T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Brinniel]

Well, I really can't see that seer comment being anything serious. It looks more like another Rikae/Mac joke. But I'm finding everyone's reactions to the comment to be very odd.

Originally Posted by Fea

I had nothing better to do than pretend she was serious and see what I could dig up with that assumption.

I can't see what kind of benefit comes from pretending such a thing. It just causes distractions.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mac

Rikae is most probably joking because nobody's paying attention to her.

WHAT?!? What kind of explanation is that?? And Mac, that's the second wolf slip from you, so I'm really baffled. "Is most probably joking"? Mac, if you were innocent, you'd know she was joking... Ok, granted, you make an addition about Ferny, but all in all, that was awfully carelessly wolvishly phrased.

Whether Rikae is joking or not (or actually even if my horrid scenario is true), I think lynching Mac wouldn't be a bad option.


edit: xed with Brinn

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Beregond: How many nicknames does this poor guy have? I see some newbie-ish behaviour, but overall I think he's doing well for his first game. And I certainly won't underestimate the possibility of a newbie being a wraith.

I've lost count. Thank you! I feel terribly newbie-ish.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Rikae is most probably joking because nobody's paying attention to her. Or maybe she's Bill, but I don't think so. It might be interesting to see the reactions to her claim, just as long as the real seer doesn't lose his nerves - or people get the idea to trust her and lynch me!

I would, of course, expect you to deny the validity of it, were you a wraith or no. But we have been paying attention to her! Maybe we shouldn't; it could be a joke. But everything in this game can get analyzed. Joke or not, Rikae's assertion bears discussion.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I can't see what kind of benefit comes from pretending such a thing. It just causes distractions.

Option: she's just kidding and it's a harmless waste of time while I'm at work.

Option: she's actually the seer and we need to figure out what clues she left because she stands a shot of dying tonight

Option: she's actually Frodo and wants to be turned tonight (thereby making a target out of herself)

Option: she's a bad guy and we need to figure out her motives

Option: insert any option you like.

What benefit doesn't come from taking a close look at statements? If it's a joke, I'm not particularly upset about a bit of time taken from my day. If it's not, I've got a head start on figuring out what it means.

[Meneltarmacil]

I'd suggest we keep any speculation regarding the Innkeeper/Seer to ourselves. Discussing Seerish comments openly just draws the wraiths towrd the true Seer, which isn't good. True, it may help to protect said person, but I personally think it wise to conceal the Seer's identity from xyr enemies as long as possible.

I'm still suspicious of Mac, due to his ongoing suspicion of Gollum.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Discussing Seerish comments openly just draws the wraiths towrd the true Seer, which isn't good.

Unless a person in being blatantly obvious, in which case discussion is fair game because the person obviously wants to be discussed for whatever reason.

Besides... it gives me something to do instead of be angsty.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Lommy

WHAT?!? What kind of explanation is that?? And Mac, that's the second wolf slip from you, so I'm really baffled. "Is most probably joking"? Mac, if you were innocent, you'd know she was joking... Ok, granted, you make an addition about Ferny, but all in all, that was awfully carelessly wolvishly phrased.WHAT?!? What kind of explanation is that?? And Mac, that's the second wolf slip from you, so I'm really baffled. "Is most probably joking"? Mac, if you were innocent, you'd know she was joking... Ok, granted, you make an addition about Ferny, but all in all, that was awfully carelessly wolvishly phrased.

After you made this post Lommy, I reread Mac's sentence and I actually this might be just a misunderstanding in language. You're reading it as "most probably joking," but I think he might've meant to say "joking most probably because nobody's paying attention to her." At least that's how I'm reading it.

Originally Posted by Fea

Option: she's actually the seer and we need to figure out what clues she left because she stands a shot of dying tonight

Now this is one option I don't get. If there's any possibility she actually is the seer, why would you spotlight it and further risk the chances of her getting killed?

[Rikae]

I was joking, but I won't say I wasn't well aware somebody might make something of it, and I thought what they made of it might be useful.
Mac, I've tested you three times now, and you've earned my trust. If you're a baddie, kudos.
Lommy, if you mean what I think you mean, that's just a back up plan. Read a little further. There's also another one.
As an ordo, I want to die during the night to protect the gifteds, and I also want to do what I can to trick wolves into giving themselves away. Nothing special there, really.

Now, on to making that list I promised.

EDIT: And X'd with the whole page again.

[Mirandir]

Okay, I've read and gotten caught up but unfortunately don't have time to comment on anything due to a prior commitment that is going to eat up the bulk of the remainder of my day. With any luck I'll be back within a few hours of deadline and be able to actually contribute then.

