WWJ X: Hithlum Zydeco Blues; Hísilómë in Hísimë

[Valesse]

Action. Adventure. Spit valves.

RULES:

Roles:
- 3 werewolves
- 1 seer
- 8 ordinary camp members

Werewolves: Each Night it is the werewolves' responsiblity to choose one camp member to attack. After doing so, message the moderator/co-mod with their victim's name. As always private messages to other wolves are not allowed during the Day, and (if it should come to it) if the number of wolves out weighs or matches those of the ordinary camp members the game is over.

Seer: Like the wolves, the Seer is to report into the mod/co-mod the camp member they have selected to dream about for the night. (We promise we won't tell ) They will be informed about that camp member's role. Seers are on the OCM's team and are treated accordingly. Feh! Seers!

Ordinary Camp Members (Ordo): Besides macho music skills, you have the power of majority. Good luck with that. Just like any other camps you might have gone to as children, there is to be no talking at Night. ..And no giggling either!


The Nitty-Gritty:

- Players must be in invisible mode.

- 24/24 Day-Night cycles. (Traditional)

- Revealled roles upon death.

- Werewolves are only to message one another (period) and should only do so at Night. The only exception to this is the first Day: because of time issues, the first night will not be part of the game ergo the wolves will be allowed to plot only on the first Day. (The Seer will also be allowed one day-dream, don't worry. ; ) )

- Limited retractable voting will be allowed.

- Players are to be in invisable mode at all times while they are in the game.

- There is to be no Double-lynching.

- Players have a two day Missing-In-Action limit. That is, if they fail to post and/or vote in two days they will become an additional victim. This fate does not exclude werewolves.

- No narration clues will be given even if it is very tempting.

- Editting is for grammar or spelling only. You are encouraged to take your time in making your posts as accurate as possible originally.

- Traditional vote style (++ M31k0r) and in the case of a retraction (-- LOLeves). Votes are to be made in a line all of their own for easy spotting, and are encouraged (but are not limited) to be in and or near the end.

- Posts concerning conflicts should be stated in the TiG Jr thread

- As far as urgent matters are concerned PM Valesse and Gil-Galad.

[Valesse]

An Afternoon in Hìsimë...:
It had been a long day's trek.
Currently the team found themselves in some sort of clearing, if one could call it that. It was getting late, and a mist had enveloped them a few hours ago, growing thicker and thicker as time went on. Now it was nearing sunset and visibility would only worsen until the heat of the next day would drive it off. In short, it was time to put up their tents and build a fire. Fortunately, the camp members were almost humorously well prepared with their tents, and pails, and plates, and spoons. Within an hour the fire was blazing, and each person had their own private tent furnished with everything from bed rolls and buckets to candlesticks and in the case of Eomer, the publican, a fully functional wet bar... but most imporantly they all had their instruments.

It was Gil-Galad and Valesse's idea. He, an artisan spoon player, and she, a Master accordionist, had sent word far and wide over the less wilder lands that a great Zydeco Camp (unconventional instruments welcome) was to be held. However, what skill they had with their music or over-packing, they lacked in actually camping, and there-in laid the first problem.

It was quickly growing dark, and the camp members formed a circle around the fire for their first lesson. But before it started the two camp leaders had discovered something dreadfully wrong. In charge of directions it was Valesse's responsiblity to lead the team to their proper destination but, in actuality, she had the map turned up-side-down most of the journey and now --as best as they could figure-- they were deep in Hìsilómë.

...

Hoping that the camp go-ers were none-the-wiser of their mistake, Valesse asked "What is music?" as she and Gil-Galad joined them at the fire.
Taken back by the simplicity of the question, Kuruharan quickly replied "Melodic sound."
"I've always considered it a kind of way to communicate without speaking" let out Roa_Aoife, thinking deeply.
"You're all off." Glirdan sighed, rolling his eyes. "Music is art."
Gil-Galad sat nodding, agreeing with everyone as they took their turn to reply before speaking up himself. "Music is all of these things...but most importantly, it gets me money."
"And how!" Macalaure cried merrily, raising his glass.

Valesse cleared her throat sternly and continued into lecturing the different theories of music and it's effects. After an hour of this it became obvious that the speech wasn't completely original, as she had to excused herself to replace the batteries in her walkmen. While she was gone, Gil-Galad raised his hands in the air and promised he wouldn't let this happen again, and instructed the camp members to go get their instruments before Valesse had time to return.

They did, and as a reward, were allowed to break the ice by playing their favorite songs until it was time to call it a night.



Day 1, Morning:
Not only was the mist still around in the morning, it seemed to be thicker... Now to the point where only the torches of each respective tent were blurry signals of something beyond the five feet of visable world. This did not dampen the camp's moral, however, and around the camp fire they waited for the leaders to instruct them on their first day's lesson.

"It's been an hour" moaned Valier, the town pickler, who's claim to fame was her successfully pickled zebra.
Mormegil nodded "And it's also been wet. I didn't expect this kind of weather at all."
"Maybe..." Formendacil hesitated "Maybe we should check to see if they're up?"

