WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Also, I am still here.

But wait, aren't you Austrian?
*snicker*

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Up until this comment you were doing just fine, but this statement makes me suspect you're pushing a bit.

How can you possibly say I SKIPPED it when I fully examined his first post and his mention of me right from the beginning? Did you read my post? I said quite clearly that it was time to examine who he dreamed of, and stated that I am the only person mentioned in his first post, and then proceeded to quote his first post as well as two other statements he made regarding that post. I did not skip his mention of me. Not by a long shot, and you implying that I did seems like you're just trying to stir something up.

The fact is, given what he said in the post and his explanations about the post later he was definitely not giving a remotely clear idea of affiliation, and so I said so and moved on.

Awh, apparently "skipped" was the wrong choice of words. What I meant was not that you deliberately failed to mention Boro's mention of you (which you didn't do, which anyone who is able to read could see easily enough, so trying to mislead people by that would be pretty stupid). What I meant was simply that you discarded the possibility rather easily. You had an argument for it, I grant you (the fact that Boro himself denied any hint in those words about you and Zeus), but I'm not entirely conviced by it. Just for the record, though, I'm not entirely convinced about my own theory, either.

Originally Posted by phantom

In a later post he mentions you, saying, "Greenie looks more or less ok". That statement I actually did skip. Why aren't you accusing me of skipping that quote?

Because a) I didn't remember the existence of that quote, and b) I don't think it's very relevant if the issue is who Boro might have dreamed of. I mean, who would make a seer hint and say someone looks more or less ok? Just asking.


EDIT: x.ed with Nerwen and phantom

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I suppose he means that Mac was after me, and Rikae defending Mac... but that's weirdly naive reasoning, from an experienced player.

I agree - especially given that you, Mac and Rikae are the sort of players who would have no problem with openly accusing or defending their mates, and Nog knows this well enough. Hmm. He baffles me a lot, but I'm not sure if it's because he's evil. After all, he was staying up until 9 am (weirdo!) which might explain some of the strange reasoning, and after all there are many roles in this game that might cause someone to act strangely.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Greenie

apparently "skipped" was the wrong choice of words... What I meant was simply that you discarded the possibility rather easily.

Ah, well then, all I can say to that is that I was attempting to examine Boro's posts fully and accurately. As you said yourself, "You had an argument for it, I grant you". Given the direct quotes the case seemed rather clear cut to me, so yes, I discarded it quite easily. You can say you're not entirely convinced by Boro's explanations about his first post (which is what my entire position is based upon), but if you're not going to believe what Boro said, why in the world would you suspect someone based upon his words?

And you needn't have answered my comment about what Boro said regarding you. I was just being petty and sarcastic. I thought it appropriate since I knew coming into the game you were wondering if, after meeting me in RL, you would find me more or less tolerable.

Okay... I think I'm feeling tired enough to fall asleep now. See you in about five hours.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

You can say you're not entirely convinced by Boro's explanations about his first post (which is what my entire position is based upon), but if you're not going to believe what Boro said, why in the world would you suspect someone based upon his words?

Where, in any of my posts, can you see me actually suspecting someone based upon Boro's words?

Originally Posted by phantom

And you needn't have answered my comment about what Boro said regarding you. I was just being petty and sarcastic. I thought it appropriate since I knew coming into the game you were wondering if, after meeting me in RL, you would find me more or less tolerable.

So you decided to make sure it would be less? Great logic, dear.

[Lalaith]

Oh, I just wanted to remind everyone, in case they had forgotten, that today the Mythomane comes into play. Potentially. Although given the number of gifteds in this game, the chance of him/her picking something that makes a difference is pretty high.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Loslote;If we lynch [B

Tum[/B], I would be very very happy. If we lynch Nog, I would be nearly as happy. If we lynch Mac, I would not argue against this. If we lynch anyone else, I would headdesk.

So why's that then? I mean....have I missed something?

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well, one lover down, one Seer down.

This particular phrasing makes me think one word. WOLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However, I like how he looks at Boro and his....stuff. (It's early. Hush.)

Originally Posted by the phantom

There. I've done my Boro read-through. Now can I finally go to bed?

Snerk.

Originally Posted by the phantom

But wait, aren't you Austrian?
*snicker*

See the last post I quoted. Fool child.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Oh, I just wanted to remind everyone, in case they had forgotten, that today the Mythomane comes into play. Potentially. Although given the number of gifteds in this game, the chance of him/her picking something that makes a difference is pretty high.

Wait. Isn't it toMorrow? Like they pick toNight and change toMorrow? Sorry, I guess I'll have to check the rules (again) to be sure.

Also, here's a question (that I'll copy paste over to the admin thread). Let's say Boro was the true seer. Let's also say that Agan (picking her for obvious reasons, since she's not playing or anything) is the false seer. Mytho Mith (again, same reason) picks Agan. Does she become the false seer or another true seer? I assume the former, but that's not really fair to the village. *pouts* I'm confuzzled, and I miss my Boro.

