whos Mary-sue? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

lady evenstar · 10-29-2003, 09:35 AM

i dont know what that means. someone typed that to me on one of my questions.

Aethelwine · 10-29-2003, 10:10 AM

Greetings lady evenstar! This may be a little late, but still: enjoy being dead!

A Mary Sue isn't a 'real' character. It's a name used by fans to indicate a (female) character, that's to perfect. Do you know what fan-fiction is? I assume you do. When somebody creates a character that has everything, beauty, brains, a great voice, she get's a most wanted character and so on and so forth, she is considered to be a Mary Sue.

The male version is 'Harry Stue'.

Hope this cleared things up a bitfor you. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

NaNa!

Aethelwine.

Ainaserkewen · 10-29-2003, 10:45 AM

Haha, Mary-Sues...
I also find when I read a hard-core Mary-Sue that the character has something to do with the writer...a kind of fantasy that the writer has placed herself in. Usually the love interest of her favourite (cough) character. Sometimes Mary-Sues can be hilariously funny, other times, very annoying. Depends on how they're written.

Aethelwine · 10-29-2003, 10:55 AM

Yeah, Aina, your right!
Most of the time, a Mary Sue is the way the writer would love to be. Something that is in almost everybody of us. That's were the perfect-factor comes from. For who would not want to be perfect?

Touché, Aina! I didn't think of that one!

NaNa!

Aethelwine.

[ October 29, 2003: Message edited by: Aethelwine ]

Ainaserkewen · 10-29-2003, 01:57 PM

I read alot of fanfiction and an idea came to me from reading this thread. What if we were to creat a list of bywords used in reviews and summaries and their meanings for the world to use. I know it would be useful for me cause I don't know everything. We could get people together to add words and their descriptions.
ex:
OC=Original Character
POV=Point of view
Slash=Pairings of the characters.
etc. etc. What think?

PS: I didn't know about Harry-Sue's, haha, I do now, thanks.

[ October 29, 2003: Message edited by: Ainaserkewen ]

Lily Bracegirdle · 10-29-2003, 03:34 PM

Hello, Lady Evenstar!

"Mary-Sue" is a name to describe a certain kind of original character that is found in fanfiction. She is the way the author sub-consciously writes herself into the story. (Self-inserts of the "author falls into Middle Earth" variety are related.)It's something that most fanfiction authors do, especially when they're starting out.

Mary-Sues share certain characteristics. Because authors are living out their own dreams via their original character, they tend to make the "Mary-Sue" character as fun and interesting for themselves as they can. This makes Mary-Sue characters rather easy to spot.

Mary-Sue tends to be:
Very beautiful (or ugly except to the hero). She often has odd coloring, for example, white, silver or red hair, green or mismatched eyes (one blue, one brown, etc). She is usually tall and striking.

Fantasy Mary-Sues often have nouns for names, for example: Cat, Raven, Rowan, Neko (Cat), Kitsune (Fox), and so on.

Mary-Sue often has hidden or arcane talents. She may have precognition, the ability to cast spells or communicate with people or animals telepathically. (Wolves, cats, dragons and horses are favorite Mary-Sue companions.)

Mary-Sue is either related to a famous canon character or is his love interest -- possibly both. For example, Mary-Sue may be Legolas' long lost twin sister who is so enchanting that Aragorn dumps Arwen to marry her. Twins and bastard half-sisters are common Mary-Sues.

Mary-Sue is usually liked, admired or adored by all canon characters within seconds of meeting them. They feel some "strange attraction" to her or intuit that she is very "important" or has "latent powers". Gandalf may realize that she holds they key to saving Middle Earth, the Ringbearer, etc. Mary-Sue is the most intelligent, most sensitive, most fun person they have ever met. She also knows more about archery than Legolas, can outride Eomer, and can teach Aragorn a thing or two about swordfighting.

Mary-Sue often has a tragic past or future. Her family was killed by Orcs, she was a slave of the Easterlings, and so on. At the end of the story she may die of some illness or in battle, so that the canon characters can weep over her and vow never to love another. Their lives will never be the same without her, etc.

Why do people revile Mary-sue? It's because she's not very interesting to anyone other than the author. No one else empathizes with her the way the author does, and so, instead of identifying with her, the readers find her boring, or annoying, or both. That is not to say there aren't good, well-written "Mary-Sue" stories out there. Some of them are quite good. It's just that the majority of them aren't, so readers learn to avoid Mary-Sue stories if they can.

If someone calls your story a Mary-Sue, it doesn't mean you're a bad writer. It just means that you've started out by writing a wish-fulfilment story. That's fine. But people are more likely to read and enjoy your stories that are not Mary-sues.

You can learn more about Mary-Sue at this site:

Mary Sue Society

They have litmus tests there so you can see for yourself if your story qualifies as a Mary-sue. Their essays are also quite amusing.

Cheers!

-Lily

Legolas · 10-29-2003, 03:49 PM

An unreasonably perfect, cool awesome, intelligent, attractice, best-at-everything-they-do character that is always being the exception to the rules...you get the picture.

This unrelated-to-Tolkien thread will now be closed.

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-29-2003, 04:14 PM

You wouldn't mean someone like my Merisuwyniel, would you??? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

10-29-2003, 09:35 AM	#1
lady evenstar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 16	whos Mary-sue? i dont know what that means. someone typed that to me on one of my questions.

