Misc. Questions

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

#1 Why do I think Beren to be a dummy? If he wanted all three of the Silmarils, he should've just taken the iron crown of Morgoth & back to Menegroth.

#2 the Silmaril says that after Finrod was slain, he was able to walk with Finarfin, his father again. Does this mean his soul was rehoused like Glorfindel?

#3 Did the house of Fingolfin & Finarfin (except Galadriel) swore the oath of Feanor?

#4 The passage below gives me the impression that the children of Finarfin were skilled in magic & enchantment.

By the arts of Felegund their own forms & faces were changed into the likeness of Orcs;

The Silmarillion - Of Beren & Luthien

#5 If Huan had lived during the time of Sauron, would he be able to win against him with his ring on?

This was exactly what Luthien did when she disguised Beren & Huan. So did the children of Finarfin come near in magic?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

#2 the Silmaril says that after Finrod was slain, he was able to walk with Finarfin, his father again. Does this mean his soul was rehoused like Glorfindel?

Yes. This was not a unique occurrence is Glorfindel's case. Many Elves were rehoused in Valinor. The uniqueness is that he returned to Middle-earth. Any Elves who had lived a good life were entitled to be rehoused, and it is clear that Finrod was one of the best and noblest of the Noldor. If Glorfindel was entitled to be rehoused, so was he.

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

#3 Did the house of Fingolfin & Finarfin (except Galadriel) swore the oath of Feanor?

No. Only Feanor and his seven sons swore the Oath. Hence, only they were bound by it. However, ALL the Noldor who went to Middle-Earth (incl. Galadriel) were under the Curse of Mandos, which is a seperate, though related, matter.

As for the other questions, they are not so straightforward, so I'll either hold back on answering, or give myself time to ferment some answers.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Yes. This was not a unique occurrence is Glorfindel's case. Many Elves were rehoused in Valinor. The uniqueness is that he returned to Middle-earth. Any Elves who had lived a good life were entitled to be rehoused, and it is clear that Finrod was one of the best and noblest of the Noldor. If Glorfindel was entitled to be rehoused, so was he.

If an elf is rehoused, he won't be as mighty as he/she was before, correct?

[Lord Melkor]

Hmmm, as far as I know an Elf will not lose power when he is rehoused. After all, death is not something an elf is supposed to experience, though the Marring of Arda and Morgoth evil works are responsible for the death of many Elves and the fading of their hroa. Therefore I believe that Elves will stay as strong as they were when they get rehoused and will not lose power, like Sauron did when he had to fashion a body for himself. Hmmm, come to think of it, it is debatable actually whether the act of creating a body costs any power, though the shape of the hroa and the time it takes to create are definitely correlated with the power someone possesses (Melkor and Sauron losing the ability to take fair form and the time Sauron took to create a new body after the fall of Barad-dur are good examples).

As for your other questions that haven't been answered yet:

#1 Why do I think Beren to be a dummy? If he wanted all three of the Silmarils, he should've just taken the iron crown of Morgoth & back to Menegroth.

Well, Morgoth was a big lad and I reckon that Iron Crown would've been quite a burden. Besides, Fate decreed that Luthien and Beren could only take one Silmaril (which is why the blade broke after Beren attempted to get another one)


#4 The passage below gives me the impression that the children of Finarfin were skilled in magic & enchantment.
Quote:
By the arts of Felegund their own forms & faces were changed into the likeness of Orcs;

The Silmarillion - Of Beren & Luthien

Maybe Finrod was a very good make-up artist?

#5 If Huan had lived during the time of Sauron, would he be able to win against him with his ring on?

Good question that one, really. My own bet would be no, unless Sauron decides to try his hand at another fight with Huan like the first one.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

#1 Why do I think Beren to be a dummy? If he wanted all three of the Silmarils, he should've just taken the iron crown of Morgoth & back to Menegroth.

#2 the Silmaril says that after Finrod was slain, he was able to walk with Finarfin, his father again. Does this mean his soul was rehoused like Glorfindel?