[Nogrod]

What a Day1! I think it was worth every minute. Heh, the more I play, the more I seem to begin liking that kind of involved Day1's. There should be leads enough to make some fairly decent observations from toDay (I'll try to occupy myself with that later on).

Just a few quick ones for now.

So why did the wolves go for Boro? The most straightforward explanation would be that he hit a nerve and the wolves had to act immediately. The problem with seer-hints - from the wolf-perspective - is that you can't ignore them even if you know killing that person might disrepute one or more of you, if the one posing as the seer has it right, that is.

That in turn would mean that there should have been a clear enough seer-hint with clear enough guilt shown for someone who actually is a wolf. Which would actually be Eonwë There would go my theory of him being Dionysos which I have to admit I rather like still - and actually (and hopefully) he was the false seer, so it is still possible I'm right with Eonwë. But that we shall not know until later.

The other thing is, were the wolves killing him because of the seer hints? I mean now after the fact it's more or less easy to say "ahh, right youy are, he was hinting to be the seer!", but I must admit at least I missed them completely yesterDay. It's also possible they killed him just because they knew he can be very good and he was fairly well trusted (at least not suspected enough to get easily lynched)?


On another issue. I still think my theory about Eonwë is quite plausible, whatever you say. The rules say only:

Dionysus is the Cursed. If the Wolves choose to Night kill him, he will join their ranks.

There is no remark on any loyalties he should or should not have and thus leaves it quite open for Dionysos to choose himself his loyalties (we don't know what Glirdan wrote in his role-PM to him of course).

Now knowing how so many people think that playing a wolf is the coolest thing one can do in Werewolf it's not that far-fetched to think someone being the cursed - and knowing it - would really desire for actually getting to be a wolf. That's why I agree with Rikae that the cursed should not know he is a cursed as it kind of makes him quite easily a cobbleresque-character not having the best of the village in mind but his own wolf-carreer in mind. That's why I said it is a problem with the rules.


Third one.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I suppose he means that Mac was after me, and Rikae defending Mac... but that's weirdly naive reasoning, from an experienced player.

It was not so much reasoning in any strong sense but a feeling that was based on few things. With Mac it was more or less not so much him suspecting Nerwen but Nerwen's attack on him that made me think they probably are not on the same side (cannot be proved and wolves can do that, to be sure), with Rikae it was the fact that I generally started to think her more innocent than not as the Day grew older, her excellent pick on Nerwen trying to influence the ideas of Zeus' alignments and the general feeling between Rikae and Mac not actually knowing each other's role (=not wolves then, at least the two of them). Therefore - mind you - I only said we could "more or less" trust, at least "a few Days".


Back to other things later on...

[satansaloser2005]

Announcement: THIS WAS TO BE POSTED YESTERDAY. I was having trouble with my nets and (as mentioned) was exhausted, so when the net died again after I voted I just went to sleep. However, I don't think it'd be fair to not share my thoughts, even though they've obviously changed. I have to go to work now, so I won't be able to update a lot, but these were my feelings as of my vote time yesterDay. It's not all that much, but it's unedited and straight from my Word. Have at it. (Oh, and I'l be back in a few hours to creep while I'm at lunch, hopefully.)

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I think he meant that in that case the pantom would be on the "good" side as opposed to being Hera. Then again, we're the Olympians- there is no good or evil, only us. But you're right. Zeus would rather have Hera live than the rest of us, even she is on the opposite side.

edit: x-ed with Foley. And I like that spelling mistake, so I'm not going to change it.

That freaking made my day. ^_^

Originally Posted by Rikae

Also, Boro is acting weird. I think he must have a special role of some kind. Loslote, too. And especially Nerwen, Wilwa, Eonwe and BeiGe. Phantom, however, just seems like a clueless ordo.

Erm, sweetie, everyone has a special role of some kind. I don’t know, but I found this statement a bit weird. (But Phantom, clueless? Obviously.)

Originally Posted by Folwren

I am under the distinct impression that everyone in this game has some sort of 'special role'.

I suggest that we NOT lynch Phantom, as he has not said anything remarkably ridiculous this game. There are much better candidates for killing so far.

And once more, I am uncertain of people's playing styles, but I don't understand why one would let the first thing out of their mouth be, "Frankly, I'd rather just lynch the seer." It might just be your style, Rikae, but it sounds rather dangerous to me.

It’s Rikae. She always does that. *pets her* Well Phantom will always at one point or another come up with something “remarkably ridiculous” as you put it. But yeah, I’m not wanting to lynch him toDay. At the moment he seems like scheming Phantom, not scheming wolftom.

Also, yay Foley! *squishes you*

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Well, Wilwa's post was at least an attempt at clarification so thanks for that. I have no idea what Sally's on about though - what's this plethora of ordness of which you speak?

