Gollum..

[DSV]

how can it be that gollum does'nt grow old and weak when he is without the ring as bilbo did?? I mean if bilbo starts to grow old again so soon after he left the ring to frodo, should'nt gollum be dead of old age or atleast very weak?

[skip spence]

^You would think so yes. I can think of three possible explanaitions why he didn't.

*Gollum might have been very young when he originally stole the ring. Had he been say 15 to 20 years old at that time his aging process might have stopped there. When he lost his ring he once again started to age but since hobbits often live beyond the age of a 100 years he would still be fairly vital at the time of the war of the ring. Didn't something like 60 years pass from the time he lost he lost the ring until the war?

*The suspended aging process caused by the ring might have affected Gollum more profoundly than it did Bilbo since he had it for much longer and (presumably) used it more frequently. The effect might have lingered on even after he lost it.

*Tolkien might have overlooked this.

[Gordis]

Firstly, Bilbo didn't age dramatically between the time he left the Ring to Frodo (TA 3001) and the War of the Ring (3018). It was only after the Ring was destroyed that he has aged very fast.

Arwen: "For you know the power of that thing which is now destroyed; and all that was done by that power is now passing away. But your kinsman possessed this thing longer than you. He is ancient in years now, according to his kind; and he awaits you, for he will not again make any long journey save one."-LOTR, Many partings.

I think it was like that. Bilbo was 50 when he got the Ring. He remained the same age (physically) until 3001, then started to age again. So by 3018 he was 50+17=67 years old physically. With the Ring destroyed, he became 111+17=128 years old all of a sudden, which is very old for a hobbit.

As for Gollum, let us say he was 17 in TA 2463, when he got the Ring. He was physically still 17 when he lost it in 2941. He started to age normally, so by 3018 he was 17+77= 94 - old, but still fit and quite well adapted to the life in the wilderness. However he knew that with the Ring destroyed he would "turn into dust" (becoming suddenly 573 years old and thus dead.)

And skip spence is right, in addition there might have been some lingering effects of the ring, making those who had it once age at a slower rate afterwards.

[DSV]

thank you, that was some very good answers

[Boromir88]

*The suspended aging process caused by the ring might have affected Gollum more profoundly than it did Bilbo since he had it for much longer and (presumably) used it more frequently. The effect might have lingered on even after he lost it.

I think this reasoning from skip spence is a sound answer. As it is evident Bilbo was not "bound" to the ring in the way that Gollum was:

"It may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handing it on to someone else's care - and that only at an early stage, when it first begins to grip. But as far as I know Bilbo alone in history has ever gone beyond playing, and really done it. He needed all my help too."

"Yes, sooner or later - later, if he is strong or well-meaning to begin with, but neither strength nor good purpose will last - sooner or later the dark power will devour him."

"Pity? it was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded, Frodo. Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began his ownership of the Ring so. With Pity."

(All quotes are from A Shadow of the Past)

Bilbo acquired the Ring because of his pity for Gollum, and he also didn't have any knowledge about the power/nature of the Ring. As Gandalf explains, Bilbo blamed himself for all the wierd things happening (like the Ring slipping off Bilbo's finger at times), not on the Ring. Where Gollum, on the other hand, instantly murdered to get the Ring, and he goes on to possess it for 500 years.

The Ring was "just getting a grip" on Bilbo, where Gollum had become completely enthralled to the Ring (I believe it is Gandalf who goes on about Gollum's fate being tied to the Ring).

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

bange

What is that meant to say? I'm sorry, but I really can't understand what word fits there, maybe "obtained" but that no even near how its spelt.

Anyway, all the points I was going to make on this thread have already been said, so there is no point repeating.

[Boromir88]

What us that meant to say. I'm sorry, but I really can't understand what word fits there, maybe "obtained" but that no even near how its spelt.

That was a horrible typo on my part. It's supposed to be "began," don't ask me how I typed "bange." It probably had something to do with my being up at 3 AM and writing that post. Anyway, it's "began," I'll go and fix that now.

[Eönwë]

I can't really cmplain, what with my spelling is as us

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

There's no evidence to back this up, but perhaps part of the reason Bilbo started feeling tired and "stretched" could be because he was a genuinely good soul. Perhaps the Ring was wearing him down.

Gollum on the other hand was already a corrupt individual--he had within him the desire to kill for the Ring, and so perhaps he reacted differently to posession of it?

The Ring wore on Bilbo, but in the end his soul was still pure and resilient enough to actually act on the idea of passing it to Frodo (granted, with some encouragement). The Ring twisted Gollum to a greater extent. He became tough and cruel.

Maybe it also has to do with how people came into posession of the Ring. Gollum got it by murder; Bilbo through a less potent combination of accident/fate and trickery.

I dunno. Just a thought, and not a very well-articulated one at that.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Azaelia of Willowbottom

Maybe it also has to do with how people came into posession of the Ring. Gollum got it by murder; Bilbo through a less potent combination of accident/fate and trickery.

I agree:

Originally Posted by Shadow of the past, FotR

It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need. And he has been well rewarded, Frodo. Be sure that he took so little hurt from the evil, and escaped in the end, because he began his ownership of the Ring so. With Pity.

[Inziladun]

I think Gollum's lust for the Ring had a noteworthy effect on him. Aragorn said as much:

His malice is great and gives him a strength hardly to be believed in one so lean and withered.

As was said earlier, he had been almost completely possessed by the Ring, unlike Bilbo.

[MaultheStoor]

*insulted*
Just kidding. I think the Ring had the effect it did on Gollum was because he "wore it until it tired him." He must have had it on day and night, and he also had it longer.