Thranduil the Goldenhaired? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Falagar · 05-25-2003, 04:51 PM

I recently came across a passage in The War of the Jewels, where Tolkien states the the Sindar had dark hair, and were hard to tell apart from the Noldor exiles. That made me think of Thranduil, who, as far as I have heard, is a Sinda, and yet he is a blonde!

Now, is there something I have missed? Did Tolkien later go back on this statement? Is Thranduil a 'special case', one of the few exceptions? Now that I think of it, somewhere I remember someone mentioning him being akin to Thingol. That would imply him having silver or grey hair, wouldn't it?

Thanks for any reply, I have this weird feeling of this being a very stupid question and that I have overlooked something somewhere...

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Falagar ]

Tar Elenion · 05-25-2003, 08:13 PM

Take the passage as speaking in general terms and everything becomes much clearer. In general the Sindar had dark hair, but not every Sinda was dark-haired. Similarly it was a Noldorin trait to be dark-haired, but not all Noldor were (witness Glorfindel).
Off hand what cause me to think that Thranduil was akin to Thingol was that Celeborn (Thingol's nephew) called Legolas his kin. But this interpretation can be considered supposition, and not dirictly supportable from a genealogy or family tree. I like to imagine that both Thranduil and Amroth were descended from Elmo, younger brother of Elwe and Olwe.

[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ]

Legolas · 05-26-2003, 10:15 AM

Indeed - not every elf of every kindred is going to have the same colour hair. All of the elves came from 144 original elves - they didn't separate into kindreds on the basis of hair colour. Just so happens that some characteristics are more common among each kindred.

05-26-2003, 10:34 AM

In "Unfinished Tales" it says that Thranduil is part silvan (in the Galadrial and celeborn section) which adds to his people's speech... perhaps this too adds to his hair color...

Finwe · 05-26-2003, 03:28 PM

Just as different races of humans have different hair colors, the Elves had different hair colors. The reason Glorfindel had golden hair was that he had Vanyarin blood. Most of the Noldor had dark hair, and I am assuming that all of the Teleri had grey to silver hair. As for the Silvan Elves, they were a mixture of all the Elves who remained. So there could have been Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri in there, who just didn't go to Valinor. Thranduil could have inherited his hair color from an Avar ancestor who was of the kindred of the Vanyar but remained behind.

piosenniel · 05-26-2003, 03:37 PM

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<font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:49 PM January 15, 2004: Message edited by: The Barrow-Wight ]

05-25-2003, 04:51 PM	#1
Falagar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 69	Thranduil the Goldenhaired? I recently came across a passage in The War of the Jewels, where Tolkien states the the Sindar had dark hair, and were hard to tell apart from the Noldor exiles. That made me think of Thranduil, who, as far as I have heard, is a Sinda, and yet he is a blonde! Now, is there something I have missed? Did Tolkien later go back on this statement? Is Thranduil a 'special case', one of the few exceptions? Now that I think of it, somewhere I remember someone mentioning him being akin to Thingol. That would imply him having silver or grey hair, wouldn't it? Thanks for any reply, I have this weird feeling of this being a very stupid question and that I have overlooked something somewhere... [ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Falagar ] __________________ Auta i lomë! Aurë entuluva! "Take no heed! We speak as is right, and as King Finwë himself did before he was led astray. We are his heirs by right and the elder house. Let them sá-sí, if they can speak no better." -Son of the Therindë

05-25-2003, 08:13 PM	#2
Tar Elenion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 369	Take the passage as speaking in general terms and everything becomes much clearer. In general the Sindar had dark hair, but not every Sinda was dark-haired. Similarly it was a Noldorin trait to be dark-haired, but not all Noldor were (witness Glorfindel). Off hand what cause me to think that Thranduil was akin to Thingol was that Celeborn (Thingol's nephew) called Legolas his kin. But this interpretation can be considered supposition, and not dirictly supportable from a genealogy or family tree. I like to imagine that both Thranduil and Amroth were descended from Elmo, younger brother of Elwe and Olwe. [ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ] __________________ Tar-Elenion

05-26-2003, 10:15 AM	#3
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Indeed - not every elf of every kindred is going to have the same colour hair. All of the elves came from 144 original elves - they didn't separate into kindreds on the basis of hair colour. Just so happens that some characteristics are more common among each kindred. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

05-26-2003, 03:28 PM	#5
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Just as different races of humans have different hair colors, the Elves had different hair colors. The reason Glorfindel had golden hair was that he had Vanyarin blood. Most of the Noldor had dark hair, and I am assuming that all of the Teleri had grey to silver hair. As for the Silvan Elves, they were a mixture of all the Elves who remained. So there could have been Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri in there, who just didn't go to Valinor. Thranduil could have inherited his hair color from an Avar ancestor who was of the kindred of the Vanyar but remained behind. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

05-26-2003, 03:37 PM	#6
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Look at these links: HERE Genome and HERE <font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:49 PM January 15, 2004: Message edited by: The Barrow-Wight ] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

05-26-2003, 10:34 AM	#4
MrGreenleaf Guest Posts: n/a	In "Unfinished Tales" it says that Thranduil is part silvan (in the Galadrial and celeborn section) which adds to his people's speech... perhaps this too adds to his hair color...