Nothing. I just know that there are ordos (or close enough to them) because I am one and I’m not the ordo.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Ok, so I've been thinking about this for a while now, but I can't really think of a good solution:

What do we do if a Seer reveals?

What we normally do. We see if their dreams are legit (unless they say they’ve dreamt the false seer, of course) and if they are, we at least leave them alive. If their dreams are false, however, we’ll....well, we’ll have to cross that bloody bridge when we come to it, I suppose.

I really don’t want a seer reveal this game. It’d make my head asplode. >.<

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

She's not here. I say in these cases just count the vote since the voter doesn't have a chance to correct it.

I’m glad the mod god has your support in his decision. Heh. That’s Glirdan’s decision, but thanks for the input.

Actually, I bring this up because I think it’s interesting that she supports Steve’s lynch so....I don’t know, heartily? *blinks* Not the word I was looking for, but I’m really sleepy so it’ll do. (Grar, sleep deprivation.) Anyway, she’s asserting her opinion here, which....whatever, but the way she says it makes me think there’s another motivation for making Foley’s vote count.

Here’s a thought. I’m typing this without net so I’m not sure it’s relevant, but did Foley say she was going to be gone? Because if not, how did BG know? Iiiinteresting. (Just a thought. Meh.)

Originally Posted by Boromir88

May we put a freeze on posts for about an hour so I can keep up? Yeesh.

THIS.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, if we'll be able to tell when the cursed is turned, we can always lynch Eonwe - though "Dionysus poisoned me" reads to me like "I had too much to drink."

Either or. *snerk* The thing is, why would the cursed run around parading themselves? They’ve got a better chance of winning with the village than they do if they’re turned, so I don’t think it would be very prudent for the cursed to run a streak around the place calling out their role. Or is it just me? *blinks* I don’t know, but I think there’s something else going on there. (Either that or Steve’s just being silly.) I’m of course all for the wolf playing cobbler (or vice versa) theory, but if Steve is cursed I don’t understand why he’d act like this (unless he wants to be lynched before he’s even turned). Regular wolf who’s cursed hunting, sure, but cursed no.

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

I've drinken and I'm not 16. It's where I get my good looks from. Though I'm not French. Though I wouldn't drink that much, true. Dionyses doesn't have a lover. So is Eönwë hinting that he's Dionyses?

Xed with everyone since 134

So I have to ask the inevitable (if a bit rude, for which I apologize) question. You’ve been reading and that’s all you have to say?



Crackpot theory of the Day? I’m rather convinced that BG is a wolf who is trying to sacrifice either an innocent Steve or has picked up on a cobbler Steve. (By the way, if it’s the second one, the last post I quoted was a really poor ploy, but I know she’s new so I’m considering it a definite possibility.) First she weighs in on whether or not Foley’s vote should count (which itself isn’t weird, but her tone seems off to me) and then she makes this completely random post about drinking and being French (dude, someone translate that for me please....Dun?) and blah blah that ends with Steve being Dionysus. Which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. But I think BG is making very little sense and either trying to hint back to her wolves, trying to get her cobbler deaded (which makes the most sense to me), or just taking somebody down to save her own furry little skin. Either way, a wolf she is, a wolf she be, she looks just like a wolf to me.

[Macalaure]

Don't they teach little seers in elementary school not to make jokes about seers in their first post? Now Boro is dead.

I had a look at his posts. I agree with phantom that Boro probably didn't try to hint us his alignment. (Unless he dreamt of him, found him a non-wolf, and fooled around with him a little to try to guess whether the role he dreamt of was correct.) His hint to Keeper is strange. There's a ton of things he could have thought she was and I don't understand how he got to suspect any of them. I don't think he tried to hint an Eonwe-wolf to us. Other than the -4-comment he only mentioned him once, telling us that we're talking about him enough. Now, if I knew the identity of a wolf, that's not what I'd tell people to do.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Eonwe = Wolf

So, in the end, that's my best guess at his Seer dream.

If this is true, then I have good news for the village: the True Seer is still alive. And if this is the case, we now we have the same situation as usual, which is good. But if I wasn't his Night 1 dream (which seems more likely to me), the remaining Seer may be false. But at least now they have time to come out openly about it. Of course, it may be complicated if the Mythomaniac chose to take Boro's role, because that would mean that we're in the same situation as before, with one true and one false Seer.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, since you've drawn attention to it: it looks like he thought she had one of the protective roles– but if so, why put her in jeopardy like that? Or was he hoping to trick the wolves into thinking he was indeed a hinting Lover?

It doesn't actually matter. Whatever role she has (other than hunter), picking him would benefit the village.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

He might have been simply talking about the Eonwe-Dionysus business.
The fact that the wolves went ahead and killed him doesn't look too good for Steve, however.

So, are you saying that as a wolf you'd rather kill the seer than leave one of your own to get killed so early on?

