King will take the Honour.

[lindil]

I must confess one of my first impulses after seeing Matrix: revolutions was to come and post on the Downs! So thanks Iarhen for figuring out a thin veil ot tolkieninity to justify it. <P>First things first. <P>Matrix 1-3 are movies as are PJ's adaptations. Everything said about LotR in this post refers NOT to JRRT's writings.<P>I will begin with the fact that the Matrix 1-3 has one gigantic edge over the [PJ] LotR.<P>The Wachowski brothers are not 'adapting' [i.e. distorting] anything. They have their vision of their story.<P>The W. bro's need only live up to the level of the first movie. Opinions seem to vary on this to a far greater degree than the generally accepted opinion by most folks around here that Matrix I was pretty incredible. I consider Matrix I to be a a 99.9% perfect movie. Characters, concept, script/delivery [ "MRrrr. Anderson, it seems you have been living TWO lives...] spec effects, martial arts, the whole tone and feel were as close to a perfect creation as any movie has ever acheived for this aging reviewer.<P>FotR - I have opined at considerable length in the past on this forum so the short version is... theater version B-. Extended version, A-. <P>Sadly my appreciation of the Ext. FotR has gone up after seeing TTT. For me PJ gets very high grades for casting [Elrond being a notable exception] and scenery. The additional Rivendell and Lorien scenes in the Ext version where exactly what the FotR needed. More elvishness to balance the extremely expanded fighting scenes. <P>For me the 2nd Matrix movie was great. Not as perfect as I, but both stronger [density of plot, martial arts, character development] and weaker [script, delivery]. I saw it 3 times in the theater, and would have seen it a few more had circumstances allowed.<BR>The ending left me with dozens of Matrix cosmology questions that I enjoyed reading about and discussing with friends for the entire period between II and III.<P>In stark contrast, TTT left me wondering if PJ would 'adapt' the ROtK as poorly as he did TTT.<P>TTT stands less chance of improving with an extended version I am afraid, because it's sins are not of ommision, but of alteration.<BR>Everyone knows the list of griefs which the purists like myself are so scandalized by so I will refrain. A few more Treebeard scenes and a longer battle at Helms Deep [?!?] are to my mind unlikely to do much to repair the damage to the story caused by the gratuitous scenes of Wargs, Faramir's semi-evil twin etc, etc... Again the scenery was great, but PJ trying to imrove on JRRT is almost always the weakest points of the film. However when we get to see Howe and Lee's art come to life or Gandalf or Frodo deliver excellent lines PJ's assaults on the story are thankfully, for the moment forgotten.<P>Matrix III - <P>After II, I honestly expected more fights and destruction. III had the pleasant feel of old friends or lovers saying good bye for ever.<P>Nostalgic, reflective, sacrificial.<P>Many riddles are answered, most of it makes a fair bit if sense in terms of internal consistency, and the acting was superb. <P>One particularly nice touch was the dorky kid from Animatrix finally coming into his own in horrific circumstances.<P>---<BR> Oddly enough their were previews to the ROtK at the begining, and the could hardly have picked a more boring collection of scenes to include. OF course it hardly matters because if you saw 1 and 2 you will almost certainly see 3. <P>There did not seem to be too many changes [thank God] excepting the inevitable Aragorn <I>finally</I> gets Anduril and assumes the mantle of heir Isuldur which he should have had in the first book.<P>----<P>In short even though my heart is given to the Legendarium, the Matrix movies have so far proven a more enjoyable cinematic experience. <P>I would not take matrix 1-3 to a desert island as my only fiction, I would put the Silmarillion, LotR, UT, Tad Williams Otherland series and maybe one or 2 other things ahead of it [ such as Tim Zahns 5 post Return of the Jedi Star Wars books] but as far as Movies, for me Matrix I-III are standard for all other [action] movies to [for better or worse] be measured by.<P>one further thing, ironically enough, done more faithfully, the LotR did not even need to come off as primarily 'action' movies.<P>Had the original proportions in the books been adhered to more closely LotR would have been by and large unclassifiable [at least until RotK].