#3 Did the house of Fingolfin & Finarfin (except Galadriel) swore the oath of Feanor?

#4 The passage below gives me the impression that the children of Finarfin were skilled in magic & enchantment.

By the arts of Felegund their own forms & faces were changed into the likeness of Orcs;

The Silmarillion - Of Beren & Luthien

#5 If Huan had lived during the time of Sauron, would he be able to win against him with his ring on?

This was exactly what Luthien did when she disguised Beren & Huan. So did the children of Finarfin come near in magic?

Hopefully other will asnwer my ever growing misc. questions. I've got a new one. Now after the War of Wrath, the xiles were allowed to return not to Valinor but in Avallone (Tol Eressea). What about for the remaining great Eldar? Surely they would not band Galadriel to dwell in Aman (Valimar) to let her be content with an isle (Eressea) in sight of Valinor? After all she was deemed greatest among the Eldar & had the power to intercede for Frodo & Gimli.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

If an elf is rehoused, he won't be as mighty as he/she was before, correct?

Actually, no. Rehousing STRENGTHENS an elf, not weakens him.

In the case of Glorfindel, the reason for his great power in both the regular world and the spirit realm was due not only to being a Noldo of Valinor, but also due to his rehousing.

In the texts dealing with Elven reincarnation, Tolkien says that the reincarnated Elf is even more unlikely to be killed than a never-killed Elf, having a body even better suited to withstand turmoil, and having a greater "spiritual" presence. I believe that he also says that there are few or no known cases of reincarnated Elves being killed.

That said, a reincarnated Elf is the original Elf, in a near-identical, but pretty much perfect, copy of his (going with the male pronoun out of habit) previous self- and contains all the memories and skills that he had before. There is no reason to assume that the reincarnated Elf is any weaker.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Actually, no. Rehousing STRENGTHENS an elf, not weakens him.

In the case of Glorfindel, the reason for his great power in both the regular world and the spirit realm was due not only to being a Noldo of Valinor, but also due to his rehousing.

In the texts dealing with Elven reincarnation, Tolkien says that the reincarnated Elf is even more unlikely to be killed than a never-killed Elf, having a body even better suited to withstand turmoil, and having a greater "spiritual" presence. I believe that he also says that there are few or no known cases of reincarnated Elves being killed.

That said, a reincarnated Elf is the original Elf, in a near-identical, but pretty much perfect, copy of his (going with the male pronoun out of habit) previous self- and contains all the memories and skills that he had before. There is no reason to assume that the reincarnated Elf is any weaker.

The Glorfindel of the 1st age was able to fight with a Balrog (a freakin Maia) but in the 3rd age, not much of that potency is felt. He's lingering in Rivendell. So you're saying that a re-embodied elf is better than the great survivors such as Cirdan & Galadriel? 'Coz from what I get is that even these two have strong spiritual presences.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

The Glorfindel of the 1st age was able to fight with a Balrog (a freakin Maia) but in the 3rd age, not much of that potency is felt. He's lingering in Rivendell. So you're saying that a re-embodied elf is better than the great survivors such as Cirdan & Galadriel? 'Coz from what I get is that even these two have strong spiritual presences.

Okay...

I am only going with what Tolkien wrote...

But remember that Cirdan and Galadriel were VERY important Elves- very potent Elves. Glorfindel, while powerful, is no Cirdan or Galadriel.

Perhaps I ought to have merely said that reincarnating an Elf merely doesn't WEAKEN him, and left it at that. However, the textual evidence left by Tolkien DOES suggest that a reincarnated Elf is stronger than his previous self.

However, if Glorfindel was $25 before his death, multiplying him to $50 doesn't make him worth more than the $60 Cirdan was to begin with, or the $65 Galadriel was...

NOTE: These are random numbers, being used as an example, and are not intended to be any sort of in-depth comparison of the relative powers of the great Eldar.

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

The Glorfindel of the 1st age was able to fight with a Balrog (a freakin Maia) but in the 3rd age, not much of that potency is felt. He's lingering in Rivendell.

