Werewolf LXXII: Now There's the Truth of It! (Game Thread)

[wilwarin538]

*snuggles Pitch back* and my cat appreciates it
*snuggles phantom* cause I'm sure he won't mind, being a family man and all


No worries Nerwen, Lottie and I both have dark bluish avvies, could have been that.


Yeah, I feel quite good about Lottie. Also about Fea and Form, and Glirdan. But I just can't get it out of my head that Mira would have protected at least 1 of her fellows. I mean I suppose it's possible she didn't, but each of the 4 wolves could have voted for one another and it may take a while to catch the pattern.

Anyway, this game works quite nicely for me because I always find myself trusting everyone and having a very hard time finding someone who looks bad. At least the first few days.

So tired. I think I'm gonna go try to nap for a bit, and then I'll come back later. This post took me forever cause I keep spacing out and forgetting what I want to say.

x'ed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Yeah, I feel quite good about Lottie. Also about Fea and Form, and Glirdan. But I just can't get it out of my head that Mira would have protected at least 1 of her fellows. I mean I suppose it's possible she didn't, but each of the 4 wolves could have voted for one another and it may take a while to catch the pattern.

As I said, it is quite likely she did. Also, now that I've checked, I see that only two people (Nogrod and I) had gained a third vote at the time Mira voted. So whoever her packmates are, she couldn't have felt secure about them all.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

'Twas brillig, and the slithy wolves
Did gyre and gimble in the Night;
All mimsy was the Huntingulve,
And the mome raths the fight.

"Beware the Mirawolf, everyone!
The jaws that bite, the claws that got us!
Beware the other wolves, and shun
The frumious Sally Goddess!"

Ni took her vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe she sought—
So rested she by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And as in uffish thought she stood,
The Wolf Pack, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! and through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
But Ni was dead, and with her head
They went galumphing back.

"But thou hast slain the Mirawolf!
Come to the Mod, my beamish Ni!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
Sal chortled in her glee.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy wolves
Did gyre and gimble in the Night;
All mimsy was the Huntingulve,
And the mome raths the fight.

[Pitchwife]

At the time Mira voted (with lots of votes still to come), Glirdan and Lottie already had two votes each, Fea and Form only one, so if she was trying to save anybody, I'd guess it would rather be one of the latter two. Now this is rather gut-feelingish, but I'd say Fea would have seemed in less need of being saved, having made an impressive entrée into the discussion and not being suspected by anybody yet, so I'd rather lean towards Form (bet you haven't guessed that yet).
But while it's indeed possible that Mira used one of her votes for a packmate, it's far from certain. When I'm a wolf, I tend to favour letting natural selection do its work - i.e. letting whoever gets into danger fend for themselves (as Nerwen will remember from Legate's game, where this tactic served us quite well); so let's not count too much on the Wolves voting to save each other. We need to look at a lot of other people as well.

(x-ed with Lewis Carroll of the Peredhil)

EDIT: added some bolding.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But while it's indeed possible that Mira used one of her votes for a packmate, it's far from certain. When I'm a wolf, I tend to favour letting natural selection do its work - i.e. letting whoever gets into danger fend for themselves (as Nerwen will remember from Legate's game, where this tactic served us quite well); so let's not count too much on the Wolves voting to save each other. We need to look at a lot of other people as well.

While it would have been quite foolish for them all to try and boost one another, one or two of them could probably have done it with relative safety, especially while all four of their identities were still unknown. It's only now we've got a break by getting one of them that it becomes really dangerous, as the links can then be examined.
But you're right in that it wouldn't do to get too closely focused on one of two people.

PS-I'd forgotten about the Moddess Parody Challenge. But can anyone beat that from Fea?

[Glirdan]

I am back after a three hour morning rehearsal and have quickly read through everything since I've been gone and will comment on some things quickly.

Originally Posted by Pitch

I don't quite get where all this wave of trust in Nog comes from. As Nerwen just said concerning Form, it's not like our deceased innocents knew anything, they could have been just as mistaken as everybody else. Nog started out making some good points yesterDay

(Underlined my part)
That is my main reasoning for trusting Nog. He has been making rather valid points and opinions which are what we need to keep for this game. It is, however as you stated in your post, quite possible that he is a Wolf. It is entirely possible that he is manipulating his way to the forefront to gain people's trust. However, I don't think that Nog would be that obvious about it if he is a Wolf. Although, on the flip side of things, he could be doing it on purpose just for that reason and throw suspicion off of him. It is Nog we're talking about and anything is possible when it comes to him.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

I agree! Sooo happy to have my bff back on here. And alive day 2. And I make the same mistake with than/then all the time, it may be a Canadian thing.

