WW: LXXXIV - Middle Earth in Fifteen Minutes

[elronds_daughter]

The dear Mod God changed it, since he himself was late the first time or two.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Admin Thread

DL is currently set to be 10 pm CST, but if this a problem for anyone please let me know as it's easily changeable on my end.

I don't recall seeing anything to the contrary in the Game Thread.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

The dear Mod God changed it, since he himself was late the first time or two.

I thought that was only for that one occasion, when he himself explicitly said it had been extended. If there was no such extension for toDay, I would think the DL is the standard time.

[elronds_daughter]

Seems so, but he's notified us of DL at 11:30 CST every Day since.

EDIT: x'ed

[Inziladun]

Well, whatever.

Like I said though, I would think that if it had been permanently changed that would have been noted somewhere.

[elronds_daughter]

Point taken.

Still, there appears to be time left for you to argue your innocence. By my count, there's 4 votes for you, 2 for Boro, and one for Lommy. And neither of us have voted yet. (Unless you did and I missed it? In which case, apologies.)

So. Convince me.

[Inziladun]

If DL has passed, we shouldn't even be talking.

I'm simply going to assume I'm dead at this point.

[elronds_daughter]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If DL has passed, we shouldn't even be talking.

I'm simply going to assume I'm dead at this point.

Well, all right.

Shasta, could you clear up this confusion about DL?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

It's been 11:30 since the game started, ever since I mentioned it.

Inzil the Wolf is dead, though.

Night 4 begins.

I dislike not having my book to write proper scenes with.

[Boromir88]

I see we've got 30 hours, alright, I may be able to pick up activity now that this week is concluding.

2 wolves left, and we've lost Galadriel, yes?

So, this one time, I might actually not vote Lommy as I'm really suspicious by the back and forth between Inzil and Nessa the previous day.

[wilwarin538]

Hmm, the way he was so sure about Inzil yesterDay, I'm not surprised he ended up being the Seer. I remember he mentioned a few times that he was sure the Seer would reveal, but I guess he decided not too. But this post of his was probably his way of getting all his information across, without actually revealing:

Originally Posted by Eomer

Wilwa - shouldn't be overlooked
Boro - quite suspicious, as usual, but not convinced
Elronhubbard - shouldn't be overlooked mk 2
Greenie - I think she's probably innocent
Inzil - obviously a wolf and must die in a gruesome fashion
Lommy - it would go against tradition to argue against her lynching
Legate - I am suspicious - reminds me of Inzi, a lot
Nessa - pure and innocent

So the only one's he's totally definite about is Nessa (innocent) and Inzil (guilty). Then there are some that he seems to feel as being guilty/innocent, but doesn't say it with the same certainty: Boro, Greenie, Lommy and Legate. Then for me and Elronhubbard he seems to just be unsure of.

So I would say that Nessa was definitely a dream of his. He wouldn't have said she was innocent so adamently if he hadn't dreamt her, knowing that if he died we'd look so closely at his supicions.

But that only covers 2 of his 3 dreams. Considering that those are the only two he's definite about, I would venture that his third dream must have been someone who was dead by yesterDay. (maybe someone should look back and see what he says about those who are dead?) I would think if his third dream was alive he would have given a definite indication like he had with Inzil and Nessa. (well at least that's what I would have done in his position, he very well could have been thinking something else)

I have an exam in the morning (probably, if the schools aren't closed from all the snow!), but after that my last one isn't for a week, so I have some spare time, so my participation this Day should be way better (more in the second half of the Day though).

[wilwarin538]

Where is everybody?

Hopefully there will be stuff here by the time I get back from my exam. It's the one day so far I've been able to participate, so there better be things for me to comment on!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I am here.

I must say I have been also thinking about Eomer's likely Seerishness earlier yesterDay, I think he was "sticking out" a lot (aside from one brief moment when I started to become unsure about it, since he did not seem to reveal, while I'd have expected him to - but even though he didn't, he still he gave us clues, I believe, in his lists).

So as for what we might get from his posts about the players' roles, I think it is obvious from his voting that he dreamed about Zil, and aside from this, I concur with what wilwa said about Nessa. The formulation "pure and innocent" is somewhat straightforward amidst all the "I think" and "maybe"s. It is quite possible that the remaining dream might have been about somebody who is already dead. Will take a look at his earlier posts quickly just to see if there isn't something that will give any confirmation...

In any case, now I think the best place to start from is to look at Inzil, if any info about a possible relationship with other players can be seen. Also, looking at the votes would be in order too. Gonna do it straightaway...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, votes yesterDay in order:

Greenie=>Boro
Boro=>Lommy
Eomer=>Inzil
Lommy=>Boro (2)
Legate=>Inzil (2)
Wilwa=>Inzil (3)
Nessa=>Inzil (4)

Did not vote: Elronhubbard, Inzil

Generally, I think the early votes do not tell us much, as they might've gone either way (unless the Wolves expected already then that Inzil is threatened and wanted to stop it by creating an opposite bandwaggon straightaway). Probably Lommy's vote and LRH's no-vote look to me probably the most suspicious right at this moment. With Lommy's vote, one could see it as a sort of attempt to create a "save Inzil" bandwaggon, of course in case that Boro is not a Wolf as well: in such a case, it would not make any sense. (But then again, I doubt Boro and Lommy would be WWs together... though huh, if it was, then it'd be really disgusting!) Wilwa's vote looks quite good, as it was in a rather decisive moment, similarly with Nessa (which was more like an almost-last nail into the coffin).