Glorfindel is not merely 'lingering' in Rivendell, he was sent back to aid Elrond and the others against Sauron. Wasn't he involved in the war against Angmar, and he was one of the few left who had power enough to withstand the nine ringwraiths, and Gandalf describes him as a very powerful elf-lord to Frodo and during the Council of Elrond. He may not have had the power of Galadriel or the wisdom of Cirdan but there are definite pointers and allusions to the power of Glorfindel.

[Elianna]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

#1 Why do I think Beren to be a dummy? If he wanted all three of the Silmarils, he should've just taken the iron crown of Morgoth & back to Menegroth.

Tolkien addressed this in the text. 1) Angrist broke, and 2) when Angrist broke, a spark landed on Morgoth and he was about to wake up. And add to that that those Silmarilli were probably pretty heavy on the Black-Enemy's head, and he would have noticed if Beren took all that weight off.

The rest of the questions I cannot answer, since I've just finished Silm for my first time.

[daeron]

4 The passage below gives me the impression that the children of Finarfin were skilled in magic & enchantment.

Galadriel tells Sam there is no magic as the hobbits (or we) call it. Its only the arts which are not understood by the lesser folk that makes it seem like magic. May be it was Finrod's skill in disguises which Tolkien was refering to as 'arts'. It makes one wonder though whether there really was magic (as we see it) in Tolkien's works or is it just 'arts' misunderstood.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

The Glorfindel of the 1st age was able to fight with a Balrog (a freakin Maia) but in the 3rd age, not much of that potency is felt. He's lingering in Rivendell. So you're saying that a re-embodied elf is better than the great survivors such as Cirdan & Galadriel? 'Coz from what I get is that even these two have strong spiritual presences..

Originally Posted by Formendacil

But remember that Cirdan and Galadriel were VERY important Elves- very potent Elves. Glorfindel, while powerful, is no Cirdan or Galadriel.

Perhaps I ought to have merely said that reincarnating an Elf merely doesn't WEAKEN him, and left it at that. However, the textual evidence left by Tolkien DOES suggest that a reincarnated Elf is stronger than his previous self.

I am not sure that Glorfindel was any less important or more important than Galadriel or Celeborn. (Edit: I thoughthtat GLorfindel could withstand the nine but I was wrongo: )

On foot even Glorfindel and Aragorn together could not with stand all the Nine at once.

Gandalf spoke highly of him. (But then, Frodo faced the nine too.)

Regarding the fact that Glorfindel lingered in Rivendell-- well, strictly speaking, so did Elrond; and Galadriel and Celeborn 'lingered' in Lorien. Their power was behind-the-scenes, and I would expect Glorfindel's power to be also primarily "behind the scenes".

The bit I do remember about GLorfindel is that he was in both worlds; and Gandalf explained that as follows:

‘What about Rivendell and the Elves? Is Rivendell safe?’

‘Yes, at present, until all else is conquered. The Elves may fear the Dark Lord, and they may fly before him, but never again will they listen to him or serve him. And here in Rivendell there live still some of his chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.’

‘I thought that I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?’

‘Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn. He is an Elf-lord of a house of princes. Indeed there is a power in Rivendell to withstand the might of Mordor, for a while: and elsewhere other powers still dwell. There is power, too, of another kind in the Shire. But all such places will soon become islands under siege, if things go on as they are going.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.’

So the elves of Valinor have power against the invisible as well (they can see them)?
May I ask from what house does Glorfindel hail? He's not one of the house Finwe or Olwe or Ingwe.


I've got new questions:

#1 I've got a new one. Now after the War of Wrath, the xiles were allowed to return not to Valinor but in Avallone (Tol Eressea). What about for the remaining great Eldar? Surely they would not band Galadriel to dwell in Aman (Valimar) to let her be content with an isle (Eressea) in sight of Valinor? After all she was deemed greatest among the Eldar & had the power to intercede for Frodo & Gimli.

#2 Had Gandalf not fallen with the Balrog, what gift would he have received from Galadriel in Lorien?

