Man behind the Mythology - Page 6 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mariska Greenleaf · 03-12-2004, 03:58 AM

Ok, I must admit I made a little mistake, I don't know if it matters much, but the question should have been:

Tolkien referred to someone as "Olympian", so not "an" Olympian...

Anyway, a hint: initials: W.R., and according to Tolkien not a good lecturer.

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-12-2004, 08:15 AM

Ah, the initials did the trick - thank you! It was Walter Raleigh of whom Tolkien was speaking to G. S. Gordon; his reason for calling him 'Olympian' is quite amusing:

Quote:

I only really meant that he reposed gracefully on a lofty pinnacle above my criticism. (Letter 46)

Mariska Greenleaf · 03-12-2004, 08:23 AM

That's the guy!
Your turn again.

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-12-2004, 09:14 AM

JRRT was awarded a high honour late in life - what was it?

Mariska Greenleaf · 03-16-2004, 09:17 AM

Do you mean the honorary doctorate at Oxford in 1972 for his work in philology?

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-16-2004, 10:40 AM

That's an honour too, but I was thinking more along the lines of national honour...

Mariska Greenleaf · 03-17-2004, 02:15 AM

Then you must mean the CBE he received from the Queen!

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-17-2004, 09:20 AM

That's the one I was thinking of - well done, Mariska!

Mariska Greenleaf · 03-17-2004, 09:35 AM

Thanks.

"May God bless you, my dear John Ronald, and may you say the things I have tried to say long after I am not there to say them, if such be my lot."

Who adressed Tolkien in this way?

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-19-2004, 02:22 AM

It took me awhile to figure out where to begin to look for this quote, and when I thought about how few people would have addressed him as "John Ronald" and thought similarly enough to want him to speak for them, I found the answer quite quickly. It was G. B. (Geoffrey Bache) Smith, one of the members of the T.C.B.S., in a letter written shortly before his death in WWI. It begins as follows:

Quote:

My chief consolation is that if I am scuppered tonight - I am off on duty in a few minutes - there will still be left a member of the great T.C.B.S. to voice what I dreamed and what we all agreed upon. For the death of one of its members cannot, I am determined, dissolve the T.C.B.S. Death can make us loathsome and helpless as individuals, but it cannot put an end to the immortal four!

Mariska Greenleaf · 03-19-2004, 03:21 AM

Very good.

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-20-2004, 03:18 AM

Which was JRRT's first published work, and when and where was it published?

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 03-21-2004, 01:07 PM

It was his poem The Battle of the Eastern Field, which was published in The King Edward's School Chronicle in March 1911.

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-22-2004, 02:25 AM

Quite right, Squatter - do I remember rightly that it was about some ball game match? I can't find a reference to the contents right now.

Estelyn Telcontar · 03-31-2004, 06:36 AM

Looks like Squatter is temporarily absent, so since the 10-day limit is up, I'll post another question. It would be a shame to let this good thread die an untimely death!

Which of Tolkien's sons experienced a loss that led JRRT to tell and write which story?

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-05-2004, 01:46 AM

Anyone want to try?

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 04-06-2004, 06:26 AM

Michael Tolkien lost a small toy dog on the beach while on holiday. Roverandom was written mainly to cheer him up.

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-06-2004, 07:04 AM

Quite right, Squatter! Though the boy in the story had no name, he was called 'little boy Two', since Michael was JRRT's second son.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 04-06-2004, 03:32 PM

In J. I. M. Stewart's A Memorial Service, a brief posthumous appearance is made by a character who appears to have been based on Tolkien. What is his name?

Mariska Greenleaf · 04-07-2004, 02:50 AM

Could it be Timbermill?

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 04-07-2004, 09:04 AM

The author of The Magic Quest himself. Professor Timbermill it is.

Mariska Greenleaf · 04-07-2004, 09:17 AM

Tolkien criticised(sp) Lewis's work "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" because according to Jrr Lewis didn't develop a careful mythology as basis.
What subtitle did he give to this work of Lewis?

Bêthberry · 04-07-2004, 09:56 AM

Are you referring to Tolkien's comment to Roger Green?

Tolkien dismissed LWW after hearing it read with the complaint, "Nymphs and their Ways, The Love-Life of a Faun"

Mariska Greenleaf · 04-07-2004, 12:41 PM

That was exactly what I was looking for.

Bêthberry · 04-08-2004, 07:21 AM

Hrum, Hroom Let me not be too hasty getting a new question up!

What did Tolkien tell Nevill Coghill about Treebeard?

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-08-2004, 11:06 AM

He told him that he modeled Treebeard's way of speaking on C. S. Lewis' booming voice. Hm, hoom!

Bêthberry · 04-08-2004, 08:34 PM

Ent that the truth Estelyn.

Your go.

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-09-2004, 10:17 AM

Which two characters in Tolkien's works are quite autobiographical, telling us about his thoughts and feelings more directly than any other characters?

