Were Elves vegetarian?

[draggonklaw]

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I know this may sound like a stupid question, and I haven't even looked in the books yet, but I just thought I'd throw this out to get a speedy reply. For some reason, I can't picture Elves eating the dead flesh of animals. Maybe it's because they are immortal. They seem to be very health conscious (ie. Lembas, Miruvor, etc...). It seems easier (to me) to picture them as vegetarians. Got any thoughts?
Draggonklaw (fka Eledhgil)

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[Gwaihir the Windlord]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

I don't think so. I seem to recall Elves eating various meats at the banquet in Rivendell.

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[Orald]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

How is eating meat not health conscious, does being vegitarian mean that you eat better than someone who isn't?

I don't remember them being vegetarian, but I am sure some of them could be.

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

[The Dagda]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Did they not hunt stags in the Forest of Mirkwood?

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[draggonklaw]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

You're right Durelen. It seems that I did (unwhittingly) suggest that meat-eating is not healthy. I DID mean to suggest that it's not AS healthy as a vegetarian diet (for which there is a super-abundance of scientific evidence prooving the fact beyond dispute).
One thing is for sure. The meat the Elves and other Middle-earthlings ate was a lot healthier than the undergrade, over-injected stuff we get in our supermarkets today! (ie, Mass-production, BSE=Mad Cow, Ecoli, etc...). I made a mistake in projecting my concept of meat into Middle-earth. Sorry 'bout that.
I'd still never offer Elrond a supermaket steak if he came to my house for supper. Though I'd gladly eat whatever he had spread out on his table! I'm not a vegetarian.

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[The Dagda]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Of course, Beorn was vegetarian, and quite possibly Tom Bombadil and Goldberry.

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[draggonklaw]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Yeah Dag, that's an interesting thought. Tom and Goldberry at a lot of fruit. I don't know about Beorn. You've sparked my interest! I'm gonna check it out.

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[the Lorien wanderer]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Beorn was most definitely vegetarian. He ate only honey and cream ( I think). In any case, he didn't eat meat.

What if - what if this is as good as it gets?</p>

[lindil]

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vegetarianism and the elves

Greetings to the Dagda, and Draggonklaw.
As a vegetarian myself, I would be happy if the Elves were. However there was as has been mentioned meat being hunted in Mirkwood. As to rivendell this is somewhat less conclusive as there were a variety of guests from all Eriador,Rhovanion,Lindon and Gondor, so what was served could reflect hospitality more than local custom.

My guess however is that the High -Elves ate meat somewhat rarely [and some prob. were vegetarians.] mostly on feasts and celebrations.I would easilty see the Nandor/Avari hunting and gathering more. I do not recall Gildor's band serving any meat though I could be wrong and this could reflect the preferences of Wandering Companies while wandering. Meat is a status thing in many places and perhaps Gildor's reference to treating the 3 hobbits better if they are ever guests in his halls was such an allusion.

As virtually all ascetic texts of many religions testify to [including Christian writings of the Saints and fathers] every kind of food has a specific energy and reaction in the body [which however can vary somewhat from person to person] and this is decidely coarser with meat than grains or beans which in turn is coarser than vegetables which in turn is carser than fruit , etc. all the way up to air and the energies therein.I do not see {other than wartime} much activity of the elves that would be improved by a steady meat diet.

In Morgoth's Ring [Annals of Aman] the Valar are said to eat only at the Festival of First fruits held once a [valarin?] year [?],
though Gandalf in the Hobbit more or less seems to chow down at bag-end and is recorded as eating most before disappearing in Rhudaur. HTis is prob. an accomodation to his incarnation as an 'old man' in Middle-earth more than a reflection of maian dietary habits in Valinor.

note also that the waybread of the elves, their ultimate food as it were was not the overly lauded meat or jerky which also keeps indefinately but a valarin 'corn' and other mystery ingredients.



Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[Mister Underhill]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

There was at least one other confirmed vegetarian:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Thereafter for four years more Beren wandered still upon Dorthonion, a solitary outlaw; but he became the friend of birds and beasts, and they aided him, and did not betray him, and from that time forth he ate no flesh nor slew any living thing that was not in the service of Morgoth. <hr></blockquote>I should credit Sharkû, who I think posed a question along these lines in the quiz room once upon a time. I eventually found the answer, but not until after he had left on the &quot;sabbatical&quot; from which he recently returned. That quote makes me picture Beren as a character in some kind of Rankin/Bass animated special, with birds on his shoulders and deer, squirrels, and bunnies hopping along behind him.

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

I wanna eat meat meat meat meat
Meat until I die!
Turkey, Lobster, Sweet Potato Pie!
Pancakes piled up till they reach the sky!

--Goofy: Mickey and the Beanstalk

<hr> <center><font size=1>Not much at all to see at http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000My Bare Bones Website</a></center></p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Elves certainly wouldn't have to see a nutritional benefit to eat meat. Surely they might have eaten it because it tasted good.

Where the beef?

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
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[Orald]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Oh, and lindil, I was reading something yesterday and found that grain for us equates to any form of grain in british, at least it did.

That passage about Beren I think implies that he did eat meat, just not then. Oromë hunted stags, remember? What would dead stags be used for besides food, maybe their skins? Anyway, I don't think that the elves, or the valar/maiar found hunting animals to objectionable.

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

[noldo]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

I believe there's some context that green-elves anyway hunted animals

I believe it's stated somewhere that at least green-elves hunted their food from the woods. As a vegetarian, I anyway liked thinking that Elves didn't eat meat as much as other peoples of ME. Most of the Elven communities and cities of the books are located near waters: rivers and seas (Rivendell, Mithlond), so that's where they could have got some of their food supplies.


The future teaches you to be alone, the present to be afraid and cold. "So if I can shoot rabbits, then I can shoot fascists." Bullets for your brain today, but we'll forget it all again. Monuments put from pen to paper, turns me into gutless wonder.<font size=-1>
Creator of <A HREF=http://pub22.ezboard.com/belvenhome>Elvenhome</A>, a fantasy forum and part of the<A HREF=http://pub20.ezboard.com/badvertisehere>Tolkien EZBoard Network</A>.
Also a strong supporter of <A HREF=http://pub26.ezboard.com/bmithlond>Mithlond</A>, a Middle-Earth RPG forum.</font size=-1> </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000002>RKittle</A>&nbsp; <IMG SRC=http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/oneringicon.gif BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 2/14/01 11:03:59 am

[draggonklaw]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

I guess this wasn't such a stupid question after all! I hope nobody takes offense. I'm still checking into the Bobmbadil/Goldberry question (My daughter has FotR at school, so my hands are tied at the moment). If anyone had anything on Tom and GB, let me know! Thanks. (Esp. Lindil).
(This site is awesome!)

</p>

[Orald]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Du suppose they could fish? Would there be any texts discussing this, other than Gollum, who is not an elf.

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

[The Dagda]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

When on a long march, meat would be hard to keep, and heavy to transport. Hunting would divert too much time and energy from the task at hand, that being the march. Fruit spoils, over time, as well. So grain would be the best of foods to pack for a long trek.

Caesar was acutely concerned with supply lines of provisions, primarily corn (meaning grains such as wheat, as opposed to the American maize), to his own army and to the warriors of Gaul, during his 8 year campaign to subdue the Celtic Tribes to the north of Rome. His own army subsisted almost entirely on corn, and he knew that cutting the corn supply lines to his enemies was paramount to his victory over them.

Tolkien's Elves displayed a magical or technological art in baking that resulted in the Elven waybread (lembas?) suitable for long marches.

If you've ever backpacked long distances, you would quickly come to realise the importance of light weight, low volume, and high energy food.

Incidentally, if anyone is interested in Celtic era European history, this film might appeal:
http://www.movie-list.com/d/druids.shtmlwww.movie-list.com/d/druids.shtml</a>

Vercigetorix was the Celtic chieftain who was, perhaps, the sharpest thorn in Ceasar's side, at least at that time. Max Von Sydow plays his Druid and advisor, I'm supposing from the trailer.

</p>

[Orald]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Do you suppose that they will give it subtitles for non French speakers, or do I have to learn French? Maybe it won't even be released in the US. Hmm, you shouldn't have posted that, I want to see it now. <img src=frown.gif ALT="">

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

[Mister Underhill]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

I love Max von Sydow! He would have been my top pick for Gandalf if it had been me making the films.