As for Elronhubbard's non-vote... What Boro said about Nessa's exchange with Zil, I could actually say the same more like about LRH, because she seemed to sort of flip-flop there. Inzil was pretty surely going for lynch at that point, but if the two of them voted for Boro, as I believe the last one voted is lynched, then Inzil could actually still have lived. I could very well imagine the sort of "final flip-flopping" being a sort of inner dialogue of two Wolves (and especially if I imagine LRH as a newbie-Wolf) "so should I try to save you or not?" At that point, voting Inzil would not probably have given a Wolf-on-Wolf vote much more credibility anyway, so can it be that Elro-wolfwould just decide not to vote at all?

Of course, that's one possibility. If Boro, the second person with most votes, was a Wolf as well, then it would definitely not make sense for the two to even think about the chance of saving Inzil by instead sacrificing him (therefore also, I am led to believe that if either Boro or LRH are Wolves, then the other isn't).

[elronds_daughter]

I see how you'd find me worrisome, Legate, but the reason for my non-vote was simply the confusion that Inzil raised about DL. I had hoped Shasta would be able to clear up the confusion before DL...but 'twas not to be.

I am perhaps too forgiving - I just wanted to give Zil a chance to redeem himself, but since he gave up so easily...I considered just voting for him anyway, without letting him give a proper defense, but I was exhausted that night and fell asleep before I could (sorry...11:30 for Shasta is half-past midnight for me...I think I may be getting too old for late nights).

Anyway.

Going by what Eomer said, I think Nessa's all right. Apart from the unfortunate Nerwen vote, she hasn't done anything really suspect (unless I've overlooked something).

I'm not quite sure about anyone else yet.

[elronds_daughter]

Still not entirely sure about anyone other than Nessa, but the fact that Legate is worried about my behavior makes me think he could be innocent.

[A Little Green]

Summarising my opinions on people. I'm going to leave Nessa out - if she's a wolf, I'm going to deep-fry both her and Eomer.

Wilwa:
Day 1: mostly about tactics, random vote for Lottie
Day 2: agrees with the Hunter-lynch plan, votes Lottie
Day 3: calculating the reveal plan (whether or not it's smart for the Seer/Ranger to reveal. Votes:

Originally Posted by Wilwa

I've skimmed through people's reasoning for suspecting Boro and Inzil, and the reasons make sense to me, so I'll go for one of them (admittedly I haven't read things through very thoroughly):

++Inzil

Conclusion: most likely innocent - I have a hard time seeing a wolf making that vote. Boro and Inzil were in a draw at that point. Would a Wolwilwa have sacrificed a fellow that way?

[A Little Green]

Elra:
Day 1: half-serious self-defence, votes Nerwen

She seems shady(est) to me at the moment. (Terribly sorry if I'm wrong.)

Day 2: Suspects Legate, then backs off:

I concur, Boro. Lommy and Legate are both looking a bit unfriendly to me at the moment... Legate mostly because of the completely fallible logic in trying to reason out why Sally got dead. Those kinds of reverse-psychology leaps are just plain weird. But, I may be reading too much into it. (Especially since Lommy herself pointed out how little sense Legate was making.)

But it's still entirely possible that I'm wrong on both accounts.

Noted. Like I said, I'm potentially wrong on both accounts... Legate's logic just seemed odd to me. But maybe it wasn't a bad odd and my interpretation is off.

Sees Nog's point about the blind agreement on trusting Hunter-Lottie. Votes Lottie anyway.

Day 3: agrees with Eomer about Inzil being fishy.

Greenie is very quick to vote for Boro. "Hrmmmmm" is all I have to say about that.

I was quick because, like I think I explained yesterDay, I was only there for less than an hour. I had to be quick. As for why I voted for Boro - a part of it, I admit, was that I thought Lommy sounded Seerish. (After rereading her I came to the conclusion that she definitely wasn't one, already before Eomer was killed.)

Point taken.

Still, there appears to be time left for you to argue your innocence. By my count, there's 4 votes for you, 2 for Boro, and one for Lommy. And neither of us have voted yet. (Unless you did and I missed it? In which case, apologies.)

So. Convince me.

I'm not sure Inzil's fellow would say this. She didn't vote, and explained it toDay.

Conclusion: not sure if a new wolf would jump on a fellow before it was evident he was going down – unless so instructed by fellows. In general she's quick to back off (all the "I might be wrong"'s), quick to self-defend. Could be just newness though.

[Thinlómien]

Hi everybody I'm in the middle of writing a post but I wanted to post this meanwhile because I'm thinking we are lacking something important...

The dead
Nerwen (ordo) - lynched on Day1
Sally (ordo) - killed on Night2
Lottie (hunter) - lynched on Day2
Nogrod (ordo) - taken by the hunter on Day2
Zil (wolf) - lynched on Day3
Eomer (seer) - killed on Night4

The living
Wilwa
Boro
Elronhubbard
Greenie
Lommy
Legate
Nessa

So we have 7 people left, 3 ordos, 2 wolves and the ranger and the hunter.

[Thinlómien]

'K... not really surprised to find out that Eomer was the seer. Too bad to see him go. It actually even crossed my mind at some point yesterDay, the way he talked about Zil. But I was far from sure, so I didn't want to jump on the Zil-wagon based on a vague seer suspect since I didn't have a clear opinion on Zil himself and I also thought Eomer would reveal if he really was the seer so there'd be enough votes for Zil if he really was a dreamed wolf. But hey, we got one wolf, which is great. Too bad it just rings a bit false to my own ear to be happy about that since I still feel like we're losing the game with 5 against 2 whose identities could be almost anything.