#3 What race did Dior belong to? An Elf or a mortal?

#4 Will the Doom of Mandos (fading) apply to Thranduil & his subjects?

#5 In your personal opinion, do you think the Elves who remained in Valinor during the turmoils of Morgoth & Sauron in ME became mightier than those who lingered & endured their malice?

# How was Glorfindel able to slay a Balrog (Maia) & Finrod can't even scratch Sauron?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

I am not sure that Glorfindel was any less important or more important than Galadriel or Celeborn. (Edit: I thoughthtat GLorfindel could withstand the nine but I was wrongo: ) Gandalf spoke highly of him. (But then, Frodo faced the nine too.)

Well, I'm not tied to that interpretation myself- I was just arguing with the acceptance of that point of view to show that one's strength is not diminished (in Elven cases) by death, upon reincarnation, but can be, in fact, strengthened.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

#1 I've got a new one. Now after the War of Wrath, the xiles were allowed to return not to Valinor but in Avallone (Tol Eressea). What about for the remaining great Eldar? Surely they would not band Galadriel to dwell in Aman (Valimar) to let her be content with an isle (Eressea) in sight of Valinor? After all she was deemed greatest among the Eldar & had the power to intercede for Frodo & Gimli.

#2 Had Gandalf not fallen with the Balrog, what gift would he have received from Galadriel in Lorien?

#3 What race did Dior belong to? An Elf or a mortal?

#4 Will the Doom of Mandos (fading) apply to Thranduil & his subjects?

#5 In your personal opinion, do you think the Elves who remained in Valinor during the turmoils of Morgoth & Sauron in ME became mightier than those who lingered & endured their malice?

#6 How was Glorfindel able to slay a Balrog (Maia) & Finrod can't even scratch Sauron?

New Questions:

#7 Was Sauron more powerful than the Balrog of Moria? Could he have enslaved it to his allegiance?

#8 If Luthien (w/out Huan's aid) & Sauron was pitted against eachother, who would be the victor?

#9 If the Balrog was unleashed & came to Lothlorien, Would the Galadhrim surivive (along with the power of Galadriel)?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

#7 Was Sauron more powerful than the Balrog of Moria? Could he have enslaved it to his allegiance?

Yes, Sauron was more powerful than the Balrog- indeed, more than all the Balrogs. As it says in the Valaquenta:

Among those of his [Morgoth's] servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aule, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself.

Whether or not Sauron could have enslaved the Balrog to his allegiance, that is a question that cannot be satisfactorily answered. The Balrog, while weaker, is still a mighty Umaia in its own right. Personally, I should say that Sauron- with the Ring- would likely have been able to do so, but that is just my gut feeling.

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

#8 If Luthien (w/out Huan's aid) & Sauron was pitted against eachother, who would be the victor?

#9 If the Balrog was unleashed & came to Lothlorien, Would the Galadhrim surivive (along with the power of Galadriel)?

Since Tolkien never gave us a Power Comparisons Table, it's really impossible to say on either of these questions. Like any Alternative Storyline, it is entirely up to conjecture. In both cases, I'd say it would be a close fight either way.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Formendacil,

I checked Wikipedia for Sauron & here's what they said about him:

but in secret Sauron forged the One Ring in Mount Doom to rule the Elvish rings, investing most of his own power into the Ring as he forged it. By doing so, he became more powerful than his master Morgoth at the end of the First Age, whose fëa ("soul" or "spirit"), while stronger, was dispersed into the matter of Arda. When Sauron put on the One Ring and tried to dominate the Elves, they resisted, and Sauron came upon them in the War of the Elves and Sauron and, had it not been for the intervention of Númenor, might have defeated them

So he became mightier than Morgoth when he wore the One Ring right?

[solarisa]

maybe the crown was too heavy for beren? maybe he was too fascinated by the silmarils, therefore only extracting them? or maybe, no one will know...

hmm...elves were just like humans; how do you get the magical stuff in there(about finarfin??)