</p>

[noldo]

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Re: Were Elves vegetarian?

Durelen, not only fish but also clams, mussels, oysters, prawns, lobsters... <img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

And RKittle, you should propably disable personal photo-option on your board if you don't want people to use them. <img src=wink.gif ALT="">




The future teaches you to be alone, the present to be afraid and cold. "So if I can shoot rabbits, then I can shoot fascists." Bullets for your brain today, but we'll forget it all again. Monuments put from pen to paper, turns me into gutless wonder.<font size=-1>
Creator of <A HREF=http://pub22.ezboard.com/belvenhome>Elvenhome</A>, a fantasy forum and part of the<A HREF=http://pub20.ezboard.com/badvertisehere>Tolkien EZBoard Network</A>.
Also a strong supporter of <A HREF=http://pub26.ezboard.com/bmithlond>Mithlond</A>, a Middle-Earth RPG forum.</font size=-1> </p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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OT: Diable pictures????

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> And RKittle, you should propably disable personal photo-option on your board if you don't want people to use them.<hr></blockquote>

I never suggested such a thing, noldo. Where'd you get the idea that I don't want people to use them? I'm quite aware of the ability to disable personal photos and never considered turning them off.

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
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[noldo]

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Re: OT: Diable pictures????

Then why did you edit my post for?


The future teaches you to be alone, the present to be afraid and cold. "So if I can shoot rabbits, then I can shoot fascists." Bullets for your brain today, but we'll forget it all again. Monuments put from pen to paper, turns me into gutless wonder.<font size=-1>
Creator of <A HREF=http://pub22.ezboard.com/belvenhome>Elvenhome</A>, a fantasy forum and part of the<A HREF=http://pub20.ezboard.com/badvertisehere>Tolkien EZBoard Network</A>.
Also a strong supporter of <A HREF=http://pub26.ezboard.com/bmithlond>Mithlond</A>, a Middle-Earth RPG forum.</font size=-1> </p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: OT: edit post...

Oh! that!!
Your post had no picture in it.... it only showed about 200 lines of blank between your two paragraphs. Check your EZcode.

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[noldo]

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Re: OT: edit post...

Okay. Weird. <img src=wink.gif ALT="">


The future teaches you to be alone, the present to be afraid and cold. "So if I can shoot rabbits, then I can shoot fascists." Bullets for your brain today, but we'll forget it all again. Monuments put from pen to paper, turns me into gutless wonder.<font size=-1>
Creator of <A HREF=http://pub22.ezboard.com/belvenhome>Elvenhome</A>, a fantasy forum and part of the<A HREF=http://pub20.ezboard.com/badvertisehere>Tolkien EZBoard Network</A>.
Also a strong supporter of <A HREF=http://pub26.ezboard.com/bmithlond>Mithlond</A>, a Middle-Earth RPG forum.</font size=-1> </p>

[lindil]

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Green Elves

I don't think this was posted earlier , onlyreferred to , but if it was apologies.


It is regarding the statement the the green elves were vegetarians.
War of the Jewels p.218 [and in the Silmarillion also I believe]: This is a representative of the Nandor speaking to Finrod-
<blockquote>Quote:<hr> &quot; ... these folk [Men] are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts: therefore we are their unfriends, and if the y do not depart, we shall afflict them in all ways that we can.&quot; <hr></blockquote>

I will admit it is not rock solid proof , but it is a likely interpretation.
the one tale in which we here about others interacting/ dwelling w/ the greeen -Elves is Beren the vegetarian { it is hard to cut steak w/ one hand after all} and it is the Ents [also vegetarian] who help destroy the dwarves who attacked Menegroth.



Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[Samwise of the shire]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re:-)are elves veggies?

Well not only is there the other evidence but lookit
when Legolas,Gimli,and Aragorn meet up with Merry and Pippin at Isengaurd,there was bacon,&quot;first rate salted pork&quot;,honey,bread,wine,beer,and leaf no vegetables so apparently Legolas had to eat meat or go with just bread -a most unsatisfying meal- but I think that they eat meat PERIODICALLY not all the time
Samwise G.

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