The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2002, 07:35 PM   #1
zifnab
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
zifnab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omni-presence
Posts: 329
zifnab has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe When were the Ents born......

I have always been curious about Ents and their beginning. Im no expert(of course or I wouldn't have ask this), but when did the Ents come about?

Here are some quotes from Fangorn/Treebeard in The Two Towers:

Quote:
Learn now the lore of Living Creatures!
First name the four, the free peoples:
Eldest of all, the elf-children;
Dwarf the delver, dark are his houses;
Ent the earthborn, old as mountains;
Man the mortal, master of horses:
Quote:
"Some of my kin look just like trees now, and need something great to rouse them; and they speak only in whispers. But some of my trees are limb-lithe, and many can talk to me. Elves began it, of course, waking trees up and teaching them to speak and learning their tree-talk. They always wished to talk to everything, the old elves did. But then the Great Darkness came, and they passed away over the sea, or fled into far valleys, and hid themselves, and made songs about days that would never come again. Never again.
Now I have only read through half of the Silmarillion but it seems to me, that the Ents should have been mentioned. Maybe they are and Im rushing into this question, but my curiousity got the better of me.

Were they "created" by Eru/Iluvatar or the Valar or by something else and when? This may be a silly question with a simple answer but I seem to be at a lose at the moment!

Thanks!
__________________
Facebook.
zifnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2002, 02:27 AM   #2
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

It was the Elves that taught the trees to talk.
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2002, 04:15 AM   #3
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,037
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Sting

The Silmarillion speaks of the beginning of the Ents, though they are called there the Shepherds of the Trees.
They were created by Ilúvatar (as were all things) in response to the prayer of the Vala Yavanna. She was concerned that the coming Children of Ilúvatar would have no respect for trees or other growing things. The Ents were to protect these things that were otherwise defenseless.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2002, 11:23 AM   #4
Gollumm
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 11
Gollumm has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Inziladun is correct. Also, Ents awoke upon Middle-earth as soon as, or shortly after the Elves awoke.

Ents were also giving mastery over stones, though I dunno why.
Gollumm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2002, 11:34 AM   #5
zifnab
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
zifnab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omni-presence
Posts: 329
zifnab has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

That makes sense, The shepards of trees, sounds very familiar. I guess I should re-read that section.

But now I have a question about Old Man Willow in the Old Forest. Was he an Ent that had "rooted" himself and gone bad, or just your normal "Grumpy Willow".


Quote:
Tom's words laid bare the hearts of trees and their thoughts, which were often dark and strange, and filled with a hatred of things that go free upon the earth, gnawing, biting, breaking, hacking, burning: destroyers and usurpers. It is not called the Old Forest without reason, for it was indeed ancient, a survivor of vast forgotten woods; and in it there lived yet, ageing no quicker than the hills, the fathers of the fathers of trees, remembering times when they were lords. The countless years had filled them with pride and rooted wisdom, and with malice. But none were more dangerous than the Great Willow: his heart was rotten, but his strength was green; and he was cunning, and a master of winds, and his song and thought ran through the woods on both sides of the river. His grey thristy spirit drew power out of the earth and spread like fine root-threads in the ground, and invisible twig-fingers in the air, till it had under its dominion nearly all the trees of the Forest from the Hedge to the Downs.
Tom Bombadil
Quote:
Some of us are still true Ents, and lively enough in our fashion, but many are growing sleepy, going tree-ish, as you might say. Most of the trees are just trees, of course; but many are half awake. Some are quite wide awake, and a few are, well, ah, well getting Entish. That is going on all the time.
'When that happens to a tree, you find that some have bad hearts. Nothing to do with their wood: I do not mean that. Why I knew some good old willows down the Entwash, gone long ago, alas! They were quite hollow, indeed they were falling all to pieces, but as quiet and sweet-spoken as a young leaf. And then there some trees in the valleys under the mountains, sound as a bell, and bad right through. That sort of thing seems to spread. There used to be some very dangerous parts in this country. There are still some very black patches.'
'Like the Old Forest away to the north, do you mean?' asked Merry.
'Aye, aye, something like, but much worse. I do not doubt there is some shadow of the Great Darkness lying there still away north; and bad memories are handed down.
Treebeard
This may be far out there and Im not even sure if I believe it, but is this what might have happened to the Entwives, since no one seems to know otherwise(at least as far as I know, but I havent read HOME series). It seems to me that the Entwives went away after the Darkness came, and then later were praised by men, and then they land turned to desert and disappeared altogther.

Just more Ent questions that puzzle me!
__________________
Facebook.
zifnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2002, 12:59 PM   #6
zifnab
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
zifnab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omni-presence
Posts: 329
zifnab has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

Well I just found some answers about Old Man Willow here:Old Man Willow
__________________
Facebook.
zifnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2002, 08:56 PM   #7
Samwise
Faithful Spirit
 
Samwise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Petaluma, Ca
Posts: 2,299
Samwise has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Samwise
Sting

Wow! Pretty deep stuff, Zinfab!
Quote:
"Well, I'm back."
Sam Gamgee
__________________
Giving thanks unto the Father...In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.~Colossians1:12a,14
* * * * * * *
I am Samwise son of Hamfast, if by hoe or trowel I can get these weeds out of your garden, I will.You have my shears!;)
Samwise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2002, 12:59 PM   #8
zifnab
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
zifnab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omni-presence
Posts: 329
zifnab has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

I came across this when re-reading some things in FOTR(The Shadow of the Past)….

Quote:
‘But what about these Tree-men, these giants, as you might call them? They do say that one bigger than a tree was seen up away beyond the North Moors not long back.’

etc, etc, etc

‘But this one was as big as an elm tree, and walking- walking seven yards to a stride, if it was an inch’
‘Then I bet it wasn’t an inch. What he saw was an elm tree, as like as not.’
‘But this one was walking, I tell you; and there ain’t no elm tree on the North Moors.’
It seems to me that these might be Ents, or maybe even the so called Ent-Wives? What does
everybody else think?
__________________
Facebook.
zifnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2002, 07:29 PM   #9
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Tolkien

Here is how Ents came into being in the First Age: from The Silmarillion.
Quote:
Then Manwe awoke, and went down to Yavannah upon Ezellohar, and sat beside her beneath the Two Trees. And
Manwe said; O Kementari, Eru hath spoken, saying: "Do then any of the Valar suppose that I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? Behold! When the children awake, then the thought of Yavannah will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar. and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared.
Olvar means growing things with roots in the earth. Kelvar is animals; living things that move.
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2002, 07:45 PM   #10
zifnab
Shade of Carn Dűm
 
zifnab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: omni-presence
Posts: 329
zifnab has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

Yes Elrian, I have figured that much out.

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
Facebook.
zifnab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:43 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.