Using her unique skills, Mithalwen shooed her peers over toward the camp leaders' tents, but as they closed in, each became more and more aware of the eerie tingle of hair raising on the back of their necks. First, they peaked inside of Gil-Galad's tent, eager to wake him before the Valesse in fear of another kind of lecture. What they discovered terrified them.

The utter silence of their screams echoed around inside of the tent, which had been obviously quite well sacked. It was simply amazing to them that no one had heard the noise at all during the night. Inching closer, the campers found Gil-Galad at a folding table which he had brought in order to write his nature-inspired spoon melodies on. He was slumped over, and carefully, Nogrod the idle fanatasist surveyed the damage quietly. Gil-Galad, the talented artisan, had been choked by his own spoons.

Out of fear, the group rushed to Valesse's tent, throwing open the flap to see her leaning over her accordion strangely. With extreme caution, JennyHallu nudged her shoulder and shrieked to find that, not only was the B Flat key off of the accordion broken and removed, but it was replaced into the accordionist. Without further hesitation Jenny let out a loud cry "She's been stabbed with... with... A Sharp key!"

"Who could have done such a thing?!" Kitanna studdered, fighting back tears.
"Not 'who', but 'What', didgeridoo-er" replied Nogrod. "These crimes were not commited by people, but wolves! Just look at the fur and the scratches all over the victims!"
Curious, Eomer inquired "But how does a wolf choke..or stab someone?"
"Not just any wolf..." gasped Macalaure, pointing at a typical calling card and taunting letter "Werewolves!"

Quickly the mass of campers circled the scrawling, squinting and mumbling as they read out loud the message:

'Trust us three, we did you a favor by bumping off the Accordionist,
But we're serious about kill you all! Thats why we nabbed the Spoon-artist, too.

Sinc...- Your's Truely,
the three wolves.'

"Three!" choked Roa_Aoife. "Three werewolves!"
"And they're all probably standing right here with us, playing along..." grumbled Nogrod.

The Living:
Roa_Aoife- trick pilot, double-necked electric guitar.
Valier- town pickler, piccolo.
Macalaure- unskilled inventor of funny fake occupation ideas, on the verge of bankruptcy, tuba.
Mithalwen- cat-herd, viola.
JennyHallu- street corner doom-sayer, aeolian wind harp.
Nogrod- idle fantasist, tin whistle.
Mormegil- non-practicing wizard, triangle.
Formendacil- pirate, pipe organ.
Eomer of the Rohirrim- publican, double-bass.
Kitanna- hermit, didgeridoo.
Glirdan- town musician, sax.
Kuruharan- condottieri, flute.

The Dead:
Valesse- Master Accordionist (Mod) stabbed with A Sharp key.
Gil-Galad- Artisan spoon player (Mod) choked on his musical spoons.
______________

Day One has begun.
Wolves- plot,
Seer- day-dream
And Ordos start discussing.

[Formendacil]

Well. Here we are again... Day 1.

Do I really need to repeat how much I rather dislike them?

No?

Excellent.

Okay, since post-by-post analyses are all the rage these days, and also since no posts have occurred yet, let me give you a rundown of what WILL happen:

Lot's of in-character posting, followed by lots of misinterpretation thereof, followed by voting that is either random or based on misinterpretation. Day 1 will be completely useless as long as it lasts.

Of course, once Day 4 rolls around, it will be found supremely useful, but at the moment it will be no help in catching a werewolf. If we're lucky, we'll do that by accident.

People will disagree with me.

Morm, in particular, will disagree with me, unless and/or until one or the other of us is found to be Innocent.

Eomer of the Rohirrim will set off all sorts of instinct alarms before being lynched. He may or may not be guilty.

We will kill various Innocents.

We will kill or come close to killing the Seer. If we don't get him, the Werewolves will.

I will come back in the next hour or three... to respond to people who disagree with me.

[Kuruharan]

Lot's of in-character posting

Far be it from me to disappoint...

Saluti, Amici! How are things? Hmm…not so good perhaps, eh? Put’s me in mind of the time that Francesco Sforza tried to murder me by seeding my bodyguards with assassins. Ugh! Everybody was stacked up like…but perhaps this isn’t the time for that story!

Rather than bemoaning our DAY ONE fate, I'm going to ask if anybody has any bright ideas for improving this silly comedy that traditionally ends up with an innocent bambino being strung up leaving a wide range of clues pointing in all the wrong directions…

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Rather than bemoaning our DAY ONE fate, I'm going to ask if anybody has any bright ideas for improving this silly comedy that traditionally ends up with an innocent bambino being strung up leaving a wide range of clues pointing in all the wrong directions…

Just a quick comment to this. Let's play hard on Day1 too. Just check here what may happen on Day1 - and how it can be played...

[JennyHallu]

*JennyHallu walks up with an odd-shaped wooden contraption. She sets it down, adjusts it carefully, and walks away as it begins to produce all manner of delicate breathy un-melody. As she sits by the campfire, she wipes a tear from her eye*

Ah, I am just such a maestra.

Anyway, to settle down to business, the WORLD is GOING to END.

Eventually.

Someday.

Soon.

But not today. At least not if I can help it. These malevolent monsters may indeed be the sound of Armageddon, but I have lived my life with one goal, and one goal only: to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.

