Riddles in the Downs

[Galadriel55]

Ok, I can't make this work out properly, so I'll spit it out. Is == supposed to refer to the "married" line on family trees? So someone was married to "2 down"?

Is it one of Galadriel's family? Celeborn or Celebrian? Neither one fits the math perfectly but they are the closest I got.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ok, I can't make this work out properly, so I'll spit it out. Is == supposed to refer to the "married" line on family trees? So someone was married to "2 down"?

Is it one of Galadriel's family? Celeborn or Celebrian? Neither one fits the math perfectly but they are the closest I got.

And there it is!

Idril
1 up = Turgon
1 across = his cousin, Galadriel
1 down = Celebrian
==, ie married to
2 down from Idril = Elrond son of Earendil son of Idril

So the answers are Idril and Celebrian.

(Originally I remembered them as being a simpler variety of cousin; in hindsight going 3 up, 3 down, via Finwe.)

Over to you!

hS

[Galadriel55]

Yay!

As this answer was a joint effort and I don't have a riddle ready, Urwen, would you like to take the turn?

[Urwen]

Sure.


Once he and I were happy
But duty called him and I was left behind
Ages passed and still I wait
I wait with my dearest ones
At that place
Till our time comes
Who are they *
And who am I?

*(Note: 'they' includes 'he')

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Sure.

Once he and I were happy
But duty called him and I was left behind
Ages passed and still I wait
I wait with my dearest ones
At that place
Till our time comes
Who are they *
And who am I?

*(Note: 'they' includes 'he')

Could you be Nerdanel, he Feanor, and they his sons? Nerdanel is waiting in the place Feanor left her, with her remaining family and possibly at least one son; and Feanor will not come back for many ages according to... Mandos, I think, but it might just be the narrative.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope. Not who I had in mind. The riddle is a bit tricky.

[Urwen]

Need a hint?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Need a hint?

Yes, I do. Some thoughts occur - eg Rosie like Nerdanel saw her boyfriend abandon her to a long quest, but not ttuly ages and other elements don't fit. Then sometimes I think this is an inanimate thing speaking, but again no good candidates to matchh the whole riddle.

[Urwen]

Hint: The speaker is dead, and they and their 'dearest' ones (or at least some of them) wait in the same place for the world to end.

[Galadriel55]

... Morwen? Speaking to Hurin, presumably? Buried beside Turin, and with Nienor's memorial stone?

[Urwen]

Ye.

[Galadriel55]

Yay!

In spirit of reviving ancient things and waking ancient wights, here is a Legate-style riddle. Please explain as much as you can when you answer.

To some, I am but fairy tale,
The subject of your jest.
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest.

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name.
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim.

Relic old from ancient times
I guard against all foes.
My charge to you revealed designs,
To others - secret words.

[Urwen]

Well, I shuffled through Tom Bombadil, Treebeard and Gandalf, but none of them fits the riddle in its entirety.

[Galadriel55]

You are correct in concluding these three names are not the answer. But if you wish for more comments, please provide an explanation of what lead you to each guess.

[Urwen]

Sure. Here are my explanations for each:

Tom
To some, I am but fairy tale, - Not much is really known about Tom
The subject of your jest. - see below
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest. - He had various adventures

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name. - Some hobbits have a distaste for all things outside of the Shire, including Tom
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim. - He does things at his leisure

Relic old from ancient times - Tom is known as the oldest
I guard against all foes. - he doesn't seem to be afraid of anything
My charge to you revealed designs,
To others - secret words. - this one I really can't fit here.

Treebeard
To some, I am but fairy tale,
The subject of your jest. - Ents are not generally known
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest. - To find the Entwives

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name. - Some of the Shire-folk did in the first book.
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim. - He isn't hasty, to be sure.

Relic old from ancient times
I guard against all foes. - He protects the trees
My charge to you revealed designs,
To others - secret words. - Saruman's designs

Gandalf
To some, I am but fairy tale,
The subject of your jest. - To Hobbits, he is primarily known for his tricks and jokes
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest. - To stop Sauron, which presumably took a long time

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name. - At least in Gondor and Rohan
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim. - He comes and goes at his leisure

Relic old from ancient times
I guard against all foes. - It's in his job description
My charge to you revealed designs, - His sojourn with Saruman revealed Saruman's true designs
To others - secret words. - The inscription on the Ring and the one on doors to Moria.

[Galadriel55]

Ok, so here are a few general tips based on those guesses.
1. "You" is the same throughout the riddle. "Others", however, are not.
2. Both the quest and the jest are pretty specific; thus, your answers for Treebeard fit much better here than for Bombadil. Neither is correct though as neither person in the answer.
3. The relic is not the speaker. Read carefully.
4. The last two lines refer to specific events.


See if that helps redirect you a bit.

[Urwen]

So the answer isn't the relic but connected to the relic? And they guard against all foes, as in, all of them? In that case, another answer comes to mind, but....no one mocked them. Except possibly us readers.

[Urwen]

I am beginning to think it might not be a person....

[Galadriel55]

So -
The relic is what the speaker is guarding.
There is a moment when the speaker's tendencies are turned into a joke by people who have no idea of the speaker's true nature.