I'm surprised how people are kind of downplaying Eomer's dreams. People seem to agree that he dreamt Nessa, but I also think he might well have dreamt Legate of Amon Wolf or A Little Ordo. I need to check his posts to make a theory I can believe in, but Wilwa and Legate's easy acceptance that the third seer dream was lost smells fishy to me.

I think somebody should go through Zil's posts and others' posts about him. I won't have time in operations like that, like I said before joining. However, if nobody else does it, I think I'm going to do it and take the time from my sleep or something, since it's pretty vital.

So, up next:
- a list to help me figure out what I think about people
- checking Eomer's posts (I'm glad he writes no novels!)


edit: xed with Greenie and myself

[A Little Green]

Lommy:

Day 1:

The Heir - well nothing much to speculate about.

Had to quote this, I found it so cute. After that, she tests Elra (wants to find out if she'd make a ”newbie wolf mistake”) and speculates about the Heir. She was the one to start actively pushing the village to speak sense. Makes a list:

Wilwa - under the reindeer. Quite honestly no idea but more positive than negative vibes, maybe.
Lottie - active and helpful but maybe even too nice as Nog said.
Boro - I don't remember anything he said except that he suspects me for some vague reasons. No good, Mr88, my bororadar doesn't flash innocent - but not guilty either, given your inactivity this far.
Sally - hasn't been around, or...?
Nerwen - weird and overtly bantery and slightly aggressive. Err???
Elronhubbard - kind of touchy, but maybe we should give her the newbie pass.
Eomer - sneaky but maybe more innocent than guilty.
Greenie - no read. Seems slightly confused but eager to make a point.
Inzil - funny (in the ordinary sense of the word). But that's it, mostly.
Nogrod - philosophering all around in a slightly artificial manner. Makes me raise my eyebrows a bit.
Legate - philosophering around in sort of "I have already given up" manner. Not sure what to make of it.
Nessa - chirpy. Sort of tries to make people like her? Anyway I'd be sad to see her go before I have had enough time to study her and save the data in my werewolf lorebook for next time we play together.

She votes for Nerwen, adding that she can't remember when she's last given such flimsy reasons for a vote:

Has been very weird and slightly unconstructive.

Day 2: questions Legate's logic, says we should start hunting wolves; questions the sense in lynching Nerwen on Day 1, suspects Inzil and Nog:

Ps. Currently suspecting Zil (too happy, for example: "I wonder if an 13-way tie has ever happened before?") and Nog (somehow artificial, can't pharse it better).

After this, there's suddenly this:

Beep beep beep! Boromir88 is a wolf let's lynch him. Honestly, this is not a joke. He is just false. I admit part of my reason to think him weird is that he is not around as much as normal, but what he says seems weird. He is non-committal and doesn't give me the good solid honest Boro (who might be annoyingly tricksy but who's still always nice) feeling. He just seems off. And no, this is not knee jerk suspicion, although 1) his suspicion seems weird and 2) I'd be tempted to say he's a wolf and anxious to see me go because I have scared him enough by boasting about my infallible bororadar. (Which is not btw infallible but rather good! I tend to figure him out but at times I'm unsure and thenm it can go either way.)

Another list:

Wilwa - quiet, and nicely under the radar.
Lottie - is most probably <3
Boro - see what I said earlier. My top suspect atm.
Elronhubbard - slightly weird, touchy and making kind of eyebrow-raising choices. Then again, didn't we all do that first time? Difficult.
Eomer - kind of like him and his logic. I tend to suspect him too easily so for now I'm just ignoring his style.
Greenie - mostly seems like her busy and uninvolved ordo self who nevertheless brings up good points.
Inzil - seems more reliable toDay, and not only because I agreed with him about the hunter issue.
Nogrod - slightly difficult to read. I wonder if he's evil or if we just disagree. Wondering if he'd known that any ordo can be the heir if he was one himself.
Legate - difficult again. Leaning innocent, but also kind of under the radar.
Nessa - umm... no idea to be honest.

She votes Hunter-Lottie, would like her to hunt Boro.

Day 3:

can somebody count if toDay would be a Day for reveals? If both seer and ranger revealed themselves and their information, we could have 3-6 known roles. Of course there is the danger of false reveals, somebody should also count if we can afford it.

Will be back to see what happens! Exciting.

Not sure if a wolf would have brought that up. That quote is also a part of why I thought she might be the Seer (I didn't, in my hurry, notice that her conviction of Boro's wolvery didn't appear right from the beginning of the Day, as it probably would have had she been the Seer). Continues the Boro-crusade. Votes Boro.

However, I wouldn't be too sad to find Zil dead after toDay either. Don't really have time to explain, but as pointed out, he is quite fishy and false-seeming.

Would you have time to explain now?

Conclusion: Her sudden jump on Boro is similar to what I remember an innocent Lommy doing before (on Mac, if I remember correctly). If she's a wolf, hats off for the acting. Her flip-flopping on Inzilwolf makes me raise my eyebrows though. During Day 2 she goes from suspecting him to finding him more reliable, then on Day 3 she wouldn't be sad to see him dead because he's "quite fishy and false-seeming".


EDIT: x-ed with 2x Lommy (talk about the devil!) - btw how can you x-post with yourself?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lomzy

I'm surprised how people are kind of downplaying Eomer's dreams. People seem to agree that he dreamt Nessa, but I also think he might well have dreamt Legate of Amon Wolf or A Little Ordo. I need to check his posts to make a theory I can believe in, but Wilwa and Legate's easy acceptance that the third seer dream was lost smells fishy to me.

