Sauron returning? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lord Melkor · 12-10-2003, 12:45 PM

As we all know Sauron was reduced to a houseless spirit after the destruction of the ring and was forever uncapable of taking form again. However, in Morgoth's ring there is an part describing how those communing with the spirits of the dead and other wraiths has certain dangers, the most important one being possession of the hroa of the summoner by the summoned spirit. Now, could it be possible that a foolish human trying to commune with spirits encounters Sauron, who takes this opportunity to take over the hapless human? Of course he would possess the body of a human and wouldn't be as powerful as he was when he still was the Lord of the Rings, but he still could cause great harm, like using his cunning mind to become a bloodthirsty despot like Genghis Khan or something like that. An interesting idea or total bullocks?

Lord Elrond · 12-10-2003, 01:32 PM

I never read Morgoth's ring but I think from what I know that the History of Middle Earth books are a bunch of ideas that Tolkien never fully developed. I don't think Sauron could return. He was a maiar spirit not a spirit of the dead as presumeably Morgoth's ring talks about. His body had already been destroyed twice and then the ring destroyed too. So his power if he had any left would be very insignificant. Also Gandalf didn't seem to have any concern when he was destroyed in the end of the third age. If Gandalf wasn't concerned and his job(helping against Sauron ) was done then I think that if Sauron did return he wouldn't be anything like the old Sauron we know and love but a mere shadow of him. He might be able to do some harm but nothing compared to the good old days. I think you bring up an interesting point and I am going to have to finish reading these History books. I want to try and get them all from the same series with the same covers which is harder than it sounds but I"m working on it.

Mattius · 12-10-2003, 01:38 PM

Sounds like the beginning of an RPG to me.

Lord of Angmar · 12-10-2003, 05:27 PM

Unless I am entirely mistaken, Sauron returning via someone's foolish practice of necromancy is a distinct impossibility. Assuming he went into the Void after the destruction of the Ring, he would not be able to return even through possession of the hroa of a physical being, as he is being constantly watched in the Void by the gatekeeper of Ea.

12-10-2003, 06:02 PM

I agree with Lord of Angmar.

Furthermore, I seriously doubt that Sauron could or would ever return in any way, shape, or form.

Finwe · 12-10-2003, 10:00 PM

Unless Earendil oversleeps again, either Morgoth or Sauron won't come back into Ea again. We must encourage him to invest in a good alarm clock or something. Perhaps Elwing could lend him a bird to sing, to wake him up at the right time.

12-11-2003, 06:41 PM

I think that it may be possible that once Sauron was destroyed at the end of the third age, eru may have locked him away in the void with his master, Melkor and the balrogs, seeing that he was no longer a threat, being defeated so many times before. The nazgul, however, were men, so i think their souls may have gone free or sent to a Middle-earth equivalent to hell, not the void.

Pyroclastic · 12-13-2003, 12:11 AM

The 'Sauron Should Have Won' thread gave me a grand idea. I hate to quote my self, but I will anyway:

Quote:

Here's an odd thought:
So, all of Sauron's evil was invested in The Ring. When The Ring was destroyed, did that leave Sauron as entirely good? Is it possible that Sauron still exists, as a good guy? With The Ring, and therefore all of his evil destroyed, Sauron walks Middle Earth, as one of those dreadfully perfect people, The horror of it is un-fathomable.

Next time I meet one of those disgustingly NICE people, I'll be suspicious.

Eol Telemnar · 12-13-2003, 08:52 AM

(If im inturupting Sorry, I'm back at the question)

Quote:

He was a maiar spirit not a spirit of the dead as presumeably Morgoth's ring talks about. His body had already been destroyed twice and then the ring destroyed too. So his power if he had any left would be very insignificant.

