Where on Middle earth am I?

[Hookbill the Goomba]

First question;

Right, this has been annoying me for some time now. WHERE IS BELERIAND? I ask this because I have heard two different things about it. Firstly in The Atlas of Middle earth (which I purchased recently), it says that Beleriand was destroyed in some way. That would seem to tie in to what is said in HoME X (or 10 for all you non-Roman people) as to the change from a flat world to a round world and the reshaping of Middle earth.
However, in other books such as "Characters form Tolkien" Beleriand is shown to be slightly to the north of the area of Middle earth involved in LoTR. (If you have no idea of what i am on about, go home... or look here )

Also I have been told that in other HoME books that I have not got, it says that this is what is right. Does anyone have the answer? Or is this going to cause too many arguments and deaths. (Technically this is the barrow downs and we are all supposed to be dead and well...)

Second question;
There is no second question.
i was going to put one, but i forgot what it was... You think of one...

[Novnarwen]

WHERE IS BELERIAND?

There are, I think, many threads concerning this topic, and concerning what happened to Beleriand. Here are two: Where is . . .?

and .. .

Sinking Beleriand .

Reading the Silmarillion would give answers to your questions.

You could also check out this, which is a simple and short explanation concerning Beleriand: Where in Middle-earth was Beleriand.

Nova

[drigel]

that is a nicely drawn composite map though. A decent interpretation although i see a couple of minor errors. I could see how that could be confusing though

[davem]

There's a nice interactive map of Beleriand here:
http://users.cybercity.dk/%7Ebkb1782/tolkien/

(Listed as 'Details of Beleriand' - click on the left hand buttons, the links on the main page don't work)

[Gil-Galad]

Basically, where Lindon is, yo usee those mountains around it! those are teh blue mountains!where mithlond is that is one of the rivers of Ossiraind, so Beleriand was west of Middle Earth

[The Perky Ent]

There's even some remains of Beleriand, apart from Lindon. Tol Fuin, Himling, and Tol Morwen are all mountains of Beleriand, that after the sinking became Islands. Much like how Meneltarma was with Numenor. And if you're deadly curious, go out and buy The Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Wynn Fonstad. It's the best collection of Middle Earth maps there is. It even gives info about each place!

[InklingElf]

There seems to be no need for you to read the Silm anymore - considering all the helpful posts here (although it would be better if you did esp. for historical background.):

On a map it would appear on the northwest continent of Middle Earth. These are the surrounding locations: Falas,Doriath,Thargelion,Ossiriand,and Taur-im-Dauriath. There are many mountain chains around the area.

Second question: are you satisfied yet?

[Gurthang]

The Perky Ent is right. I also posed this question and got much the same answer. The whole of Beleriand sunk beneath the sea, but a few mountain chains and the area now known as Lindon are still above sea level. I know of a link that shows a pretty good draw up of it. Try this .

The brown line is the coast of Beleriand, and the puke green one shows the coast after the breaking.

Hope that helps.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

TRIVIA WARNING!

"a few mountain chains and the area now known as Lindon are still above sea level."
------------------------------------------

But what island, part of Beleriand, stayed above drowned Beleriand?

[Gelmir]

Then why did the rest go, and Lindon stay?

[Gil-Galad]

It was mainly the Sindar that stayed, cause that was there home, but some noldor stayed cause they liked it i guess, or felt they couldn't be forgiven back home...

[Findegil]

It was poperbly meant why some lands were drwoned and some not. Well, poperbly they were higher than the lowlands that were drowned in the sea.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Gil-Galad]

beleriand was the only place really scarred by Melkors evil, Middle Earth he did not venture

[The Perky Ent]

Well, he kinda did. It the beginning, with the two lamps, and the valar living on an island, everything else was middle earth, and he was there. But that really doesn't count. Never mind....

[Gil-Galad]

Funny thing about Almaren, i looked on a map and it said it was in Harad, so it ogt me thinking that the Haradrim have tooken a place of gods as there own kingdom...wowza

[The Perky Ent]

Wow! This deserves further research! To the library Batman!

[Gurthang]

Holy Smokes, Batman.

Okay, stop posting just to post posts.

You already have an enormous amount of posts, don't get greedy.


Anyway. What were we talking about?

Beleriand was the crowning glory of the world(next to Valinor). It was the most beautiful and rich land of all the earth. The elves thrived there for three ages. When men came, it was already occupied, so the Valar gave them Numenor. Of course they got greedy, and their lovely paradise was destroyed. They had become masters of the seas, and had started many havens along the coasts of Beleriand. So those were taken out, too. As was much of Beleriand. The only part to survive were the high mountains and the foothills of Ered Luin(Lindon).

[Gil-Galad]

Yes, but it did get spilt open by one of the Rivers of Ossiriand

[drigel]

Morgoth did influence ME east of Beleriand. The Misty Mountains were wrought by him to hinder or bar the eastward migration of the elves. I dont think Beleriand in itself was "better" than the rest of ME. What was special about it was the fact that it was the stage in which the drama of the Silm was played out.

IMO, the geological effect to Beleriand was a random effect of the aftermath of the Valar coming in and doing some business with Morgoth. One could argue possibly that the islands were meant to remain. I think it was the remoteness of Ossiriand to Angband that spared at least some of it. my 2 cents for what its worth...

[Hookbill the Goomba]

my 2 cents for what its worth

Well, It would be worth about 2 cents or 1.09651 pence here in Blighty.

I think that it’s possible that the first map was correct. After reading the first half of Silm today I realised that often the misty mountains, the anduin, and Kazad-Dum are mentioned. That would suggest to me that both the area of Middle Earth known in LotR and Belriand did co exist at one point. The ruin of Beleriand and the re shaping of the world from flat to spherical would may be hade rid the world of that area only. Or maybe I am wrong.

[drigel]

Blighty sounds like a charming town! One day i may have to visit there

It just sounds like to me that the thinking on this thread is leaning towards the idea that Beleriand was intentionally ruined. I would argue that it wasnt "meant" to be destroyed, it merely was the unfortunate result of being the part of ME that was closest to the source of the catastrophe. IMO, an unforeseen event. Or mabye not - thats a movie I would like to see: Huge chunks of Angband hurled across a continent, landing with a force great enough to rip entire regions apart. A terrible enough cataclysm that crushed the roots of ME to the point that the sea swallows it. So.... :

The question in my mind is: Would the Vala do anything different if they knew the consequences? Or was the cleansing of Angband a high enough end to justify the means?

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Blighty sounds like a charming town! One day i may have to visit there.

Blighty is of course a slang term, used by British fighters in the first and second world war meaning Britain. I use it as Tolkien himself used it; it’s a mark of respect.

It does say somewhere in silm that Beleriand was on a time the most beautiful part of Middle Earth until it got kind of ruined by Morgoth. So perhaps it was destroyed as there would never be a land to its like. Much in the same way as Feanor said he would never make the likes of the silmarills again and the Teleri said of their boats the same.

[drigel]

hook

i was being facetious but thanks for your kindly patience anyways! I dont have the books readily available, but I will take your word on the reference to Beleriand being the most beautifull part of ME. Although my angle on that would still be that it was not just the geology, but its inhabitants and their creations / caretaking that made it so.

That does touch upon a theme that is hit on a lot by the Author, which is "paradise lost" , "lost road" etc. Sigh, those poor elves, always losing that battle to retain and protect what is, always ultimately loosing to what is to be....