The Ring bearer

[Folwren]

I’ve not started a serious thread yet, I don’t think, and I’m not quite sure what all I should say and what I shouldn’t on the subject. But I want to discuss Frodo Baggins and his character...

Tolkien gives us a considerable amount of history on Frodo. More than his other hobbits. We know that Sam has a Gaffer he loves to quote and who didn’t like his interest in stories of elves and dragons, we know that Bilbo had a Mom named Beledona Took who he got a lot of his spirit from, and we know a couple things about Merry and Pippin, but not too much. However, we know that Frodo had two parents that died in a horrible boat accident on the Brandywine when he was twelve, after which he went and lived in Brandy Hall with bunches of kids, and then in that time period, or maybe before his parents died, it doesn’t say, he was in the habit of stealing mushrooms from Maggot.....the list could go on and on.

So, considering his history before his fiftieth birthday, and even considering his behavior in the first half of the Fellowship of the Ring, you can get the impression of a rather young acting, merry hobbit who loves and is full of life and can tease and be fun with the rest of them. (Well, read the beginning of Three is Company if you don’t believe me!)

But then look to the end of the trilogy...

‘I tried to save the Shire, Sam, and it has been saved, but not for me...’

The difference is absolutely astounding.

Comments on his changing, on his previous character or post character, or anything about him is welcome. My favorite hobbit is not Frodo, it being Sam, but I’ve taken quite an interest in him and anyone else’s insights would be welcome.

[Turgon Philip Noldor]

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Obviously the topic is how Frodo changed from when he was in the Shire (the beginning of Fellowship) to when he went back to the Shire (the end of Return). Well since you didn't ask any specific questions, I'll just give you some feed-back. I believe most of this change was due to the toil and hardship that Frodo went through on his journy. He went through so much pain that once he got back to the Shire, he still felt that pain. That is why he left. Or most of the resson.

[Folwren]

*sigh* I'm afraid there isn't much a question, to be sure, but I've found this a very interesting topic to consider. I'm just bringing to the surface what I've thought about Frodo and his whole history, character, and the the dramatic change that the quest brought to him, and I'm hoping other people will do the same...but if everyone thinks that it's a pointless thread, I can probably remove it, or get it removed.

[mark12_30]

Before you remove it (I don't see that it's a bad thread) why don't we at least use it as a place to link to previous discussions about the changes in Frodo? There is certainly plenty to consider. I'll do a bit of searching and find a thread or two.

[mark12_30]

How Much Frodo grew...

frodo was both the weakest and strongest person in the Trilogy?

Frodo or the Ring

Frodo at Sammath Naur

What caused Frodo to finally give in to the power of the Ring and claim it?

Folwren, you can either add to this thread regarding the other threads, or, add to the other threads. Since you started this thread that makes it up to you. Enjoy.

[Galadriel55]

I think that Frodo was never exactly an ordinary happy-go-lucky hobbit. Maybe he was in his childhood, but we don't know too much about him in that stage of his life as a character.

Even before he got the Ring, he was more thoughful and perhaps more "deep"* than other hobbits. He learned Elvish from Bilbo. However, the change in him is still enourmous: before the story of the Ring he still felt himself a part of the Shire, and the Shire - a part of him.

I'd say that Frodo changed more than Bilbo did. Although he left partially because Bilbo left as well (so Bilbo had the bigger bulk here), the end result was different. Bilbo as learned in Elvish lore, but he was still a fully-fledged hobbit inside. Frodo was less learned, but he was less of a hobbit inside by the end of the Trilogy. In a way Bilbo is the Elvish hobbit, and Frodo is the hobbitish Elf.


*By that I don't mean to say that other hobbit characters are shallow; he was just less down-to-earth/simple.