Happy to be back!! And yeah, I'm pretty sure it is a Canadian thing...I do it all the time.

Okay, so I am going to quickly leave and find something to eat having not eaten anything all day, but I will be back soon.

[Pitchwife]

Preliminary list, to be updated and if necessary corrected:

Utterly trust
sally, because she's so open and forthcoming and could never hide a devious thought from us

Trust
Eönwë
Lottie
wilwa

Feel rather positive about
Brinn (few posts, but those well-reasoned, I think)
Glirdan (supported - although with a bit of wavering - the Night-posting Wolf Theory, which I don't quite see him doing as Mira's packmate)
Fea
Izzy
(with a question-mark for the latter two, as they both voted for Mira; care to explain?)

Feel rather positive about, but am cautious of on general principles
Nerwen
Zil

Find annoying, but not sure whether to suspect
Nog

Suspect
Form
Rune
for being a pair of sneaky lurkers, and Form also for Mira-voting relations, q.v. above.

Would like to lynch
the phantom - Wait, where is he toDay?

Unfortunately, again considering the popularity contest aspect, there's probably bound to be at least two wolves in my trust/positive zone, but I'll postpone second-guessing myself till later.

[Nogrod]

I'm only reading now, but felt I wish to comment on this on the go...

Originally Posted by Eönwë

However, I will say this- Yesterday there were quite a few people who didn't mention who they thought was suspicious and in this way maybe Nogrod had the right idea. It was just that I thought a fake vote was going too far.

Why is it we have no idea whom most of the players suspect or whom they'd like us to think they suspect? I tried to press for some kind of deal that we'd require everyone to state their suspicions openly thus forcing the wolves to play our game and not only hide behind the curtain of general goodwill where everyone wishes to look agreeable.

If we don't pressure the wolves to suspect people openly they will just rub you the right way and we'll get them only with lucky shots (talking of which, way to go Nienna!).

And sorry Pitch, it was not a campaign against you but an openly voiced suspicion (I did actually suspect three others more or less as much as you - and it looks like one of them was indeed a wolf).

Another point from the quote up there. I suggested "fake votes" or bolded opinion (like I did in my own post then) only to make them stand out so that everyone could see them fex. in a last half an hour rush needing not to close-read every post again to find them. And I said that yesterDay already. Claming that I was trying to destroy the new game-concept before we had tried it, or that I was misfocusing our effort, is plain silly.

[Glirdan]

Okay, I am back and with a list of suspects and such.

Trust

Nog - For reasons I have stated many times earlier.
Pitch - Has made a lot of contributions with many good thoughts and ideas, definitely someone worth keeping around
Wilwa - Even though we always suspect each other, something about her just seems right and innocent.
Fea - What's not to trust? She came on late in the Day on Day 1 but did so with a bang with many good thoughts and ideas of her own.

Feel Inclined To Trust
Lottie - Has had many good posts of substance. The only thing that makes me a little leery is her Day 1 posting, but I am more than willing to let that slide as hers was a post telling everyone to shut it.
Nerwen - Also posted pre-Day, yet has made some great contributions to the game and I would hate to see her go just now.
Zil - Always has substance in his posts and brings up some rather interesting points himself.

Unsure
Brinn - She has been rather quiet thus far toDay and would like to hear more from her.
Izzy - I've only played in one game with her before and she was a Wolf then. Her playing style is similar to that of the last game, yet I do not want to make any judgements based on meta-reasoning.
Eönwë - Has been hiding in the shadows a lot and was also one of the pre-Day posters. But he has had posts that were well reasoned with good points of his own.
Rune - Has been far too quiet for my liking and not much to go on. Almost tempted to put him under the suspect category, yet would like to hear more before making any final decisions.

Suspect
Form - Pre-Day poster, vote of confience from Mira and just an unsettling feeling about him.

So as it stands, my four votes will probably go to Nog, Wilwa, Fea and Pitch, but this could all change by the time DL rolls around.

X'd With Noggy

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Why is it we have no idea whom most of the players suspect or whom they'd like us to think they suspect?

Read on, I think we're getting there.

If we don't pressure the wolves to suspect people openly they will just rub you the right way

True, and in this game more than in any other. Is that why you suspected Eönwë and me for rubbing you the wrong way?