I don't think it probable that he dreamed a Legwolf. It would have been awful stupid for a Seer who has dreamed two wolves out of three to not come into the open.

[Thinlómien]

Day1
The only one he mentions is Legate whom he votes. His comments are contradictory. ("Gotta kill someone, right? Bloodlust to sate, and all that." and "I simply see more of a wolvish look in his posts. Nothing substantial, though. Or maybe I'm subconsciously detecting a Hunter-vibe in him.")

Day2

However, they definitely want to kill the Seer, even though another will appear, because otherwise - as has happened - our seer has info on (probably) two people. Just hope dreams weren't spent on Nerwen or Sally.

The phrasing makes me quite confident he didn't dream Nerwen or Sally.

Loslote, I am most happy to assume and believe that our wonderful and clever Hunter is going to choose correctly.

That was before she came out. Now, I wonder if this means he dreamt her. Looks a little like he knew her role, whether by dreaming or guessing, that we can't know... Although later he says:

That's why we might as well allow the Hunter a free kill; it's as likely to be accurate as any village lynch - perhaps more so as it's uninfluenced by wolves. Let's just get this heir-business over with! If the Hunter's still around, that is. :/

I would be inclined to think he wouldn't say that if he knew it was Lottie - but again the other hand, when Eomer posted this, Lottie hadn't been around for three hours, but then again, she hadn't voted and he should have thought about her being American ie around later. Gah? See how this continues...

Wilwa - sweet and innocent, seemingly designed to trick me
Lottie - willing to believe she's our hunter
Boro - very hard to tell due to lack of time - I give a pass for now
Elronhubbard - she seems fishy but it's all mysterious with her
Greenie - I always think she's evil but I guess it's possible she's not a wolf
Inzil - yeah, um, tricksssy... I'll let the Hunter decide on him
Nogrod - I've played with Nogrod many times, and he seems innocent to me
Lommy - I've played with Lommy many times and I always want to kill her
Legate - really unsure about him, could go either way
Nessa - I think she could be evil and wolvish

Most interesting, eh? Nothing very clear, except that Nessa clearly was dreamt on Night3. That means he must have dreamt Zil earlier and just kept quiet about it. This makes me think he probably didn't dream another wolf (Legate) because he would've been crazy if he had had two wolves under his belt and kept hiding and not even leaving clear hints about them. I wonder who his other earlier dream was, though. Greenie? Nogrod? The famous Lottie?

Day3

Boro's an interesting one, as is Legate. I wouldn't worry about Nessa, though.

Further proof he didn't dream Legatewolf. Makes me think he is quite a gambler though (see his Day1 vote).

It's my belief that yesterday was close to perfection for the villagers. I'm very glad this Heir business is out of the way.

Close to perfection? Does this mean almost perfect, like nothing went wrong? Or almost perfect in that we lost two a seer-dreamed innocent? Confused.

I tend to agree, Legate, but this happens sometimes. I'm pretty suspicious of you, by the way. But there's only one person whom we should lynch today and I've named him already, former packmate of mine - I wish Loslote had kept her sight on you!

Again, his suspicion of Legate most probably wasn't dream-based.

Wilwa - shouldn't be overlooked
Boro - quite suspicious, as usual, but not convinced
Elronhubbard - shouldn't be overlooked mk 2
Greenie - I think she's probably innocent
Inzil - obviously a wolf and must die in a gruesome fashion
Lommy - it would go against tradition to argue against her lynching
Legate - I am suspicious - reminds me of Inzi, a lot
Nessa - pure and innocent

So, like I've said, after Nessa the most probable seer dreams would be Greenie or Legate. However, I think I've basically proved it's impossible he dreamt Legate, so I'm willing to give that up. Greenie? Not sure. Compared to what he says about Nessa, though, it looks so unsure that it makes me doubtful of his dreaming her. And of all the phrasings, he chose "I think" which implies at rationality, not divine knowledge.

All I can really think of is: don't waste today's lynch. Kill Inziladun. He should have went yesterday instead of Nogrod.

A subtle hint that he had dreamt Nogrod?


Conclusions:
Night1 dream: Nogrod (had he dreamt a wolf, I think he'd have revealed given that he suggested a seer reveal and lynch or at least given a hint in case he took the knwledge to the grave with himself)
Night2 dream: Zil (ha! this makes sense now, all of it. Didn't bring the suspicion up too poiuntedly because wanted to lynch the hunter and have her take him down with herself.)
Night3 dream: Nessa (the obvious change of opinion and the phrasings, need I say more?)


edit: xed with Greenie

[wilwarin538]

Alright, I'm back (and the exam went well), so I'll go through both Eomer and Inzil's post now.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I don't think it probable that he dreamed a Legwolf. It would have been awful stupid for a Seer who has dreamed two wolves out of three to not come into the open.

Eomer is one of the few players I could see gambling that. But no need to speculate about that anymore...

edit: xed with Wilwa

[Thinlómien]

Wilwa - difficult. Not around much, kind of gives innocent vibes but then again slips under the radar.

Boro - still suspicious of him. Wondering, though. I'm kind of torn: my gut-feeling definitely does not say he's innocent, unlike most times when he is. On the other hand, he's been around so little and focused his energy on attacking me, so to be fair I think that could have blurred my perception on him. On the third hand () I think it is fairly suspicious he uses all his energy on attacking me. It wouldn't be so bad if he had good reasons, but because his reasons are pretty much grasping at straws, I think it's rather eyebrow-raising worthy that he uses his limited time only for talking about me (although maybe I should just be flattered ). All in all, 2/3 suspicion, 1/3 confusion.

