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#41 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 26
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 6</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/wight.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Female Orcs? No right back at you. <img src=smile.gif ALT=" ![]() They were made of stone. QS is very clear on this point. </p> |
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#42 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 26
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 7</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Female Orcs? Since you doubt me and my obligatory comment to stay on topic, which was very naughty of you to do without research: Quenta c. 1930 The Shaping of Middle-earth p. 82 "The hordes of Orcs he made of stone, but their hearts were of hatred." Quenta Silmarillion c. 1937-38 revisions The Lost Road and Other Writings p. 233 "These Orcs Morgoth made in envy and mockery of the Elves, and they were made of stone, but their hearts of hatred." Tell me again when The Hobbit or There and Back Again was written, and why they aren't made of stone as I said they were, and which you corrected. Please, thank you and whatever else will get an answer. </p> |
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#43 |
Hobbitus Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: South Farthing
Posts: 635
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hobbitus Emeritus
Posts: 567</TD><TD><img src=http://home.att.net/~robertwgardner/lotrmap.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Female Orcs? Well uh... Gee! In the last couple of years, I've never seen that comment or those citations! Everyone always referred to "spawning" or to various things Tolkien said (I think in his letters) regarding the social nature of Orcs. First time I ever heard they were made of stone! I certainly accept your citations. Hmmmmm. But if Tolkien DID later change his mind, then that might supercede his preceding notions. It would fit with Trolls being made in mockery of Ents, and the statement in THE HOBBIT regarding trolls being made of stone and such. Why not use the same manufacturing process with orcs? I must leave it to the more knowing to reconcile the matter! <center><font face=verdana size=1> http://www.barrowdowns.comBarrow-Downs</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000Bare Bones</a>~http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgard...ilthalion.htmlGrand Adventures</a>~http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.aspThe Hobbits</a>~http://www.tolkientrail.comTolkien Trail</a> </center></p>
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Please read my fan fiction novel THE HOBBITS. Wanna hear me read Tolkien? Gilthalion's Grand Adventures! |
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#44 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 26
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 8</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Female Orcs? <blockquote>Quote:<hr> I certainly accept your citations. Hmmmmm. But if Tolkien DID later change his mind, then that might supercede his preceding notions.<hr></blockquote> Is that about the Orcs from slime c. 1917-1930, Orcs from stone c. 1930-1951, Orcs as a spawn of the earth, or as believed by the wise in Valinor; possibly corrupted Elves c. 1952-1955, Orcs as corruted Elves c. 1955-1957, the probability of an Elvish strain in the Orcs c. 1958-1960, or the even later Orcs as corrupted Men c. 1960-? </p> |
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#45 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 46
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 2</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Female Orcs? A few ideas folk, It should be assumed that Orcs breed because: A) They were able to breed with Dunlendings to create Half-Orcs, Neccessitating some compatible form of reproduction. B) They would need some method of reproducing without the aid of Magic or Divine Power as they flourished, even though Morgoth was imprisoned. C) It seems a pretty common theme in all of Tolkien's works that all his Races of people and creatures bred in the standard human fashion(though I can't really explain Trolls or Dragons as there is no reference to their breeding) All in all, If I was a great corruptor of Divine creations I would mock all aspects, perhaps when creating Orcs Morgoth made sure there were both male and female? Cheers </p> |
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#46 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 2</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Female Orcs? but it just doesn't seem right <img src=smile.gif ALT=" ![]() <CENTER> ![]() Come Visit the White Council Where Evil Dares not come <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/councilwhite/" TARGET="_black"> <FONT text-align="center" font-family="Tahoma, Arial" color="#ffffff" font-size="8pt">Click here to jorney to my chamber.</A> The White shall reign</p> |
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#47 |
Deadnight Chanter
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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Deadnight Chanter
Posts: 1484</TD><TD><img src=http://www.animfactory.com/animations/religious/cross/cross_shimmer_md_clr.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bluepal.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Female Orcs? to Bob Wehadababyitsaboy, jallanite, Aiwendil, or any who may have concern Since this topic has it's main concern with orcs, I will ask a question answer to which I once knew, but I've forgotten it. In first age orcs had special name for the Noldor (similar as they called Gondorians Tarks in third). I stumbled upon it somewhere in HoME series, but I can't remember where. Maybe if you remember, it will be very kind of you, for I (oh, shame on me <img src=wink.gif ALT=" ![]() ![]() <a href=http://www.geocities.com/gl_century/Heren.html>GeorgeLashkhi</a> <marquee>...but what they are really like, and what lies beyond them, only those can say who have climbed them...</marquee> </p>
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! |
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#48 | |
Delver in the Deep
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Aotearoa
Posts: 960
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Dig, Dig, Snuffle, Snuffle, Snort, Snort, OOH! Look at this thread!