And sorry Pitch, it was not a campaign against you but an openly voiced suspicion

It's alllright, I've calmed down a bit now. And don't apologize before you actually know I'm innocent!

EDIT:fixed coding

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Read on, I think we're getting there.

You're quite right! Good to see there are finally some suspicions flying... Then let's be careful we do not leave the suspecters without confidence-votes and let some people fly under the radar being just agreeable and nice to everyone, telling everyone how smart, beautiful and lovable they are.

Is that why you suspected Eönwë and me for rubbing you the wrong way?

Heh, touché! But it also actually confirms my point.

[the phantom]

If you haven't made a trust/suspect list by the end of the day, you should die.

If you don't produce a song/poem parody by the end of the day, you should die.

And what did I say about snuggling on a WW thread?! Only a Mod has the power to get away with that. And The Barrow-Wight- but he has the good taste not to try it.

And cats too. They have no place being mentioned in a WW game. They are furry evil creatures who... erm, well okay... actually, they fit great in a WW game.

And why have none of you taken the lead and dumped your votes? You can either do the flush-your-extra-three-votes thing (a wicked awesome plan if I may say so) or you can just go ahead and vote for a person or two to get the ball rolling. Talk in circles all you want, but you know good and well that at the end of the day you will feel that there are certain individuals that you simply cannot allow to be lynched this round given what happened with the voting yesterday.

If you don't go ahead and jump on a couple of your convictions early everyone else will beat you to it and then for the purpose of spreading votes you'll be forced to vote for your lesser choices. Is that what you want? Come on- take some pressure off of yourself. Cast some votes. It's not like you only have one.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

But phantom, darling, I like pressure. The full weight of a situation, pressing, bearing down on me...

Why cast votes now when I can masochistically enjoy the intensity?

[Nogrod]

Of Form. I can see where the suspicion comes from but,

- Could anyone knowing him even a wee-bit think he would knowingly go and post on the thread during the Night while conversing with his packmates (and possibly planning that trick)? It just doesn't fit my image of him.
- His votes of confidence were clearly to those others who posted prematurely, and if he's innocent - and as he is the D1-hater I know - it would sound pretty straightforward from him. In general I could see some "goodwill" forming in an innocent towards others who have screwed up like himself...

I'm not saying he should not be suspected and I'd like to hear what he says toDay, but let's ponder these factors as well.

What I find a bit disconcerting is that more or less everyone seems to be assuming that Fea and wilwa are innocent by default. Well I tend to think them more innocent than not, but not by default or think it somehow self-evident.

Did Fea actually ever elaborate why she gave her two Simon-votes as pluses to wilwa?


EDIT: X'd with Fea...

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by the phantom

If you haven't made a trust/suspect list by the end of the day, you should die.

Almost makes me wish I hadn't.

If you don't produce a song/poem parody by the end of the day, you should die.

Kill me then, if you can. Can't rhyme under pressure if my life depends on it. Especially not when my life depends on it.

And what did I say about snuggling on a WW thread?! Only a Mod has the power to get away with that. And The Barrow-Wight- but he has the good taste not to try it.

*snuggle snuggle snuggle*

And cats too. They have no place being mentioned in a WW game. They are furry evil creatures who... erm, well okay... actually, they fit great in a WW game.

Tevildo. 'Nuff said.

And why have none of you taken the lead and dumped your votes? You can either do the flush-your-extra-three-votes thing (a wicked awesome plan if I may say so) or you can just go ahead and vote for a person or two to get the ball rolling. Talk in circles all you want, but you know good and well that at the end of the day you will feel that there are certain individuals that you simply cannot allow to be lynched this round given what happened with the voting yesterday.
If you don't go ahead and jump on a couple of your convictions early everyone else will beat you to it and then for the purpose of spreading votes you'll be forced to vote for your lesser choices. Is that what you want? Come on- take some pressure off of yourself. Cast some votes. It's not like you only have one.

And who are you, anyway?

[the phantom]

I clearly wasn't talking to you, Fea. I would make some criticisms of you (about how you're the last person who oughta be trusted to make good rational decisions in crunch time and such) but I know that you're just as arrogant as your father and criticism simply bounces off of you.

[Nogrod]

I find this a bit odd...

Originally Posted by Izzy

Sad that the Hunter is gone so quickly, but niice that she took a wolf with her. xD

Yeah, there is the smilie in the end but somehow it just looks not right.