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-16-2004, 06:47 AM

I didn't think that this question was so difficult - do you want a minor hint?

Bêthberry · 04-16-2004, 07:57 AM

Oh, Estelyn, I have a Niggling reply in mind but I had a Major feeling that I should stand back and let others try their hand.

Estelyn Telcontar · 04-21-2004, 04:59 AM

Well, instead of an answer, Bêthberry gave another hint - anyone want to try?

Bêthberry · 05-07-2004, 01:42 PM

Well, Esty, I guess I was simply too cryptic.

Leaf by Niggle I would say, and Smith of Wootton Major, to be more plain about it.

Edit: shame about the Sniggle. Must have been thinking of Nmith.

Estelyn Telcontar · 05-07-2004, 02:00 PM

Right answer, Bêthberry - nothing to niggle at! Your turn...

Bêthberry · 05-08-2004, 01:49 PM

Right, then, Estelyn, here's my go at it.

Tolkien praised one of his illustrators very highly. He said that the pictures "are more than illustrations; they are a collateral theme."

Of whom was he speaking?

Son of Númenor · 05-08-2004, 01:55 PM

Might it be Pauline Baynes?

Bêthberry · 05-08-2004, 08:11 PM

It might indeed, Son of Númenor. Your go. And welcome to this thread.

Son of Númenor · 05-08-2004, 08:29 PM

Which Lord of the Rings character's name was not-so-subtly derived from the name of one of J.R.R. Tolkien's real-life neighbours in Sarehole?

Bêthberry · 05-08-2004, 09:50 PM

Well now, there was apparently an old farmer who had chased young Ronald for picking mushrooms à la Farmer Maggot, but I think he has come down to us known only by the moniker of "the Black Orgre." And the miller's son was nicknamed "The White Ogre" but again, we lack an historical name.

Yet there was a Birmingham man who invented a surgical bandaid (plaster?) which became known as "gamgee-tissue", derived from his name, Dr. Gamgee. In the Warwickshire dialect 'gamgee' meant cotton wool. And that's how he came to be named, our Sam, I am suggesting.

Son of Númenor · 05-09-2004, 07:20 AM

It seems, sadly, that I have been misinformed. I was operating under the impression that Mr. Samson Gamgee was a neighbor of J.R.R. Tolkien's in Sarehole. In fact, Tolkien was unaware of Mr. Gamgee at the time that The Lord of the Rings was published. It was only after the book was published that Mr. Gamgee, a local Birmingham man and notable inventor as you said Bêth, became known to Tolkien.

Quote:

Gamgee is quite a different matter. In my early days gamgee was the word we used for what is/was more generally called 'cotton-wool'.....Recently in the English Place Names Society volumes on Gloucestershire (vol. iii) I came across forms that could conceivably explain the curious Gamgee as a variant of the not uncommon surname Gamage (Gammage, Gammidge). This name is ultimately derived from a surname de Gamaches....but early records of the forms of this name in England, as Gamages, de Gamagis, de Gemegis, might well provide a variant Gamagi > Gamgee.

Your reference to Samson Gamgee is thus very interesting. Since he is mentioned in a book on Birmingham Jewry, I wonder if this family was also Jewish. In which case the origin of the name might be quite different. Not that a name of French or Francized form is impossible for a Jewish surname, especially if it is one long established in England. We now associate Jewish names largely with German, and with a colloquial Yiddish that is predominantly German in origin.* But the lingua franca of mediaeval Jewry was (I was told by Cecil Roth, a friend of mine) of French or mixed French-Provencal character. (Letters, 324)

Samwise Gamgee's name was not a derivation of Samson Gamgee's. Therefore my initial question was flawed and, since Bêth provided the factually accurate answer, I yield the floor.

Apologies,
Númenor

Bêthberry · 05-09-2004, 05:57 PM

Such are the conflations of memory and art, Son of Númenor, wherein we make our meaning. No great error, I would think. As Tolkien himself said, what if a Mr. S. Gollem should appear on his doorstep!

Which brings me to my question now. In honour of Mother's Day (at least in North America, although not in England), let me ask this.

In what way was Tolkien's engagement to Edith Bratt similar to Mabel Suffield's engagement to Arthur Tolkien?