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I'd suggest we keep any speculation regarding the Innkeeper/Seer to ourselves. Discussing Seerish comments openly just draws the wraiths towrd the true Seer, which isn't good. True, it may help to protect said person, but I personally think it wise to conceal the Seer's identity from xyr enemies as long as possible.

I agree in part. If Rikae did not blatantly name herself as the seer, it would be a different story. As Fea said, it's out in the open.

But there are certain speculations that should not be tabled.

At any rate, Rikae has spoken. Whatever your intentions, thanks for making today interesting.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

If there's any possibility she actually is the seer, why would you spotlight it and further risk the chances of her getting killed?

Because saying "I'm the seer, kill this person, here's my evidence" isn't spotlighting herself without my help? Me pretending I'm blind doesn't make wraiths blind.

*stops*

I just realized something significant.

I shall hush.

Rikae: onward and upward.

[Meneltarmacil]

Fea, if you're suggesting we ought to lynch Mac, I'm up for it.

[A Little Green]

Why is it that I feel completely lost? I'm not smart enough to get any sense out of all this suttf. I've lost the track of this discussion completely. Shall we talk about... hmmm... carrots?


EDIT: x-ed with Menel

[A Little Green]

Yeah, I came to post some nice ideas but my head feels strangely empty. I think it's smartest if I just let Noggins post and come back when I have thought about things a little (green).

This is one of the times when I feel ww is not my area of expertise...

I'll be back!

[Beregond]

Well, I'd understand how a person would like carrots, but I'm more of a potato guy myself (what's taters, precious, what's taters, eh?).

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I'm still suspicious of Mac, due to his ongoing suspicion of Gollum.

Do you have a reason for giving that as the reason, or?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

Because saying "I'm the seer, kill this person, here's my evidence" isn't spotlighting herself without my help? Me pretending I'm blind doesn't make wraiths blind.

The thing is, would anyone else have given her comment a second thought if you hadn't brought it up first? It didn't look like she was spotlighting herself, it seemed pretty much a casual joke to me. I just can't understand why it'd be helpful to point out Rikae's seerish comments, whether she really is the seer or if it's just a ploy. I guess I just don't get your logic in all of this.

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

The thing is, would anyone else have given her comment a second thought if you hadn't brought it up first? It didn't look like she was spotlighting herself, it seemed pretty much a casual joke to me. I just can't understand why it'd be helpful to point out Rikae's seerish comments, whether she really is the seer or if it's just a ploy. I guess I just don't get your logic in all of this.

Well, to be fair to Fea, I was going to as well for good or ill, she just mentioned it first.

[Rikae]

Never mind, let's lynch Berry and Greenie. They're sending hints.

Carrots and potatoes clearly indicate... whoever's name Berry Ferny sent to the little green wraith... only trouble is, who would that be...

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Never mind, let's lynch Berry and Greenie. They're sending hints.

Carrots and potatoes clearly indicate... whoever's name Berry Ferny sent to the little green wraith... only trouble is, who would that be...

Hmmmmn, yes, who, indeed?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Beregond

Hmmmmn, yes, who, indeed?

Clearly Lalwende, for her red hair.

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Clearly Lalwende, for her red hair.

Oh no, you're on to us!

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

but decent packmates would keep me from making such mistakes

Of course. My point was that all wolves were timid, which is not likely, but possible.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Mac, if you were innocent, you'd know she was joking...

That was sloppily phrased by me: I mean most probably a joking innocent, or Ferny (who would not be joking because he had a plan behind this move)

Originally Posted by Brinn

You're reading it as "most probably joking," but I think he might've meant to say "joking most probably because nobody's paying attention to her."

Nah, Lommy was right, actually.

Originally Posted by Beregond

But we have been paying attention to her!

Not enough, and not to her other points.

Originally Posted by Menel

I'm still suspicious of Mac, due to his ongoing suspicion of Gollum.

What are you talking about, Menel? I never really suspected Gollum at all, he just looked least innocent of the people on the block. And what do you mean by ongoing?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Beregond

Well, to be fair to Fea, I was going to as well for good or ill, she just mentioned it first.

Alright, I honestly thought you had simply followed up her comment since there was a gap between the timing of the posts and no indication of a cross.

Bah, I still can't see how that comment could've been taken seriously. But I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. It can be easy to interpret the tone and meaning of someone's comment in different ways.