[Finwe]

I was also looking forward to a bit more action in Matrix III, although I did enjoy those scenes where the dock was overrun. When I saw the RotK trailer at the beginning, I literally squeaked, and started quoting all the lines along with the actors. (Yes, that is the measure of my obsession! ) I really didn't have too high expectations of Matrix III, so I wasn't really disappointed. Although, I will have very high expectations of RotK, and I'm sure that PJ won't let us down (at least, he won't too much!).

[HCIsland]

Considering that Revolutions was shot at the same time as Reloaded, I don't see how people should have expected these films to be much different. Essentially, they are the same film split into two parts. I suspect those that enjoyed Reloaded will enjoy Revolutions and vice-versa.<P>H.C.

[Eurytus]

To me the first Matrix is an almost perfect film. That is not to say that it is one of the best films of all time, just that it achieves exactly what it sets out to do. The story arc is weighted to perfection.<P>For that reason the Matrix sequels have been a grave disappointment to me. Whilst not the worst sequel of all time (in terms of drop in quality Highlander II and Jaws IV take the grand prize), they did represent a big drop in quality over the first film. For me the flaws are;<BR>(ps this addresses Matrix Reloaded only at this point)<P>Lack of a sense of danger. Apart from the fight between Trinity and the Agent there was no danger at all. I never felt Neo was threatened and suddenly you have the near-ludicrous scene of Morpheus battling with loads of Smith clones, when one was more than sufficient to kick his *** in the first film.<P>The fights themselves? Well no sense of inertia and therefore it just seemed like they were dancing. (this can be a common flaw in wire-fu). See Bruce Lee films for how martial arts fights should be done and look brutal. Even Steven Seagal films have more realistic fights.<P>The Burly Brawl, quite apart from feeling the need for a fight to have an 'official' name it continues the tendency for the name of bits of the film to basically sound like Video Games levels. (Burly Brawl, the Highway Chase etc). Also, why didn't Neo immediately fly away when things got bad? Oh yeah, it looked cool.<P>Suddenly Neo has lost the ability to simply 'explode' Agents and has to pose about with kung fu. He seemingly no longer needs to dodge bullets but does need to dodge fists??<P>Far too much bull****-speak. Anyone who has seen the Sphinx in the movie Mystery Men will know what I mean here.<P>The Zion Rave. Nothing further needs to be said here.<P>And the film does not deal with what is to me the really interesting question. If you finally succeeded in freeing everyone wouldn't the majority lynch you for it. What actually is the problem with being in the matrix?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This thread is on the brink of closure. Any posts which do not manage to include something LotR or Tolkien-related will be deleted. This is <B>not</B> a Matrix forum! If you wish to discuss the movie, fine, but if you do so on <B>this</B> forum (I'm quite sure there are fora out there for Matrix fans), it must be related to the theme of this site.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

For a film that was meant to be a climax, Revolutions came off like a huge anticlimax.<P>Return of the King, however, cannot be anything but one of the most amazing climaxes in cinematic history. Yes, yes, I guess I'll have to wait until I actually see RotK, but signs are that the Matrix's final two films will prove to be a very lightweight comparison to Peter Jackson's baby.<P>As for the Oscars, who is seriously still in doubt as to who will win? I will eat my hat if Jackson doesn't win The Big Two.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I will eat my hat if Jackson doesn't win The Big Two.

I can eat your hat too. Seriously, are there any movies that would beat RotK? First I was little worried about Matrix Revolutions that it would shadow the great triumph of RotK but... Nah, I don't think so!

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Seriously, are there any movies that would beat RotK? First I was little worried about M:Revolutions that it would shadow the great triumph of RotK but...nah, I don't think so! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well neither Reloaded nor Revolutions was ever considered serious contenders for any big Oscars. As for competition, there's still lots coming. A front runner may be Peter Weir's Master and Commander with Oscar magnet Russell Crowe. That's out soon.<P>H.C.

