Fingolfin vs Sauron - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Socialist · 03-03-2003, 03:47 PM

If Fingolfin could inflict that much damage on Morgoth during their battle, do you think he could defeat Sauron (without the ring)?

Just a thought.

Estanesse · 03-03-2003, 04:01 PM

Elendil and Gil-galad defeated Sauron and they did not have the ring. So I think Fingolfin could have defeated Sauron.

03-03-2003, 04:11 PM

I totally think Fingolfin could Kick Sauron's butt since he left a permanent scar on Morgoth's face!!

Estanesse · 03-03-2003, 04:24 PM

The scar on Morgoth's face was the work of Thorondor
Fingolfin only hewed his feet
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Mattius · 03-03-2003, 04:24 PM

Indeed, if Fingolfin or some elf of his stature was involved with things during the 2nd or 3rd age then Sauron would have been ultimatley defeated.

Pallando B.C · 03-03-2003, 04:35 PM

Definately!

lord of dor-lomin · 03-03-2003, 04:59 PM

Would Fingolfin defeat Sauron in a fight? Not a definite given, but I believe he would be capable of it. But Sauron would just leave his body and pop up again later. It's not as if the fight would accomplish much. You gotta destroy that dang ring.

(I'm saying it's not a given because Morgoth was definitely not at his best when he fought, and don't forget that he did indeed win. I wouldn't really consider Sauron much of an underdog, and everyone knows that underdogs, even big ones, win sometimes, so we can't guaruntee a win by Fingolfin.)

Beren87 · 03-03-2003, 05:13 PM

Quote:

But Sauron would just leave his body and pop up again later. It's not as if the fight would accomplish much. You gotta destroy that dang ring.

Fingolfin would destroy the ring where Isildur didn't however. The hearts of elves are not so easily corrupted.

Iarwain · 03-03-2003, 05:20 PM

Yes, if Huan and Luthien could kill him, I believe that Fingolfin would have been able to kill a prering Sauron.

Quote:

The hearts of elves are not so easily corrupted.

very funny. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Iarwain

lord of dor-lomin · 03-03-2003, 05:24 PM

No, I don't think Fingolfin would've destroyed the ring. Didn't Tolkien state that no one could willingly destroy it?

Kidd2323 · 03-03-2003, 05:38 PM

I don't think, if Fingolfin defeated Sauron, that he would have been able to destroy the ring. In one of Tolkien's letters he states (although not exactly) that ultimately every elf, dwarf, man, hobbit, orc, etc. would fail in throwing the ring into the Crack of Doom. They would with good intentions claim the ring for themselves and eventually become evil in the end. The best a being could do was to refuse the ring; therefore, having touched the one ring, Fingolfin would have eventually failed to destroy it, but on topic, I think he could have defeated Sauron in battle--Sauron being Morgoth's lesser, Fingolfin being (in my opinion)the greatest elf ever.

Inderjit Sanghera · 03-04-2003, 08:11 AM

Could Fingfolin defeat Sauron in a battle? Most probably yes. If he could, then so could many other great warriors of the Noldor, such as Feanor, Maedhros and Fingon, and of course Hurin Thalion, mightiest of the edain (in battle anyway)but wasn't it the heat of Sauron's hands/body that defeated Gil-Galad?

lord of dor-lomin · 03-04-2003, 08:19 AM

Yes, that sounds correct Inderjit. I always imagined that Sauron gave Gil-Galad and Elendil a "bear-hug" and though they fell on top of him, his heat killed them.

It's very possible that Fingolfin would also die in a duel with Sauron. I mean, it would be tough to get close enough to hurt him without Sauron pulling the same sort of hugging trick.