Because Boro basically voted for me for no reason, so obviously if the wolves killed him it would point straight to me. Wouldn't that be more than a little risky?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, here's a question (that I'll copy paste over to the admin thread). Let's say Boro was the true seer. Let's also say that Agan (picking her for obvious reasons, since she's not playing or anything) is the false seer. Mytho Mith (again, same reason) picks Agan. Does she become the false seer or another true seer? I assume the former, but that's not really fair to the village.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

edit: x-ed with after Sally's first.

[Lalaith]

Mytho Mith (again, same reason) picks Agan. Does she become the false seer or another true seer?

Yes I wondered that too. Also, if a Lover is picked, do they become a menage a trois?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

That in turn would mean that there should have been a clear enough seer-hint with clear enough guilt shown for someone who actually is a wolf. Which would actually be Eonwë There would go my theory of him being Dionysos which I have to admit I rather like still - and actually (and hopefully) he was the false seer, so it is still possible I'm right with Eonwë. But that we shall not know until later.

See my post here for why I don't think Boro dreamed a wolf. (Although, note that this is all according to my logic, and Boro, clearly, has his own.)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The other thing is, were the wolves killing him because of the seer hints? I mean now after the fact it's more or less easy to say "ahh, right youy are, he was hinting to be the seer!", but I must admit at least I missed them completely yesterDay.

Okay... I thought they were pretty much impossible to miss yesterDay; I thought he was probably bluffing, though.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

On another issue. I still think my theory about Eonwë is quite plausible, whatever you say. The rules say only: There is no remark on any loyalties he should or should not have and thus leaves it quite open for Dionysos to choose himself his loyalties (we don't know what Glirdan wrote in his role-PM to him of course).

Now knowing how so many people think that playing a wolf is the coolest thing one can do in Werewolf it's not that far-fetched to think someone being the cursed - and knowing it - would really desire for actually getting to be a wolf.

Well, some people do play it like that– Agan did when she was a Cursed who knew her role, ages ago. An awfully risky tactic though. I'm not sure I'd try it.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Third one. It was not so much reasoning in any strong sense but a feeling that was based on few things. With Mac it was more or less not so much him suspecting Nerwen but Nerwen's attack on him that made me think they probably are not on the same side (cannot be proved and wolves can do that, to be sure)

I presume this is what you're talking about? I happen to know it isn't wolf-on-wolf, but even I can see how it could easily look that way. It's fairly cautious and lukewarm, whereas Mac's attack on me was a good deal more definite.

I'm not sure what I'm getting at here... maybe just that you seem to be interpreting everything in the exact opposite way to me.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

her excellent pick on Nerwen trying to influence the ideas of Zeus' alignments

Mind jogging my memory as to what my fiendish goal was at that point?

Originally Posted by Eönwë

So, are you saying that as a wolf you'd rather kill the seer than leave one of your own to get killed so early on?

Because Boro basically voted for me for no reason, so obviously if the wolves killed him it would point straight to me. Wouldn't that be more than a little risky?

Don't be silly, Steve. A dreamed wolf has to be written off anyway– and I think most packs would consider it worth the risk.

Ha, that's such a dodgy argument! Maybe I should be worried about you after all...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Sally

Erm, sweetie, everyone has a special role of some kind. I don’t know, but I found this statement a bit weird. (But Phantom, clueless? Obviously.)

Wow, that was a really absurd comment I made, then, wasn't it? So much so that someone (although not you or Folwren, apparently) might even conclude that it was a joke!


So, I would say the reasoning that Boro must have coupled his seer-hints with an (accidental or not) correct suspicion seems the most plausible. Someone mentioned wolves that hadn't played with him before, but I'm hard pressed to think of four people in the village who aren't familiar with Boro, and as Nog pointed out, his seer hints would have looked like a very likely bluff. There seems to be a good case that Boro didn't really behave as if he had found a wolf (in either Steve or Phantom), but remember - hinting correctly and thus tipping off the wolves wouldn't necessarily mean dreaming of one of them; some of them know their lovers' roles as well. I'm going to have to go over Boro's posts again with this in mind.
Although another thing that occurs to me is that Boro paired his seer-hints with hunter-hints, something he wouldn't do if he were actually the hunter - it would be counterproductive. So perhaps he didn't correctly point to a baddie, after all. Could be he dreamed of Mira, for instance, in which case he could also still be the false seer (indeed, probably would, because he seems to have thought Mira was a ranger, and she seems not to have been, or at least, not to have protected him.)

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Although another thing that occurs to me is that Boro paired his seer-hints with hunter-hints, something he wouldn't do if he were actually the hunter - it would be counterproductive. So perhaps he didn't correctly point to a baddie, after all.

To clarify the above - maybe the wolves concluded he wasn't bluffing because of his combination of seer and hunter hints.

[Rikae]

Also, why is Nerwen arguing that her suspicions of Mac weren't wolf-on-wolf, when that's what Nog said in the first place? Weird...