[Failivrin]

i thought matri was pretty good and reloaded was rubbish and then today i saw revolutions and i htought it was very good. the acting is good, the music fits and it had more of a plot than eh second one. i never bought into teh matrix hype (i only saw the original in about march) so perhaps i have the view of an un-matrixy person.<P>but of course, it will be no competion for ROTK.<P>as for the publicity, i only ever saw two adverts for it and i never saw a trailer. i saw much more for the reloaded dvd.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

<P>Once again, this forum is for discussion of the movies based on Tolkien's books. If you wish to compare the Matrix and Middle-Earth, talk about the similarities of Neo's and Frodo's roles, or debate the difference between Trinity and Arwen, go ahead! That could be very interesting. But if you only want to talk about the Matrix movie, please do so on a Matrix forum. Thanks.

[Iarhen]

Im sorry, Estelyn T., but the fact that we are comparing the media hype and the expectatives that both Matrix Revolutions adn ROTK have created, and most importantly, their competition as the end of the year's biggest movie, is a common ground for both movies.<P>If we are discussing the movie, we dont necessarily have to focus on the characters or the plot, but also in the special effects, and like in this case, the media hype surrounding the movies and the media created competition among ROTK and MRvls

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I can live with that, Iarhen, but there are several posts which discuss only Matrix with no connection to LotR. I was not trying to restrict the subjects, but rather to show that there has to be some relation to our Tolkien board.

[ArathorofBarahir]

Personally I can't stand any of the Matrix films and think that pale in comparision to the Lord of the Rings movies.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

I saw Revolutions today...it was weird. Agent Elrond was great...but Trinity took too long to die, and seemingly without any pain...and I was wondering by the end. What is 'real'? That real world is still a creation of the Architect. So it can't be really 'real', can it? A Matrix within a Matrix perhaps?<P>Well, at any rate LOTR is much less confusing, and the films have had better pacing. M:R constantly alternated between mind-numbingly slow (ie all the dialogue, especially from Morpheus...) and extraordinarily fast and way too many flashing lights. Like the flickering thing where Neo is blinded...argh!<BR>But as for comparing Trinity to Arwen...I personally think Trinity shows the power of love much more than Arwen ever did...she just sat around and waited in hope. Mind you, being around 6000 years ago, you could hardly expect her to go along and fight. But then Éowyn did...ah well, I'm confusing myself...But on the other hand, Trinity went every step of the way to help Neo until she died.<BR>As for Frodo and Neo...well both are kind of sacrificing themselves, aren't they? Neo allowed himself to turn into Agent Elrond and exploded himself to destry them all. (Well that's what it looked like to me!) Frodo gave up any real chance of comfort and contentment so that the Shire might be left alone.

[Olorin_TLA]

Giant spoielrs above. Like, Unicron sized. and nastier.

[Iarhen]

I dont think we can compare Arwen and Trinity because, I think, Trinity has a bigger and more active role. In the books, we hear about Arwen a couple of times and only in peaceful ones... <P>And in the movie, well, all the fighting is reserved for men. Trintiy has a more active role... Since she is one of the few ones that can truly fight against the Matrix...<P>But even in that arena, Trinity was killed by an agent and got her *** kicked several times when facing one. On the other hand, in the movie, when Arwen faces 8 of the 9 nazgul, she kicks their asses (considering the Nazgul as agents-alike).<P>Both characters are really great, with all their complexities...<P>But I have to correct you in one thing. Arwen does give her life up for Aragorn by becoming human! <P>And, in the movie, she gives Aragorn encouragement when he needs it most (for example, after the warg battle, when he is in the river, and Arwen "resurrects" him from afar), and when she encourages him to face his destiny, reassuring him that he will win where Isildur failed...