Elronhubbard - hmm. Like Greenie said, she is quite quick to take back her words and rather fishy. On the other hand, she's new. Honestly no idea but I'd be still kind of be willing to give her the benefit of doubt.

Greenie - almost exactly like Wilwa. Curious about her summarising project though - it's something that takes a lot of time and I wonder if she'd bother doing it if she was a wolf. On the other hand, she could be a wolf looking for logical suspects. Not too worried about her though, especially as she did not suspect Nogrod which is something she'd probably have done as a wolf because she can always get away with that as it's a tradition.

Legate - he's been slipping under my radar for most of the game. He doesn't strike me as particularily furry but he hardly ever does even if he is a wolf. He has been considering me innocent a lot, which kind of makes me suspicious: I think he knows I'm bad at suspecting people who strongly imply they think I'm innocent. Garr. I should definitely pay more attention to him.

Nessa - our known innocent, I think. Glad to be able to discount somebody.

So:

innocent
Nessa

likely innocent
Greenie
Wilwa

unsure
Ronnie
Legate

suspicious
Boro

I'm waiting for someone to go through people's relations with Inzil for me, it will undoubtedly alter the situation somehow. If there's no incirminating evidence, though, I think I'm (again) going for Boro toDay too because he's the best suspect I have atm.

Off now for a while because I have an essay to write. Will be back.

[A Little Green]

Aand going on..

Legsy
Day 1: Expresses dismay over the silence, makes a slightly pointless list:

Wilwa - no info
Lottie - one remark about possible relations of Inzil and LRH, seeming sort of innocent-ish to me, but nothing much in the end, really
Boro - no info
Sally - no info
Nerwen - a bit of chatter here and there, but nothing of substance. Possibly a bit of pressing on the LRH thing, but it seems more like she considered it fun all the time...
Elronhubbard - actually funny enough, being a newbie but posting basically the most. In any case, gets a newbie pass today, but even otherwise does not seem any suspicious straightaway.
Eomer - nothing much, a few remarks. If I was supposed to say from whom I am getting bad vibes, it is him, but it is simply the feeling and nothing more - so that means nothing.
Greenie - basically nothing
Inzil - attempt to engage in dialogue, but not really standing out in one way or another
Nogrod - no info
Lommy - tries to be active, in contrary to many others, and at least gives some opinions and such. I'd grant her pass just for that.
Legate - that's me
Nessa - nothing

He then debates the possibility of voting randomly. This following one I found rather interesting:

Myself, I'd at least prefer keeping the Heir as a "backup", like I said before, in case we managed to lynch a Gifted toDay, or even if we e.g. lynched an ordo and the WWs killed a Gifted at Night (which is not so unlikely scenario to happen, I think). Of course, like Lommy said, if we really lynched e.g. a Hunter now, we'd be sure that the Wolves don't use the Heir to their advantage. But then again, imagine if we lynch a Hunter and he kills the Seer...

I'm not saying an innocent Legate couldn't have said this, but I can't help thinking that a wolf would find this attitude advantageous.

I am a bit uncomfortable perhaps with Boro, because he wants to lynch Lommy, who seems sensible to me. But that's like the best shot I have.

Votes Boro, with a cryptic addition:

Good Night. Sleeping village, cockerel's cry, soft wind blowing in the trees, peace of mind, feel at ease...

Day 2: Weird theories on the Sally kill; I think these have been discussed enough.

Hey, certainly not that! I say that's really the worst thing we could do. If we do this, and the WWs do this, and we do this, and the WWs do this, then the WWs eventually win. Like, imagine the newspaper headlines: "Village lost by intentionally lynching only ordos!" Honestly!!!

<3. That's all.

Wilwa - not really so much to go with, but when she is around, at least speaks, does not set off any alarms
Lottie - seems quite thoughtful, also does not really set off any alarms
Boro - okay, his vote today was rather weird, but I am not really going to judge him based on that... I think it'd be nice to see more from him, and possibly our village'd have needed his sort of decisive spirit in matters such as "lynch-or-not-to-lynch-whomever"...
Elronhubbard - became a bit more active at some point, not bad, I think there was something a bit curious about some of her posts, but nothing really "big"
Eomer - looks active to me, possibly with somewhat daring behavior, could be either, but does not really make me think him any highly suspicious
Greenie - seems sort of like Alice in the Wonderland, either confused, or acting it very well. It could be many of the under-the-rader-Greenwolves, but there's no real other evidence for that.
Inzil - contributive, but some of his posts especially earlier toDay made me think of him as if he assumed the role of "Mr.Agreeable" here, which might be a smoothy-Wolfdoing
Nogrod - I don't know what to think of him, on one hand, he seems active, but more strongly, he brings some rather dangerous suggestions which would, in my opinion, benefit only the WWs if being advocated - on the other hand, he is sometimes advocating things which are just confused-seeming (lynching the Heir), which would point more to innocence; but overall I am worried about him probably more than less
Lommy - I don't see anything suspicious about her
Nessa - has some interesting points. For some reason though, I think when reading her posts, I keep mixing her up with LRH (sorry both), I think one "homework" for me is to go through the posts of them both carefully to make a really proper opinion...

The list at least Eomer and I found eyebrow-raising. Legate is always wishy-washy, but in this particular list it looks calculated.
He then says he would likely go for Nog, votes Hunter-Lottie.

