Can somone tell me about the Silmarillion they are working on?

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Ive looked at that board and read some of the threads, but i still dont understand what is being done. Are you making things up and adding it to the silmarillion to make it more.... whole? Im so confused thanks for your help and I hope that your project goes well.

[Alkanoonion]

In brief we are attempting to take all of the disparate writings in HoME and UT and revise the Silmarillion by including whatever sections [ wanderings of Hurin, OF tuor and his coming to Gondolin, things lioke that] that could be included, so that our version " Translatins from the Elvish" will contain all of the Narrative material from the first age. We may do the sdame for the 2nd and 3rd ages as well].

version 5.0


The Silmarillion Project began as outgrowth of the Books forum 2+ years ago, wherein it was asked certain questions re: which books other than the Hobbit/LotR were 'canonical' . What followed was the idea that perhaps since this question had ultimatelty been side-stepped by CRT with the publication of UT/HoME, an internet forum could tackle not only the question of 'what' is canonical but could perhaps create a new Silmarillion or as it is tentatively being called now [till we have a proper vote on it] TRANSLATIONS FROM THE ELVISH.- that is a compilation of virtually all of the writings of/pertaining directly to the First, Second, and early to mid Third Ages.


'FAQ'S'

~1 This is an amazing project who is currently involved, and how can I join?
The following folks skills are ascribed by lindil and may not reflect how they see themselves.

Aiwendil - moderator and primary editor, loremaster, linguist
Alkanoonion - general review
Antoine - general editing and review
Elenion, Tar - loremaster, linguist, general review
Eruhen - linguist and general review
Heren Istarion - general review
Lindil - moderator - program co-ordinator - editor
Maedhros - gen editing and formatting
Mithadan - general review and loremaster
Tirinvo - welcome to our newest member]
&
Underhill, Mr.- general review, Chief Troll constultant, Silm Forums admin duties
-=-=-==- the above are active members-=-=-=-
Jallanite [currently on leave of absence]
Gwaihir the Windlord
Obloquy
Pengolodh
Telchar
are currently inactive members.


One can join by stating your intention and what you would like to do in the ** General Comments on the Project & Sign Up Thread **.

Some jobs are obvious , others can be ascertained by PMing one of the Mods.
The following are a few suggestions:


Graphics/production of a nicely done e-version of FoG for the Downs [assuming The Wight would like such a thing],

The current versions of FoG [ or whatever we are working on] can almost always be updated if not reformatted to meet the current needs. [Actually as of September 02 Maedhros and Antoine has taken this task on, but the various diacritical marks still need to be inserted]

Research projects, linguistics, advertisement [ see just how many boards you can make it to in a day and discretely mention what we are doing here [and have a link in your signature.]

And of course there is always truly reading through the material in current progress and studying the relevant source texts and making intelligent comments and suggestions!

I am just throwing out ideas - do not feel you have to restrict yourself to the editorial grind, although that is obviously the heart of the project.

Currently you join by putting a notice in ** General Comments on the Project & Sign Up Thread ** thereby expressing your intent, and then begin posting w/ us on the various threads. Some folks have instead joined by posting amazing work and participating in a way that leaves us dependent upon their particular brand of genius, this is fine, especially if you have amazing work to contribute! But it is nice to have a public record of who is who and what they want to do.

Please subscribe to the active project threads, and check the private forum/ and private messages regularly [every couple or so days perhaps].

~2 Are you planning on publishing this?
There are no plans to publish the material as this would require the blessing of the Estate of JRRT. We are primarily doing this for the joy and satisfaction of seeing order come together out of the Legendarium chaos, and because we know JRRT wanted to see a 'Silmarillion' equal to the Lord of the Rings come out, CRT has acknowledged that he would do much differently now , but has indicated that he will not revise the Silmarillion any further than the 2001 edition. All of the members feel alot more can be done with the wealth of material so meticulously edited by CRT, and indeed there are quite a few indications that JRRT envisioned a much larger production than the currently published Silmarillion.

~ 3 How are decisions made?
Currently due to much respect and goodwill among the members, things are proceeding according to a 'suggestion and follow-up ' principle. If someone has in idea it is suggested and then it is followed up w/ further action or comments. I forsee a more Robert's rules of order style coming into being as the project becomes more involved , but this will be a group decision, and maybe a less formal way of going about this can be found.

~4 What has been done so far?

a] currently the forum has hosted serious and scholarly discussions of the canonical issues of an extremely large number of topics such as the Kings of the Noldor, the Origin of Orcs [Orcish Fear], Glorfindel, Celebrimbor, the genealogy of Gil-Galad and Celeborn, the Second Prophecy of Mandos and dozens of other unresolved or questionable aspects of the Canon, often coming to a consensus [if usually an unspoken one].

b] the current focus is on the the Fall of Gondolin, revising the 77/01 edition by the addition of suitably up-dated material from the Lost Tales and Shaping of Middle-Earth, The Silm and Unfinished Tales volumes [along w/ a few other minor sources].

c] aprox. 1/2 of the Darkening of Valinor has been drafted by an earlier project group . Gwaihir the Windlord and lindil contributed sections to the draft, such as it is. It was never gone over in any sort of a group review process so the contributions are almost entirely the work of the individual contributors. it can be viewed in the midst of the thread entitled 'DoV: texts and discussions.

d] Several other members/friends of the project have contributed their own versions of various parts. Submissions welcomed, they are currently kept in the private forum, but this may change.