[Inziladun]

Well, interesting stuff. Boro's Seer hints appear to have gotten more overt late in the Day, yet he still wasn't throwing a great deal of suspicion on anyone.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Eonwe and Lalaith feel a little less good, Eonwe's been talked enough and Lalaith, while I feel the most wary about her clinging to my Zeus post for her vote. It's too crappy of a feeling to vote for her, 'specially since she's this is her first time back in a while. Need more time on her.

Puts Lal and steve basically in the same category, looking "less good", but not very pointed toward either.

Which makes the sudden vote for Eönwë, and his reasoning for it, a little jarring.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I said Blind was about a 5 on the scale of 1 to 10. Eonwe's looking like a "neg" 4, so

++Eonwe

"'Neg' 4"? Meaning not at all valuable to the village. It's at odds with what Boro said previously. I have to think if Eönwë had been Boro's dream he would have been more aggressive with his accusations, especially when there had already been some suspicion (and votes) for him. Yet we have the "Neg 4", which seems rather emphatic.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Do you have reasons for these, or are they just gut-feelings?

Lottie was pointing at tum yesterDay.

Originally Posted by Loslote

BeiGei voters - especially the later ones - really really need to be looked at toMorrow. I'd say most especially Tum, but that's just personal suspicion.

And kept it up toDay.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I want to see dead because they are evil, precious, evil:
Tum
Nog
Mac?

If we lynch Tum, I would be very very happy. If we lynch Nog, I would be nearly as happy. If we lynch Mac, I would not argue against this. If we lynch anyone else, I would headdesk.

I've only skimmed what happened after I went to bed Day 1, but if I'd been around, I probably would have voted for tum myself. I want to go back and look at what all she said.

x/d with Rikae x 3

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So perhaps he didn't correctly point to a baddie, after all. Could be he dreamed of Mira, for instance, in which case he could also still be the false seer (indeed, probably would, because he seems to have thought Mira was a ranger, and she seems not to have been, or at least, not to have protected him.)

He could have been the False Seer and have pointed to a baddie– the two aren't mutually exclusive.

EDIT:X'd with Zil and Rikae.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Also, why is Nerwen arguing that her suspicions of Mac weren't wolf-on-wolf, when that's what Nog said in the first place? Weird...

I guess I didn't make that clear. I'm saying that though my suspicions weren't wolf-on-wolf, I can't see why Nogrod was so sure they weren't– sure enough to conclude that Mac and I couldn't be packmates, in fact. Does that make more sense?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

He could have been the False Seer and have pointed to a baddie– the two aren't mutually exclusive.

EDIT:X'd with Zil and Rikae.

He could have, but to actually pinpoint the role (say, Phantom=Hera or Steve=the cursed) would be very unlikely.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

He could have, but to actually pinpoint the role (say, Phantom=Hera or Steve=the cursed) would be very unlikely.

It would indeed be very unlikely that, by mere accident, Boro correctly pointed to a phantom Hera, particularly so early in the Day. But did he talk about Steve as the Cursed, or just as someone he wouldn't mind lynching? If the former, the whole theory breaks down. However, if he was less specific, even that weak suspicion, added to his Seer-hinting, might have been enough to get the pack after him (supposing Steve is in fact a wolf, that is).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by autume98

If you find a purpose for day one other than what you mentioned you will have to share.

So far I got a whole lot of nothing.

First post.

Originally Posted by autume98

That's true. Didn't think about that. At the time though it is quite confusing.

I don't read much into those two.

Originally Posted by autume98

I second this! There has been some good discussion, but it also seem like there has been some dragged on discussion regarding the lovers.

I don't think the Seers should reveal. Obviously they should give some hints, confuse some wolves, and hopefully help out the town while they are at it.

I think I skipped over the Zeus comments so I'll have to go back and see if there is anything there.

Singles out a statement from Nog that she agrees with. Doesn't think the Seers should reveal. Even if one of them has a dream they later find is incorrect?

Originally Posted by autume98

I think it'd be good for Eonwe to comment on this. I personally am leaning towards him being innocent at this point. However am going to be keeping my eye on him.

Wants Eönwë to explain the Dionysus remark. As for him being "innocent", I don't think that was necessarily in question, unless she meant she didn't think he was the Cursed.

Originally Posted by autume98

I'm glad I'm not the only one who got confused! And a cheat sheet chart sounds like a really good idea. I think I might have to make myself one too.

This was in response to KeeperMira saying she needed a cheat sheet to keep the roles straight. A harmless enough remark in itself, I guess, but the tone just seems too glib, somehow.

Originally Posted by autume98

I was going to post the same thing. I'm so glad I made the list cause it made all this Zeus talk even more interesting. Is it just something to stir up the pot and add confusion?

Agreeing with me and Mira about not understanding Boro's talk of Zeus and Hera. She seems to do a lot of 'agreeing'.

Originally Posted by autume98

Looks like so far I don't have much as far as suspicions. The people that have hit my radar so far toDay are:

Boro - There was all the Zeus talk around him. However he generally confuses me so it probably means nothing.

