Real owner(s) of Orcrist and Glamdring - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aeglos · 11-21-2012, 08:17 AM

Who was the real owners of those two? Elrond said that both were made and used in gondolin in the wars and possibly in the downfall of gondolin, since the goblins got them. And elrond states i think that glamdring was owned by the king of gondolin which is turgon. But the other one got no named owner. Who could this be, i think it belongs to one of the lords of the houses of gondolin.

But on thing strikes me. Elrond talks about they are both "twins" is it in look, or who vielded them. I dont think turgon used both, since his forefathers used shields i guess. But could the word twins mean that both of them killed balrogs? This is a bit vague, but i think it is an interesting thought. But some points must be more explained.

Elrond can look into the future, could he see that durins bane would die by this sword? I feel that foresights are used on the balrog inside moria, when some dwarf says that they cant retake moria before another great power cleanses the balrog. If this "forecast/prediction" is made by a dwarf maybe elrond would see it too?

Wait what? Ecthelion killed gothmoh with his helmet. Yes he did bu he killed three balrogs before that.

so another of my "dumb" theories, im just getting into tolkien lore again and my imagination is driving me crazy. Thanks folks!

Galadriel55 · 11-21-2012, 08:48 AM

The swords are called twins because they were made by the same smith, I suppose using the same technique. Turgon yielded one of them. As for the other - maybe Tuor, or Maeglin, or any one of Turgon's high-ranking men.

Elmo · 11-22-2012, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The swords are called twins because they were made by the same smith, I suppose using the same technique. Turgon yielded one of them. As for the other - maybe Tuor, or Maeglin, or any one of Turgon's high-ranking men.

Maeglin himself may have forged them. I think it's mentioned in the Silmarillion he improved Gondolin's smithing and forged stronger steel swords.

Findegil · 11-22-2012, 07:17 AM

As fare as I remember Tolkien never explains who was the first owner of Orcrist. So we are up to guessing. My guess would be the chief of Turgons Kingsgard. When Turgon came down into the battle at thefall of Gondolin the gard was ever around him and they stayed and protected the Tower of Turgon until the end (which allowed the flight of the remanent of the other Houses under Tuor). We can assume that this was the normal behavier for the Kingsgard in any battle Turgon took part and therefore it would be fitting to call sword of the Chief of the Kingsgard (Orcrist) the twin of Turgons own blade (Glamdring), since they would have been drawn together at any occasion.

Respectfuly
Findegil

McCaber · 12-14-2012, 12:39 PM

If I had to make a guess, Ecthelion would be the likely suspect.

cellurdur · 12-14-2012, 01:28 PM

Whilst the book of Lost Tales was mostly dismissed and would have had to be rewritten there is a lot of valuable material there.
Looking at the list of Lords it could be any of Glorfindel, Ecthelion or Penfold, but at the same time it could just have been a very loyal and great member of Turgon's household. An elf, who died defending his king to the last and their swords fell together.

Alfirin · 12-14-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo

Maeglin himself may have forged them. I think it's mentioned in the Silmarillion he improved Gondolin's smithing and forged stronger steel swords.

Only part of them, if that. If Glamdring really is Turgon's sword, then it probably actually came from Aman. It is mentioned in the Unfinished tales that Turgon's sword has a white and gold scabbard made of "ruel bone" (ivory). As I mentioned in an earlier thread, unless there were mumakul wandering around Gondolin, it would mean Turgon would have had to have gotten the scabbard at least, while in the west, and probably the sword as well (unless Glamdring was made in Gondolin, and Turgon used a scabbard he already had i.e. the scabbard was not originally made for that specific sword. If Orchrist is a "twin" then it probably has a similar sheath so it would have to have been broght over as well (unless, again, it's a matter of a sheath getting a second use. Or the swords are twins, but the sheaths are not.)

11-21-2012, 08:17 AM	#1
Aeglos Newly Deceased Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 5	Real owner(s) of Orcrist and Glamdring Who was the real owners of those two? Elrond said that both were made and used in gondolin in the wars and possibly in the downfall of gondolin, since the goblins got them. And elrond states i think that glamdring was owned by the king of gondolin which is turgon. But the other one got no named owner. Who could this be, i think it belongs to one of the lords of the houses of gondolin. But on thing strikes me. Elrond talks about they are both "twins" is it in look, or who vielded them. I dont think turgon used both, since his forefathers used shields i guess. But could the word twins mean that both of them killed balrogs? This is a bit vague, but i think it is an interesting thought. But some points must be more explained. Elrond can look into the future, could he see that durins bane would die by this sword? I feel that foresights are used on the balrog inside moria, when some dwarf says that they cant retake moria before another great power cleanses the balrog. If this "forecast/prediction" is made by a dwarf maybe elrond would see it too? Wait what? Ecthelion killed gothmoh with his helmet. Yes he did bu he killed three balrogs before that. so another of my "dumb" theories, im just getting into tolkien lore again and my imagination is driving me crazy. Thanks folks!

11-21-2012, 08:48 AM	#2
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,411	The swords are called twins because they were made by the same smith, I suppose using the same technique. Turgon yielded one of them. As for the other - maybe Tuor, or Maeglin, or any one of Turgon's high-ranking men. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

12-14-2012, 12:39 PM	#5
McCaber Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Skyrim, again. Posts: 820	If I had to make a guess, Ecthelion would be the likely suspect. __________________ Werewolves vs. Fishmen. The battle of the century.

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11-22-2012, 07:17 AM	#4
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	As fare as I remember Tolkien never explains who was the first owner of Orcrist. So we are up to guessing. My guess would be the chief of Turgons Kingsgard. When Turgon came down into the battle at thefall of Gondolin the gard was ever around him and they stayed and protected the Tower of Turgon until the end (which allowed the flight of the remanent of the other Houses under Tuor). We can assume that this was the normal behavier for the Kingsgard in any battle Turgon took part and therefore it would be fitting to call sword of the Chief of the Kingsgard (Orcrist) the twin of Turgons own blade (Glamdring), since they would have been drawn together at any occasion. Respectfuly Findegil

12-14-2012, 01:28 PM	#6
cellurdur Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 276	Whilst the book of Lost Tales was mostly dismissed and would have had to be rewritten there is a lot of valuable material there. Looking at the list of Lords it could be any of Glorfindel, Ecthelion or Penfold, but at the same time it could just have been a very loyal and great member of Turgon's household. An elf, who died defending his king to the last and their swords fell together.