Eöl

[Kuruharan]

This thread got me thinking about Eöl. Why is he considered to be such a disreputable character? Melian refers to his “dark heart” with regard to Anglachel (Gurthang). Now, admittedly his son Maeglin was a disreputable character, and undoubtedly picked up some propensities from his father. But, Maeglin had his own issues.

Looking at Eöl’s character and experiences he seems to have been more of a loner than being particularly bad.

His nickname “Dark Elf” came from the fact that he liked the twilight and night and lived in a dark wood. This is not particularly shocking because originally everything was night as there was no sun. His dislike of the Noldor was understandable. He blamed them for the return of Morgoth, for taking Teleri lands in Beleriand, and for the Kinslaying. On the whole, he seemed a bit nostalgic for the good old days of the early First Age. He was also friends with the Dwarves (oh, the horror!) When his wife and son decamped on him, I would not say that he behaved in a particularly irrational manner by going after them.

It is true he did not behave himself in a particularly noble manner when he was brought before Turgon. However, how would you feel if somebody you did not like in the least was telling you that you had to stay with them for as long as their kingdom endured and could not go home again?

I don’t think Eöl was bad. I think he was just a bit of an anarchistic hermit, but I’m curious as to other opinions.

[the phantom]

He was pretty silly to blame the Noldor for the return of Morgoth. That makes no sense.

Morgoth's fortress was already there waiting for him and he obviously came back to it before the Noldor arrived. The Noldor merely chased after him (and if they wouldn't have then Eol would've found himself on the end of an orc spear before too long).

How could he think the Noldor somehow caused M's return? Did he think they approached him in Valinor and said "Hey, Morgy, let's bust out of this joint and go to Beleriand and then have a big war with each other" or something like that?

Plus, he called the Noldor "invaders and usurpers of our homes". The Noldor plopped down in regions where there weren't many people, so there weren't even any homes to invade even if they wanted to. I don't recall any tale of the Noldor attempting to move into a populated area and forcing the inhabitants to leave.

Eol was a silly, silly elf.

[Lalwendë]

This story troubles me too. I often wonder why he deserved to be put to death in such a manner, it seems wholly inappropriate to me. Why was he called a 'dark elf'? Does it simply refer to his status as one who did not see the light of the Valar, or does it imply more?

The story is very mysterious. Did he 'bewitch' his wife into staying with him, or did she stay because she wished to? I get the feeling that it was the latter, and that she later changed her mind in some way. She must have known that to return to her home with her son would mean that her son would have to remain there, and possibly Eol knew this too. To me, he was possibly an Elf who had no alliances apart from those to his loved ones, and he was driven half-mad when his son and wife left. It's one of those 'grey' areas...

[A_Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Did he 'bewitch' his wife into staying with him, or did she stay because she wished to? I get the feeling that it was the latter, and that she later changed her mind in some way.

Fact is, that he bewitched her (or the trees), while she was in "his" wood, so she couldn't find out again. It is proximate, that he could Aredhel hinder to leave the wood. I think that this is the reason why she stayed there. The fact, that she could escape in a very easy way, make me thinking, that (granted that my suggestion above is right) she must have conviced him, that she really has loved him, that he put the spell away.
Or it is just as Lalwendë said, she has loved him and after some time, her feelings went in the other direction.
His friendship with the Dwarves are IMHO not a cause, why he was called "Dark Elf". The enemyship has begun while the sacking of Doriath by the Dwarves.
IMHO it was not normal that an Elf loves the dark woods and avoids the sun, so the other Elves put the "title" "Dark Elf" on him.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

A loner and a sad story. Not too sure about his attitudes toward women though. (She-elfs, whatever...)

He wasn't bad, but not especially likeable either. And don't use the 'loner' image as an excuse. Remember Tom Bombadil. (Actually, we should always remember Tom Bombadil, it just so happens that he can be contrasted here.)

[Kuruharan]

How could he think the Noldor somehow caused M's return?

He might not have been accurately informed of the reasons why the Noldor returned. Although, on the other hand, he knew about the Kinslaying.

I often wonder why he deserved to be put to death in such a manner

I think Turgon did not really like him to begin with. When Aredhel died, that probably pushed him over the edge, which led Eol to being pushed over the edge.

Actually, we should always remember Tom Bombadil, it just so happens that he can be contrasted here.

This is a good counterpoint. One does not necessarily have to be grumpy to be a loner.

[the phantom]

I often wonder why he deserved to be put to death in such a manner, it seems wholly inappropriate to me.

I don't know about that. I think that's usually what happens when you answer a polite greeting from a King disrespectfully and then kill his sister.

[Rilwen Gamgee]

And don't use the 'loner' image as an excuse. Remember Tom Bombadil.

Well, Tom wasn't exactly a "loner", but I see what you're getting at.

I agree, Eöl was not necessarily bad, just... "ill-moraled". The possible reason why most people associate him with evil is because he lusted after Aredhel. No approaching her politely with flowers or kind words, just reeling her in against her will. He was also possessive: forcing her to "shun the sunlight" and forget her family.