I'm not a native speaker as most of you know, but to me that looks an odd way to phrase it.

And anyway, killing a wolf while going down is the ultimate victory of the hunter - after just D1 it's like unparalleled heroism. So: "sad the hunter is gone so quickly"? Hope you see what I mean? To me it looks more like someone who is forced to say something good on the hunter - and not feeling it truly as a good thing.

PS. As you see, I'm skimming the thread and coming forwards making any points as I go unless I get a better idea...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Did Fea actually ever elaborate why she gave her two Simon-votes as pluses to wilwa?

She seemed the snuggliest at the time.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

She seemed the snuggliest at the time.

Oh but that explains it. Why didn't you tell us that in the beginning so I shouldn't have needed to make the effort of asking?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Oh but that explains it. Why didn't you tell us that in the beginning so I shouldn't have needed to make the effort of asking?

Why did you think I'd have a more convolutedly complex answer in place for you after a Day One?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I find this a bit odd...
Yeah, there is the smilie in the end but somehow it just looks not right.

I'm not a native speaker as most of you know, but to me that looks an odd way to phrase it.

And anyway, killing a wolf while going down is the ultimate victory of the hunter - after just D1 it's like unparalleled heroism. So: "sad the hunter is gone so quickly"? Hope you see what I mean? To me it looks more like someone who is forced to say something good on the hunter - and not feeling it truly as a good thing.

It might be. . . wolves has previously been caught by small random things like this, but it is also very easy to over-react.

To be honest, I don't read it the same way, but I like that stuff as this is brought up.

(Don't have much internet time. . .is looking through the thread)

[Nogrod]

Some points from the read-in...


This new game-mechanic is proving to be really challenging. To be truthful, I have to say I’m a bit uneasy with all this open support I seem to have (well, seemed to have anyway earlier on the Day). It easily makes me ponder whether there is some buttering-up going on. But on the other hand one wouldn’t like to get all those who trust you to get annoyed with you by suspecting their trust in a game where you need confidence-votes to stay alive.

Lottie had some good points on Eönwë and I’m not to sure his answers were that confidence-arousing. Especially what he said on Nienna.

I do appreciate Nerwen’s level-headedness.

I’d be one of those who’d not automatically count on the wolves to vote in a certain pattern. But giving my two cents on it anyhow.

I think it’s clear an early voter-wolf could easily vote one of her/his fellows without looking too bad but still making possibly a crucial vote saving the mate’s neck (and I’m talking about these first Days here – later it might be different), but if it felt to that wolf there was support enough s/he could easily let the mates without a vote as well. In the end there sure is some pressure even with this game dynamics if it looks like a mate is in danger of being lynched. Izzy’s fast rise in the tallies in the end of the Day1 does actually raise my eyebrows. I need to check closer as to what actually happened as soon as I get through the remaining thread.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

If you haven't made a trust/suspect list by the end of the day, you should die.

Can we just lynch you?

Originally Posted by the phantom

If you don't produce a song/poem parody by the end of the day, you should die.

My muse currently is otherwise occupied. Should inspiration strike, you'll know.

Originally Posted by the phantom

And what did I say about snuggling on a WW thread?! Only a Mod has the power to get away with that. And The Barrow-Wight- but he has the good taste not to try it.

I'm not the 'snuggly' sort, so no worries there.

Originally Posted by the phantom

And cats too. They have no place being mentioned in a WW game. They are furry evil creatures who... erm, well okay... actually, they fit great in a WW game.

Cats being assuredly not evil, they do not mesh with wolves.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Of Form. I can see where the suspicion comes from but,
- Could anyone knowing him even a wee-bit think he would knowingly go and post on the thread during the Night while conversing with his packmates (and possibly planning that trick)? It just doesn't fit my image of him.
- His votes of confidence were clearly to those others who posted prematurely, and if he's innocent - and as he is the D1-hater I know - it would sound pretty straightforward from him. In general I could see some "goodwill" forming in an innocent towards others who have screwed up like himself...

I'm not saying he should not be suspected and I'd like to hear what he says toDay, but let's ponder these factors as well.

I had a hard time seeing him doing something like that too. It's not the early posting by itself so much as it is the totality of circumstances. The fact that he and Mira voted for one another as well is what makes me uneasy about him.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What I find a bit disconcerting is that more or less everyone seems to be assuming that Fea and wilwa are innocent by default. Well I tend to think them more innocent than not, but not by default or think it somehow self-evident.

