gandalf and the name incanus

i know that gandalf was called by the name incanus in the south of middle-earth, but does that mean some in rohan and gondor called him by that name, or does it mean the people of harad?

[Raynor]

In the Unfinished Tales, it is noted that:

Originally Posted by The Istari, UT

The name Incánus is apparently "alien," that is neither Westron, nor Elvish (Sindarin or Quenya), nor explicable by the surviving tongues of Northern Men. A note in the Thain's Book says that it is a form adapted to Quenya of a word in the tongue of the Haradrim meaning simply "North-spy" (Inka + nush).

Given the etymology of the name and its meaning, I would say it reffers completely to Harad.

that makes me wonder if gandalf traveled to harad often and if so for what purpose?

[Bêthberry]

Perhaps he was mixed up in the coffee trade? Or the Haradrim confused him with others in the coffee trade? Maybe all wizards looked alike to them.

[SarumanCymraeg]

Originally Posted by axemaster

that makes me wonder if gandalf traveled to harad often and if so for what purpose?

I'm pretty sure Gandalf did travel to Harad, or at least 'south', at least once. It is only to the east that he never went.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Why, do you suppose, did he not go east?

[ninja91]

Is the East not where the Blue Wizard(s) dwelt? And he might not have gone west anyway because... what is there in the East???

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

There might have been millions of willing fighters, untouched by evil, leagues and leagues into the east.

[ninja91]

You mean armies to help fight the forces of Mordor?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Maybe. But if Gandalf's too busy smoking his weed to go enlist them...

[ninja91]

Good one!!
Plus, if there were many out there, I think that the Easterlings would have courted them.
And of course, how far east did land reach anyway? There may not have been leagues and leagues...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

This makes me think of the power of holy men. Was it not Gandalf's responsibility to go among the Easterlings and convert them to the teachings of the Valar? Sure, they might have sliced him up and offered the old man to their gods, but sacrifices have to be made on both sides.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by EotR

Was it not Gandalf's responsibility to go among the Easterlings and convert them to the teachings of the Valar? Sure, they might have sliced him up and offered the old man to their gods, but sacrifices have to be made on both sides.

No, that was the job of the Blue Wizards. And I think that you may just have hit upon the answer to the age-old question of what happened to them ...

oh yeah well gandalf could whip any blue wizard any day of the week and twice on sunday!

[narfforc]

You do not know that for sure Axemaster none know/knew the capabilities of Alatar and Pallando. The Blue Wizards were aligned to Orome, who of all the Valar travelled furthest East, they may well have also gone back to Cuivienen to see if any Avari still lived there. It was said that Orome taught his people to hunt beasts of evil, and this they did, no doubt the Blue Wizards were visiting old hunting grounds all over the East.

[Arathul]

I don't remember where i read it but there's suppose to be a rebellion in Harad against their ruler who's supportive of sauron cause. it's like a conflict between the king's men and the faithful at Numenor. maybe Gandalf got in touch with this rebels to gain intel.

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

There might have been millions of willing fighters, untouched by evil, leagues and leagues into the east.

True, but Gandalf's purpose and main work was with Gondorian/Rohirrim/Shire lands. Since Gandalf travelled in regular sort of ways, not disappearing-reappearing in an instant he was limited in his scope, even with Shadowfax.
It would have done no good for him to leave his responsibilities and take over someone else's even if they came to fail.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

He said it himself: that exactly when he needed the time (in the great years) he had none. Clearly implying that he had loads of time before then, strolling around the Shire and whatnot. Would it have been too much to make one quick trip out east?

Say what you want, I think the boy Incanus is too lazy and willing to rely on his unreliable team-mates.

[Holbytlass]

But we know after-the-fact that the Blue wizards did not succeed in their task and were lost. So I'm sure Gandalf believed that they were doing their part while he was doing his.

When it came to crunch time there was nothing he could do about what they've done-more appropriately what they haven't done.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Did they never think that it would have been useful to keep in touch every so often, to see how things were going? The wise, ha! Wise, my foot.

[Holbytlass]

Sure! They were all keeping in touch. Saruman was in touch with Sauron, Radagast was in touch with the birds, Gandalf with the elves(what's the mind reading stuff called? auswe? osanwe?) hmm, I guess the Blue wizards were in touch with each other.

Perhaps, Narfforc, has a point-maybe Alatar and Pallando did get rid of evil beasts that may have been set upon Gondor. Much like Gandlaf saying (inLost tales) that it was good Bilbo and Bard got rid of Smaug or they would have him to deal with.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That is certainly not superior to, on arrival in Middle-earth, saying "Right boys, meet at the pub 100 years from now! Discuss how things are going."

If only the wizards were Scottish. That is exactly what would have happened. Especially if Gandalf (the instigator) promised a round.

[A_Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Raynor

In the Unfinished Tales, it is noted that:

Given the etymology of the name and its meaning, I would say it reffers completely to Harad.

But Tolkien decided later 1967, that Incánus was a Quenya name and the name came from the earlier times of Gondor. It follows this quote:

Originally Posted by The Istari, UT

On this assumption an etymology is proposed from the Quenya elements in(id) - "mind" and kan- "ruler", expecially in cáno, cánu "ruler, governor, chieftain" (which later constitutes the second element in the names of Turgon and Fingon). In the note my father referred to the latin word incánus 'grey-haired' in such a way as to suggest that this was the actual origin of this name of Gandalf's when The Lord of the Rings was written, which if true would eb very surprising; and at the end of the discussion he remarked that the coincidence in from of the Quenya name and the Latin word must be regarded as 'accident' ...

It seems, that Tolkien changed his mind about the origin of the name. First it came from the wide South, from Harad, but then after it seems unlikely, that Gandalf travelled so far, it was changed to old Gondor.

[Rumil]

As A Brandybuck helpfully explains, Incanus seems to have originally been intended as a word from the language of the Haradrim, meaning 'North-Spy', then Tolkien changed his mind to make it a word meaning 'Mind-Ruler' or similar and derived from Quenya. I think a possible explanation suggests itself, which I'll expand upon and have a go at some mad speculation!

I think the name may be a pun from around the time of the Kin-Strife. It would have seemed a complimentary name derived from the scholarly Quenya, but in reality conceal an insult understandable to those who knew the language of Gondor's southern fiefs. No doubt Gandalf understood exactly what was being said. In the same way Orthanc meant both 'Mount Fang' and 'Cunning Mind' (or similar, can't find ref at mo) depending which language you were using.

During this time Castamir usurped the throne of Gondor's rightful king, Eldacar. After a great war between the two parties Castamir was defeated and killed at the battle of Erui TA 1447, but his sons and people eventually escaped to Umbar with the fleet. The party of the usurpers was strongest at Pelargir and south towards Umbar.

This raises the fascinating possibility that Gandalf involved himself directly in these momentous events, perhaps encouraging Eldacar and helping him build up support to retake his kingdom and even 'spying' on the usurpers. Scope for fanfic perhaps?