what is middle earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

anduin angel 44 · 01-07-2003, 08:26 PM

what is middle earth exactly r there other places like it or other planets like it

Lindril Arvilya · 01-07-2003, 10:04 PM

It's our world. It's ancient ancient England.

Beren87 · 01-07-2003, 10:13 PM

True in the "tolkien was attempting to create a mythology of England" sense.

However, ME (middle-Earth) was the lands created by the Valar to fufill the design of Illuvatar (God, the valar are like his servants).

Legolas · 01-08-2003, 12:50 AM

Middle-earth is a continent in Arda, the world that Eru and the Ainur created in Eä, the universe. We're told of no other planets in Eä. There is land in Arda that we are not give much information on - the lands of Middle-earth east of Mordor and south of Harad.

LePetitChoux · 01-08-2003, 11:42 AM

Ever heard of Pangaea? M-E is something like that.

Manwe Sulimo · 01-09-2003, 06:11 PM

Nah...Middle-earth is Europe, Asia, and Africa, about 15,000 years ago.

Gondor is Greece and Italy, Umbar is Palestine/Israel/Canaan, Mordor is Turkey, the Shire is Great Britain....

Aman is the Americas, and the "Dark Continent" (or whatever it was called) is Australia....

Arda is our Earth, just a long time ago.

Beren87 · 01-09-2003, 06:47 PM

I can see it now: Turkey, the land of shadow.

Make an interesting travel guide anyway.

The only problem with that assesment Manwe, is that the distances would be completely and incredibly wrong. ME is muuuuch to small to be Europe.

[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Beren87 ]

Manwe Sulimo · 01-09-2003, 08:16 PM

Too small? Not really; the Valar already showed their love of distorting Arda with the Hiding of Valinor and the sinkings of Beleriand and Elenna. In the 10,000 years between the end of the Fourth Age and the re-awakening of Man (my theory, in a long-forgotten thread somewhere), the Valar probably had some fun messing with the land again.

You see, anything is justifiable in fantasy [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-09-2003, 08:39 PM

There's a series of maps in the Tolkien Illustrated Encyclopedia (my reference source for anything pre-The Hobbit until I get round to reading The Silmarillion) which shows the development of Arda (the World) through the various Ages to present time (The Fourth Age of the Sun), some 40,000 years after its creation.

Comparing the Third Age of the Sun (the Age in which LotR is set) to the Fourth Age, Middle Earth represents Europe, Asia and Africa. The area in which LotR is set is Europe (the Shire being the UK) with Harad and Far Harad being the Middle East and Africa respectively. The Americas are the Sunlands and Australia is indeed the Dark Lands.

I'm not sure about Mordor being Turkey (I've been to Turkey, it's nice), but it looks about right. Or perhaps Germany, given that JRRT was writing LotR around the time of WW2 (but then again, Germany's a nice place too).

I remember reading somewhere that JRRT thought of Gondor as Italy and Minis Tirith as Venice I think (but without the water).

01-07-2003, 08:26 PM	#1
anduin angel 44 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: somewhere outside of the lord of the rings world Posts: 17	what is middle earth what is middle earth exactly r there other places like it or other planets like it __________________ i looked at you 1000 times but this time when i looked at you there was something new how could i be so blind

01-07-2003, 10:04 PM	#2
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 332	It's our world. It's ancient ancient England. __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

01-08-2003, 12:50 AM	#4
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	Middle-earth is a continent in Arda, the world that Eru and the Ainur created in Eä, the universe. We're told of no other planets in Eä. There is land in Arda that we are not give much information on - the lands of Middle-earth east of Mordor and south of Harad. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

01-08-2003, 11:42 AM	#5
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	Ever heard of Pangaea? M-E is something like that. __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

01-09-2003, 06:11 PM	#6
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Nah...Middle-earth is Europe, Asia, and Africa, about 15,000 years ago. Gondor is Greece and Italy, Umbar is Palestine/Israel/Canaan, Mordor is Turkey, the Shire is Great Britain.... Aman is the Americas, and the "Dark Continent" (or whatever it was called) is Australia.... Arda is our Earth, just a long time ago. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-07-2003, 10:13 PM	#3
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,241	True in the "tolkien was attempting to create a mythology of England" sense. However, ME (middle-Earth) was the lands created by the Valar to fufill the design of Illuvatar (God, the valar are like his servants).

01-09-2003, 06:47 PM	#7
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,241	I can see it now: Turkey, the land of shadow. Make an interesting travel guide anyway. The only problem with that assesment Manwe, is that the distances would be completely and incredibly wrong. ME is muuuuch to small to be Europe. [ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Beren87 ]

01-09-2003, 08:16 PM	#8
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Too small? Not really; the Valar already showed their love of distorting Arda with the Hiding of Valinor and the sinkings of Beleriand and Elenna. In the 10,000 years between the end of the Fourth Age and the re-awakening of Man (my theory, in a long-forgotten thread somewhere), the Valar probably had some fun messing with the land again. You see, anything is justifiable in fantasy [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-09-2003, 08:39 PM	#9
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	There's a series of maps in the Tolkien Illustrated Encyclopedia (my reference source for anything pre-The Hobbit until I get round to reading The Silmarillion) which shows the development of Arda (the World) through the various Ages to present time (The Fourth Age of the Sun), some 40,000 years after its creation. Comparing the Third Age of the Sun (the Age in which LotR is set) to the Fourth Age, Middle Earth represents Europe, Asia and Africa. The area in which LotR is set is Europe (the Shire being the UK) with Harad and Far Harad being the Middle East and Africa respectively. The Americas are the Sunlands and Australia is indeed the Dark Lands. I'm not sure about Mordor being Turkey (I've been to Turkey, it's nice), but it looks about right. Or perhaps Germany, given that JRRT was writing LotR around the time of WW2 (but then again, Germany's a nice place too). I remember reading somewhere that JRRT thought of Gondor as Italy and Minis Tirith as Venice I think (but without the water). __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

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