But, really, with all that aside, he treated her relatively well...

[Kuruharan]

I think that's usually what happens when you answer a polite greeting from a King disrespectfully and then kill his sister.

Well, that second one was sort of an accident, but your point is taken.

Probably the act that weighs most heavily against Eöl is his attempted killing of Maeglin. (Although, was this really a bad thing?)

Eöl likely felt betrayed and humiliated by what had happened. There was an open rift between Maeglin and Eöl before they split, but the text makes no mention of Aredhel ever mentioning her thoughts on the matter to Eöl. (Not that he would have agreed with her considering his orders not to consort with the Noldor, but still…) The text also makes no mention of Eöl’s reaction when he learned Aredhel was dead. (I suppose it is remotely possible he was not told, since she did not die until after Eöl was in the clink.) However, that Aredhel begged Turgon for mercy even after Eöl had tried to kill her son indicates that she still loved him to some extent.

As Lalwendë indicated, Eöl’s actions there were of someone driven to desperation by the loss of everything he held dear.

I am strongly reminded of Denethor.

[Evisse the Blue]

I think that with Eöl (and a few other few characters) Tolkien came close to creating a 'grey' character. That is - he's not wholly evil, nor can I entirely excuse his behaviour. He obviously behaves irrationally in his hatred for the Noldor and a couple of other instances - but I don't think he is the kind of person that does evil for the sake of it - that is, he does not act evilly, he reacts 'evilly' or better said, 'rashly', turning this story into a tragedy... And in a tragedy everyone more or less is at fault and everyone has to suffer.

Not only Eöl is to blame for what happens in this story. Aredhel shouldn't have left her brother when he begged her not to, Turgon should have tried to win Eöl over and prove his kindness instead of saying "I will not debate with you', and Eöl himself should have been less impulsive, not to mention Maeglin, who was the truly disturbed one (a true First Age sociopath )... But that's not something that could have been done, because these acts define the characters themselves: Aredhel left because she was independent and carefree, Turgon was really proud and scared of being unable to preserve his stronghold and position...and Eöl, as Kuruharan said was driven to it by the loss of everything he ever had (good comparison with Denethor, another 'grey' character.)

[Lalwendë]

Looking at the chapter, it is clear it is a tale with a moral, and intended to demonstrate how easily tragedy can result from sins. In the figures of Eol and Turgon we have two males who are intensely proud, one of his independence as someone who has lived in that land all his life, and one proud of his heritage and the empire he has created in this land which he sees he must ’save’. In Maeglin we see someone who is desirous of renown, power and Idril; and in Aredhel, someone who appears to want her own freedom, but does not entirely know her own mind. Power, corruption and lies? Or more secrets and lies?

Firstly, Aredhel clearly was of an independent, enquiring mind, as it appears it was a struggle for her to break free of the bonds of her brother. His concern is that Gondolin is not discovered by way of ‘loose tongues’, and she is only concerned with wanting to see what lies beyond the walls. She defiantly says to Turgon:

“I am your sister and not your servant, and beyond your bounds I will go as seems good to me”

To his credit, Turgon allows her to go, but she then ends up with Eol, another male who does not wish her to wander. Yet that is not the whole tale seemingly. It is that he does not want her to mix with the Noldor, who he dislikes as ‘incomers’. Of the nature of the relationship between Eol and Aredhel the text says:

It is not said that Aredhel was wholly unwilling, nor that her life in Nan Elmoth was hateful to her for many years. For though at Eol’s command she must shun the sunlight, they wandered far together under the stars or by the light of the sickle moon;

This does not to me appear that she was forced into marriage, nor that she was unhappy, although she later became that way. Why? I think it was due to the influence of her son, and also to the loneliness she felt when they were away from her; possibly also due to not knowing her own mind all that well. Aredhel clearly went from one claustrophobic life to another, and she was clearly unsuited to this kind of life with her urges to explore.

Eol says to Turgon of Aredhel:

If in Aredhel your sister you have some claim, then let her remain; let the bird go back to the cage, where soon she will sicken again, as she sickened before.

Eol seemingly did little wrong in taking her as his wife. She was wandering alone, in his woodland, and he merely set an enchantment making it difficult for her to leave the wood; it does not say that he charmed her into the actual marriage so we must presume she was willing. This is very Little Red Riding Hood - the solitary maiden in the forest and the ’dark’ male seducing her.

As to what Eol did wrong in pursuing Aredhel and Maeglin to Gondolin, there is little that is wrong. He was away and came home to find his wife and child gone and so followed them, along the way having his pride hurt and provoked by Curufin:

Unless indeed you yourself have been deceived

This mocking would have cut Eol’s pride to the quick, especially coming from one of the Noldor he disliked so much. In the confrontation with Turgon, I see a power struggle. Eol is told he cannot leave Gondolin, which would have hurt a man who was proud, and one who loved his own world he had built. The confrontation is loaded with power struggles, between two proud men, one high born and one solitary and independent. Inevitably it ends with violence when Eol, probably by then utterly frustrated in the face of this power, hurls the javelin at his son, seeing that he is about to be ‘claimed’ by Turgon, who he sees as representative of the power which has annexed part of his own land.