Dain · 03-04-2003, 09:38 AM

Beware the bear-hug of death! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Sauron is tricksy, so Fingolfin would have to be careful. I wonder, though, if Fingolfin could out-think ol' Sauron--it's the only way to beat him (with his ring around, anyway). Maybe Fingolfin would cleverly kill him in Mount Doom, so his body fell into the flames with the ring... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

lord of dor-lomin · 03-04-2003, 10:07 AM

Yes, Tolkien's bad guys were considerably smarter than many modern villains. Good idea about killing him in Mt Doom, but I imagine Sauron would make sure and not get himself in that situation.

A great king of the elves has pretty much zero chance of putting an end to Sauron, but two hobbits and a twisted little creature were able to do it. That's so cool!

Beren87 · 03-04-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Didn't Tolkien state that no one could willingly destroy it?

But Figolfin had gone off the deep end at this point. If we're assuming he was in the same mental state that he was in when he went to do battle with Melkor, than that isn't what I would call sane. So I'm not sure he would necessarily be knowing what he was doing, he'd just be following Elrond's instructions (assuming he's taken the place of Isildur here).

Nostie · 03-05-2003, 05:40 PM

I know this isn't exactly on topic, but reading a reply above made me wonder (sorry if it's in another thread)
when Luthien and Beren saw Morgoth and Luthien made him fall asleep or sth, why didnt they just stab/kill him? instead of taking 1 silmaril, they could have killed him and gotten all 3

Mattius · 03-05-2003, 05:52 PM

Well I would guess that a stab with a sword would not kill him, just wake him up and make him angry as hell, perhaps if she got him to sleep then an army of Noldor elves attacked him it would work.

Beren87 · 03-05-2003, 07:23 PM

Exactly, I get the feeling Morgoth couldn't be killed by any normal blade. That's why at the end of the world it would be Turin's sword that deals him his death.

Inderjit Sanghera · 03-06-2003, 02:56 AM

1. Morgoth was an incarnate, and he was eventually executed by Namo, so he could be killed by any sword. I think it's more of a question of the power of the person who was fighting him, not their sword.

2.Turin's slaying of Morgoth was seemingly discarded.

[ March 06, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

03-03-2003, 03:47 PM	#1
Socialist Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 13	Fingolfin vs Sauron If Fingolfin could inflict that much damage on Morgoth during their battle, do you think he could defeat Sauron (without the ring)? Just a thought. __________________ Knock Knock. Who's there? Weapons of Mass Destruction. So there you are!

03-03-2003, 04:01 PM	#2
Estanesse Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: somewhere far away Posts: 561	Elendil and Gil-galad defeated Sauron and they did not have the ring. So I think Fingolfin could have defeated Sauron. __________________ Since there is no time like the present, I thought it was time to present the present.

03-03-2003, 04:24 PM	#4
Estanesse Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: somewhere far away Posts: 561	The scar on Morgoth's face was the work of Thorondor Fingolfin only hewed his feet [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Since there is no time like the present, I thought it was time to present the present.

03-03-2003, 04:24 PM	#5
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Indeed, if Fingolfin or some elf of his stature was involved with things during the 2nd or 3rd age then Sauron would have been ultimatley defeated. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

03-03-2003, 04:35 PM	#6
Pallando B.C Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Rhûn, Tasmania Posts: 521	Definately! __________________ {JHart} Support The Aussies!

03-03-2003, 04:11 PM	#3
Gurlie Guest Posts: n/a	I totally think Fingolfin could Kick Sauron's butt since he left a permanent scar on Morgoth's face!!

03-03-2003, 04:59 PM	#7
lord of dor-lomin Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: dor-lomin, of course Posts: 167	Would Fingolfin defeat Sauron in a fight? Not a definite given, but I believe he would be capable of it. But Sauron would just leave his body and pop up again later. It's not as if the fight would accomplish much. You gotta destroy that dang ring. (I'm saying it's not a given because Morgoth was definitely not at his best when he fought, and don't forget that he did indeed win. I wouldn't really consider Sauron much of an underdog, and everyone knows that underdogs, even big ones, win sometimes, so we can't guaruntee a win by Fingolfin.) __________________ I used to be indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.