[Nogrod]

I must say I was kind of disappointed to hear Rikae gave in so fast... I mean were it a test of sorts I could imagine her trying she should have waited a bit more for any outcome to be reached *. Now it ended up like a little prank made by now clearly and most definitively innocent Rikae, right? That was what you thought, wasn't it? And that's why you had to draw it back before the real seer started getting mad with it? Or was it like Fea suggested that you were hoping to be turned as you're Frodo?

My problem with this is that I could see an innocent Rikae pulling that kind of a trick anyday. Sure. But somehow she gave in soo easily as to make me think twice about the motive behind the trick that was clearly left unexecuted. I mean were it a trick by an innocent she should have waited to see whether it paid off... But now it looked more like something done for other reasons and like she was more than happy to pull that back after the initial reaction ("Rikae must be innocent") was reached?

*Well I do agree with Lommy on Mac answering the "challenge" most strangely.

Originally Posted by Lommy on Mac explaining why Rikae said Mac is a wraith and she is the seer

"Is most probably joking"? Mac, if you were innocent, you'd know she was joking...

To the point. *underlining mine*

So it looks ever more strange that Rikae now seems to defend Mac... So is it that they're just a bold pair of wolves (possible) or is it only a RL bride defending her fiancée (possible as well)?

Whatever the truth is, I will eye both of them more closely from this on.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Granted, (forgot to mention this in my summary although I was planning to) it was 4 am when you posted that, and your most suspicious posts came very late, which might explain something. But it doesn't change the fact that I don't like your points

This actually makes me suspect you Aganzir a lot less as it sounds like something an earnest person would note if she knew the facts behind the posts (eg. that I was writing my last posts closer to the morning which many of you don't see as immediately as she would being on the same timezone as I am).

And anyway I think I have to reorientate a bit for now. But first we are going to play some funny games RL with Lommy & Greenie.

Back later...

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Alright, I honestly thought you had simply followed up her comment since there was a gap between the timing of the posts and no indication of a cross.

Bah, I still can't see how that comment could've been taken seriously. But I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. It can be easy to interpret the tone and meaning of someone's comment in different ways.

Yeah, I noticed Fea's post before I started to write mine (so it was a crossing of minds, not posts).

No, I know it certainly looked like a joke, but I don't trust anything at this point.

[Meneltarmacil]

What I was referring to, Mac, was the fact that you wereacting suspicious about Gollum throughout Day 1, and not just at the end.

[Rikae]

In response to Nogrod:
I saw several reactions, and Mac's in particular. That was all I really wanted to do, and yes, of course, I didn't want to risk the real seer being revealed.

I thought Mac's response looked innocent when I saw it. Even Lommy's comment on it didn't make it look suspicious, since I took it the way Brinniel did. Now that Mac replied the way he did to Brinn, though, I'm not so sure. His response simply doesn't make sense.

I don't think he's Ferny but he could still be a wraith.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

But really what's all this "Noggie would have killed Shasta" stuff?

Well it was a thing that occurred to me, just because Shasta has been quiet in recent games. I wouldn't have used it as a reason for suspicion if I hadn't been suspicious of him for other reasons.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Your brain must've really shut down if it wasn't able to come up with anything anymore, though.

It was. It was ages since I had had a chance to sleep properly and wake up when I wanted instead of when the alarm clock told me to as I had to wake up early on both Saturday and Sunday last weekend. Add to that several nights of 6-7 hours of sleep, which is way too little for me. I went to take a shower and when I came back I realised I couldn't think properly anymore.

Okay I got distracted for a while. *goes to read what's been posted in the meanwhile*

Originally Posted by Rikae

Carrots and potatoes clearly indicate... whoever's name Berry Ferny sent to the little green wraith... only trouble is, who would that be...

Fea is a gardener.

Originally Posted by Nog

I must say I was kind of disappointed to hear Rikae gave in so fast...

Me too, although I can understand it if she was afraid of flushing out the real seer. That seems unlikely, though, given that it's only day 2, and if the wraiths have taken Rikae seriously, they'll kill her soon.

I wouldn't like to stay up terribly late today, either, so I'm probably voting in a few hours. However now I could pick a person from my Neither list and go through xyr posts.