These wolves offend my sensibilities. The end of the world should be a calm, civilized affair. No blood.

I am all for killing them first, and certainly I believe it can be done today.

[Kuruharan]

It is usually considered bad form to make direct reference to other games, much less link to them.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

It is usually considered bad form to make direct reference to other games, much less link to them.

As far as THAT goes, I think most of us have given up not referencing other games... but I agree that linking is rather poor taste. It puts the onus of finding out what you mean on us, the readers, when it would be easier for you to summarize your point from the game, and have us take it on trust.

And there have been enough players in enough games that most of us would be able to soon find out if you were lying.

Oh, and I foresee that referencing other games shall be the first big issue toDay. It beats taking offence at nothing but in-character posts, I suppose.

[mormegil]

*ding*

*ding*

*ding*

My triangle sure sounds good doesn't it?

Well I must get this out of the way quickly...

YOU SHALL NOT PASS FOUL HOUND OF SAURON I AM WEILDER OF THE FLAME OF ARNOR....Well perhaps I'll just remove my cloak here...."

Glad to see Formendacil is still intransignet in his stance on Day 1's. Odds are a bit better with 3 of them and 9 of us now isn't it?

[Glirdan]

The impudence of these so called "music lovers" makes me sick. If any of you truly knew what music, I think I'd die of a faint.

Now, on to more pressing matters: Wolves. In a Music Camp. Whoever hear of that!? I mean, do Wolves even like music!? Anyway, the only way we can find out is by tuning(ha! I made a pun!) them out and ridding ourselves of them. Then we can REALLY get to playing music.

Lot's of in-character posting, followed by lots of misinterpretation thereof, followed by voting that is either random or based on misinterpretation. Day 1 will be completely useless as long as it lasts.(Form)

And will forever remain that way unless you do something to tune up (ha, another pun!) your attitude. Look at this Day as a Day filled with....with...okay, I agree. Tis a useless Day, but a necessary Day. Your negative attitude is rather annoying. But I have to agree with everything you said. However, I think we should look at Eomer being amongst us as helpful. I would like to add something about our dear publician: any bandwaggons for this individual shall be looked as suspicious tomorrow, if he's dead and proven innocent that is.

Rather than bemoaning our DAY ONE fate, I'm going to ask if anybody has any bright ideas for improving this silly comedy that traditionally ends up with an innocent bambino being strung up leaving a wide range of clues pointing in all the wrong directions…(Kuru)

Not anything from me at this point. But something may pop up later on in the Day.

May I ask why we must discuss previous villages? Tis a bad thing to do, especially since none of them are musically inclined and all have had a different outcome. Just because you can judge somebody from how they played in one game doesn't mean you should in another, especially if someone decided to change their playing style. So, I would much rather focus our discussions toDay on something more useful. What, I cannot say at this time. But when an idea comes to mind, I shall come forth and let my saxophone tell the story. Until then, adieu.

[Macalaure]

Werewolves, eh?

Ah! All the misfortunes of Arda seem to come upon me! Who is going to buy my funny occupations now in this state of fear and insecurity?

And I cannot even find relief in my music anymore with these hairy, bloodthirsty creatures appearing to cower behind my back any minute. Woe upon us all!

What to do now, what to do...
It is true that my father, who succumbed to the Helcaraxë (and the Angperor Penguin), lived in a village which was able to lynch a wolf on Day 1, but many happy and unhappy circumstances lead to this, so I am not very optimistic at all. 3 wolves, 9 innocents, 25% a chance, it doesn't get any better than that, I fear. But if somebody has an idea to improve it I would very much like to hear about it. Anyway, given the disastrous reputation of Days 1's, I doubt it.

And by the way:

Originally Posted by Valesse

"And how!" Macalaure cried merrily, raising her glass.

I'm male.

And:

- Limited retractable voting will be allowed.

How much is 'limited'? I'd prefer only 1.

[Valier]

Ahh Werewolves!!!! Hmmm would they be good pickled?

I say we catch these fiends and make them pay! Oh poor Valesse and Gil-galad! Not that I won't miss the racket they both mad when they played together....yyyeeccckkk! But what has been done to them is wrong, just wrong!

I know the first Day is maddening and sometimes dull, but we must make the best of it and do what we can. If we hear from everyone toDay, that gives us a little to go on and something to base our suspicions on later on in the Days to come.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

And will forever remain that way unless you do something to tune up (ha, another pun!) your attitude. Look at this Day as a Day filled with....with...okay, I agree. Tis a useless Day, but a necessary Day. Your negative attitude is rather annoying. But I have to agree with everything you said.

Until such time as villagers in general get the idea into their heads that their attempts to catch a wolf on Day 1 will be nothing but luck... I shall continue to rail against them. 'tis only tradition, 'tis only fact I speak, and the overweening optimism of those thinking to catch a wolf by deductions on Day 1 is grating.

By all means, vote, make noise, and look for something interesting... but to expect it to get you anywhere at this time is foolishness.

[Nogrod]

= Kuru
It is usually considered bad form to make direct reference to other games, much less link to them.

I'm sorry. I clearly haven't gotten used to the right taste in this. Even though I know this is a subject of debate anyway.