Day 3:

Hey, so at least something positive! I guess we could sort of take it the way that this compensates well for the loss of Nog yesterDay. Still, I think whatever the outcome of yesterDay's lynch was, at least we got the business with the Heir done. Now we still need to catch our first Wolf, but now at least we can start playing "properly", like not thinking about whether or not to lynch Wolves or whatnot...

As for the Aragorn-action, definitely it bought us more time. Whether it was a coincidence or not that somebody was targeted and protected, I think might be shown, but after reading this and the last bit of yesterDay, I actually have a certain suspicion now.

In any case, I hope toDay is going to be successful - we definitely should not go to any kind of inactivity, quite the opposite, as now we finally can do something. I am going to review some things and will be around from time to time during the day...

The underlined part doesn't strike me as something a wolf would come up with. Otherwise, I don't like the tone of this post. He then analyses Elra and Nessa without concluding much. Suspects Zil. Finds the Boro-Lommy exchange curious, with Lommy looking innocent and Boro unsure. Voting options Boro and Inzil.

Of my two options:

Inzil: basically the thing about being "too smooth" at some points. Okay, if you read his posts, he actually seems sensible, but question is more about whether he is being sensible, as in: trying to help, or if it is simply calculated. And I can well imagine a Inzilwolf acting that way...

Boro: has an ongoing crusade against Lommy who, in my opinion, looks innocent; moreover, he sort of keeps bringing it back urgently... otherwise, not really around. In any case, he is not being particularly "helpful", a questionmark... now I noticed he said this thing where he basically says he does not mind himself being lynched, which at least puts one doubt I had about him away, however on the other hand, it raises the question whether he would say that as a Wolf, to offer himself like that... though on the other hand, the village is not anymore in the position to lynch innocents, so it does not really make much sense for the ordos to do this, and possibly Wolf might use it as a cover.

In any case, I don't really want to vote any of the others apart from these two right now and in any case, spreading the votes any more does not make any sense, especially in these numbers, and I am not going to vote for Lommy.

He ends up voting Inzil, bringing him to a tie with Boro.

Conclusion: Well, he's wishy-washy, says a lot without concluding much. He's always more or less that way, but this time I'm debating if it's calculated. His vote for Inzil was given at a pretty crucial moment though, not the most likely timing for a wolf-on-wolf vote unless it was planned beforehand. In sum I'm not sure about Legate, no precious, not sure at all.


EDIT: x-ed with a load of Lommies and a Wilwa

[wilwarin538]

For both I just looked at what they said about other people, looking at what they said about game mechanics is kind of pointless.


Inzil
#29: says Lottie’s meta-reasoning about him and ED not being packmates makes her look innocent, and that ED looks a bit defensive but gets a newbie pass

#103: considers voting Nog or Nerwen, and trusts Lommy

#108: thinks Lottie is likely to be innocent, votes Nerwen, restates that Lommy looks good

#270: questions Nessa’s reasoning

So: he doesn't really say much about people or interact with many. Most of the time he just talked about the Heir business. He mentions that he trusts Lommy more than once, so I would say that makes her look better (he wouldn't be that obvious if she was a wolf). Also points out things about Lottie that he trusts, but not in the same way as he did Lommy.

~*~*~*~*~*~

Eomer

#73: votes Legate, saying “gotta kill someone, right?”

#78: says about Legate: “I simply see more of a wolvish look in his posts. Nothing substantial, though. Or maybe I'm subconsciously detecting a Hunter-vibe in him.”

(day 2)
#129: says this about the wolves: “they definitely want to kill the Seer, even though another will appear, because otherwise - as has happened - our seer has info on (probably) two people. Just hope dreams weren't spent on Nerwen or Sally”

#197: says a list of Legate’s seems a bit off

#208: a list:
Wilwa - sweet and innocent, seemingly designed to trick me
Lottie - willing to believe she's our hunter
Boro - very hard to tell due to lack of time - I give a pass for now
Elronhubbard - she seems fishy but it's all mysterious with her
Greenie - I always think she's evil but I guess it's possible she's not a wolf
Inzil - yeah, um, tricksssy... I'll let the Hunter decide on him
Nogrod - I've played with Nogrod many times, and he seems innocent to me
Lommy - I've played with Lommy many times and I always want to kill her
Legate - really unsure about him, could go either way
Nessa - I think she could be evil and wolvish

(day 3)
#236: not surprised by the Ranger save

#241: says “Boro’s an interesting one, as is Legate. I wouldn’t worry about Nessa, though.”

#253: says he’d be surprised if it hadn’t been the Seer who was protected

#255: says he’s suspicious of Legate, but that there’s only one person we should lynch today (referring to Inzil)

#259: posts the list that I quoted earlier

So: I'm still rather surprised he didn't reveal yesterDay, because he said more than once he was expecting someone too. He seemed to think that he was the wolve's target and had been protected, so that would lead me to think that he had said something the Day before that he felt made him look Seerish. I would guess that it's because in that first list he points some suspicions at Inzil (so he probably dreamt him one of the first two Nights). In that same list he is really unsure of Nessa, but then the following Day is sure of her innocence, so it looks like she was his Night 3 dream. I'm not sure who his third dream would have been. He is fairly consistently suspicious of Legate, but the way he said yesterDay that "there's only one person we should lynch today" makes me think he didn't dream Legate as a wolf, or else he would have gone after him the same way, and obviously didn't dream Legate as innocent or else he wouldn't be suspicious of him at all. Kind of a similar situation to Boro. I doubt one of them was his 3rd dream.