[lindil]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Return of the King, however, cannot be anything but one of the most amazing climaxes in cinematic history. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well considering that PJ is only batting 5oo [by my standards at least] he could just as easily spoil RotK in the way he did with much of TTT. Of course I value the possibility of a mostly good LotR movie more than the justice that would be justifiably meted out if PJ's editorializing and rewriting of the story was called on the carpet and RotK soundly denounced by 'purist' fan and critic alike. <P>Imagine if Denethor is lame, or 'Faramir' never becomes Faramir, or the whole Aragorn/Eowyn thing is botched. PJ has shown himself ='ly capable of doing LotR justice, and of confirming JRRT's stated fears of how a movie version could seriously tarnish LotR.<P>I don't flinch when reading LotR.<P>I would rather not do it when watching it either.

[the phantom]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> in the movie, when Arwen faces 8 of the 9 nazgul, she kicks their asses <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>When did that happen? I seem to remember Arwen running from them until she got safely across her daddy's river (which swept them away).<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In stark contrast, TTT left me wondering if PJ would 'adapt' the ROtK as poorly as he did TTT. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> he could just as easily spoil RotK in the way he did with much of TTT <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No arguments here, Lindil. I'm worried about the same thing. TTT had some great moments (the music really helped) but it wasn't nearly as good as FOTR. But perhaps I say that because I'm a fan of the books. Maybe people who've never read the books thought it was great, after all they wouldn't be complaining about alterations since they would be unaware that any were made.<P>FOTR is probably my favorite movie, but I would rank TTT behind the Matrix movies (and some others).<P>It will all come down to ROTK. If it's awesome then LOTR will be my favorite. If PJ messes with it like he did TTT then I'll rank the Matrix trilogy higher.<P>(but I don't think either one can beat Star Wars )

[lindil]

I am much in agreement with you Phantom, but TTT was such a pitiful revision imo, and the Matrix was so incredibly well done, that RotK will have to be essentially perfect [and I will have to skip several especially poor TTT scenes when I watch it] for LotR to surpass The matrix.<P>Of course imo The Legendarium as a [fragmented] whole far surpasses any other work of Co-Creation in Film or text. Tolkien was the master, and the further PJ strays from the story as given, the further away from 'Truth' the movies seem to land.<P>As for the Star Wars movies, I have come to far prefer the many dozens of books describing the post RotJ period. There were some duds, but the characters are far more fleshed out and we get to see Han, Luke and Leia marry, raise kids, suffer many and indeed the most tragic of wounds, and indeed, we get to follow them [through the eyes of many different writers] far closer than we ever see the entiire life of anyone in the Legendarium [the Hapless Turin may be an exception.]<P>But these are for me essentially mind candy, and I have imbalanced my delicte [mental] spleen on more than one occasion by over consumption. Rarely so with Tolkien, with him their is Fiber, enzymes, minerals and a host of other balanced 'nutrients'.

[HCIsland]

Sorry but other than the pretty pictures and an interesting concept, the latest two matrix movies have nothing to offer. Reloaded was at least some fun (especially the freeway chase) but Revolutions was just flat.<P>Revolutions spoilers coming.<P>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR> *<BR>*<BR>*<P>It's pretty sad when the two main characters die and the audience is left completely dry eyed. There wasn't a single character I could care about at the end and when that happens, how the hell could you care about the plot. They could have wiped out Zion and I would have left the theatre feeling pretty much the same.<P>H.C.<p>[ November 12, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Ok, firstly, I'm very sorry, I forgot to warn you about the spoilers!!! Oops... <P>Oh, HC, my friend was blubbing like a baby when...um...the first main character died. Can't see why, personally...no evident pain, extraordinarily long death scene...rather ridiculous really...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But I have to correct you in one thing. Arwen does give her life up for Aragorn by becoming human! <P>And, in the movie, she gives Aragorn encouragement when he needs it most (for example, after the warg battle, when he is in the river, and Arwen "resurrects" him from afar), and when she encourages him to face his destiny, reassuring him that he will win where Isildur failed...<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oops...somehow I forgot those minor details!!!<BR>And as for Aragorn needing encouragement, did he need it in the books? I only recall him feeling slightly lost at that point that Gandalf pointed out the white tree seedling growing.