But my point remains.

= Form
Until such time as villagers in general get the idea into their heads that their attempts to catch a wolf on Day 1 will be nothing but luck... I shall continue to rail against them. 'tis only tradition, 'tis only fact I speak, and the overweening optimism of those thinking to catch a wolf by deductions on Day 1 is grating.

If these kinds of ideas come more common, they become the general excuse of not committing any real ideas on Day1. That plays into the wolves hands, not on the villagers (sorry: campers).

Day1 can make the difference - and that's why I wished to show you an example. Just check how the game can be played! There, it's not a question of luck, but of an athmosphere where everyone had to show some real participation - so the wolves (ie. penguins) couldn't hide behind the babble of pure in-character talk or the distaste of Day1's - and they were caught (one on Day one - and the others very soon on the basis of Day1 things, and they were no stupid penguins...)!

And now I'm shooting myself to my leg as I have to say that I'm not going to be in for a while (a bio & first post upgrade + scheming with Celuien in the Meadhall waiting, pronto, and the clock says it's 3.25AM here). But after I wake up, I'll be in with more substance - if possible.

[Kuruharan]

Ecco! Something just occurred to my fantastically enlightened brain!

(Maestro, make sure that portrait is of my right side. We want to get the flute in proper perspective.)

It seems to me that perhaps Signore Formendacil could be acting just a shade manipulative. His predictions could be a cleverly concealed tactic to direct behavior in a particular direction...since once predictions are announced, people have a tendency to perversely do the opposite. However, this might speak in his favor since he's lamenting...

(more polenta, per favore...)

...the lack of effective action on DAY ONE.

Still, it could be a clever little tactic. I do so love clever little tactics! Like this one time I'd hidden my cavalry in a ravine behind the enemy's flank, and...

[Glirdan]

Still, it could be a clever little tactic. I do so love clever little tactics! Like this one time I'd hidden my cavalry in a ravine behind the enemy's flank, and...(Kuru)

Actually, I must agree with you that it does seem odd that Formendacil keeps bringing up the fact that Day 1's are totaly useless until later on (which makes me ask why are you so negative about them if they become so useful which you said yourself?[directed to Form]) Perhaps he is using this little tactic to hide behind and make himself look less suspicious and merely his normal non helpful self on Day 1. Well, we'll never know unless we lynch him and frankly, I really don't want to vote now, but I may have to do so (It's Canada's Day tomorrow and I will be away from a computer all day). Therefor, my vote is

++Formendacil

Basically completely random. I must depart now. Good day to you all.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Basically completely random. I must depart now. Good day to you all.

Now this is something that always gets me. He just got done agreeing with Kuru and then 'random' votes for Formen. I don't know what to think because Glirdan seems to always be suspicious to me no matter what. So I'm uncertain if it is just mere indolence or something more malign.

Anyway, Kuru asked for productive ideas and here is one. We could assign everybody two other campmates to watch very closely and observe on a more detailed basis. The chances of the wolves getting each other would be slim but even if they did it would be great because after we kill a wolf it might be fairly obvious.

It would go something like this

Morm watches Glirdan and Kuru

Kuru watches Jenny and Formen

Formen watches....you get the picture.

Each person will be watched directly by two people and will be responsible for two. This will break up everybody watching trying to take in all the info and will break it up in more managable pieces. Also people won't slip through the cracks, so to speak. Now it would be imperative for every innocent to view their targets with an open and objective mind. Far too often we fall for the trap of concluding that somebody is a wolf then proving it with any shred of evidence. I'm probably the most guilty of this crime .

[Roa_Aoife]

Until such time as villagers in general get the idea into their heads that their attempts to catch a wolf on Day 1 will be nothing but luck... I shall continue to rail against them. 'tis only tradition, 'tis only fact I speak, and the overweening optimism of those thinking to catch a wolf by deductions on Day 1 is grating.

You know, as the one who caught Boro-wolf on Day 1 using reasonable deductions, I find that statement mildly insulting. (Why must everyone attirbute my accomplishments to luck and not my own skill?)

Morm, that problem with your plan is that we have wolves in the mix. Even if we have two people watching one, we could have a wolf watching a wolf, and making the innocent look bad, or two wolves watching an innocent and making that innocent look bad, or one wolf watching an innocent and still managing to hide.... you get the point. We still can't trust anyone. At least not yet, when we don't know anything. (Ever the advantage of the wolves.)

Anf frankly, Form, if you think it ought to be obvious that Day 1's are useless, why bother stating it? Face facts- those who think they are useless will continue to think so. Those who think they aren't will continue to do so. The only thing statements like yours do is sidetrack us from the problem at hand.

Of course, that may just be your plan. You keep posting, but you aren't saying anything new or useful. Get over yourself and move on.

[Nogrod]

Just going to sleep but can't help commenting on this...

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Anf frankly, Form, if you think it ought to be obvious that Day 1's are useless, why bother stating it? Face facts- those who think they are useless will continue to think so. Those who think they aren't will continue to do so. The only thing statements like yours do is sidetrack us from the problem at hand.

I totally agree! But would still like to point on a problem not openly stated in Roa's answer.