[Rikae]

Sally- I do want to take a closer look at her. She had some odd interactions with people.
Fea - Could be anything.
Lari - Also needs a closer look. Something she said looked odd.
Mira - Popping in with the occasional comment, very under-the-reindeer, could be up to no good.
Lommy- Looks fairly innocent at the moment.
Leggy- Hasn't been around toDay, which is a shame. With everyone thinking him so innocent, I doubt the wolves will leave him alive much longer, and he's a good wolf-hunter.
Agan- Has seemed more innocent, although I'm far from sure.
Nogrod- He looks like the same old Nog as always, but that doesn't tell me much.
Nerwen - I don't know. Perhaps it looks innocent that she waited to vote for Gollum rather than choosing one among Mac, Brinn and Lommy. Then again, I might have done the same as a baddie. Lynching an innocent "big name" without sufficient explanation is harder to defend.
Rune -Has been suspecting people on strange grounds. Hard to read.
Berry - Newbie-ish. Can't tell much yet.
Mac- Perhaps we're better off lynching him toDay. His role could reveal a lot.
Menel- His behavior is decidedly queer. I haven't decided what I think of him.
Dury- Haven't seen enough of her to form an opinion.
Lily- Creeping me out.
Brin - Her reaction to my seer prank looks innocentish, especially if Mac is evil.

[Rikae]

I'm tired of Mac being a baddie. Every single game I've played with him in the last two years, it seems, he's been a baddie (well, with the exception of dueling wizards). *sigh*

I'm also tired of being an ordo.

For reasons I may or may not have explained yet and I'm too tired at the moment to worry about it:

++A Little Green

*wanders off to eat something sweet, like she intended not to do*

[Thinlómien]

Oh, I give up. Mac, you admit your mistakes so cheerfully and calmly that I might have to consider you innocent and refrain from murderous thoughts against you at least for the time being.

Originally Posted by Fea

Option: she's actually Frodo and wants to be turned tonight (thereby making a target out of herself)

Now that you said it aloud, I may as well say that it was my "horrid scenario"... because it would really be rather disastrous-ish, especially if we're not told when Frodo goes to the dark side...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Now that you said it aloud, I may as well say that it was my "horrid scenario"... because it would really be rather disastrous-ish, especially if we're not told when Frodo goes to the dark side...

Of course I'm Frodo.

When I'm turned into a wraith, I'll kill you all, and you'll never catch me! Mwahahaha! Er, well...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Now that you said it aloud, I may as well say that it was my "horrid scenario"... because it would really be rather disastrous-ish, especially if we're not told when Frodo goes to the dark side...

Yeah and we surely wouldn't catch her quickly enough after that?

Although Kitanna hasn't responded, I find it unlikely we would not get to know when Frodo is turned. At least last night's narration described the happenings in detail enough.

I'm in the process of analysing Brinn but I've been constantly distracted because for some reason everyone wants to complain to me about their problems with the opposite/same sex.

Also Lommy why does admitting his mistakes make Mac look more innocent?

edit: xed with Mrs Butterbur-Underhill

[Thinlómien]

Innocent
Fea - simply feels innocent. Is rational, positively ployful and calm. Admittedly, she says some weird stuff, but oddly enough it doesn't bother me much.
Mira - does not worry me, her defending Fea and Lari makes her look innocent, unless they're all wolves.
Legate - gives no reason to suspect himself, seems open and sincere.
Nerwen - rings no bells.
Rune - too aggressive to be a wolf?

Neutral
sally - flying under my radar. I would not be surprised if she was a wraith, I definitely need to keep an eye on her...
Lari - another one who's under my radar. Could be anything.
Rikae - I'm inclined to think she's not a wraith, but she could be Ferny or Underhill.
Noggie - I don't like his Gollum-voting business at all but his annoyance feels honest and innocent.
Rego - he manages to be both all-over-the-place and careful at the same time. He comments almost everything but he does not have strong opinions. I cannot decide if it's suspicious or just a thoughtful newbie learning to get a hang of the game.
Mac - no idea. I keep flip-flopping on him so much that I don't want to say anything.
Menel - slips under my ranger.
Durelin - too quiet.

Suspicious
Aganzir - she just disturbs me somehow, she feels curiously detached from the game and it reminds me of her wolvish self.
Greenie - she feels a little disturbing and sneaky, some stuff she says doesn't quite sit right with me. I think, however, that I wouldn't be half this suspicious of her if others weren't suspecting her.
Brinniel - feels suspicious, to put it simply. Her comments about the ringbearer are odd.


edit: xed with Rikae and Agan

[Thinlómien]

Rikae and Agan - as for the Frodo-thing, if Kittie does not tell us about Frodo going evil, it could be rather disastrous. Rikae would get to play gifted for a few Days and cause havoc by naming known innocents and she might even be able to draw both our gifteds out of their closets to get the issue solved.

Originally Posted by Agan

Also Lommy why does admitting his mistakes make Mac look more innocent?

I don't know, it just makes it look like he has nothing to hide. Which would be smart tactics from a wraith, of course, but I want to give him the benefit of doubt for now.