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

So he became mightier than Morgoth when he wore the One Ring right?

Morgoth at the end of the First Age, yes.

As I said, I think it likely that Sauron- wearing the Ring- COULD have asserted control over the Balrog, but I don't KNOW that. After all, the Balrogs were under Morgoth's control from the very beginning, and the reason that Morgoth was so weakened by the late First Age was the dissemination of his power throughout the physical matter of Arda. Perhaps some of that power was imbued into the Balrogs- binding them to his will?

Anyway, that's all speculation on my part, and not speculation to which I am greatly attached, either.

[Alcarillo]

Originally Posted by solarisa

hmm...elves were just like humans; how do you get the magical stuff in there(about finarfin??)

I suppose what seemed like an ordinary cosmetics routine to the elves must've seemed like magic to Beren and other mortals. This reminds me of a Star Trek episode, in which a primitive species spots the Enterprise and considers its technology to be magic and ends up worshipping Picard. (wierd analogy, I know) Anyways, substitute Felegund and his make-up skill for Picard and his futuristic technology and the primitive species for Mortals and you can see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

#4 Will the Doom of Mandos (fading) apply to Thranduil & his subjects?

Thranduil and his subjects are Moriquendi, so no.

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

#5 In your personal opinion, do you think the Elves who remained in Valinor during the turmoils of Morgoth & Sauron in ME became mightier than those who lingered & endured their malice?

Interesting question. I think that the Elves in Middle-earth would've stood up better in the face of evil than elves from Valinor, who for so long knew no evil or suffering.

[brim]

I have read a book like that before. It had several different things from the future and they were refered to as magic from the more primitive people's point of veiw. Interesting concept really.

[Thinlómien]

# How was Glorfindel able to slay a Balrog (Maia) & Finrod can't even scratch Sauron?

Because
* Sauron was more powerful than the balrog
* Glorfindel was in better condition in the battle than Finrod, who had laid in a prison for days, when he met his enemy
* Glorfindel got help from Thorondor and he would have lost without the help of the eagle

[Thinlómien]

#5 In your personal opinion, do you think the Elves who remained in Valinor during the turmoils of Morgoth & Sauron in ME became mightier than those who lingered & endured their malice?

Maybe they were mightier in other matters and less mighty on other matters? F.g. they would have more "light of Aman" in them, but they wouldn't be so physically hardened or so good stalkers. I think it may work like evolution; they get better in things they need in their every day life and poorer in things they don't use. And th light of Aman probably fades in the ME elves.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Maybe they were mightier in other matters and less mighty on other matters? F.g. they would have more "light of Aman" in them, but they wouldn't be so physically hardened or so good stalkers. I think it may work like evolution; they get better in things they need in their every day life and poorer in things they don't use. And th light of Aman probably fades in the ME elves.

there was no longer this "light" in Aman. It disappeared when the two Trees perished.

[Gurthang]

Still, Thinlómien has a point there. The Elves in Aman had no worries about attack or betrayal, so they could concentrate on building beautiful wonders or mastering arts and song. On the other hand, the Noldor in Middle-Earth would have spent much more time studying warfare and the use of arms rather than concentrating on making less useful but more spectacular things.

With that in mind, I would say that the Elves of Aman were better at building beauty, singing, art, and understanding of animals/plants. The Elves of Middle-Earth would have had much superior knowledge of building strength, warfare, smithery, and negotiating. I would think that things such as mining, hunting, and writing would have been similar in both places.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Another question:

When Galadriel says "Needless were the deeds of Gandalf. We do not know yet his full purpose," do you think Gandalf knew about Galadriel's secret lust for the ring & intended her to face her test? And what would happen if she failed & took the ring, would not the Valar hinder him from returning to ME?

And this lament of Galadriel (during the departure from Lothlorien) of Valimar being lost to those in the east is quite contradictory when she declares "I will go into the West & remain Galadriel." Could Gandalf have told her that Varda had answred her prayers?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Another question:

When Galadriel says "Needless were [missing words, I think: none of] the deeds of Gandalf. We do not know yet his full purpose," do you think Gandalf knew about Galadriel's secret lust for the ring & intended her to face her test? And what would happen if she failed & took the ring, would not the Valar hinder him from returning to ME?