If people think Day1's are useless, why not to skip them all? The only trouble is, that then Day2 will become a new Day1 etc. And if we skip Day2 then with similar reasons...

We need people to open the game and start actually going into the bussiness. One of the main reasons I despise people who a) mock Day1's as an excuse on not to do anything ,or b) basically take on the strategy of posting minimally with no substance, is that it creates an inbalance in the game. Those who really invest in the game = actually play, will be the ones in the lynching-line in the beginning of the game, and those who just hang around (with evil intentions or just being clever enough in that sense) can lay back easily in a game where being lazy is the norm.

The problem is. In a village (a camp) where everyone just hangs around, nothing happens. Hanging around requires something to hang around on! So in a sense all those "I hate Day1's" or "I'll post only once aDay some nonsense" -people are parasites, drinking the blood of those who actually play. And that is morally quite low...

Think of a village inhabitated with 15 Forms! Everyone would just exclaim how stupid saying anything is. How could they decide their votes on any Day? Their Day1 would become Day2, Day3 etc... And surely, they would have made sure, that their votes had been in random, because there is nothing to go for... understandably.

But where's the fun? Where's the excitement? Where's the struggle? Where's the game?

Where's the reason to play anyway?

[Roa_Aoife]

I strongly suggest we move on from arguments for/against Day 1. It will only cause unnecessary confusion and draw us away from our goal.

I have to go, as it's nearing midnight here. (I can't imagine what Nogrod was still doing up.) I'll be back on shortly after my alarm clock wakes me up, but I'll have to go several hours before the deadline.

Give me something to analyze when I get back, okay? (Whee! Analysis!)

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Roa

Morm, that problem with your plan is that we have wolves in the mix. Even if we have two people watching one, we could have a wolf watching a wolf, and making the innocent look bad, or two wolves watching an innocent and making that innocent look bad, or one wolf watching an innocent and still managing to hide.... you get the point. We still can't trust anyone. At least not yet, when we don't know anything. (Ever the advantage of the wolves.)

So what really is the difference between this and the normal other than the wolves are forced to focus on few and when we detect they are deliberately making people look bad they are exposed to a seer dream or a village lynching? Afraid?

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by mormegil

So what really is the difference between this and the normal other than the wolves are forced to focus on few and when we detect they are deliberately making people look bad they are exposed to a seer dream or a village lynching? Afraid?

In this instance the wolves are better able to either redirect us, or hide. I would also like to point out that if we catch a wolf, following your plan would inhibit our ability to review his/her interactions to find the others. Not only that, but it prevents the villagers (campers) from looking in all directions, thus putting blinders on them and forcing to only look in a specified direction. One person may pick up what all others would miss.

Who is making the assignments? You? How do we know you're not wolf, and that you won't keep you or one of your fellows covered like that? Also, as people get lynched, different villagers will be left unguarded, and so slip under the radar, which is exactly what you say you mean to prevent with this plan in the first place. It may have looked good at first, but there are too many flaws in it to work right.

Afraid? I'm afraid of the limits your idea would place on our ability to think for ourselves.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

(which makes me ask why are you so negative about them if they become so useful which you said yourself?[directed to Form])

Actually, I didn't always hate Day 1s...

They've always been my least favourite day in WW. The only concrete thing in the game is the voting record and the night kill record. Any speculation pertaining thereto is mere speculation, until and unless you kill someone.

Then you find out.

And on Day 1, there is no voting record. There is no night kill record (the Mod doesn't count).

And, being of the sort of mind that I am, this means that I am a rather not-fan of Day 1s. I think on one game... back about XVIII or so... I stated rather more strongly than usual just how pointless it is to try and find "evidence" on Day 1. The evidence in Day 1 doesn't crop up until Day 2 or 3 or 4 or... you get the picture.

Well, I being a creature of habit, and habits being what they are... my hatred of Days 1 sort of devoloped into the approved version of Formendacil-in-Werewolf, and, not having anything better to do, I was content to let it be. I am a great respecter of tradition, Werewolf or otherwise, and it would be a shame just to let a tradition die because you all wanted it... and the core reasons for disliking Day 1s remain quite entrenched in my mind.

But if you want to know the REAL reason.... ordo, gifted, or wolf, I like tweaking people's noses. Especially the people like Morm and Roa who are so terribly tweakable...

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Think of a village inhabitated with 15 Forms! Everyone would just exclaim how stupid saying anything is. How could they decide their votes on any Day? Their Day1 would become Day2, Day3 etc... And surely, they would have made sure, that their votes had been in random, because there is nothing to go for... understandably.

No, it wouldn't...

All the Forms would have to vote on Day 1- and being Forms, they would do that.

And then there would be a voting record. And then a Night Kill.

And then things would get interesting.

There is no such thing as a truly, 100% random vote. It simply does not exist, short of draws for names- and I've rarely, if ever, seen that happen.

No, all the "random" votes that float around have SOME reasoning... Not deduction based so much as instinct based, a vote based on a dislike or a gut feeling. Or, in the case of wolves, a very careful crafted vote to make them look innocent, or to make them look like helpful innocents, or to set up a well-crafted, low-key disagreement between themselves and another wolf.

