connections form Tolkiens life to LOTR. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Helkasir · 11-27-2002, 12:58 PM

I just read the official biography by Carten Humphrey, and noticed some stuff...

For one, Tolkien hated flying, said that was "Immoral" or something to that degree. Could that be why the Eagles only come in the direst of situations?

When Tolkien was three years old, he was bit by a Tarantula while living in South Africa, and would have died had the nurse not been there to suck the venom from the bite. That the reason for the huge spiders inhabiting ME?

Some of this just made think. Thought I'd share it with you all...

Arwen Imladris · 11-27-2002, 03:39 PM

Well, it is possible to read all sorts of stuff into LOTR

Tolkien was moved from queit Africa to busy, poluted London or something. Is that why "technologie" is made by Saruman who is a BAD character? Or maybe it is because he was in the war and technologie killed all kinds of people.

Tolkien was a church-goer, maybe LOTR is an allegory of the bible or a biblical story?

That's all that I can think of for now.

the mortal elf · 11-27-2002, 04:27 PM

Not allegory! How many times has Tolkien stressed this in letters, and even in the introduction to LotR?

I heard somewhere that after Africa he lived in a quiet little town that was generally taken over by a mining facility. He thought of all his neighbors and friends as the hobbits, and the technoloy was sort of what would happen to the shire if Frodo failed.

I also heard somewhere that the ring symbolized technology, but I'm not sure where...sorry for the lack of actual quotes.

Birdland · 11-27-2002, 05:13 PM

Every author is going to lift something from their life experiences when they are writing a book. That's pretty much a given. This doesn't have to be considered allegory, just a good author following the old rule to "write about what you know".

I suppose if Tolkien was searching for what he considered to be the perfect beast villain, it would follow that he would choose a spider, (and it would be a pretty good choice, at that.) Even if you are not particularly afraid of spiders, one as big as a car would be enough to give anyone the creeps.

As for the Eagles: I believe I read some reference about the Eagles not choosing to involve themselves in the affairs of Men except under very special circumstances. In fact, the Eagles seem to only assist Men (or Hobbits) at the bidding of Gandalf, at least in the Third Age. Since both Gandalf and the Eagles are affiliated with Manwë, I suppose this is only fitting.

I'm very glad that Tolkien did choose to use the Eagles sparingly. Most readers think of them as a kind of Deus Ex Machina, (or perhaps that should be Aquilas Ex Machina). If he had used them to get his characters out of any kind of scrape, it would have been just too convenient.

Iargwath · 11-28-2002, 01:35 AM

How about the idea of war? If im not mistaken, in a documentary it mentioned Tolkiens services in war. That could be seen as another connection.

davem · 11-28-2002, 08:43 AM

Tolkien Lived at Sarehole near (too near for him!) to Birmingham in the English Midlands, till, I think, he was about 8.
The Ring, according to his son Christopher, symbolised The Machine - 'The Machine' for Tolkien wasn't just technology/machinery, it was our use of technology to control & coerce others - to force them to live as we want them to. So, the Ring is the ultimate machine. Christopher also says Magic is part of the Machine mentality, if it is used to impose control on others. So The 'Machine' is a mentality, the mentality which builds & uses machinery, rather than the machines themselves.
Good source for this is a vhs - JRRT -A fim portrait of JRR Tolkien, available through the Tolkien Society, among others, which has a very long interview with Christopher Tolkien, & Tolkien's other children & friends who knew him. Lots of insights into Tolkien's works.

davem · 11-28-2002, 08:53 AM

This is the Amazon address for the JRRT vhs, but its in the UK PAL vhs format, so won't play on US machines http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...217966-8623664

11-27-2002, 12:58 PM	#1
Helkasir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North of the Iron Hills Posts: 89	connections form Tolkiens life to LOTR. I just read the official biography by Carten Humphrey, and noticed some stuff... For one, Tolkien hated flying, said that was "Immoral" or something to that degree. Could that be why the Eagles only come in the direst of situations? When Tolkien was three years old, he was bit by a Tarantula while living in South Africa, and would have died had the nurse not been there to suck the venom from the bite. That the reason for the huge spiders inhabiting ME? Some of this just made think. Thought I'd share it with you all... __________________ "Onen i-Estal Edain, u-chebin estel anim."

11-27-2002, 03:39 PM	#2
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Well, it is possible to read all sorts of stuff into LOTR Tolkien was moved from queit Africa to busy, poluted London or something. Is that why "technologie" is made by Saruman who is a BAD character? Or maybe it is because he was in the war and technologie killed all kinds of people. Tolkien was a church-goer, maybe LOTR is an allegory of the bible or a biblical story? That's all that I can think of for now. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

11-27-2002, 04:27 PM	#3
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	Not allegory! How many times has Tolkien stressed this in letters, and even in the introduction to LotR? I heard somewhere that after Africa he lived in a quiet little town that was generally taken over by a mining facility. He thought of all his neighbors and friends as the hobbits, and the technoloy was sort of what would happen to the shire if Frodo failed. I also heard somewhere that the ring symbolized technology, but I'm not sure where...sorry for the lack of actual quotes. __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.

11-28-2002, 01:35 AM	#5
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	How about the idea of war? If im not mistaken, in a documentary it mentioned Tolkiens services in war. That could be seen as another connection. __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

11-28-2002, 08:43 AM	#6
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Tolkien Lived at Sarehole near (too near for him!) to Birmingham in the English Midlands, till, I think, he was about 8. The Ring, according to his son Christopher, symbolised The Machine - 'The Machine' for Tolkien wasn't just technology/machinery, it was our use of technology to control & coerce others - to force them to live as we want them to. So, the Ring is the ultimate machine. Christopher also says Magic is part of the Machine mentality, if it is used to impose control on others. So The 'Machine' is a mentality, the mentality which builds & uses machinery, rather than the machines themselves. Good source for this is a vhs - JRRT -A fim portrait of JRR Tolkien, available through the Tolkien Society, among others, which has a very long interview with Christopher Tolkien, & Tolkien's other children & friends who knew him. Lots of insights into Tolkien's works. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

11-27-2002, 05:13 PM	#4
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	Every author is going to lift something from their life experiences when they are writing a book. That's pretty much a given. This doesn't have to be considered allegory, just a good author following the old rule to "write about what you know". I suppose if Tolkien was searching for what he considered to be the perfect beast villain, it would follow that he would choose a spider, (and it would be a pretty good choice, at that.) Even if you are not particularly afraid of spiders, one as big as a car would be enough to give anyone the creeps. As for the Eagles: I believe I read some reference about the Eagles not choosing to involve themselves in the affairs of Men except under very special circumstances. In fact, the Eagles seem to only assist Men (or Hobbits) at the bidding of Gandalf, at least in the Third Age. Since both Gandalf and the Eagles are affiliated with Manwë, I suppose this is only fitting. I'm very glad that Tolkien did choose to use the Eagles sparingly. Most readers think of them as a kind of Deus Ex Machina, (or perhaps that should be Aquilas Ex Machina). If he had used them to get his characters out of any kind of scrape, it would have been just too convenient.

11-28-2002, 08:53 AM	#7
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	This is the Amazon address for the JRRT vhs, but its in the UK PAL vhs format, so won't play on US machines http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...217966-8623664 __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

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