Lottie - That might just because I'm on her radar so it probably is just a knee-jerk reaction to that. However she's also is on Nog's radar and I tend to trust Nog.

Mac - I'm not sure about him. I really can't put my finger on it, but it also might be that once again I'm on his radar so it probably means nothing.

Eonwe - I'd like to know more about this statement:


Everyone else seems to be ok or hasn't said a lot so really don't have much to go on.

On another note I talked to Sally and she said she's having internet that seems to be working sporadically.

List of people "on the radar". Interesting that she uses Nog as a reason to suspect Lottie.

Originally Posted by autume98

So now I'm not the only one who has suspicions of Mac. I really am beginning to wonder if some hints are going on. Granted it would seem to be pretty obvious that he's giving a hint to a fellow lover if that's what he were doing. Anyone have any thoughts?

Agreeing with me about Mac.

Originally Posted by autume98

At this time Mac is most suspicous in my book.

Self-explanatory. But then, very next post, responding to Mac:

Originally Posted by autume98

I am definitely with you on this one. I also know that we definitely see each other as enemies right now. As much as I have my suspicions about you I'm not sure I'm willing to vote for you just yet. Maybe it's because I feel the same way about the BG votes. It'd be an easy lynch and I don't agree with that.

She'd just said Mac was the 'most suspicious', then waffles and says she might not vote for him.

Originally Posted by autume98

As I was looking at my list I am wondering about wilwa and her post for BG.

I am also not sure about Boro. He sure did stir up the pot, but I'm not sure that he's a wolf.

Looking at my list of players no one is jumping out at me screaming wolf. I'm wondering if they are one of the quiet ones.

You mentioned Zil. Is there something that makes you suspect him or you just suspect him on principle?

Mac had asked her who she would vote for, if not BG. Says Wilwa because of the latter's post about BG (which post I'm not sure). Pretty odd, since tum herself voted BG in the end. and Mac is nowhere to be found there.

Originally Posted by autume98

I want to touch on a few of the items you mentioned. For the most part I agree with your innocent list. I say most part instead of all because I'm not in your innocent list.

I know I've played with Nienna but can't seem to remember how she plays. However as you pointed out she's a BG voter. I think some of the people who have voted for BG have been throwing their votes away.

Not sure what you meant by this: Greenie (the nagging Persephone-suspicion persists since it fits so well)

I think you make a good point about Keeper. Maybe something to look at.

As you pointed out Inzil is a BG voter.

And I wanted to touch on Nerwen. To me her comment seemed innocent, and I didn't see her defending herself as being tense.

This was a response to a list Mac made. Interesting that she now agrees with him quite a bit, where not long before he'd been 'the most suspicious in her book', and all that totally vanished.

Originally Posted by autume98

I hear you Nog! I keep thinking that I really do need to vote soon, but then this is just sooo interesting that I'm not ready to put my laptop away and call it a night. Not to mention I really need to look at who I want to vote for. Yet at this time I don't see any unity on the votes other than the ones for BG.

More agreeing with Nog, this time on his comment that he just couldn't bring himself to go to bed. Seems odd that she keeps singling him out like that.

Originally Posted by autume98

I think we should keep Eonwe around. If he turns then we can always lynch him the next day. Right?

Doesn't want to lynch Eönwë, but doesn't say why not.

Originally Posted by autume98

It seems as though one of the people I see as innocent is going to get lynched toDay. Out of the three with the most votes I see all of them as innocent. It doesn't seem right to vote for any of them.

The one I feel least inclined to vote for is Eonwe. Not sure who to vote for between BG and Nerwen. However if it came to where I had to save Eonwe I think I'd have to vote for BG. Sorry BG.

Says she saw steve, BG, and Nerwen as innocent, but apparently intends to vote for one of them. Still no further mention of the one who had been her surest suspect, Mac.

Originally Posted by autume98

So after making that post I think it's time for me to vote and go to bed.

++BG

And with no further ado, votes BG.

All right, so she used the fact that Wilwa and I voted for BG as marks against us, then did the same thing herself.
She came out strongly against Mac, and let that die completely with no explanation.
And the odd fixation on Nog....

If I'd been able to stay til DL I would almost certainly have voted tum instead of BG. Unless something changes, that's probably what I'll do toDay.

x/d with all since my last

[Macalaure]

With all the seer-talk and "7 between 1 and 10", Boro pretty much told the wolves to kill him. There were a few scenarios the wolves would have considered.

1) He's indeed a high-level gifted.
2) He's a hunter.
3) He's an ordo or low-level gifted trying to make the wolves waste a kill.
4) He's the cursed and wants to be turned.

1) Kill him right away, even if he might be protected.
2) If Eonwe is a wolf they might hesitate, but otherwise: kill. The hunters' chances are worst during Night2. The sooner to get rid of them, the better.
3) Little benefit, but "At least we won't accidentally kill one of the unknown lovers."
4) Kill, obviously, especially considering that we would probably lynch Eonwe.