Quote:
Hobbitus Emeritus seems to give a horribly accurate picture of the Life Cycle of the Female Orc, showing how they would be used if they existed. I think they do exist, in exactly the same way that Dwarf-women do, and that the role of the female is an important comment on what both these races were like. Warlike and insensitive, almost pure Yang/male energy, without the necessary balance. Eventually these races died out, and Men, who were a little more progressive in their attitudes, inherited the earth. The Ents and the Entwives is another (pretty weird) story entirely.
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But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'. |
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#49 | |
Delver in the Deep
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Aotearoa
Posts: 960
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Oh, one more thing.
Quote:
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But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'. |
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#50 | ||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,992
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Hmm. A couple of points:
Quote:
Quote:
Bethberry
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#51 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 25
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To answer your question, no I dont think that there were and female orcs.
Tolkien wrote the books and he alsow created the orcs. I dont know why, but some parts he left out. but it sounds crazy to me to say something like "and the orc-man took the orc-woman's hand and kissed her lips" You have seen the film have you not? well, you saw how the uruk-hais were born if you did, that is how peter jackson thought it would be. and honestly. By my oppinion, there SHOULD be female orcs. Both Melkor ens Sauron took women and men of the elven breed and made the orcs. so did the femail-elves turn into men? Am i wrong? I dunno, but maybe this doesnt make sense. But think about it and make a oppinion of yours. cuz tolkien is dead and cant explain anymore. so its up to all and themselves to belive as they want. thanks for reading.
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Aa' menle nauva calen ar' ta hwesta e'ale' quenle mellomin |
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#52 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
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According to the Silmarillion (which as we all know isn't very accurate), the orcs were mutilated elves. It goes on to say that the orcs still bred like the First-born (aka elves). This was the deed that Iluvatar hated the most.
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Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit ------------~~~~~~~~~~~~~------------ A laita Atar, ar Yondo, ar Ainasule. Ve nes i yessesse na sin, ar yeva tennoio. Nasie. |
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#53 |
Deathless Sun
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I agree with Bekah. I don't think that Morgoth would have "created" or mutilated a species that would have spawned. He wanted to hurt Iluvatar. That was why he probably left female attributes on some Orcs. The thought of a race that ugly and horrible reproducing like the Elves, who were so beautiful and noble, is enough to make anyone sick.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
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#54 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Fair City of Rivendell
Posts: 274
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What of there is now difference between male and female. The could look just the same, fight the same, and even act the same. They would still be a different sex though, right?
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"Kill them all for all I care. You just keep that bow away from me!" |
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#55 |
Deathless Sun
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That's true. Perhaps they resemble the Dwarves to some degree. You can never tell the females apart from the males, and frankly, I don't think I'd want to.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
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#56 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
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Just to lighten the mood - has anyone read Terry Pratchet books?
Particularly the one about Cheery/ Cheri Littlebottom? I forget what it's called. Anyway, the female dwarves are very hard to distinguish from male dwarves, until Cheery decides to change her name and wear skirts and lipstick and earrings. Carry on with the orcs, though...
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Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit ------------~~~~~~~~~~~~~------------ A laita Atar, ar Yondo, ar Ainasule. Ve nes i yessesse na sin, ar yeva tennoio. Nasie. |
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