Saruman the White? Why? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Annantar · 01-18-2004, 08:54 PM

I was wondeing why Saruman was a white wizard? Wasn't Gandalf a white wizard because he fought shadow? If so, what did Saruman do to become a white wizard, and was he the only white wizard before Gandalf came along, and if not why was he the head of the counsil? I just don't know too much about this kind of history, and if I had read about it, I didn't understand what is was saying. So maybe some one can put it into better words for me. Thanx! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Finwe · 01-18-2004, 09:11 PM

Try using the Search function. There are probably many threads on the subject of Saruman and his "rank."

***Sharkû*** · 01-19-2004, 05:16 AM

I've argued before that the colours of the wizards hardly bear any important significance. From all we know, they are just the colours of their robes, and they had those before they even went on their mission (certainly Gandalf at least was already clad in grey). It's possible they were signs of rank or job in Valinor, but we don't know.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:18 AM January 19, 2004: Message edited by: Sharkû ]

Knight of Gondor · 01-19-2004, 09:51 PM

I learned elsewhere on this board (and I hope to learn for myself via the Histories) that there were five wizards put on Middle-Earth. Saruman (Curunir) was White (which, as far as I know, DOES symbolize greater wisdom/power), Gandalf (Olorin) was Grey, Radaghast was Brown, and there were two others, one of them blue?? Saruman's powers were depleted as his wisdom was invaded by Ring-lust. Gandalf did not get "promoted" merely because he fought a battle, but because the Valar granted him more power for his part in the struggle against Sauron. This is my humble opinion, and I lack resources to back it up, but if anyone can supplement/disprove/prove me right, I'd be obliged. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Legolas · 01-19-2004, 11:01 PM

See their true colours shining through...

Some good posts on possible meanings, though not specified by Tolkien.

01-18-2004, 08:54 PM	#1
Annantar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: I have no idea Posts: 13	Saruman the White? Why? I was wondeing why Saruman was a white wizard? Wasn't Gandalf a white wizard because he fought shadow? If so, what did Saruman do to become a white wizard, and was he the only white wizard before Gandalf came along, and if not why was he the head of the counsil? I just don't know too much about this kind of history, and if I had read about it, I didn't understand what is was saying. So maybe some one can put it into better words for me. Thanx! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ I'm a sneaky little Hobbit!

01-18-2004, 09:11 PM	#2
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Try using the Search function. There are probably many threads on the subject of Saruman and his "rank." __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

01-19-2004, 09:51 PM	#4
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	I learned elsewhere on this board (and I hope to learn for myself via the Histories) that there were five wizards put on Middle-Earth. Saruman (Curunir) was White (which, as far as I know, DOES symbolize greater wisdom/power), Gandalf (Olorin) was Grey, Radaghast was Brown, and there were two others, one of them blue?? Saruman's powers were depleted as his wisdom was invaded by Ring-lust. Gandalf did not get "promoted" merely because he fought a battle, but because the Valar granted him more power for his part in the struggle against Sauron. This is my humble opinion, and I lack resources to back it up, but if anyone can supplement/disprove/prove me right, I'd be obliged. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

01-19-2004, 11:01 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	See their true colours shining through... Some good posts on possible meanings, though not specified by Tolkien. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

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01-19-2004, 05:16 AM	#3
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	I've argued before that the colours of the wizards hardly bear any important significance. From all we know, they are just the colours of their robes, and they had those before they even went on their mission (certainly Gandalf at least was already clad in grey). It's possible they were signs of rank or job in Valinor, but we don't know. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:18 AM January 19, 2004: Message edited by: Sharkû ]