I don't see anything particularly evil-looking about either of them, but they're not in the clear, to be sure.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And anyway, killing a wolf while going down is the ultimate victory of the hunter - after just D1 it's like unparalleled heroism. So: "sad the hunter is gone so quickly"? Hope you see what I mean? To me it looks more like someone who is forced to say something good on the hunter - and not feeling it truly as a good thing.

I can see what you mean, and it is a somewhat odd way to phrase it, but that by itself wouldn't be enough to make me think Izzy a wolf. Just something to file away in case other things about her come to the forefront.

x/d with Nog

[Pitchwife]

Nice find about Izzy, Nog. Sounds a little off to me, too. And now you mention it, Glirdan said something similar in #208:

It is sad that Nienna was killed during the Night for she definitely could have proved to have been of some great help to us, but at least she didn't die in vain!

OK, maybe he meant she could have been helpful as a reasonable player, or even as a known innocent later on if revealed, but what greater help can a Hunter be to the village than by killing a wolf, especially so early on?

EDIT: x-ed w/ Nog and Zil; also added bolding.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I really don't think that Form is a wolf and I would actually like to see him as simon. . .

I simply don't belive that he would deliberatly post too early, of course there is a chance that two wolves posted too early by mistake. . .but I have seen nothing to indicate that Form is a wolf.

I do realise that Mira defended him, but would the wolves dare to establish such obvious links this early in the game?
I would never dare, but I was never known for bravery.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

OK, maybe he meant she could have been helpful as a reasonable player, or even as a known innocent later on if revealed, but what greater help can a Hunter be to the village than by killing a wolf, especially so early on?

Good spotting a well! And I agree with your reservations as well. Later in the game a revealed hunter is one whom the wolves will not dare to touch - and Nienna was one of the most reasonable players yesterDay. Like Zil said, these both cases I think belong to the category "if there is something else to suspect X for, this might be a brick to add to the wall".

At the moment, I feel a bit uneasy with Glirdan already saying he trusts me, a bit too much - and about Izzy getting saved late on D1 (I'll go to check that latter like now).

[wilwarin538]

I am going to make a preliminary list before reading everything again. A *** beside someone's name means that my brain has not processed any sort of opinion on them as of yet, and I will be back later with better formed opinions of them (hence my use of the word "preliminary")

Brinn ***

Dun ***

Fea: trust, because I do.

Form: certain things about him seem a little off (Night post thing and Mira vote for him), but I still just can't see him as posting during the Night like that as a wolf. No matter how many times I try to think of it as a possibility my mind is like "What, that's impossible, it's like trying to picture phantom as a nice guy." So I don't see him as a wolf.

Glirdan: want so badly to trust him, but the fact that him and I are agreeing about everything is sooooo weird. I'm gonna have to stay neutral on him, cause it's all gut right now.

Izzy *** (though her name is sending me bad vibes, so I must have seen something I didn't like at some point, I'll take a look at her)

Lottie: I feel quite good here, I like her songs. But beyond that I just think she has very good insight and valid points. (the Mira votes are still in the back of my mind though)

Nerwen ***

Nog: I think I trust him. May just be a natural instinct for me though, so when I read through I'll watch close, see if that changes at all.

Pitch: quite good with indeed.

Rune ***

Steve ***

So I'm gonna go read now....

oh, and my CAT is feeling better now, though he is still taking a lot of CAT naps and such. He is a very good CAT and my favourite out of all my three CATS....I'll stop now...

*snuggles everyone*

x'ed with Nog

[Inziladun]

Since the late votes for Izzy ought to be scrutinized, I'll have it out that the primary reason I decided to vote for her at the last was the fact that I was disposed to think a bit better of her over Gwath because she'd given me a vote. Not the best of reasons to return the favour, I know. But that was my thinking at the time.

[Pitchwife]

OK, folks, I've got to get up early tomorrow; will be around for another hour or so, but I should start getting my votes 'dumped', as the phantom put it, just in case there's any technical difficulties again. So, to start with:
++Eönwë
++Lottie
Both have demonstrated independent thinking and mostly make sense to me. And see what I said earlier about Lottie's wolf-spotting knack.

I'm inclined to trust Nog more again after his reappearance toDay, but he's probably going to get his share of votes anyway, so don't think he needs one from me.
Might vote for any out of wilwa, Fea, Nerwen, Zil.
Still leaning positive about Brinn, Izzy, Glirdan, but enough for a vote? Don't know.

