Maps in Sil andLOTR

[daeron]

This thread is probably already present somewhere but I would like to know, if Beleriand was to NW of third age ME, how is Ered Luin to the east of Beleriand? Did Tolkien consider a spherical world as oppposed to the flat one? If Angbad was in the north, it being in the Mts of Eriador, doesn't that go higher. Anfauglith is also mentoned to the north

Also. what parts of ME were damaged in the War of Wrath and which during the fall of Numenor? Sil says that only northern regions were ruined in the War of Wrath.

[Mithalwen]

Beliriand was North West - the Ered Luin. Lindon the area to the west of the Ered Luin, realm of Gil Galad in the second age, was the bit of Beliriand that remained after the rest was flooded and broken in the War of Wrath. If you compare the SIlmarillion and Lotr maps you will be able to pick up the mountains curve and see the mountain that is the island Himling in the Third Age. I think only Beleriand was damaged.

I think that the world was originally flat but after the attempt to invade the Undying Lands by Ar Pharazon the world was made round. The Undying lands were removed from the circles of the world only to be reached via the "straight road"
by those who had the permission of the valar .... when they sailed instead of the ship following the curve of the earth it would keep going straight and so reach Valinor .. but I am sure that someone else can explain this better!!! The space on the round world vacated by ~Valinor was filled by the "New Lands" ie The New World - the Americas.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I think that the world was originally flat but after the attempt to invade the Undying Lands by Ar Pharazon the world was made round. The Undying lands were removed from the circles of the world only to be reached via the "straight road"
by those who had the permission of the valar .... when they sailed instead of the ship following the curve of the earth it would keep going straight and so reach Valinor .. but I am sure that someone else can explain this better!!!

Not claiming to be that 'someone'.

The thing that always interested me about the continued existence of the Straight Road is the implication that somehow, for the Elves, or chosen men like Eriol, the Flat earth seems to co-exist alongside the Round earth - like two two tv channels, & that it was possible to 'tune' from one to the other. It seems that, rather than the whole of the world changing from flat to round, two worlds replaced the single existing world. Men were shuffled off into the round world while Elves found themselves able to exist in both worlds, & had a choice of which one they wished to live in. Having said that, I suspect that the Elves were more attuned to the flat earth 'dimension' & the pull of that world would have grown on them more & more as time went on & the round world was increasingly changed by men & so moved further & further away from its 'archetype'. Maybe this accounts for the physical 'fading' of the Elves - its not so much that they themselves 'fade' but that as the worlds move apart its more & more difficult for men to see the inhabitants of the other world.

Tolkien does state in a number of places that the High Elves live in both worlds at the same time - though how long they retain this ability is another question. Yet another question is whether the new round world was given a different 'history'. Perhaps that would have saved Tolkien a lot of agonising in his later years over how to fit the accounts of the early years of Arda in with our world's history. The creation story in Ainulindale & the account of the early first age are the history of the flat earth, the history we have in the 'round world we live in is the new one which came into being with the new world created at the 'split'.

Or maybe that would have required even more work on Tolkien's part to make it work.