10-29-2003, 10:10 AM	#2
Aethelwine Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: In Anórien, just outside Edoras, on a horse I "borrowed"... Posts: 150	Greetings lady evenstar! This may be a little late, but still: enjoy being dead! A Mary Sue isn't a 'real' character. It's a name used by fans to indicate a (female) character, that's to perfect. Do you know what fan-fiction is? I assume you do. When somebody creates a character that has everything, beauty, brains, a great voice, she get's a most wanted character and so on and so forth, she is considered to be a Mary Sue. The male version is 'Harry Stue'. Hope this cleared things up a bitfor you. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] NaNa! Aethelwine. __________________ Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind--not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being. - Catherine to Nelly, Wuthering Heights

10-29-2003, 10:45 AM	#3
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 651	Haha, Mary-Sues... I also find when I read a hard-core Mary-Sue that the character has something to do with the writer...a kind of fantasy that the writer has placed herself in. Usually the love interest of her favourite (cough) character. Sometimes Mary-Sues can be hilariously funny, other times, very annoying. Depends on how they're written. __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken?

10-29-2003, 10:55 AM	#4
Aethelwine Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: In Anórien, just outside Edoras, on a horse I "borrowed"... Posts: 150	Yeah, Aina, your right! Most of the time, a Mary Sue is the way the writer would love to be. Something that is in almost everybody of us. That's were the perfect-factor comes from. For who would not want to be perfect? Touché, Aina! I didn't think of that one! NaNa! Aethelwine. [ October 29, 2003: Message edited by: Aethelwine ] __________________ Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind--not as a pleasure, any more than I am always a pleasure to myself, but as my own being. - Catherine to Nelly, Wuthering Heights

10-29-2003, 01:57 PM	#5
Ainaserkewen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A cosmic waiting room Posts: 651	I read alot of fanfiction and an idea came to me from reading this thread. What if we were to creat a list of bywords used in reviews and summaries and their meanings for the world to use. I know it would be useful for me cause I don't know everything. We could get people together to add words and their descriptions. ex: OC=Original Character POV=Point of view Slash=Pairings of the characters. etc. etc. What think? PS: I didn't know about Harry-Sue's, haha, I do now, thanks. [ October 29, 2003: Message edited by: Ainaserkewen ] __________________ Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken?

10-29-2003, 03:34 PM	#6
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	Hello, Lady Evenstar! "Mary-Sue" is a name to describe a certain kind of original character that is found in fanfiction. She is the way the author sub-consciously writes herself into the story. (Self-inserts of the "author falls into Middle Earth" variety are related.)It's something that most fanfiction authors do, especially when they're starting out. Mary-Sues share certain characteristics. Because authors are living out their own dreams via their original character, they tend to make the "Mary-Sue" character as fun and interesting for themselves as they can. This makes Mary-Sue characters rather easy to spot. Mary-Sue tends to be: Very beautiful (or ugly except to the hero). She often has odd coloring, for example, white, silver or red hair, green or mismatched eyes (one blue, one brown, etc). She is usually tall and striking. Fantasy Mary-Sues often have nouns for names, for example: Cat, Raven, Rowan, Neko (Cat), Kitsune (Fox), and so on. Mary-Sue often has hidden or arcane talents. She may have precognition, the ability to cast spells or communicate with people or animals telepathically. (Wolves, cats, dragons and horses are favorite Mary-Sue companions.) Mary-Sue is either related to a famous canon character or is his love interest -- possibly both. For example, Mary-Sue may be Legolas' long lost twin sister who is so enchanting that Aragorn dumps Arwen to marry her. Twins and bastard half-sisters are common Mary-Sues. Mary-Sue is usually liked, admired or adored by all canon characters within seconds of meeting them. They feel some "strange attraction" to her or intuit that she is very "important" or has "latent powers". Gandalf may realize that she holds they key to saving Middle Earth, the Ringbearer, etc. Mary-Sue is the most intelligent, most sensitive, most fun person they have ever met. She also knows more about archery than Legolas, can outride Eomer, and can teach Aragorn a thing or two about swordfighting. Mary-Sue often has a tragic past or future. Her family was killed by Orcs, she was a slave of the Easterlings, and so on. At the end of the story she may die of some illness or in battle, so that the canon characters can weep over her and vow never to love another. Their lives will never be the same without her, etc. Why do people revile Mary-sue? It's because she's not very interesting to anyone other than the author. No one else empathizes with her the way the author does, and so, instead of identifying with her, the readers find her boring, or annoying, or both. That is not to say there aren't good, well-written "Mary-Sue" stories out there. Some of them are quite good. It's just that the majority of them aren't, so readers learn to avoid Mary-Sue stories if they can. If someone calls your story a Mary-Sue, it doesn't mean you're a bad writer. It just means that you've started out by writing a wish-fulfilment story. That's fine. But people are more likely to read and enjoy your stories that are not Mary-sues. You can learn more about Mary-Sue at this site: Mary Sue Society They have litmus tests there so you can see for yourself if your story qualifies as a Mary-sue. Their essays are also quite amusing. Cheers! -Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

10-29-2003, 03:49 PM	#7
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	An unreasonably perfect, cool awesome, intelligent, attractice, best-at-everything-they-do character that is always being the exception to the rules...you get the picture. This unrelated-to-Tolkien thread will now be closed. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

10-29-2003, 04:14 PM	#8
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	You wouldn't mean someone like my Merisuwyniel, would you??? [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

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