Rune and Form, whether wolvish or not, haven't given me any reason for special confidence. Definitely not going to vote them.

EDIT: bolding again.

[Isabellkya]

Glirdan and Loslote, why would Nienna talking/agreeing with Nog make him more innocent? She may be a proven innocent, but that doesn't mean that proven innocents only trust/agree with other innocents. She didn't have seer powers, so...

Inziladun, Fea voted for Mira. but I believe she said "stick" and I believe that is Mira. #152


Pitch. When I voted.. I believe there were a bunch of people with no votes, or one vote. So instead if adding to those whom had multiple votes, I wanted to place mine with those whom had n/one so as to avoid a mass tie. I'd have to check the actual numbers, since my tally is now undecipherable as to which votes were where when I voted. lol.

That is true Nog. I've no personal connections to Nienna, nor a Hunter. I would prefer the Hunter/Nienna still be around - because then it would make the wolves sweat just a lil' more while making their kill decisions. Now, they don't have to worry about hitting the hunter, whom could be aimed at them.

If there was wolf-save-wolf voting going on, would they perhaps try to do it earlier in the Day; so as to maybe try and direct other votes that way? Or at least not hold on to all of their votes until the deadline?

With people saying they trust X person, perhaps you can elaborate on it. Why do you trust them? Instead of saying "player x: Just because".


As I said at the end of the day, yesterDay. Actually, those were my parting words, as I'd thought I was going. Yes, this is a popularity themed contest game, but don't lose sight that our goal is to catch the wolves. So trusting people just because they are your friends, or because you think they sing songs nicely. Wolves can't sing? Haven't you read The Three Little pigs story, from the POV of the wolf? (If I remember correctly, the wolf sang in it, or read a poem.)


X'd with Pitch.

[Nogrod]

There was considerable discussion on a possible threeway tie between Gwath who had one vote and Pitch & Izzy who had no votes at the end of the Day.

Then ten minutes before the end Nerwen opened it by voting Fea, Steve and Pitch.

Fea gave another vote to Pitch at .56.

So Izzy had no votes, Gwath had one vote, and Pitch had two (with Rune).

Then things started happening at the last minutes (and there probably were crossposting there).

.59 Inzil -> Izzy ("Now it's just two way with her and Gwath", he said earlier: "I hate for Izzy to go, really")
.59 Eönwë -> Izzy ("Because Gwath seems more suspicious.")
.00 Brinn -> Izzy ("I don't see anything particularly suspicious with Izzy, but is it worth voting for her if it's just going to create a messy tie situation? Though it look like only a two-way tie now..") + -> Fea (deciding on the Simon-role)
.00 Nerwen -> Izzy ("Ties her up with Gwath, I know... sorry...")

Hard to say if there is mayhem there or not. The votes look decent and more or less reasoned... but seasoned wolves are able to do it as well.

Needs to give it a thought.

EDIT: corrected a counting mistake before the last minute tallies

[wilwarin538]

My mother's lasagna is cutting my reading short, so I only got to the first few posts of page 4. But here is what I had quoted and my thoughts:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

What I don't like is our chance of getting an un-dreamed wolf in the early part of the game.

This sentence doesn't make sense to me, and it's fishy.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Oh and Glirdan, did they really lynch you on Day 1 last game? I remember there were a few who joked about lynching you Day 1, but I didn't think they'd actually do it. Meanies.

He was actually Hunter killed Day 1, not lynched, haha, poor kid, worst luck...

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Hopefully a Seer-reveal will be entirely unnecessary. But if someone did vote for a wolf obtained from a Seer dream, they'd be in the hot seat, no matter their excuse.

First sentence is what I'm looking at. And this may get me alot of scrutiny but a Seer is really only useful if they've revealed. I mean a Seer could dream of 3 wolves and then die before saying anything, and then what good were their dreams? Unless they left really awesome hints, but even those can be hard to catch and are risky, especially if the dream was for a wolf. So a Seer reveal is actually almost necessary for them to be helpful. Yeah, it's way better later on in the game then on Day 1 when they've only have one dream, but to be "entirely unnecessary" is kind of rediculous, it's actually usually necessary at some point.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Would it be skirting and or bending the rules, if we had a bigway tie for toDay, and thus no one would go to the noose?