The difficulty is that the Wolvish rationale and the Ordo rationale cannot, typically, be differentiated on Day 1 itself. It is only with the passage of time and the possession of a Kill record that these things come to bear importance.

But where's the fun? Where's the excitement? Where's the struggle? Where's the game?

Where's the reason to play anyway?

In two words: Day 2.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Afraid? I'm afraid of the limits your idea would place on our ability to think for ourselves.

Most of the great Morm-plans of Werewolf have had a tendency to do that...

Seriously, it's really a great comfort to see Morm being his normal, grand scheming self... it means he's perfectly normal, albeit a bit early. This sort of behaviour doesn't usually set in until Day 3ish...

Morm's plan, however, changes little about the real village dynamics.

The Wolves are still intent on deceiving everybody, and everybody is still intent on finding them. The Innocents are still going to bark up entirely the wrong trees, and the Wolves are still going to get caught by the most absurd things.

It might even benefit the wolves to follow Morm's plan. Instead of having to deceive a whole village, each wolf only really has to deceive two people- a potentially much easier task.

Really, I don't see much of a benefit to the village... In fact, the only REAL difference that I'm seeing is that it allows Morm to play organizer. While the chances of Morm being Wolvish are nearly nil in my opinion... the possibility is enough to make me shy away from his grand scheme...

Okay, enough replies now... Off to the other forums, and then to bed. Back before the deadline, I hope.

Unless someone makes a reply in the next little bit, of course.

[Mithalwen]

Hello...... time for token in character post "Here kitty, kitty, kitty..."

Too hot, too sleepy and too soon to get into analysis and random observations are more my thing so...

Form giving his spiel re day ones seems a little too formulaic... he did it last time we played but just seems maybe a bit contrived. He was innocent then btu know I wonder if he is trying to set up one of those "just x being x" type assumptions. Not saying a huge suspicion .. just something to look at...

As Roa, and Nogrod have pointed out ..day ones can be very productive. The number of Fenris wolves bear that out. Given the unusual day 1 scenario.... with wolves pming privately between themselves as they speak openly to us all and a seer getting their dream.. there may be more stuff to watch out for than usual.

Going to have another read.. then perhaps another post before a few hours of arpeggios and a longer spell online with more to look at....

[Mithalwen]

V quick cos I have 3 inutes left on the library pc...


dun likd Morms plan ... if I get another time slot I will expalin...
Glirdan - I don't know if wolves like music ..their singing leaves a lot to be desired. But cats love music just ask Signor Rossini!

[Mithalwen]

Sorry about the triple post but - seemingly I am talking to myself .... or just to my cats...

This is a small village with so far few posts. I can't help thinking that everyone looking at everyone else is so much more likely to produce results at this stage. Also, speaking personally, given that I don't know that anyone else is innocent, I would prefer to read for myself even if there were hundreds of posts. We don't know that the designated analyst is not trying to put a spin on their interpretation.

Analysis is all very well when it produces some insight but too often what people claim to be analyses are merely summaries which clutter the thread. Without these reports it would be easier for the other players to read what X actually said rather than what Y said X said. Screeds of "analysis" are often used as smoke machines by wolves.

The other factor is that instinct can be as useful as logic and certain people read some people better than others either because they know them very well or becasue they know them little and aren't so bound by prejudice. How to allocate watchers to best advantage? Also some people have an near uncanny ability to spot wolves. If Valier, for example, is innocent and on form the last thing we want to do is cramp her style.

Later in a huge game, there might be a case for dividing the burden of post review, but not here, not now..

[Macalaure]

I'll be off the computer for a while now and cannot promise to be back before the deadline.

Random vote (believe it or not):

++ Nogrod

I really hope to be able to retract and cast a new vote with at least a little reason later.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Random vote (believe it or not):

I never do. This is one thing upon which I agree with Formen; votes tend not to be random no matter what the voter says.

Nice to see that once again my plan is mere drivel. It does seem a decent idea to me and I can see both advantages and some disadvantages but I am trying to help, unlike some . Kuru asked for more than inane first day role playing and banter and I think I provided some of that as some serious disussion was given, not much but some.

On the other hand, Formendacil seems to be able to carry our conversations away into the ever productive topic of hating first days. Always a lot of good comes from such conversations. Formen you complain about innocents being lynched for specious reasoning, yet you are a catalyst for many of these lynching due to your constant maunderings about day 1. Inevitably you get WW zealots trying to convert you into loving it and day one is spent being utterly unproductive because the conversation is spent around it...now you have me talking about it .

++Glirdan

Call it 'random'

No, his vote stuck out to me and his willingness to jump on the Formen suspicion train was startling.

[Nogrod]

Oh my! How pathetic!

What I mean, let's do something people! There are two grand-scale football games today and I guess many of us will be away from this game to follow them.

I'll start then...

I find quite innocent:

Mith has been her reasonable and cool self. And that speaks in favour of her to my eyes. Sorry Mith, but you tend to play quite nervously when you have something to lose.

I personally am tended to lean towards arguments produced by Mith and Roa on the matter of Morm's plan. But just because I think the plan a bit crooked, I tend to believe him innocent. A wolf would have been much more careful and thought of the plan more before releasing it to actually appear helpful. Even if I believe Morm could pull the double-triple-whatever -bluff, it would seem far too risky to concentrate everyones attention to oneself with a controversial plan...