I agree with this. But he won't dissapear entiely because he is a maiar spirit. I hope I was a little help [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Finwe · 12-14-2003, 12:39 PM

The only reason he wasn't completely destroyed was that he didn't pour all of himself into the One Ring. He only poured a very large part. When that part was destroyed, through the destruction of the One Ring, he was weakened greatly. All that was left of him was a shadow that was easily scattered to the winds. Perhaps after a great length of time, after gaining some strength, he might return though Necromancy, but I highly doubt it.

12-10-2003, 12:45 PM	#1
Lord Melkor Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 78	Sauron returning? As we all know Sauron was reduced to a houseless spirit after the destruction of the ring and was forever uncapable of taking form again. However, in Morgoth's ring there is an part describing how those communing with the spirits of the dead and other wraiths has certain dangers, the most important one being possession of the hroa of the summoner by the summoned spirit. Now, could it be possible that a foolish human trying to commune with spirits encounters Sauron, who takes this opportunity to take over the hapless human? Of course he would possess the body of a human and wouldn't be as powerful as he was when he still was the Lord of the Rings, but he still could cause great harm, like using his cunning mind to become a bloodthirsty despot like Genghis Khan or something like that. An interesting idea or total bullocks? __________________ 'I am the Elder king: Melkor, first and mightiest of all the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will.'

12-10-2003, 01:32 PM	#2
Lord Elrond Animated Skeleton Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Buffalo Posts: 38	I never read Morgoth's ring but I think from what I know that the History of Middle Earth books are a bunch of ideas that Tolkien never fully developed. I don't think Sauron could return. He was a maiar spirit not a spirit of the dead as presumeably Morgoth's ring talks about. His body had already been destroyed twice and then the ring destroyed too. So his power if he had any left would be very insignificant. Also Gandalf didn't seem to have any concern when he was destroyed in the end of the third age. If Gandalf wasn't concerned and his job(helping against Sauron ) was done then I think that if Sauron did return he wouldn't be anything like the old Sauron we know and love but a mere shadow of him. He might be able to do some harm but nothing compared to the good old days. I think you bring up an interesting point and I am going to have to finish reading these History books. I want to try and get them all from the same series with the same covers which is harder than it sounds but I"m working on it. __________________ "May the blessing of Elves, Men, and other free peoples go with you"

12-10-2003, 01:38 PM	#3
Mattius Soul of Fire Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: City of Steel Posts: 666	Sounds like the beginning of an RPG to me. __________________ A problem shared is a problem halved, so is your problem really yours or just half of someone else's?

12-10-2003, 05:27 PM	#4
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Unless I am entirely mistaken, Sauron returning via someone's foolish practice of necromancy is a distinct impossibility. Assuming he went into the Void after the destruction of the Ring, he would not be able to return even through possession of the hroa of a physical being, as he is being constantly watched in the Void by the gatekeeper of Ea. __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

12-10-2003, 10:00 PM	#6
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Unless Earendil oversleeps again, either Morgoth or Sauron won't come back into Ea again. We must encourage him to invest in a good alarm clock or something. Perhaps Elwing could lend him a bird to sing, to wake him up at the right time. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

12-10-2003, 06:02 PM	#5
LillianTinuviel Guest Posts: n/a	I agree with Lord of Angmar. Furthermore, I seriously doubt that Sauron could or would ever return in any way, shape, or form.

12-11-2003, 06:41 PM	#7
Robb Guest Posts: n/a	I think that it may be possible that once Sauron was destroyed at the end of the third age, eru may have locked him away in the void with his master, Melkor and the balrogs, seeing that he was no longer a threat, being defeated so many times before. The nazgul, however, were men, so i think their souls may have gone free or sent to a Middle-earth equivalent to hell, not the void.

12-14-2003, 12:39 PM	#10
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	The only reason he wasn't completely destroyed was that he didn't pour all of himself into the One Ring. He only poured a very large part. When that part was destroyed, through the destruction of the One Ring, he was weakened greatly. All that was left of him was a shadow that was easily scattered to the winds. Perhaps after a great length of time, after gaining some strength, he might return though Necromancy, but I highly doubt it. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.