No idea why she made such a suggestion. Lynching is all we have, of course we want it to happen, even if we don't get a wolf it's better then not trying. Considering the number of Fenris wolves out there it's obviously possible.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

If we do have a system of showing who we want to lynch, it draws attention away from those in who aren't in the list and who have only received a few votes of confidence. It means that these people may be able to last for quite a few days with only a few votes and remain undetected. Of course, we'll still have the same problem now, but now no-one who isn't voted is safe and have to work to gain the village's confidence, but if we do the lynch-thing, people that aren't on there will be "safe" and will probably not be looked at as much as those under suspicion.

But it's not like everyone will vote for the same people every day. suspicions changed, I mean 10 minutes ago I had no opinion on quite a few people, and now I'm suddenly paranoid about a bunch of you. So I doubt people could skim through as easily as you think. Also, I don't get why you fought Nog's suggestion so hard, Pitch did as well but I think Eonwe took it a bit too far. It really was not that big of a deal.

*breathes*

Gonna stop now and go eat, I'll be back later. I will try and get out of this foul mood I seem to have landed in.

x'ed with nog, oh and the underlining is mine..

[Brinniel]

About the late Izzy voting, I voted for her because I didn't find anything suspicious about her and didn't think she deserved to be lynched. Okay, I didn't find Gwath particularly suspicious either, but his quiet and subtle playing style makes me a little more uneasy and I thought Izzy was more helpful during the Day. I know both Nerwen and I had expressed interest in voting her near the end of the Day; I don't know where the other votes came from. On one hand it does look odd, but then there was a lot of x-posting during those last moments and part of it could've been a frenzy to prevent a tie from occurring. I don't know what the chances are that this last minute voting frenzy could indicate a wolf trying to save their mate; I certainly wouldn't suspect Izzy or anyone who voted her based on that alone.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

As I said at the end of the day, yesterDay. Actually, those were my parting words, as I'd thought I was going. Yes, this is a popularity themed contest game, but don't lose sight that our goal is to catch the wolves. So trusting people just because they are your friends, or because you think they sing songs nicely. Wolves can't sing? Haven't you read The Three Little pigs story, from the POV of the wolf? (If I remember correctly, the wolf sang in it, or read a poem.)


X'd with Pitch.

We do seem to have lost sight of our goal. . . Some people are doing some very nice analyzing, but it seems to be used for finding Simons and not for hunting wolves.

As it looks right now we will probably end up lynching alot of innocent not-extremely vocal players, so Nogrod should be thrilled. A vocal player who attracts alot of suspicion, will always have a few supporters. . . and that is all you need to survive.

I think our succes in this game will rely on having active leaders (simons), unless we can come up with some other system of voting.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by wilwa

This sentence doesn't make sense to me, and it's fishy.

What's fishy about that? If you read it in the context of popularity contest, trusting vs suspecting, no active lynch votes from the wolves, etc., it makes perfect sense to me.
By the way, wilwa, I've just become convinced that you can't possibly be a wolf. My wife says you're a kangaroo.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

OK, before I do anything else:

Firstly, as Pitch has already said, it's the other way around. Also, I don't think any of our two posts were meant totally seriously. Next you'll suggest that Pitchwife was going to create a craziness scale and vote (wait, no, lynch ) people higher up.

#60, #65, #69, #72, #77,#82, and #85 are all debating with Nog about suspecting vs. trusting. I don't know about anyone else, but I found that annoying to read through the first time (when I thought dl was fast approaching and was trying to get caught up) and extremely suspicious the next few times. Steve explains his earlier posts; qualifies his earlier posts; and flip-flops a lot, all the while arguing with Nog.
Firstly, the last of those posts was made when there were three hours until the planned DL. Three hours! If you miscalculated the time then you shouldn't attack me just because you were in a bad mood. Anyway, all I was saying in all of those posts is that in this game we're given a new weapon against the wolves. Why waste it and try to turn this into a normal game when
(a) We haven't yet explored this new style of voting; and
(b) We can't turn this into a normal game anyway because we're voting for the opposite thing?

That's not to say that no-one should post their suspicions (as I have said countless times before now). That's what a large proportion of posts are anyway. That's what needs to be done in order to do anything in this game. It's just that I don't think these fake votes are necessary.

And then everyone assumes that I'm trying to stifle people's opinions?

And since when did Nogrod become He Who Only Speaks The Truth? It seems that everyone has just blindly followed him, because he suggested that we should mention who we find suspicious, which is what we do anyway.