I have a faint suspicion:

Form seems to be his normal anti-Day1 campaigner. Although I think he has been more talkative and argumentative this time. I like the thing that he is involving himself more in the game. But why be so outspoken in this game?

Roa is reasonable as always, but that's just the scary part in her: she can pull it when she's evil. I always suspect Roa, almost always. I guess there has been one game where I trusted her...

Kuruharan is hard to judge because of the in-role posture that seems to stick. What Kuru actually says seems reasonable enough, but there is so little of it. And the mask? Well wolves love masquarades.

Glirdan's fast jump to foreseeable anti-Form -movement did look pretty bad. Here I agree with Morm. It's not much, but more than nothing.

Macalaure, not because he threw a vote for me, but because he threw a "random vote", underlining it's randomness. That's the way how wolves like to cloud the tracks they might leave by their voting record.


But probably I will be voting someone who actually tries to destroy the Day1's by not participating. Just from pure annoyance. Of course if there is even a half-reasonable case to make when the deadline approaches I will go with that.

And yes: we have Valier in the camp. It would not be a bad idea to just hear who she feels is a wolf and vote for that person. I might opt for that possibility too...

[Kitanna]

I have mixed feelings about Formendacil's Day 1 post. He points out what many feel/think which is a little troubling, but I feel he has simply tried to get what will most likely be said out there early so we can concentrate on more important. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that, but that's was my first reaction to that post. And in finding Formendacil's slightly troubling I also find the rebuttle posts of Nogrod and Roa troubling. Those two, more than anyone else it appears, continually return to commenting and bringing down Form's Day 1 post. I don't know what I find more disturbing, Form intial post that stated what was quite obvious, or Nogrod and Roa's (Nogrod more than Roa) continual thoughts on how useful Day 1 and how Form is in the wrong about it all. It brings about a loose theory in my mind about how this is staged and perhaps Form is a wolf and one of the others is too and they have this all planned for the village. But it's a loose theory and really more of a feeling and not something I would act on. Yet I will keep the thought tucked away in my mind for later use perhaps.

Each person will be watched directly by two people and will be responsible for two. This will break up everybody watching trying to take in all the info and will break it up in more managable pieces. Also people won't slip through the cracks, so to speak. Now it would be imperative for every innocent to view their targets with an open and objective mind. Far too often we fall for the trap of concluding that somebody is a wolf then proving it with any shred of evidence.

I like Morm's idea, but I'm not so sure about using it today or even on Day 2, but perhaps on Day 3. I worry, though, because depending on who is assigned to who a villager may be quieter than usual (whether they're innocent or not) for fear of being trapped in something. If you understand me. Also who would pick which villagers are going to watch which villagers. It could be a very good idea, but there is so much that could go wrong in it. I don't really think it something we should try for a Day or two.

Argh, I need to go lie down for a bit and I'll be back in an hour or so because I need to cast my vote early today.

EDIT: I want to make one point about Glirdan and his vote for Form. It's an early vote which he has explained, fair enough, but I don't really buy the whole random thing he attached to it. A lot of villagers are/were disagreeing with Form and he had called the most attention to himself thusfar, but I'm not so comfortable with how Glirdan jumped on it.

[Roa_Aoife]

And, I'm back.

Kuru asked for more than inane first day role playing and banter and I think I provided some of that as some serious disussion was given, not much but some.

I'll give you that. As far as I've seen, plans never go anywhere but certainly stir up a lot of dissension.

*sigh* Such a quiet village. I hate quiet villages. It's far too easy for a wolf to hide in. At least no one's started on about what the seer ought to be doing. *notices Nogrod hasn't come back yet...* Of course that may change.

The people who haven't shown yet are Eomer and Kitanna. I'm prone to give them a little lenancy given the way the game started. (They may not realize we started on a day phase as opposed to a night phase. )


So, discussion thus far has revolved around Day 1's and their usefulness, and Morm's plan and it's usefulness.

Well, Morm's plan was useful in that it gave us some direction in discussion. Talking abou Day 1's is about as useful as not talking at all, which it seems many people have opted for. Jenny? Valier? One post so far? Where did you go?

I'll be back in a bit with some more.

EDIT: Cross-posted with las two. Nogrod! You're Back!

[Kuruharan]

Who is making the assignments? You?

Ha-Ha! Obviously, he will. Then, we kill him. No, seriously. If we did it, that is how it would work. We’d let him make the assignments, and then we’d kill him to see if he’s honest.

Actually, might not be an entirely bad idea.

My glorious brain has a few things to chew upon.

Primo-I’m hesitant to kill one of the “useful” people because they are…useful. Unfortunately, I’m certain that at least one of them is a wolf.

Segundo-I’m hesitant to kill one of the “non-useful” people because that is the ultimate shot in the dark and you are much more likely to take out an innocent than a guilty.

Tercio-I’m probably going to vote for somebody useful today. I have a feeling my odds might be better.

But then again on the other hand, I might be able to combine both principles into one…Signore Eomer…

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Roa is reasonable as always, but that's just the scary part in her: she can pull it when she's evil. I always suspect Roa, almost always. I guess there has been one game where I trusted her...