I think part of the reason that Eol is put to death is due to Turgon’s own hurt pride; he must make ‘show’ of punishing the interloper, the one who has caused the death of his sister, albeit inadvertently. I do not think this was right applying my own morals to the tale, but it was inevitable, as were the resulting actions of Maeglin.

[Kuruharan]

You might be interested in this thread, which discusses Aredhel at some length.

I was initially skeptical of the viewpoint that Eol only married Aredhel primarily because of his lust. However, after further review, I've changed my mind. The way that he tried to control her indicates that to some extent he viewed her, and Maeglin as well, as possessions rather than as people. I think that if Eol had been more concerned about her as a person he would have discussed with her rather than decreed to her.

However, this type of thing is no uncommon problem between people.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That's right Kuru, this tale is truly applicable in our world.

[Lalwendë]

I often think of Turgon and Eol as being like two immovable political forces - they remind me of the aboriginal inhabitant of a country versus the more powerful settlers; we see Eol with his mysterious dreamlike powers, and Turgon with his political and military power. And I also think of Mike Leigh films with the whole sorry tale of power in family relationships.

I think that if Eol had been more concerned about her as a person he would have discussed with her rather than decreed to her.

Very true, and there lies the difference between Eol and Turgon, although once Turgon had her back, he wasn't going to allow her to go again - all for the protection of his territory.

[Kuruharan]

Well, in fairness to Turgon, protecting his territory meant more than defending the piece of ground. It also meant protecting the lives of his people, for whom he bore responsibility.

Seeing at it from his perspective, look at all the trouble letting her go caused. In fact, it ultimately did cause the fall of Gondolin.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Although this whole Eol/Maeglin business really only speeded it up. Morgoth was growing in strength all the time.

[the phantom]

Seeing at it from his perspective, look at all the trouble letting her go caused. In fact, it ultimately did cause the fall of Gondolin.

Yes. Everyone who thinks Turgon's enforcement of law was too tough would do well to remember that it was his lack of strict enforcement in his sister's case that brought Gondolin to ruin.

[*Varda*]

Eol seemingly did little wrong in taking her as his wife. She was wandering alone, in his woodland, and he merely set an enchantment making it difficult for her to leave the wood; it does not say that he charmed her into the actual marriage so we must presume she was willing.

Fair enough, she wandered into his woods. That doesn't mean she was willing to marry someone she'd never met.

To me, making it near impossible for her to leave again is hardly a little thing to do - I don't think it makes him evil, but he was setting up the situation to best suit him. It didn't seem to be Aredhel's choice, although she seemed to be happy enough with her life thereafter.

It is not said that Aredhel was wholly unwilling

She may not have been completely against it, but 'wholly unwilling' doesn't make her sound very certain of it either.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Like, I was attacked by a Warg, but it wasn't the worst thing that could have happened...

The style of the sentence definitely suggests that it wasn't what Aredhel wanted.

[the phantom]

definitely suggests that it wasn't what Aredhel wanted

I'm not sure I agree with that. For one thing, Aredhel seems like the type that does what she wants, so I doubt she'd marry Eol if she didn't want to.

And when she told her son stories about the Noldor-

In the telling of these tales there was awakened in Aredhel a desire to see her own kin again...

Notice that it "awakened" the desire, meaning that the desire had been asleep previously. Until that time she did not want to leave. For a while she was content to wander with Eol "far together under the stars or by the light of the sickle moon". I don't think Tolkien threw in that pleasant sentence just for the fun of it, and the way he used the word "together" also makes me think the situation was to Aredhel's liking.

I think that when she married Eol, she wanted to, but then later grew weary of the life she had chosen.

Just like in Gondolin.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think she was a 'fine, whatever' type. She wandered into this maze from which she could not get out, met this strange guy and just up and married him. Live for the moment and all that. Her indecision (especially compared with other characters) argues in support of this.

[Kuruharan]

Flighty is a good word to describe Aredhel. Not a good type of person for a somber and restrained individual like Eol to marry.

[Lalwendë]

I think that if Aredhel was determined enough to defy Turgon and demand that she be allowed to leave, then she would be quite capable of denying Eol, if she had wanted to. She may well have been flighty as Eol likens her to a caged bird and I get the impression that she did not truly 'know herself'. In the terms of the story she may not have been right for Eol, but he must have seen some kind of spirit within her that attracted him - I think where it went wrong was when Eol started to leave her alone and her mind turned to thoughts of her former life. But to see somebody and quickly end up together with them is not unusual, certainly not in terms of Tolkien, and not in terms of the real world.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Certainly not unusual, but often not wise.