[the phantom]

During the time I had last night I did a bit of reading for Hades hints and Mac stood out a couple of times.

The first statement that jumped out was this-

Originally Posted by Mac

If I were Persephone, I'd know who to pick first now.

I realize quite well that I didn't include it in its entire context, but it did in fact seem to jump out at me stand-alone, as he didn't have to say it exactly like that.

And then he said this-

Originally Posted by Mac

The lovers are trying to find each other - we have to look for hints.

Almost as if he was getting Persephone's attention- "Hey! Persephone! Be looking for hints! *ahem* "

And then there was this one that looks rather harmless, but immediately upon my second read-through stood out to me-

Originally Posted by Mac

*gives up*

That was the entire post- two words only. And since I was looking for Hades clues, I thought "Hades gives up", which of course immediately triggered the scripture where it says "Hades gives up the dead".

And then the final statement that really really stood out to me-

Originally Posted by Mac

In my opinion, though it's frustrating to be alone with it, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover".

The middle part of the statement that stands alone between the commas I found quite interesting, "though it's frustrating to be ALONE with it". A hint that he's all alone, i.e. he's not with his lover?

What do other people think?

And of course I should ask Mac directly- what's the deal, laddie? Do you feel you were rather fixated on Lovers yesterday, particularly Hades/Persephone? If so, was it intentional?

The thing is, there could be a couple of explanations with behavior like that- the obvious thing, the less obvious but more likely by percentages thing, or the least likely by role percentage and easily forgotten thing but obvious if you re-read the rules. (Do you follow me?) So- which thing is it?

[Rikae]

Actually, I read the "although it's frustrating to be alone with it" post (which also is eye catching for ending with the words "I am a lover") several times over before making up my mind that the wording, which is odd enough to jump out at me, was probably due to Mac using a second language and not any kind of hint. I'm still a bit torn about it, though.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by the phantom

The thing is, there could be a couple of explanations with behavior like that- the obvious thing, the less obvious but more likely by percentages thing, or the least likely by role percentage and easily forgotten thing but obvious if you re-read the rules. (Do you follow me?) So- which thing is it?

I'm not sure I have the heart to tell you.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mac

I'm not sure I have the heart to tell you.

And there's another lover quote! Are you trying to make things difficult?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Actually, I read the "although it's frustrating to be alone with it" post (which also is eye catching for ending with the words "I am a lover") several times over before making up my mind that the wording, which is odd enough to jump out at me, was probably due to Mac using a second language and not any kind of hint. I'm still a bit torn about it, though.

Hmmm.... So perhaps he wasn't hinting that he was Hades, but rather that he was German.

On the subject of Steve- I said yesterday I didn't think he looked like Dionysus and I stick by that, so if Boro was the false Seer and dreamed of Steve then I believe he is innocent, as it's unlikely the false dream yielded the correct role. If Boro was the real Seer and dreamed Steve then I was at least right about him not being Dionysus, but obviously we should lynch him for Wolfdom. Bleh. Which is more likely?

I agree with Nerwen calling that one argument he made today "dodgy", but that's really all I've seen from him that gets my suspicion up.

[A Little Green]

Hmm. I was pretty sure yesterDay that Mac was Hades (a big part of why I voted for him in the first place), but didn't want to say it because I kind of hoped against all hope that Persephone had failed to notice what I did (a big part of why I voted for him with such flimsy reasons instead of my real ones). That obviously doesn't matter anymore now that all his possible Hades hints are out in the open anyway.

I have some doubts yet (among them the classic "Can it be this easy?"), but unless something drastic happens I'd be willing to vote for Mac toDay (though my track record of voting the same person twice in a row is rather terrible - most often the said person has turned out innocent. Unless it's Nog. )

I think I'll make a list now because I fear that I (and most others, for that matter) have been ignoring some players and concentrating on others. If I have time after that, I'll check through the posts of someone who is sliding by with hardly anyone noticing.


EDIT: x-ed with phantom

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by phantom

so if Boro was the false Seer and dreamed of Steve then I believe he is innocent, as it's unlikely the false dream yielded the correct role.

While I agree that Eonwe is probably not the cursed, the probability of the event that Eonwe has a (potentially) evil role is not affected by the outcome of the random experiment that determined the false seer's dream.

Originally Posted by phantom

Are you trying to make things difficult?

Me?

[Rikae]

Phantom, I know very well what you're up to, but right now I'm more concerned about Nerwen. She seems a little fishy, eh? I guess it's just a hunch, though.

Don't like people picking on my sweetie so much. He hasn't played in a long time, so let's not lynch him on Day 2, shall we? Especially when we have two major leads pointing in the direction of Steve and... helllo Almighty Phantom!

EDIT: X'd with Sweetie-Pie

[Lalaith]

if Boro was the false Seer and dreamed of Steve then I believe he is innocent, as it's unlikely the false dream yielded the correct role

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a Seer dreams of a Cursed, is he told that the player is an ord? So for Boro to have dreamt of Eonwe and believed him to be evil, it would be either as wolf or, arguably, lover?

[Rikae]

Where is all this "Steve is probably not the cursed" business coming from, anyway? I haven't seen a good argument against it. Against him having been Boro's dream and the cursed, yes, but there's still solid reason for thinking he's the cursed. His explanation for his "Dionysus" remark looked to me like a less-than-sincere echo of Nerwen and Boro's explanations.

For Boro's dream, though, I'm strongly leaning toward Phantom=Zeus. However, if he is, do we want to lynch him, or try to get Hera first and make him into an innocent (with additional powers, and on the side of the village)? Puts a bit of a new light on Phantom's lover-talk of yesterDay as well. Still, I doubt he'd have done anything yet that would lead us to Hera.

EDIT: X'd with Lalaith.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mac

While I agree that Eonwe is probably not the cursed, the probability of the event that Eonwe has a (potentially) evil role is not affected by the outcome of the random experiment that determined the false seer's dream.

Yeah, true I guess.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a Seer dreams of a Cursed, is he told that the player is an ord? So for Boro to have dreamt of Eonwe and believed him to be evil, it would be either as wolf or, arguably, lover?

Yep.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Don't like people picking on my sweetie so much. He hasn't played in a long time, so let's not lynch him on Day 2, shall we? Especially when we have two major leads pointing in the direction of Steve and... helllo Almighty Phantom!

Your "sweetie" may not have played in a long time, but I haven't either! Not since last summer. What about some pity for me?

edit: x-post Rikae

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Your "sweetie" may not have played in a long time, but I haven't either! Not since last summer. What about some pity for me?

Don't cry, little one - you're a special snowflake. And king of the Gods. What more do you want?


Anyway, you'll note that I don't actually think you should be lynched at this point in time; or at least, I consider it debatable.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Where is all this "Steve is probably not the cursed" business coming from, anyway? I haven't seen a good argument against it.

I gave my argument yesterday. Given what I've seen in the past and in this game from Steve, his Dionysus comment definitely felt like a throwaway. Plus there was his tandem Ranger idea, which I don't see why he should've mentioned had he been a cursed intent on helping the baddies.

Originally Posted by Rikae

For Boro's dream, though, I'm strongly leaning toward Phantom=Zeus.

Okay, first there is the fact that I am not Zeus.

Then, for those who don't know to trust my word-
Where did he hint at such a thing? Boro specifically said to Mac that there were intentions in his first post, but-

Originally Posted by Boro

Zeus has absolutely nothing to do with those intentions, you're looking at the wrong part.

That seems rather a stupid thing to say if he was indeed trying to hint at Zeus's identity.

And even if he hadn't said that, but rather had actually said that I was Zeus, all that would mean is that he was the false Seer.

(edit: lunch time- brb)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Wow, that was a really absurd comment I made, then, wasn't it? So much so that someone (although not you or Folwren, apparently) might even conclude that it was a joke!

Shush. I was tired and thought maybe, just maybe, you'd lost your marbles. Good to know you're still all right then. *pets you* I was a bit concerned for you.


Phantom? Special snowflake? Nah.


In other news, I'd love to make a list of suspicions, but I'll need to read the thread again. And again, I'm useless. *pouts* On the plus side, at least Dun's not tried to attack me as usual. Perhaps he knows something I don't. Hmmmm. Nah, not possible.


EDIT: x'd with Phantom....pants *runs and hides*

[Rikae]

I would not put so much stock in Boro having said that; he was defending himself at that point, after all.

EDIT: X'd with Sally.

[Folwren]

Greetings, all. sorry I'm late. I'm not even here now, really. Just for like two minutes.

I will be on again in approximately 3 hours, at which time, I will try to read everything and post something of substance.

For now, I will say that I read most of what went on yesterday and I'd like to say that it was really ... not smart to kill BeiGei. Just sayin'. You all could have gone for someone who was at least remotely guilty.

That being said, I will depart. During the few minutes I have left right now, I will read and prolly not post again until a little later this afternoon.

--Foley

P.S. Sorry about not highlighting my vote yesterday, Mr. Mod. and fellow players. I'd neglected to notice that it was highlighted in the discussion thread. I just remembered from way back when where all that was needed was a seperate line, two plus signs, and bolded lettering. whoops.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Folwren

For now, I will say that I read most of what went on yesterday and I'd like to say that it was really ... not smart to kill BeiGei. Just sayin'. You all could have gone for someone who was at least remotely guilty.

Did you miss the part where she was shifty and rather nonsensical? :eyeroll:

In other news, don't worry about the vote. Happens to the best of us.


I don't want to go back to work. But I must. I'll be back in a few hours.

[Rikae]

Oh, and Sally, dear, don't look at the post count...

I look forward to watching you try to catch up.

EDIT: whoa! X'd with Sally and Folwren.