There are several elements to the riddle, several events that are referenced. If you get one of them, it will be easier to identify the speaker and the rest of the elements. So of the speaker evades you, maube tey to match a specific part of the riddle to a specific event?

[Urwen]

So someone who is guarding an object?

[Urwen]

Maybe Pippin. He is guarding the White Tree and he was often mocked by Gandalf for his dimwittedness.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So someone who is guarding an object?

You can try to solve these words, it's possible to go that way. You can also tackle the riddle from other angles. Or try different approaches simultaneously. Whichever element cracks first will lead you to the rest.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Maybe Pippin. He is guarding the White Tree and he was often mocked by Gandalf for his dimwittedness.

Good thoughts generally, but still lacking the connection to specific things - e.g. specific "quest", specific mocking, and the last two lines are in fog.

[Huinesoron]

If YOU is the same ?person? throughout, then we know that they:

-Treated the speaker as a fairy tale.
-Made a joke about them.
-Tarnished their name with 'slander, mockery, and slur'.
-Had 'designs' revealed to them by one of:
--The speaker's instructions ('I charge you to...')
--The speaker's ward ('He is in my charge')
--The speaker's actions in battle ('CHAAARGE!')
---Which also revealed 'Secret words' to others.
--'Designs' could mean pictures or plans.

No thoughts on who yet, because my only thought was Gandalf.

hS

[Urwen]

Maybe the 'endless quest' is guarding that object. Also, I am going to assume it's one of the 'good guys'. Also, relic is defined as tombstone or a tomb.

[Urwen]

Ah, it came to me. It was so obvious.

Right, so....Tilion?

To some, I am but fairy tale,
The subject of your jest. - in a song
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest. - to protect the flower

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name. - in a song
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim. - in a song, he overslept

Relic old from ancient times
I guard against all foes. - Telperion's flower, of course
My charge to you revealed designs,
To others - secret words. - The words on Door of Durin is only revealed in moonlight

[Galadriel55]

Excellent answer!

Tilion, aka the Man in the Moon, one who is known in truth to be unreliable on his path while chasing Arien but is most certainly not deep in his drink!

His charge, the Moon, revealed the designs on the gates of Moria, as well as the Moon runes on a certain map.

Over to you!

[Urwen]

Time to dig up something obscure, then....

[Urwen]

I stand tall
Arrayed in red
The color of fall
Atop of my head

Come to me, woe-bringer
Come to me and hide
You and your party I'll assist
I let you see far and wide

But beware:
For my master's heart isn't true
And please be aware
That I can't protect you

[Galadriel55]

Amon Rudh, the red mountain, "assisting" Turin&co ?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Amon Rudh, the red mountain, "assisting" Turin&co ?

And here I thought I could make it sneaky.

[Galadriel55]

I have an idea for another Legate-style riddle. But it shall take a couple days. Good riddles need time to brew properly.

[Urwen]

I might try my hand at that style too.

[Galadriel55]

Hmm, this one started in the same style but then ran aeay from me. But I think it's easier than my last one.



I knew the Proud One,
Lived in his house.
He's great but less famous
Than me and my spouse.

Humble I knew not;
My double he knew,
My double the sign-maker
And horse-giver too.

Humble and I were
Imprisoned alike.
He was rescued by friends,
I with shadow took flight.

The Humble and Proud:
Different claims to their fame,
Different race, different days.
But they share a name.




Happy riddling!

[Urwen]

Ah, might as well. Even if it doesn't fit, I'll get some comments which will help at least.


I knew the Proud One,
Lived in his house. -
He's great but less famous
Than me and my spouse. - Less famous than Beren and Luthien

Humble I knew not;
My double he knew,
My double the sign-maker
And horse-giver too. - Well, Arwen is said to be like Luthien;

Humble and I were
Imprisoned alike. - Well, Faramir is pretty humble
He was rescued by friends, - Pippin, Beregond and Gandalf
I with shadow took flight. - She escaped her imprisonment with aid of her hair (the first time) and Huan (the second time); also, Huan could be her 'shadow'.

The Humble and Proud:
Different claims to their fame,
Different race, different days.
But they share a name.

[Galadriel55]

You have some elements right but are missing a good chunk. Can you try to name all the participating characters? And revisit some of the guesses?

[Urwen]

Sure. Luthien is the speaker and Faramir is the 'humble'. The only thing I am missing is the 'Proud', who, if all the pieces should fall into the place, should be Faramir's namesake, but none of his namesakes are 'proud'.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Sure. Luthien is the speaker and Faramir is the 'humble'. The only thing I am missing is the 'Proud', who, if all the pieces should fall into the place, should be Faramir's namesake, but none of his namesakes are 'proud'.

Luthien is correct. Faramir is not.

[Urwen]

Well, the only individuals Luthien knew that could be called 'proud' are Celegorm and her father, and none of them shares a name with anyone.

Unless....

*wanders off to check something*

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, the only individuals Luthien knew that could be called 'proud' are Celegorm and her father, and none of them shares a name with anyone.

Unless....

*wanders off to check something*

I think I know what you're thinking; if you're not, I've got a guess of my own.

hS