[Imladris]

Quoted Matrix Revolutions spoiler:<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR>*<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It's pretty sad when the two main characters die and the audience is left completely dry eyed. There wasn't a single character I could care about at the end and when that happens, how the hell could you care about the plot. They could have wiped out Zion and I would have left the theatre feeling pretty much the same.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe dry eyed for you, but I cried my eyes out when Trinity dies and Neo. <P>In a way, LotR and Matrix are very similiar films: they have a bad guy that wants to take over the entire and then they have a good guy that destroys the bad guy (though I'm trying to decide if Aragorn or Frodo would more compare with Neo). Frodo basically gives up his life for Middle-earth, the sacrifice of which culminates in his going back to the Valinor. <P>However you might disagree about character developement and plot (which, I for one, think is interesting), the stories are telling the same story of nobility, sacrifice, and selfless love. <P>That offers a lot, to me.

[lindil]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sorry but other than the pretty pictures and an interesting concept, the latest two matrix movies have nothing to offer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HC Island, phrasing reviews and critiques etc, in the subjective [as in 'I think', 'imo', 'I feel' etc.] has the rather ironic effect of being more objective, because one is conciously stating one's <I>opinion</I>.<P>The Matrix movies[or any other art] have to offer whatever can link with your soul and your perceptions and understanding. Phrasing the above statment as a provable and universally recognizable fact is not too wise. IMO <P>And remember folks, this thread only continues in Lady Estelyn's good graces by being relevant to Tolkien. Hardly too much to ask at a Tolkien Board.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I have not seen Matrix Revolutions (although now I know what happens ), and I only recently saw Reloaded on DVD. And it left me pretty cold, I have to say. It had been a long time since I saw the first Matrix film (which I found to be reasonably enjoyable), and I found the first 20 minutes of Reloaded utterly confusing, that is until I was able to piece together my memory of the plot from the first film. Then I had to watch those first 20 minutes again. It was hardly welcoming to the unitiated. And basically, while I can appreciate the action sequences and the special effects, I just don't "get" the Matrix films.<P>As for the LotR films, well they have a head start for me, since I have been a fan of the books for many years. And, after some intial readjustment, I find myself perfectly able to separate the story told in the films from that told in the books, and enjoy both for what they are. To me, these films are head and shoulders above the Matrix films (well, the two that I have seen).<P>That is my personal opinion, and many of the recent posts on this topic are personal opinion too. But the original question invited opinions on whether the latest Matrix film will surpass RotK at the Box Office.<P>And my opinion on this (based on the films that I have seen) is that RotK will blow Matrix Revolutions away. It seems to me that the LotR films have far more mass appeal than the Matrix films, which have more of a "cult" feel to them. Yes, they look good, but I believe (and this is backed up by reviews that I have read) that the story is just too impenetrable (if indeed there really is any deeper meaning to it than straight action) to appeal to a wide section of the film-going audience. Whereas the LotR films look good as well as having a storyline which is basically pretty simple, most of the complexities of the books having been "ironed out". And while this may upset the book purists, I believe that it does make the films far more accessible to a wider range of people. That is not to label film audiences as thick, but simply to say that I think that most filmgoers (and I include myself here) expect to be far less challenged (in terms of the complexity of the storyline) by their films than by their books.<P>And so, although I suppose that I am biased to a degree, I do see RotK as being a far more successful Box Office (and critical) hit than Matrix Revolutions, just as TTT was more successful than Reloaded.

[Imladris]

If it is good, RotK will be better than Revolutions (of course the fact that I prefer LotR to Matrix has nothing to do with this). I do prefer Lord of the Rings because I think it has more heart, more substance, more depth...I don't know, more something. Unless PJ screws up RotK which I sincerely doubt for some reason, it will be better in a different way than Revolutions.