However, I will say this- Yesterday there were quite a few people who didn't mention who they thought was suspicious and in this way maybe Nogrod had the right idea. It was just that I thought a fake vote was going too far.

Have you? A lot of her posts are just agreeing with people. Look at this. #51 is a good point, but #61 is just the obvious (which I'll admit I did neglect to mention in my post just before). Then she comes in with a post count which isn't really that useful. The she does make quite good point in the next post (#90), but I don't think I read that at the time (and she basically just continuing along #51's line of thought anyway). The rest of her posts were after my list.

Ok, I admit it, not only was I hypocritical there, but wrong. Happy now?


Well, if you look at my list, Izzy was on the innocent side. On my vote post, I seem to have said "x-ed with Fea" rather than "since Fea". Seeing that Pitch (who I thought more innocent) had got Fea's vote, I wanted to save Izzy too, as it didn't seem like anyone would be voting Gwath (on my suspicious list, by the way). Anything wrong with that?

Now to actually start the Day...

1. Sorry, habit.
2. But I didn't read it when you were posting, I got on and read it when there was only one hour til dl. I was starting to think I would hit dl without ever finishing your little debate!
3. Yes I am happy now.
4. That last one wasn't particularly "omg that's evil!!!" just noting what you did.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

And see what I said earlier about Lottie's wolf-spotting knack.

If you think I have a wolf-spotting knack, why do you vote my top suspect?

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Glirdan and Loslote, why would Nienna talking/agreeing with Nog make him more innocent? She may be a proven innocent, but that doesn't mean that proven innocents only trust/agree with other innocents. She didn't have seer powers, so...

Nienna is a known innocent, therefore she was not trying to mislead us, so we can take what she says at face value. That, plus the fact that Nog does look innocent, leads me to trust him.

EDIT: xed with Pitchie

[Loslote]

I will be on off and on toDay - imprompu Superbowl party means I will have people over and will be playing board games with them, but will be able to escape when guys are hitting each other. So in case I can't get on...

++Zil
++Nog
++Glirdy

For Phantom-dumping. Last vote hopefully closer to dl.

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Izzy

Glirdan and Loslote, why would Nienna talking/agreeing with Nog make him more innocent? She may be a proven innocent, but that doesn't mean that proven innocents only trust/agree with other innocents. She didn't have seer powers, so...

I just feel having a known innocent agreeing with him makes him seem a little more trustworthy. Anything she said could be taken for what it is as we know for a fact she wasn't trying to mislead us. However, that is not my main reasoning for having trust in Nog (which could very well be misplaced for all I know). It is the fact that he has been making sound arguments and has been logical and bringing up rather important points and thoughts.

Yet, as I stated in post #246, there is the possibility that he is a Wolf. I really am inclined to keeping him around due to his logic and reasoning, yet it is entirely possible that he is manipulating everything. Only way to find that out for sure would be to have him lynched or if he was Night killed.

Now on to Nog's list of last minute votes for Izzy at the end of the Day.

Originally Posted by Nog

.59 Inzil -> Izzy ("Now it's just two way with her and Gwath", he said earlier: "I hate for Izzy to go, really")
.59 Eönwë -> Izzy ("Because Gwath seems more suspicious.")
.00 Brinn -> Izzy ("I don't see anything particularly suspicious with Izzy, but is it worth voting for her if it's just going to create a messy tie situation? Though it look like only a two-way tie now..") + -> Fea (deciding on the Simon-role)
.00 Nerwen -> Izzy ("Ties her up with Gwath, I know... sorry...")

It is highly unlikely that there is no Wolf in that group, and out of all four, Eonwe and Nerwen stand out the most for their lack of reasoning. Nerwen's vote was the last of the Day and the deciding vote on who was to be lynched. Yet Eonwe voted with a mere explanation of "he's more suspicious." Care to explain why you thought so?

EDIT: X'd with Lottie times 2

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Lottie

If you think I have a wolf-spotting knack, why do you vote my top suspect?

Because I happen not to find him suspicious (yet). And I partially voted you as a safeguard in case I'm mistaken about him, so be content.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Because I happen not to find him suspicious (yet). And I partially voted you as a safeguard in case I'm mistaken about him, so be content.

*is content*

And, the Izzy-votes did not come as a surprise. They had all been saying "Oh I really want to vote her but I don't want to tie anything" without seeming to notice the other, what, three people saying the same thing.