[Aganzir]

Brinn started by complaining about IC posting. I find it understandable - only a few people had made lots of IC posts and there was nothing of substance yet. It's okay if everyone makes a few of them, but three people filling a page with them merits some complaint.

She might have overreacted a bit to being suspected because of her first post, but I find her reaction rather innocentish. And Rune was certainly unnecessarily evil to her.

Her opinion on Frodo is contrary to that of a loud majority but I can understand her. Yeah, of course it would be easiest for us if Frodo just came out and said Hi, here I am! but it doesn't seem fair to ask xem to do it. But it would also make it more boring. At least I would much rather figure xem out based on xyr posts than see xem reveal. It's more entertaining.
I can see why some people think she's giving hints to Frodo, but I think too much along the same lines with her to agree with them. Yeah of course it's possible, but it's also possible Brinn is just being fair.
Okay she did talk about Frodo quite a lot though.

Out of Mac, Lommy and Gollum she found Gollum the most suspicious. It's hard to say anything yet, given that Lommy's & Mac's roles are still unknown. I wasn't very suspicious of Golly but didn't like his lack of substance that much either, so I can well understand why some people wanted to lynch him.

She thought Shasta was killed because of leaving no trails. While this is possible, I find it likely that the wolves also thought he was either the seer of Frodo.

She made a list of people in #277. I mostly agree with it, except that I'm not worried about Greenie. Her posts are usually well-thought out, but I don't think she was suspiciously careful.

Brinn didn't find Rikae's seer comment serious, but found everyone's reactions to it odd. What exactly do you mean by that, Brinn? How were they odd?

She said she couldn't see what benefit could come from Fea pretending Rikae was serious. I can. If Fea had a reason to assume Rikae was joking, it would have been sensible to help set her up as a wolf kill. Of course there was a risk of the real seer revealing, though, which I think is why it wasn't pursued further.
And of course Rikae can be the real seer now and she's just trying to get the baddies off track. They can never know, unless she is one of them.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Now this is one option I don't get. If there's any possibility she actually is the seer, why would you spotlight it and further risk the chances of her getting killed?

Or help by misguiding the wolves to assume she isn't the seer? Anything's possible.

I think Brinn looks rather innocent in general. Her points are mostly sensible, and while I agree that she was rather tense on day 1, it seems to be more due to RL stuff. She's been much more relaxed later.

edit: xed with two Lommys

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Aganzir - she just disturbs me somehow, she feels curiously detached from the game and it reminds me of her wolvish self.

Elaborate.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Rikae and Agan - as for the Frodo-thing, if Kittie does not tell us about Frodo going evil, it could be rather disastrous.

I'm more optimistic about it than you. I just don't find it very likely that even she could have pulled it off, especially as there are people who would know she's lying.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I don't know, it just makes it look like he has nothing to hide. Which would be smart tactics from a wraith, of course, but I want to give him the benefit of doubt for now.

Yes indeed - everything has two sides. And I'm not going to give him the benefit of doubt for managing to look innocent by admitting his mistakes.

I don't know what to make of Rikae and Lommy. They both look rather innocent but I seem to disagree with them on other people, especially with Lommy.

[Macalaure]

On the risk of sounding like downplaying what Rikae is saying about me, her extreme flip-flopping on me is not uncommon...

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now that Mac replied the way he did to Brinn, though, I'm not so sure. His response simply doesn't make sense.

If you say so. That's the way it was, though.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm tired of Mac being a baddie.

Alright, first, I'm not a baddie. Second, you can't know whether or not I'm a baddie. So, third, why do you say such a thing?

Rikae, would you share with us what exactly is creeping you out about A Little Green? I'm not trying to defend her, I'm really curious.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Also Lommy why does admitting his mistakes make Mac look more innocent?

I assume it's the way I admitted it and not the fact alone. I mean, darn, if I'm bad, why didn't I just pick up the defense that Brinn gave me??


I hate being talked about so much, because it makes me talk about myself all the time, too, from which I am learning nothing about anybody else.


edit: crossed with 2 Agans

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I assume it's the way I admitted it and not the fact alone. I mean, darn, if I'm bad, why didn't I just pick up the defense that Brinn gave me??

Because some people just prefer to do it the honest way... If I had been in your place I would probably have admitted what I had really meant, regardless of my role or what would possibly be viewed as more suspicious.

Originally Posted by Mac

I hate being talked about so much

If it comforts you, I'm starting to hate talking about you, too. I'm getting tired of it.

I'm also tired of forcing myself to come up with points that can back up your guilt just because you could have said so also if guilty.