I just scrolled down and realised Lommy's already done this , and come to similar conclusions. I suppose Nog was a possible Night 1 dream, but it doesn't seem all that clear, obviously not a wolf or else he would have said more about it. Maybe another Gifted, didn't want to give them away? It's really hard to say.

edit: x'ed with Greenie

[A Little Green]

Right - I just figured out it's midnight soon so I'd better vote soon and go to sleep. The thing is, after a bit of analysis I think everyone could be a wolf or could not. I didn't have notes on Boro because I had already gone through him yesterDay. I'd like a new look though, might do that if I'm not feeling sleepy. For now I don't trust him.

I will definitely not vote Nessa the as-good-as-known innocent, probably not Wilwa either. Which leaves me with Boro, Hubbard, Lommy and Legate. I would be fine with any of these actually. Least maybe Lommy.

[Nessa Telrunya]

Oh wow, a lot's happened. We lost a seer and killed a wolf, so it's sort of a double-edged sword.

I am, however, glad to have my innocence reassured.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

I see how you'd find me worrisome, Legate, but the reason for my non-vote was simply the confusion that Inzil raised about DL. I had hoped Shasta would be able to clear up the confusion before DL...but 'twas not to be.

I am perhaps too forgiving - I just wanted to give Zil a chance to redeem himself, but since he gave up so easily...I considered just voting for him anyway, without letting him give a proper defense, but I was exhausted that night and fell asleep before I could (sorry...11:30 for Shasta is half-past midnight for me...I think I may be getting too old for late nights).

Noted, but this is of course as well what a Wolf might have said too... the point is mainly that there was this sort of "debate" with Zil in the first place. Non-votes can of course happen, but my point was that if I look at the votes, yours (resp. your non-vote) is among the most suspicious.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

That was before she came out. Now, I wonder if this means he dreamt her.

Personally I would say so. If he addresses Lottie like this, then why would he say that if he didn't think she has anything to do with the Hunter. Of course, he might have guessed it, and not dreamed of her, but it would make a lot of sense that way, I think.

The possibility of dreaming about Nogrod is also there, although it seems that this one is far more likely, given the above.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Close to perfection? Does this mean almost perfect, like nothing went wrong? Or almost perfect in that we lost two a seer-dreamed innocent? Confused.

I would imagine simply the fact that he means that no Wolf was killed by the Hunter. And, if it was two seer-dreamed innocents, then you mean that he would have dreamed about Nog and Lottie (and thus Inzil the other Night, and no Nessa?). That sounds rather awkward to say that...

Now I want to really go through Inzil's posts myself, so will be back in a minute with that... or I hope it will be "minute"...

EDIT: x-ed with Nessa

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate

And, if it was two seer-dreamed innocents, then you mean that he would have dreamed about Nog and Lottie (and thus Inzil the other Night, and no Nessa?). That sounds rather awkward to say that...

*facepalms* I originally wrote "two seer-dreamed innocents", then realised Eomer had only three dreams not four so I made a mistake so I wanted to edit it to "a seer-dreamed innocent" but somehow I managed to post it as "two a seer-dreamed innocent" which doesn't mean anything.

[A Little Green]

Hmm, I think I'm going to go for

++ Boro

I think that's my best bet toDay. Good night.

[Thinlómien]

1. Greenie -> Boro
"So, looks like it's going to be Boro or Legate for me toDay. I'm rather torn right now - I suspect Legate a bit more, but I might feel better voting Boro since I have actually checked his posts." ToDay she also said she thought I was the seer and I had dreamt a Borowolf.

2. Boro -> Lommy
"I still say Lommy very very over-reacting to my vote yesterday."

3. Eomer -> Zil

4. Lommy -> Boro (2)
"Greenie said Boro is fishy 'cos he suspects me everyday but for a different reason. And this Day kind of proves the point! I think Boro is overreacting, not me. Feeling threatened, eh?"

5. Legate -> Zil (2)
"Okay, I think from my part, Boro can wait."

6. Wilwa -> Zil (3) xed with Legate
"I've skimmed through people's reasoning for suspecting Boro and Inzil, and the reasons make sense to me, so I'll go for one of them (admittedly I haven't read things through very thoroughly)"

7. Nessa -> Zil (4)

Comments to follow...


edit: xed with Greenie

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so Inzil actually really didn't say much anything about anybody. During the first Day, he hardly mentioned any name at all, and even generally, he mostly just quoted somebody, commented on it, and moved on... All people he voted are dead too, so nothing to gain from that either.

If there ever was anything, he mentioned trusting Lommy:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Like I said, I think Lommy looks fairly innocent, and there's the added appeal of not adding another name to the mix.

That once again would make me think her more innocent, unless it is some sort of double-bluff, which however would be rather weird (given that she's the only one person he basically addressed before his dismissal was getting near). After he started to get the lead in the lynch, he started to question everybody who voted him or said they suspect him (Eomer, Nessa, me, wilwa), saying that he wants to see "evidence".

To Nessa, he said:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That you're at worst a wolf, and at best an innocent latching onto a flimsy excuse to vote someone.

But since she is, in the light of what Eomer had left, most probably innocent, neither of this has any importance for us...

Then he was around for a while yet, and talking with LRH, which was mostly just about DL, and anyway with very little initiative on his part; his words end by

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If DL has passed, we shouldn't even be talking.

I'm simply going to assume I'm dead at this point.

So all in all, he was very "unsocial"... the main argument for me would be the bit for Lommy's innocence, there's basically nothing more.

Okay, eurgh, it's getting rather late here... I am probably going to think about my vote toDay.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, so it comes down to wondering if the wolves had any reason to go w-on-w yesterDay.