*bats eyes* I love you, too. Was that the game where you were the Mod and knew I was innocent? Or the Game where you were the ranger and I was the seer? Or the game where you were a wolf who figured out that I was another wolf/the EW?

And yes: we have Valier in the camp. It would not be a bad idea to just hear who she feels is a wolf and vote for that person. I might opt for that possibility I will come back in the next hour or three... to respond to people who disagree with me. too...

My experience with Valier says that she needs a Day or two to really get onto the groove of guilty and not guilty. And also, her behavior will get more and more telling as to whether she is guilty or innocent. Be careful- if she's a wolf she can use this power against us. I wouldn't be opposed to testing the theory, later on. Not now.

Moving on, my two big suspects at the moment are Form and Glirdan. Form's rant about Day 1's may have been an attempt to clear the air and move everyone along, but he didn't believe that to be the case. He said in his very first post:

Originally Posted by Form

People will disagree with me....

....I will come back in the next hour or three... to respond to people who disagree with me.

He knew that his statements would be a source of argument and discussion in the village. It could be an innocent rant of someone who's stubborn and fed up, or it could be a clever smoke screen meant to confuse and distract the village. Itend toward the later because of this:

Originally Posted by Form

Well, I being a creature of habit, and habits being what they are... my hatred of Days 1 sort of devoloped into the approved version of Formendacil-in-Werewolf, and, not having anything better to do, I was content to let it be. I am a great respecter of tradition, Werewolf or otherwise, and it would be a shame just to let a tradition die because you all wanted it... and the core reasons for disliking Day 1s remain quite entrenched in my mind.

But if you want to know the REAL reason.... ordo, gifted, or wolf, I like tweaking people's noses. Especially the people like Morm and Roa who are so terribly tweakable...

The first paragraph looks like a rapid back-pedaling from his stance, which had gained him so much attention. I don't like back-pedaling; it's usually a predecessor to dodging and jumping, two very wolfish traits.

And in the sencond. he said himself that it was just to "tweak" people. Here he has stated that he had no purpose in his first post other than to stir up the people who like Day 1's. He openly declared that he was intentionally leading us into the pointless discussion.

Would a wolf intentionally draw so much attention to himself? Possibly, if he is intent on making Day 1's as useless as he claims they are. And now he's already starting to fade out again.


As for Glirdan, it's been said about six times, but his sudden jumping on the Form suspicion seems rather odd, even if he claimed it was random. However, Glirdan does little things like this often when he is innocent. (I've never seen him guilty, so I don't know if he does it then, too.) He has a bad habit being lynched on Day 1 for this sort of thing when he's just an ordo. I want to leave him alone for now.

I have to leave, and I won't be back on by deadline.

++Formendacil

I won't let you lead the village astray. And maybe I'm being nitpicky, but nitpicky is what catches those little details that point out wolves.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I was waiting for the first person to jump on board the case against Glirdan, whose only crime was to set the ball rolling against that pesky curmudgeon Formendacil. It was construed as 'Glirdan is jumping on Form-suspicion'

I don't buy it. I think Mormegil is trying to invent a decent reason for his Day One vote. And let's be honest: Glirdan is about as lynchable as they get. A good idea, but I see it for what it truly is: fangéd skullduggery. String him up!

++MORMEGIL

[Kitanna]

I hate to do this, but I must vote and not much as been said for me to go on since my last post. At least not much to help me make a better choice.

++ Glirdan

His jumping on the Form thing is just setting off alarms in my head. I really hoped it wouldn't come to me doing this, but I can't get one again. So I have to go with who I find the most suspicious.

But I'm still holding on to my earlier Form/Nogrod/Roa theory from earlier. I think two might be wolves trying to lead us all down a path of their choosing. I don't want to act on this yet, which is why I didn't vote for one of those three.

I'm sorry this is all so rushed.

[JennyHallu]

Hello, I'm here, the world is ending, and I'm going to sit and read carefully for a while. Don't eat bugs.


Glirdan, Morm, and Form all seem perfectly normal to me right now. By which I mean Form is always annoying, Glirdan almost always makes a "random" vote day 1, and Morm always takes it personally that people don't like being told what to do. What worries me is the silence from Valier, whom I think we all know is NOT a silent werewolf player. Does she know we started?

[Valier]

Sorry villagers!!! I know I have not been too helpful or talkative today, but as I said in the discuss thread today is a very special day for some of us.... Thank you Noggie dear for having confidence in me and my feelings. I may be back before the vote, but I may not,so today is not a good feeling day for me, but I promise tomorrow I shall get busy catching us some wolves. I will read over what has been posted before I vote and hopefully be able to post a baddie, not baddie list today.

Oh Hi Jenny!! I'm here, but not for long. Sorry 'bout the quietness

[Valier]

Baddies

Kuru
Eomer
Form
Morm
Roa
Mith

Goodies

Kitanna
Jenny
Noggie
Mac
Me
Glirdan

Sorry I don't have time for my thoughts on each. I may be back to change my vote, I may not.


++Formendabras (Form)

His first Day rants are always a good cover for a Wolf.