[Eowyn:Lady of Rohan]

I must disagree with you Imladris. PJ won't mess up on ROTK. Firstly, he made the film in a year and a half. Matrix had to wait for Reloaded and Revolutions. I've seen Reloaded and it wasn't that great. I doubt that Revolutions is any better. Matrix doesn't really have a good storyline. Sure, it's about a guy that's the "savior" of all human race, but it's only skin deep. I know ROTK will leave Matrix Revolutions in the dust. I've seen the preview for ROTK and I'm ready to see it. It's going to be better. I know it.<P>[ November 13, 2003: Message edited by: Eowyn:Lady of Rohan ]<p>[ November 13, 2003: Message edited by: Eowyn:Lady of Rohan ]

[Imladris]

First of all, I never said that RotK wouldn't be good. I said that I doubted PJ would screw it up. Just because he made it in a year and a half doesn't just make it good -- though it does make it more likely that it will be good.<P>As for Neo being the saviour of the human race? He's no more saviour of man than Aragorn is of Middle-earth. They are both figure heads. Granted, Neo is not becoming a king and becoming the leader of his people, but they are both leading a people against a common enemy who is growing stronger (i.e Sauron and Agent Smith), which is more than just skin deep. Matrix is different, just like LotR is different. They both have different and fresh takes on a very common story theme: they both tell stories of nobility and sacrifice (also more than just skin deep). I'm not quite sure what people mean when they say Matrix fell flat, so I don't even know if I'm adressing the point (so forgive me all if I'm just babbling on), but that doesn't change the kernel of either stories.<P>LotR is better than Matrix for a few reasons which I won't go into now because I believe that it has been stated before. However, LotR isn't king and Matrix isn't dirt. They are both grand epics with a story with heart/morals/bravery/nobility to tell. <P>(I hope I haven't gone off topic...if I have, my apoligies to the mods)

[lindil]

Imladris posted: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I hope I haven't gone off topic...if I have, my apoligies to the mods <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If I understand the original impulse of the thread aright, it was not merely to explore and catalog box office numbers but to compare the stories themselves.<P>If I <I>am</I> reading too much into the first post, then perhaps a new 'Matrix/LotR comparisons' thread should be opened in the place of this one, as this is obviously a topic of value, interest, and legitimate forum inquiry to many of us here.<p>[ November 13, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Neo died? I must have missed that.<P>As for the box office, I think The Return of the King will probably take more cash than either one of the first two Lord of the Rings films. That means it will probably take about a hundred times more than the Matrix film.

[kittiegirl]

Yeah, I agree.<P>Well, as much as I love the Matrix(sig)the first film was the best.<BR>And it's all a matter of opinion about if Revolutions suked or not.<BR>If you want to talk about things besides LoTR, then go to another board.<BR>I'm registered on at least 7 others, and i go on them when I get tired of talking about LOTR and need a break.

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> If I understand the original impulse of the thread aright, it was not merely to explore and catalog box office numbers but to compare the stories themselves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Lindil, I agree, and I apolgise if my post gave the impression that I thought that this thread was just about the relative success of the films at the Box Office. As I am not really into the Matrix films, comparing them with the LotR films is not something that iterests me. But it seems to me that it is a perfectly valid discussion to have on this thread.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> As for the box office, I think The Return of the King will probably take more cash than either one of the first two Lord of the Rings films. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree with you here, Eomer. I believe that TTT beat Matrix Reloaded, but that Matrix Revolutions has just trumped TTT. On that basis, I would expect RotK to outsell Revolutions.

[Eurytus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> As for the box office, I think The Return of the King will probably take more cash than either one of the first two Lord of the Rings films. That means it will probably take about a hundred times more than the Matrix film.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with the first part. But even if you said ten times as much money you would be widely exagerating.<BR>It will be doing marvously if it takes twice what Revolutions does.