03-03-2003, 05:24 PM	#10
lord of dor-lomin Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: dor-lomin, of course Posts: 167	No, I don't think Fingolfin would've destroyed the ring. Didn't Tolkien state that no one could willingly destroy it? __________________ I used to be indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.

03-03-2003, 05:38 PM	#11
Kidd2323 Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 44	I don't think, if Fingolfin defeated Sauron, that he would have been able to destroy the ring. In one of Tolkien's letters he states (although not exactly) that ultimately every elf, dwarf, man, hobbit, orc, etc. would fail in throwing the ring into the Crack of Doom. They would with good intentions claim the ring for themselves and eventually become evil in the end. The best a being could do was to refuse the ring; therefore, having touched the one ring, Fingolfin would have eventually failed to destroy it, but on topic, I think he could have defeated Sauron in battle--Sauron being Morgoth's lesser, Fingolfin being (in my opinion)the greatest elf ever. __________________ "I wish I could go all the way with you to Rivendell, Mr. Frodo, and see Mr. Bilbo," said Sam. "And yet the only place I really want to be in is here. I am that torn in two." "Poor Sam! It will feel like that, I am afraid. " said Frodo. "But you will be healed. You were meant to be solid and whole, and you will be."

03-04-2003, 08:11 AM	#12
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Could Fingfolin defeat Sauron in a battle? Most probably yes. If he could, then so could many other great warriors of the Noldor, such as Feanor, Maedhros and Fingon, and of course Hurin Thalion, mightiest of the edain (in battle anyway)but wasn't it the heat of Sauron's hands/body that defeated Gil-Galad? __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

03-04-2003, 08:19 AM	#13
lord of dor-lomin Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: dor-lomin, of course Posts: 167	Yes, that sounds correct Inderjit. I always imagined that Sauron gave Gil-Galad and Elendil a "bear-hug" and though they fell on top of him, his heat killed them. It's very possible that Fingolfin would also die in a duel with Sauron. I mean, it would be tough to get close enough to hurt him without Sauron pulling the same sort of hugging trick. __________________ I used to be indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.

03-04-2003, 09:38 AM	#14
Dain Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Iron Hills Posts: 127	Beware the bear-hug of death! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Sauron is tricksy, so Fingolfin would have to be careful. I wonder, though, if Fingolfin could out-think ol' Sauron--it's the only way to beat him (with his ring around, anyway). Maybe Fingolfin would cleverly kill him in Mount Doom, so his body fell into the flames with the ring... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane.

03-04-2003, 10:07 AM	#15
lord of dor-lomin Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: dor-lomin, of course Posts: 167	Yes, Tolkien's bad guys were considerably smarter than many modern villains. Good idea about killing him in Mt Doom, but I imagine Sauron would make sure and not get himself in that situation. A great king of the elves has pretty much zero chance of putting an end to Sauron, but two hobbits and a twisted little creature were able to do it. That's so cool! __________________ I used to be indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.

03-05-2003, 05:40 PM	#17
Nostie Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 12	I know this isn't exactly on topic, but reading a reply above made me wonder (sorry if it's in another thread) when Luthien and Beren saw Morgoth and Luthien made him fall asleep or sth, why didnt they just stab/kill him? instead of taking 1 silmaril, they could have killed him and gotten all 3

03-05-2003, 05:52 PM	#18
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Well I would guess that a stab with a sword would not kill him, just wake him up and make him angry as hell, perhaps if she got him to sleep then an army of Noldor elves attacked him it would work. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

03-05-2003, 07:23 PM	#19
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,241	Exactly, I get the feeling Morgoth couldn't be killed by any normal blade. That's why at the end of the world it would be Turin's sword that deals him his death.

03-06-2003, 02:56 AM	#20
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	1. Morgoth was an incarnate, and he was eventually executed by Namo, so he could be killed by any sword. I think it's more of a question of the power of the person who was fighting him, not their sword. 2.Turin's slaying of Morgoth was seemingly discarded. [ March 06, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ] __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone