The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[Gollum the Great]

++Beleg Cuthalion

Because he's awesome. And he's a friend (something we need more of...).

[Strongbow]

++Beleg

Come now. With my username, you think I could go any other way?

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Standing watching when let's say somebody attacks your friend, such kind of pacifism will be surely immoral. But have you for example read anything about Mahatma Gandhi? He was just a man like everybody else, but his concepts of non-aggression I find actually pretty nice, and he proved them himself with quite good outcome several times...

Oh, yes, I have read plenty about him. But note that I did say "generally". Historically, Gandhi was rather the exception.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Frodo

To me, there is little bravery shown in Tolkien's works as great as Frodo's acceptance of the burden of the Ring, especially after listening to all that was said about it at the Council of Elrond.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

To me, there is little bravery shown in Tolkien's works as great as Frodo's acceptance of the burden of the Ring, especially after listening to all that was said about it at the Council of Elrond.

He was a bigger glory hog than Boromir but since he was so diminuative in stature nobody suspected it. He's really a tyrant.

[Ilya]

++Frodo

Yes, Beleg is great. Yes, Frodo is nothing without Sam. But he's a far better developed character, and his failure at the test is what makes his sacrifice all the more meaningful.

[the phantom]

We see so much less of Beleg when compared to Frodo- pages and pages less. And yet in that little bit of time we have with him Beleg proves that he is an amazing person. If we had the exposure to him we have to Frodo, I think Beleg would win this contest quite easily.

Expert teacher, tracker, and warrior, and the truest of friends. I salute...

++Beleg

[skip spence]

Frodo was the big favourite ahead of this match but the voting was much closer than expected. In the end the final vote by the Phantom was decisive and since his choice was Beleg the Ringbearer is eliminated. Smell you later, Frodo!

He's been called the "Shylock" of Middle Earth and an "evil Dwarf". Next up is the match between the unsung hero and outsider Mim the Petty Dwarf, who comes face to face with none other than Sauron the Dark Lord, the greatest enemy of the free people in the second and third Age of Arda.

Mim the Petty Dwarf vs. Sauron

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Mim the Petty Dwarf vs. Sauron

++Sauron

Why vote for the lesser of two evils?

[mormegil]

++MIM

I am quite fond of his name

[Aganzir]

++Mîm

He's a very misunderstood and interesting character whose purpose in the story was much more intriguing than Sauron's. Besides he's a dwarf.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Somehow with Mim and Sauron the Gilligan's Island
episode of Jack and the Beanstalk with "Gilligan"
running between the giant's legs comes to mind.

So, since petty dwarves "get no respect"

+ + Mim

Also:

Why vote for the lesser of two evils?

I thought you should always vote for the lesser of two weevils?

[A Little Green]

++ Sauron

Talking about the Sil Sauron now, of course - LotR Sauron is plain boring. Sauron is pretty cool in the Sil, whereas Mîm is one of those characters I have never especially liked. Of evil and slightly nasty, I choose the evil.

[the phantom]

Let us compare these two- Mim and Sauron.
----
Mim- He has a chapter in a book named after him (Of Mim the Dwarf).

Sauron- One of the best selling books of all time is named after him (The Lord of the Rings).
----
Mim- Brought about the destruction of a group of men living on a hill.

Sauron- Brought about the destruction of Numenor and Arnor.
----
Mim- Responsible for the deaths of the men upon Amon Rhud.

Sauron- Responsible for the deaths of thousands, perhaps millions.
----
Mim- Directly responsible for slaying... erm... probably a rabbit at least.

Sauron- Directly slew the High King of the Elves and the King of Gondor.
----
Mim- Caused Turin to be captured.

Sauron- Caused Valinor to be removed from the world.
----
Mim- Attempted to take over the empty halls of Nargothrond. Did not succeed. Stopped by an old man.

Sauron- Attempted to take over the world. Nearly succeeded. Stopped by Eru.
----
Mim- Left behind no legacy.

Sauron- Without Sauron, no Tol-In-Gaurhoth. He will live on through our Werewolf games forever.
----
Yeah... Take a wild guess at which way my vote is gonna go.

++Sauron

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

While I fancy Sauron (also, especially the Sil one... or more concretely, the "Gorlim" one; or then the "Pharazon" one), still, I became really fond of Mîm. And now thinking of it, aww, his tale is just so painfully sad - losing both of his sons in such a horrible way! (Not to mention him being the last of his kind.) No, actually, my favourite is clear! Pity wins.

++Mîm

I really wish he would win.

Oh, and, besides - he had a cool prophecy. Oh...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate

++Mîm

I really wish he would win.

I don't. So

++Sauron

Mwahaha.

Erm... okay.

But yes, I like him better, (although I don't really like either him or Mîm). It's all that scary Silm stuff that has already been mentioned.

And as for pity, I'm actually going further than Gandalf himself. I think I even pity Sauron, on some level. I pity the great talent and the soul of an artist that were - in a way - lost when Morgoth corrupted him.

Now I know! It's more or less the same as my pity for Darth Vader...

[Nogrod]

So Beleg overtook Frodo Baggins himself!

Yay! This is getting interesting indeed!

So the next major character to be dropped is Sauron, right? Let's see a carnival here and let the fresh winds blow!

Oh, just a minute, the pairs in this round look like Skip has made sure some of the top idols will survive anyway... There goes the grand scheme.


But in that case I'm going to vote for

++ Sauron

As said already here - and discussed in a separate thread lately - the Silm-Sauron is just magnificiently interesting character (unlike the LotR-Sauron who is just the abstract evil with no qualities eg. a different literal and philosophical idea).

And although I have almost always felt a deep sympathy with Mím (probably not the first time I read the Silmarillion as I was too young to appreciate him back then as a kid) there has always been something in his character I have disliked. I mean the sorrow of a father who lost his sons and the knowledge of being the last of one's kind are great and moving themes. But there still is something in the "petty" pride he has that has always been something like a turn-off for me. I don't know if it's cultural inheritance or something but there it is and I can't help it. I know I should think more highly of him but I just can't - at least if I have to make a choice between him and Sauron of the Silmarillion...

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Mim- Left behind no legacy.

Doesn't the fact that I voted for him leave a legacy?

Originally Posted by tummy

We see so much less of Beleg when compared to Frodo- pages and pages less. And yet in that little bit of time we have with him Beleg proves that he is an amazing person. If we had the exposure to him we have to Frodo, I think Beleg would win this contest quite easily.

and yet...

Mim- He has a chapter in a book named after him (Of Mim the Dwarf).

Sauron- One of the best selling books of all time is named after him (The Lord of the Rings).

Odd contradiction here tummy. So you can vote for Beleg, which was a good choice, on the grounds that he made an impact in such a short segment and yet you use the same reasoning against Mim.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by morm

Odd contradiction here tummy. So you can vote for Beleg, which was a good choice, on the grounds that he made an impact in such a short segment and yet you use the same reasoning against Mim.

I think not. My point on Beleg is that in his short appearance he manages to be quite awesome. Mim was not, so the two are completely different. I believed that if Beleg had received equal text time that he would've blown Frodo away. In other words, we got to know Frodo better, and that gave him an advantage. Beleg was every bit as kind, forgiving, etc all the other virtues Frodo had, only the Elf got less coverage.

Mim and Sauron on the other hand- my point about them had not to do with textual coverage, but that Sauron was so ridiculously important that a book was named after him. THE book in terms of Middle-Earth. Tolkien could have spent every day of his life writing Mim's life story, and he still would've been but a speck next to Sauron. No amount of increased coverage could catch him up.

[Gollum the Great]

++Gorthaur

Mim is a little brat who thinks he's the one who matters. I despise that sort.

[Groin Redbeard]

++Sauron

However much I like dwarves, I have to vote for the most interesting character out of the two. For me the equation is likability over interest, Sauron is far more interesting than Mim.

[Strongbow]

++Sauron

Ash Sauron durbatulûk.

[Morthoron]

Hmmm...a despicable dwarf or a despicable Maia? A cunning ring or a cunning runt?

I'll go with Mr. Mordor...++Gorthaur

[Lalwendë]

++Mim the Petty Dwarf

Because he amuses me and because petty means 'toilet' in Lancastrian so I always grin when I hear his name but Sauron's a bit depressing in comparison.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Sauron- Attempted to take over the world. Nearly succeeded. Stopped by Eru.

...but more directly stopped by a psychotic midget tripping over. Oh, and lack of OH&S. I mean, if there'd only been a safety railing at the Crack of Doom... never mind.

Even so, as a loyal denizen of Tol-in-Gaurhoth, I'll naturally vote–

++Sauron.

I mean... come on... Mîm? How'd he even get this far?

[skip spence]

Despite falling behind early on, Sauron the Great has crushed Mim by 10 votes to 5 and will face Beleg in the quarter-finals. Mim, again the last of his kind, is once more on the losing end.

Next up is another First Age showdown: Glaurung, father of dragons and master of stinging sarcasm, is to play Maedhos, everyone's favourite lefty and in the end, a victim of bitter irony.

Match 3 of round 2:

Glaurung vs. Maedhros

[Andsigil]

++Maedhros

Maedhros is one of the most tragic figures in The Silmarillion, with his misguided sense of obligation dominating his natural compassion and goodness. He has all of the doom of Turin without all of the melodrama.

He and Eol are two characters I wish Tolkien had written more about.

[Groin Redbeard]

++Maedhros

Despite the fact the his doom was of his own making, he is a very tragic character(as stated by Andsigil). He is by far the best of the sons of Feanor, and has a lot more meat to his backround. Glaurung is skin and bones when it comes to which character is the most interesting.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So Beleg overtook Frodo Baggins himself!

Don't look so surprised, Nogrod. Looking back, this was the deciding moment of that match (remember Frodo won by one measly vote):

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm afraid Frodo will just walk away with victory from this so I have to try and help the other side. I've nothing against Frodo, quite on the contrary, but we need some believable opposition in the form of votes to make this more interesting.

++ Beleg

Now I just have to come up with a reason...

Poor Frodo... He will be looking at you when he goes home, and there will be tears in his blue puppy eyes.

[Ilya]

Mmm. No question. ++Maedhros.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Maedros

But he should have listened to his brother (Maglor).

[Gollum the Great]

Where are the dragon-lovers?

++Glaurung

Father of Dragons.

[Morthoron]

++Glaurung

Maedhros was more handicapped by his inability to overcome his vow than the loss of his hand. Glaurung was the first great dragon, and was wonderfully evil and cunning, particularly at Nargothrond.

[Thinlómien]

++ Maedhros

He's my favourite.

[mormegil]

++ Maedhros

Glaurung couldn't even fly....seriously, how cool can a flightless dragon be...or balrog for that matter.

[the phantom]

Ooh, a tough choice here. Both of them are pretty awesome. It's a tie in my mind.

++ Maedhros

Because I like him more.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Ooh, a tough choice here. Both of them are pretty awesome. It's a tie in my mind.

Exactly my words. I could replace any of the LotR heroes with either one... well almost any.

And I'm afraid I need to draw the same conclusion as tp made.

++ Maedhros

All the left-handers unite!

But someone should really take the side of the sarcastic dragon as well.

Originally Posted by Skip

Poor Frodo... He will be looking at you when he goes home, and there will be tears in his blue puppy eyes.

Haha. Referring to Elijah Wood now are we? True, he made a lot of damage to Frodo's character in the movies, at least in what goes for taking him as a believable tragic hero who grows and changes in the process where his life takes a totally different path...

[Gollum the Great]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

++ Maedhros

All the left-handers unite!

Oh man! I like them both but if I'd remembered that I would have gone with Maedhros. You can't beat a left-hander.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

How can Maedros beat Glaurung?

Just because one cannot figure out if he is basicly a good guy that does eveil deeds or an evil guy that does good deeds, then people go on and on about the depth and diversity of the charachter.

Glaurung is amazing, he does not need wings he can put you under his spell and if he does not decide to kill you, he can trash talk you untill you do it your self.

++Glaurung the Golden

[Lalwendë]

An Elf who couldn't roll his own cigs versus a Dragon? Come on....

++Glaurung