~5 What is the relationship between the forum and the Project? see #13 below

~6 What is the Translations from the Elvish 'Council-Members Only Forum' aka 'Private Forum' ?

This is a location for the Council to store the project itself so that it may retain a certain amount of control over the circulation of the materials it edits. Currently all discussions other than actual editorial votes will be held here in open sight for the veiwing/commenting public.

~7 How long till you are finished?
well it took JRRT almost 60 years to do what he did and CRT over 25 years to edit the 11 volumes of the HoME materials so I don't really know, at least a few more days.


~8 Who is in charge?

The moderators of the forum, are in a position similar to mayor of the Shire. lindil is a founding member of the current and past groups working on a new Silmarillion. Aiwendil is currently the main contributor to the project. Jallanite was a moderator [ on the EZboard] and actually did the bulk of the FoG work prior and we seriously look forward to his return!

Mithadan and mr. Underhill are elderstatesman if you will of the forum.

Most likely moderatorship would be conferred on anyone needing to be able to do major editing of texts and move material from one forum to the other, pending approval from the Cheif Wight and the current moderators and other project members.

The Council is however a group process where ideas are judged on their merit and will be decided by vote when unanimity is not reached by discussion. Lindil and Aiwendil have no more control over this process than anyone else, unless of course they happen to be the only ones posting, which thank heavens has not happened in months. Various members contribute according to their capacity, inclination and time.

Please be warned that the work often proceeds in waves, often a busy month or so may be followed by a lull.


~9 Do I need to have read all of the HoME series and be a un/certified Middle-Earth Scholar to participate?

No, but I would say a solid familiarity with the Silmarillion and a general familiarity HoME 1-5 and 10-12 and Unfinished Tales is a pre-requisite. Specific technical details can be learned as we go along, as some may have noticed the various project threads can be very dense and demanding, that is just the nature of the beastie. Of course we are aiming to produce new versions of the pre LotR writings that are footnote free, but we will most assuredly have to pay our dues first.

I hope to re-include a guide to the threads of the Forum again at some point. In general any thread of over 20 posts bears looking at , always keeping in mind the dates. various ideas have come and gone here and not everything posted 10 months ago is still currently relevant or agreed upon.

~10 Why is there so much discussion of so many obscure points? well the Silmarillion is essentially a very large collection of 'obscure points' and a collection that is intensely interdependent. A virtual symbiosis. If you pull one thread , the whole cloth is affected. So each decision, word, spelling and such must be pondered and compared w/ the rest of the Legendarium.

~11 What will CRRT have to say when he finds out?

We don't know if it will ever come to his attention, although some members have spoken of sending him the finished of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin along w/ an Outline of the rest of the project., This will have to wait for the pilot chapter[s] to be finished and the whole idea to be voted on.

Some [understandably] want to do alot more before inviting official scrutiny. Opinion so far is that he [CRRT]/ and the Tolkien Estate may not be pleased , but I think all of us would love to see [however unlikely] his sanction/involvment/ oversight .
As the blind man said... 'We shall see!'

~12 why are so many threads locked or 'archived'? Is someone controlling the discussions? No no one is controlling the discussions, most that are locked or stored away are due to a newer thread of the same subject being started and the desire to avoid the same discussion in 2 threads. Others were locked long after they were last posted on - so that in the event of new discussion of the topic a fresh thread could be started.
Others are tangential to thrust of the forum but have enough value that I would feel guilty if I flushed it down the drain.

~13 Can non-members of the Council or Project post here, and ask questions on this forum?
Most assuredly - the forum was begun and continues as an open accses board for discussion of the idea of canon, a possible new 'canon', and it's ramifications. This will always be a function of the is forum and it will always be open to all posters of goodwill, whether one is a member of the 'Council' or not. The Project and Council are offshoots of the forum and it's 'meetings' mostly take place here.[/i]

Visitors and otential project members please look to see if any questions you might have have already been asked. IF not then please post your Council and Project questions in the ** General Comments on the Project & Sign Up Thread **.

Thoughts re: the Outline in the next post can be posted in the *Unofficial Outline* thread.

Please do a decent search of the threads and their contents before opening a new one. As this is primarily a work space, it is nice for us who work here and for new visitors not to have it overly cluttered and any more confusing than it must needs be.

Submissions [and replies] for FAQ's are most welcome. Please send me a private message with any suggestions.

This post is the creation of lindil purporting to speak for the group , thus far no one has complained.

[ November 03, 2002: Message edited by: Alkanoonion ]

[lindil]

Thanks Alkanoonion,

I couldn't have said it better myself [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Although I could ahve edited the first quotes a bit more.

Feel free to PM me ye of the unauspicius name. OR post in the

** General Comments on the Project & Sign Up Thread **

in the Silm Forum.

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Thanks to both of you!

I would love to join but ive only read the hobbit, LotR, silm, and unfinished tales-albeit 3 times each. Anyways, ive purchased the Book of Lost Tales part 1 and its kind of confusing, but ive got lots of help from the forum members.