It depends a lot on if they realised Eomer was the seer. Given that they knew Zil's guilt and Eomer was being rather adamant, I think it's likely.

So they could have thought that once they kill Eomer, Zil will be dead anyway so they wouldn't have shied away from taking part in his lynch.

On the other hand 1) they could have delayed Zil's death by voting someone else (but would they have looked bad?) and 2) they could not have been sure about Eomer's role and I think they'd have wanted to avoid overreacting because the numbers were getting advantageous for them (them being 3/8).

So I end up with the amazing conclusion that they could either have gone wolf-on-wolf or not.

Voted someone else than Zil: Greenie, Boro, me
Voted Zil: Legate, Wilwa
Didn't vote: Elron

And there's the interesting thing that Legate and Wilwa xposted, which gives their votes equal suspiciousness/innocence status, whatever it is. I think it's incredibly funny if they are the two wolves.

Kind of in summary, Greenie and me voted someone who was suspected who was not Zil (although he was suspected mostly by the two of us ). Boro voted someone who wasn't generally suspected (me), so kind of throwaway. Legate and Wilwa both thought they'd level Zil with Boro, but together they actually put him on the lead.

Try to conclude anything from that! *deep sigh* Kind of thinking it unlikely both Legate and Wilwa are wolves. Legate's vote looks better with him giving up the option of Boro and Wilwa looks better in general.

I'd hate to suspect Greenie, especially with her me-seer theory because it sounds quite innocent.

And if this leads me to suspect Boro and Elron I hate it because they seem like the "easiest suspects" for me. I'm pretty sure one of Wilwa/Legate/Greenie is a wolf, but not sure which one. And one is Boro/Elron, leaning heavily on Boro. Although I have to say I'll regret it if we lynch him and I turn out to be wrong because that would mean I've lost my touch when it comes to figuring him out. On the other hand, I'll probably be even more sorry if we don't lynch him and he wins as a wolf.

So, most likelily voting Boro toDay unless something drastic happens. (Btw I'm pretty sure Greenie is innocent if Boro is guilty.)


edit: xed with Legz

[Thinlómien]

(forgot I had something to reply to)

Originally Posted by Greenie

Would you have time to explain now?

To be honest, it wasn't about time. It was about me wondering if Eomer was the seer who had dreamt Zil.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Her sudden jump on Boro is similar to what I remember an innocent Lommy doing before (on Mac, if I remember correctly).

Oh that was a dreadful game... such an epic fail from my part. (For those who don't know or remember, it was Sally's game, I was the ranger and convinced Mac was guilty. I was right about him being a wolf, but he managed to get me lynched by revealing as the ranger and I was too proud to counter-reveal... oh dear.) But anyway the point was, I was right that time. Trust my innocent hunches.

[Thinlómien]

++Boro

1) He is suspicious. Like I said, he doesn't have the honest air he normally does when innocent. He also concentrates 90% on one person (me) which is the kind of narrow-mindedness an innocent simply can't afford. Plus, he is very edgy and seems more focused on that I am suspicious more than why I am suspicious.

2) I could concentrate on other people better if he was dead. Now I'm kind of happy with my current lack of suspects because I'm always thinking "oh but I'm quite sure Boro's a wolf, I'm not so clueless, it's ok to be unsure about others". And I'd never ever forgive myself if I let him go at this point and he was a wolf and won the game.

That's it from me for toDay. Although the DL is at an almost tolerable hour this time (9.30 am my time) I know it's not realistic to think that I'd get up earlier to play ww as I have to leave from home around the DL, especially as it's already past 1 now. So good night!

PS. I just realised I might sound hypocritical when I blame Boro for narrow-mindedness ill-suited for an innocent, but if you go through my posts, you will realise I have really suspected other people a lot (although Boro the most) while he has hardly mentioned anyone else than me as suspicious...

[elronds_daughter]

Right. Now that I've read everything up to this point, and since I don't have time to draw enough of my own conclusions... Everyone seems pretty sure that a wolf is either Boro or me, and I know it's not me. So:

++ Boro

Sorry to vote and run (and for the relative lack of posting toDay), but I have a ridiculously difficult exam to take in the morning that I must start cramming for now. I hate finals week.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, as for vote:

Nessa is a dreamed innocent. Lommy to me looks more innocent than not, I am certainly not going to vote her on any experimental basis, also because we are, even though we lynched a Wolf, still rather low in numbers. Similarly with Wilwaand Greenie. Wilwa's vote for Inzil makes her look good, and with Greenie, I don't have any strong reason for suspicion either.

It comes down to either Boro or LRH. I am really wondering about the possibility of LRH being a newbie Wolf with Inzil. I would possibly prefer her right now, although on the other hand that would mean letting Boro escape the noose once again, and of course it would be brilliant to find he was a Wolf only after doing that for several days. Since I believe there was already one vote cast for Boro, and not sure how people think about LRH, it might be just logical to simply vote Boro. The question is, though, after he is lynched and if he is found guilty, who is the other Wolf. Greenie? Wilwa (meaning Wolf-on-Wolf vote yesterDay)? Lommy? (meaning ridiculous Wolf-on-Wolf campaign all the time? I'd find that really ridiculous) Because there is the thing that I find it unlikely, like I have said earlier, that Boro and LRH would be Wolves together.

But truth is, Boro remains an enigma, and I concur with what's been said that keeping him around still keeps the questionmark hovering over village.

I'll go brush my teeth or something and decide.

EDIT: crossposted with Lommy and LRH! Okay...