And this lament of Galadriel (during the departure from Lothlorien) of Valimar being lost to those in the east is quite contradictory when she declares "I will go into the West & remain Galadriel." Could Gandalf have told her that Varda had answred her prayers?

I would attribute it, myself, to a more mundane answer. I would say that Galadriel agreed with Gandalf that Moria was the only way to pass the Mountains. The Redhorn Pass, as was already clear, was impassible. The High Pass by Rivendell would have meant a month or three of delay- perhaps Galadriel's mirror told her that they didn't have that time. Likewise with detouring to Gondor. As for the remaining option, the Gap of Rohan- we all know about the danger of Saruman, but perhaps the danger was greater than we think. Perhaps companies like Ugluk's were being sent northwards towards Moria? If so, that's another thing that Galadriel could have meant.

In any case, in this situation, the simplest answer would seem to be that Galadriel felt that Gandalf was justified in leading them through Moria, and that his death was not wasted, for the Ring still continued towards its defeat. Galadriel strikes me, for some reason, as a person who would approve of dying for a cause.

Hmm... must be the Silmarillion working on me...

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I have another question (s):

#1 How were the Numenorians (who were corrupted by Sauron) able to reach the shores of Aman if the Valar had set the enchanted isles abroad?

#2 From what royal house does Glorfindel belong (& why does he have golden hair)?

#3 Are Tom & Goldberry maiar?

#4 Are Vanyar's greater than the Noldor or are they just Manew & Varda's favorite?

#5 How many Royal houses of Noldor had Golden hair? I know Finarfin's house was golden-haired but what of Fingolfin's & Feanor's?

#6 Did the 3 elvish guardians wear their rings when Isildur still bore it?

#7 Approximately how many years were the Three utilized until their fading?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

I have another question (s):

Goody! I like these...

#1 How were the Numenorians (who were corrupted by Sauron) able to reach the shores of Aman if the Valar had set the enchanted isles abroad?

Presumeably, those were removed after the Valar lifted the Ban against the Noldor, and started accepting them back to Valinor.

#2 From what royal house does Glorfindel belong (& why does he have golden hair)?

Glorfindel isn't royal- at least in so far as we know. Glorfindel was the Lord of the House of the Golden Flower one of the twelve or thirteen "clans" of Gondolin. As such, he was a Noldorin Elf-lord, but not- as far as we know- at all royal.

#3 Are Tom & Goldberry maiar?

Who knows? I don't...

I believe there are several threads that debate the merits of the arguments for and against.

#4 Are Vanyar's greater than the Noldor or are they just Manew & Varda's favorite?

I'd say that they are just the favourites... Tolkien never really says that any sort of elf is "greater" than another- just stronger in certain fields. For example, the Noldor are the greatest of craftsmen, the Teleri are the great sailors...

#5 How many Royal houses of Noldor had Golden hair? I know Finarfin's house was golden-haired but what of Fingolfin's & Feanor's?

As far as I know, the only Noldorin royals with golden hair were Finarfin, his son Finrod, his daughter Galadriel, and Idril daughter of Turgon, who's mother was Elenwe of the Vanyar.

#6 Did the 3 elvish guardians wear their rings when Isildur still bore it?

I don't think Tolkien ever says, but I would imagine it was some time before they started to wear them. Just a guess, though...

#7 Approximately how many years were the Three utilized until their fading?

Obviously, this question is tied to the previous one. However, if we assume that the bearers started wearing them around the time Isildur died, then it would be just over 3000 years.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

^ Hmm... in the narration of FOTR, Cate says "And for 2 1/2 thousand years the ring passed out of all knowledge... the ring brought to gollum unnatural long life & for 500 years it poisoned his mind." so they still had an extra hundred years or two?

new question:

What exactly where those "watchers" (that Sam conquered with the star-glass) of the tower of Cirith Ungol? Are they wizards, orcs, or maia?