[Galadriel]

Interesting. I saw a change in the burden he carried, but not much of a change in his nature. Right from the start he was much more sober than his friends, and had a tendency to be rather pessimistic and gloomy. If anything, he seemed more tired and wounded by the end of the book (wonder how that happened? ), and it really broke my heart in the last chapter when he left, but frankly, I can't help thinking that if someone like Sam or Pippin (or even Bilbo) had carried the Ring, he would not have been quite that scarred. They just seemed to radiate that kind of energy. Frodo had strength, yes, but I feel it was diminished by his pessimism.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Frodo had strength, yes, but I feel it was diminished by his pessimism.

Or realism.

Merry and Pippin have some kind of barrier between their ideal inner Shire-world and the world that they got to know. I don't think Frodo ever had that ideal (almost dream-like?) inner world - he was always too, ah, realistic? Elvish? wise? for a hobbit.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Or realism.

Merry and Pippin have some kind of barrier between their ideal inner Shire-world and the world that they got to know. I don't think Frodo ever had that ideal (almost dream-like?) inner world - he was always too, ah, realistic? Elvish? wise? for a hobbit.

Not sure I agree. If that were the case, Bilbo would have faded a long time ago So would Sam, since he was constantly around the Ring, if not wearing it around his neck.

PS – This isn't really related to the thread, but Galadriel55, I am SO sorry for not replying to that pm you sent me ages ago! I never saw it till a few days back :/

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Not sure I agree. If that were the case, Bilbo would have faded a long time ago So would Sam, since he was constantly around the Ring, if not wearing it around his neck.

Not Bilbo - he's a true hobbit and carries his Shire with him all the time. And Sam is too loyal to Frodo.

PS – This isn't really related to the thread, but Galadriel55, I am SO sorry for not replying to that pm you sent me ages ago! I never saw it till a few days back :/

PM? What PM? ....wait..... Oh yeah! That one that I sent last fall! It's kinda meaningless now...

By the way, nice avatar!

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Not Bilbo - he's a true hobbit and carries his Shire with him all the time. And Sam is too loyal to Frodo.

PM? What PM? ....wait..... Oh yeah! That one that I sent last fall! It's kinda meaningless now...

By the way, nice avatar!

Haha! True that! The amount of times he thinks of his home in TH is enough to fill up a page Still, though, I don't think it's only the Shire that keeps those Hobbits going - maybe it's just their natural tendency to be frivolous, and therefore relentlessly optimistic?

And thanks!

[Boromir88]

Oh stop the nonsense Foley, those are good observations made to start a good thread. And on a personal note, it feels good to put my brain back to use for more than just sporty and werewolfy stuff. So, thank you.

Frodo is clearly changed, and we could list a whole 2 pages worth of reasons, easily, from all the physical and emotional pain he endured throughout the quest, but it goes beyond that. Frodo may not have a giddy-happy personality at the beginning, but he does love the Shire, there's no doubt.

"He would come with me, of course, if I asked him. In fact he offered to once, just before the party. But he does not really want to, yet. I want to see the wild country again before I die, and the Mountains, but he is still in love with the Shire, with woods and fields and little rivers."~A Long-Expected Party

It's Bilbo stating this, true, but I see no reason to think he's not spot on about Frodo (at this time immediately after Bilbo's party) is still in love with The Shire.

Then, fastforward to Frodo post-ring destruction and my impression is much like yours, it's a major change. The best way I can describe it, is Frodo is a zombie. Think about it, I'm sure we've all seen people who are physically present, but mentally checked out. And that's Frodo, he's lifeless. So why?

I think it's the destruction of the Ring. To us, Sam, an everyone else in the story, it would seem weird. It's a moment of triumph and defeat against the biggest evil of the age. Woo! Right? Not Frodo, he's literally got nothing left. One of the most chilling parts of the book is right before Frodo gets inside Mount Doom, he says this to Sam:

"Now, I am afraid not, Sam," said Frodo, "At least, I know that such things happened, but I cannot see them. No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or star are left to me. I am naked in the dark, Sam, and there is no veil between me and the wheel of fire. I begin to see it even with my waking eyes and all else fades."~Mount Doom

How horrifying would that be? The Ring has sapped all the life and beauty out of Frodo. He's got nothing left, except him and the Ring. Destroy the Ring, then what do you have left?