Whom would Tolkien endorse?

[Nogrod]

Now as the primariers are going the height of their power who would Tolkien endorse? Huckabee? I can't belive it. Romney, no way. Clinton, no chance; and Obama has no chance either...

Mc Cain for Tolkien? Or do you have arguments to point me wrong? It looks like he would be Tolkien's candidate.

I do admire Tolkien but I'm not sure if I'd endorse the same candidate as he would... (I'd love to see Obama to win) But I don't have a say in this so I might just stand back and stay quiet... But I'm interested in this.

So who would it be for Tolkien?

[The Might]

Not sure if the Downs is really the place to discuss political stuff as comments may easily give rise to not so friendly reactions.

Actually, about the question I don't really have a clue since I am not interested in what happens in the US, because mostly it's not the President that really decides stuff, only the people behind him (take Bush as the best example).
However, I'd rather see him go with a Republican rather then a Democrat. I wonder what Thenamir will say on this.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by The Might

Not sure if the Downs is really the place to discuss political stuff as comments may easily give rise to not so friendly reactions.

Well, if this were in Books, it might generate discussion of Tolkien's own political thoughts, particularly about how his stories present monarchial systems. Is The Shire the only community without a formal kingship? (Yes, I know it falls under Aragorn's domains, but The Shire functions without any day to day actual fealty to a king.)

On the other hand, this is in the Mirth section, so we'd best not proceed mirthlessly. That said, . . .

If the Presidency were a burden, as the One Ring was, we'd have to look for an unsuspected Bearer who freely volunteers himself (er, herself--let's be politically correct). And we'd have to identify who might, Boromir-like, want to take up the Ring 'cause it belongs in the family, so to speak. And we'd have to watch out for a Gollem who pathetically pines after his Precious. And who would play Faithful Sam?

We could also consider which primary race resembles which great battle. Or, for example, would the Paths of the Dead mean that deceased voters actually had a legal vote?

And if Oprah is a king-maker, who does that make her in Middle-earth? Frankly, I've never been able to decide if she is, because of her appetite and weight problem, Shelob-like, or if, because of how she has so successfully created a marketable vehicle for herself, she ressembles Galadriel.

And we do have a White Tower and a White House. Shall we have a Steward or a Return of the King?

Is this the sort of thing Tolkien would have put in his pipe to smoke?

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by The Might

Not sure if the Downs is really the place to discuss political stuff as comments may easily give rise to not so friendly reactions.

My thoughts exactely!

I don't think that Tolkien would endorse anyone. Unlike today, celebrities of that age weren't involved deeply into politics. They didn't go campaign with the guy that they liked, that was unheard of back then.

Also anyone who says that Tolkien would endorse a certain candidate is dead wrong. We don't know who he would endorse, so lets just leave it at that!

[Mithalwen]

Umm Tolkien would not have regarded himselfas a celebrity and in the UK celebrities are not really involved in party politics (as opposed to issue politics) though our most recent former PM was a bit of a fame junky .... so objectively -

Tolkien seems on the surface to have been what we call here a "small c" conservative. However I am sure his childhood experiences would have made him in favour of the NHS and the safety net provided by the welfare system. His treatment of Sam might be seen as an endorsement of social mobility - a move away from the hereditary principle towards meritocracy. He restores the king it is true but that King devolves power in the Shire to it's inhabitants. As a Catholic he may also have had a sympathy for those who were outside the establishment.

We can fairly safely assume that ecological issues would have been extremely important to him - he wrote "not a penny for concorde" on his tax payment and we know he would have had a very small carbon foot print. He owned a car only briefly, travelled abroad little and walked and cycled for day to day transport. His homes had very little in the way of mondern conveniences (apart from the few years in Bournemouth) - an example to us all in that regard.

He was a soldier and participated in the battle of the Somme in which a million combatants lost their lives. His letters reveal his anxiety about his sons who served in WW2 so neither "surrender monkey" - to use a horrid phrase - nor war-monger I would judge. Certainly he would admire McCain's courage and powers of endurance shown during his time as a POW regardless of what he thought of his politics.

I am not qualified to judge which of the candidates he would prefer and certainly I doubt he would do anythong so vulgar as endorse anyone - I have to say that having been raised to respect the secrecy of the ballot (though ballot papers are numbered and could in theory be traced) - the idea of even being registered as a voter to a particular party is somewhat bizarre.

However although Tolkien was born and died in the reigns of two great queens his works would suggest that he did not favour "ruling queens"

[Nogrod]

I do understand your points The Might and Groin. And I do agree we shouldn't talk politics in the Downs anyway - at least in the sense that we would start arguing who should be the president of the United States.

But that was not what I meant. Both Bethberry's and Mith's posts were more like the thing I had in mind eg. either to think about the prof's beliefs and how they would fit the contemporary world or to have fun with the idea.

I didn't want to send this to the Books as it would have easily gotten too heated there. That's why the Mirth - and because here we can more easily build up crazy theories as well. *kudos to Bethberry*

Originally Posted by Groin

We don't know who he would endorse, so lets just leave it at that!

So you haven't yet run into a thread here on the 'Downs speculating about anything Tolkien might have thought and which we do not know? Are we reading the same forum?
(after just reading through Mith's points about how easy it is to be misunderstood here I'll just underline this: in all friendship and goodwill Groin, and a smile added)

~*~

Coming back to the topic then. What I found quite interesting was the realisation that there are not too many candidates around there whom Tolkien would endorse - or if the term has to strong connotations to popstars "endorsing products" then to back or vote. My suggestion of him going for McCain was mainly based on a pick for the least repulsive for him.

Ecological, socially conservative, cultured... Why is it that kind of people don't make it through in today's world?

Would Tolkien be marked a weirdo in today's world or just an unhappy voter with no real choises?

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So you haven't yet run into a thread here on the 'Downs speculating about anything Tolkien might have thought and which we do not know? Are we reading the same forum?

Yes, I have run across those threads, but those were all about fantasy beliefs, not political beliefs.


Alright Nogrod, I’ll humor you a bit.

From my understanding, Tolkien was a staunch traditionalist. In his religious and political views he was mostly conservative, in the sense of favouring established conventions and orthodoxies over innovation and modernization. So I don’t think he’d go for the whole “change” discussions that are such a big issue this election year.

Tolkien said, "My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy – or to 'unconstitutional' Monarchy." I interperate this as him wanting as little government as possible.

He was a devout Roman Catholic, so I don’t think he’d be too keen on the abortion issue. So out of all the candidates that were running, I’d say he’d choose Fred Thompson or Duncan Hunter.

WARNING: My choices may have been slightly slanted towards my own beliefs. Do not take them seriously!