[Alcarillo]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

What exactly where those "watchers" (that Sam conquered with the star-glass) of the tower of Cirith Ungol? Are they wizards, orcs, or maia?

They seem as though they are fëar Sauron must've trapped inside those statues. I doubt that they are orcs, as Tolkien ddescribes them as being carved of stone. It is possible that they are lesser Maiar, but I doubt that too.

[Gurthang]

The Watchers could also have been fell spirits trapped inside the stone. Somewhat like Dragons had fell spirits in them, and that was why they could daunt people with their gaze. The Watchers may have had similar characteristics, but could obviously not cast spells like Dragons.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

There seems to be an inconsistency in the story of Lorien. They say that before Galadriel came & ruled there, Amroth built his house in the trees. Does this mean that the mallorns have already been there before Galadriel's arrival, because if I'm not mistaken, they only grew when Galadriel came there & used Nenya.

[Joy]

It could have been any type of tree. There were other besides Mallorn in Lorien.

You have some wonderful questions there Gourthar.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Another question:

What the hell is this Seat of Amon Hen? Why does it have powers & abilities akin to the Palantir? Who built it & endowed it with such powers?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

You can find that answer in The Lord of the Rings without too much trouble.

'Behold Tol Brandir!' said Aragorn, pointing south to the tall peak. 'Upon the left stands Amon Lhaw, and upon the right is Amon Hen, the Hills of Hearing and of Sight. In the days of the great kings there were high seats upon them, and watch was kept there.

The Fellowship of the Ring, p.410

Then later.

He was sitting upon the Seat of Seeing, on Amon Hen, the Hill of the Eye of the Men of Númenor.

The Fellowship of the Ring, p.416

An earlier draft of this passage is more obvious in its meaning:

But also he sat now upon the seat of Sight which the men of Númenor had made.

HoME VII: The Treason of Isengard, p.374

From what Frodo experiences of its powers in The Fellowship of the Ring, I would guess that the seat simply allows one who sits in it to see widely, but probably not in the same way as the Palantíri. I seems as though the seat of Seeing simply makes the world seem smaller rather than allowing one to view distant events in detail or communicate over large distances. There is also a suggestion that the Ring enhances the seat's powers, which could account for the similarity.

The reference to a watch being kept on Amon Lhaw and Amon Hen suggests that on the two hills one sentry would listen and another look for danger to the Númenorean realms in exile, which I would guess is the reason for the properties described in FotR. Don't forget that the Númenoreans, with whom Tolkien associates the two seats, were almost as skilled as the Elves in such work.

[Lalaith]

I believe, although I don't have the texts to hand, that the three rings were made, and presumably used and worn, before the Alliance. The making of the Three seemed to coincide with the unmasking of Sauron by Celebrimbor at Eregion.
As for this:

On foot even Glorfindel and Aragorn together could not with stand all the Nine at once

I think we cannot read too many "power comparisons" in to this comment, between the various elves in LotR - it must be taken in the context of what the reader does and does not know at this point in the narrative.
At the point in the story that Gandalf says this, we have not yet met Galadriel and know very little of Cirdan. Elrond is clearly not going to leave Rivendell and so there is no question of him confronting the Nine on the road.

[Joy]

Also, on the comment of Glorfindel's strenght, I am sure that given the timing of this narative, he wouldn't show his full strenght.

Like Gandalf, being a maiar, had been given restraints concerning the amount of power that he could show forth - maybe Glorfindel had some of these restraints given to him.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I believe, although I don't have the texts to hand, that the three rings were made, and presumably used and worn, before the Alliance. The making of the Three seemed to coincide with the unmasking of Sauron by Celebrimbor at Eregion.

I've always wondered the same thing. It was hundreds of years before the One could be completed & the Three have already been completed. Who bore the Three before Gil-Galad & Galadriel? Or perhaps Celebrimbor hoarded it.

[Legolas]

Who bore the Three before Gil-Galad & Galadriel?

No one.