03-12-2004, 03:58 AM	#201
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	Ok, I must admit I made a little mistake, I don't know if it matters much, but the question should have been: Tolkien referred to someone as "Olympian", so not "an" Olympian... Anyway, a hint: initials: W.R., and according to Tolkien not a good lecturer. __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

03-12-2004, 08:23 AM	#203
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	That's the guy! Your turn again. __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

03-12-2004, 09:14 AM	#204
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	JRRT was awarded a high honour late in life - what was it? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-16-2004, 09:17 AM	#205
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	Do you mean the honorary doctorate at Oxford in 1972 for his work in philology? __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

03-16-2004, 10:40 AM	#206
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	That's an honour too, but I was thinking more along the lines of national honour... __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-17-2004, 02:15 AM	#207
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	Then you must mean the CBE he received from the Queen! __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

03-17-2004, 09:20 AM	#208
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	That's the one I was thinking of - well done, Mariska! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-17-2004, 09:35 AM	#209
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	Thanks. "May God bless you, my dear John Ronald, and may you say the things I have tried to say long after I am not there to say them, if such be my lot." Who adressed Tolkien in this way? __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

03-19-2004, 03:21 AM	#211
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	Very good. __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

03-20-2004, 03:18 AM	#212
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Which was JRRT's first published work, and when and where was it published? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-21-2004, 01:07 PM	#213
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	It was his poem The Battle of the Eastern Field, which was published in The King Edward's School Chronicle in March 1911. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

03-22-2004, 02:25 AM	#214
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Quite right, Squatter - do I remember rightly that it was about some ball game match? I can't find a reference to the contents right now. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

03-31-2004, 06:36 AM	#215
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Looks like Squatter is temporarily absent, so since the 10-day limit is up, I'll post another question. It would be a shame to let this good thread die an untimely death! Which of Tolkien's sons experienced a loss that led JRRT to tell and write which story? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-05-2004, 01:46 AM	#216
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Anyone want to try? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-06-2004, 06:26 AM	#217
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	Michael Tolkien lost a small toy dog on the beach while on holiday. Roverandom was written mainly to cheer him up. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

04-06-2004, 07:04 AM	#218
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Quite right, Squatter! Though the boy in the story had no name, he was called 'little boy Two', since Michael was JRRT's second son. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-06-2004, 03:32 PM	#219
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	In J. I. M. Stewart's A Memorial Service, a brief posthumous appearance is made by a character who appears to have been based on Tolkien. What is his name? __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

04-07-2004, 02:50 AM	#220
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	Could it be Timbermill? __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

04-07-2004, 09:04 AM	#221
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	The author of The Magic Quest himself. Professor Timbermill it is. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

04-07-2004, 09:17 AM	#222
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	Tolkien criticised(sp) Lewis's work "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" because according to Jrr Lewis didn't develop a careful mythology as basis. What subtitle did he give to this work of Lewis? __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

04-07-2004, 09:56 AM	#223
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	A split in the friendship Are you referring to Tolkien's comment to Roger Green? Tolkien dismissed LWW after hearing it read with the complaint, "Nymphs and their Ways, The Love-Life of a Faun" __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

04-07-2004, 12:41 PM	#224
Mariska Greenleaf Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dublin Posts: 1,036	That was exactly what I was looking for. __________________ I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.- Confucius.

04-08-2004, 07:21 AM	#225
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	What are friends for? Hrum, Hroom Let me not be too hasty getting a new question up! What did Tolkien tell Nevill Coghill about Treebeard? __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

04-08-2004, 11:06 AM	#226
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	He told him that he modeled Treebeard's way of speaking on C. S. Lewis' booming voice. Hm, hoom! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-08-2004, 08:34 PM	#227
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Ent that the truth Estelyn. Your go. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

04-09-2004, 10:17 AM	#228
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Which two characters in Tolkien's works are quite autobiographical, telling us about his thoughts and feelings more directly than any other characters? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-16-2004, 06:47 AM	#229
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I didn't think that this question was so difficult - do you want a minor hint? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

04-16-2004, 07:57 AM	#230
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Oh, Estelyn, I have a Niggling reply in mind but I had a Major feeling that I should stand back and let others try their hand. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

04-21-2004, 04:59 AM	#231
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Well, instead of an answer, Bêthberry gave another hint - anyone want to try? __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

05-07-2004, 01:42 PM	#232
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Well, Esty, I guess I was simply too cryptic. Leaf by Niggle I would say, and Smith of Wootton Major, to be more plain about it. Edit: shame about the Sniggle. Must have been thinking of Nmith. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bêthberry; 05-07-2004 at 01:48 PM.

05-07-2004, 02:00 PM	#233
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Right answer, Bêthberry - nothing to niggle at! Your turn... __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

05-08-2004, 01:49 PM	#234
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	worth a thousand words Right, then, Estelyn, here's my go at it. Tolkien praised one of his illustrators very highly. He said that the pictures "are more than illustrations; they are a collateral theme." Of whom was he speaking? __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

05-08-2004, 01:55 PM	#235
Son of Númenor A Shade of Westernesse Join Date: May 2004 Location: The last wave over Atalantë Posts: 515	:) Might it be Pauline Baynes? __________________ "This miserable drizzling afternoon I have been reading up old military lecture-notes again:- and getting bored with them after an hour and a half. I have done some touches to my nonsense fairy language - to its improvement."

05-08-2004, 08:11 PM	#236
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	It might indeed, Son of Númenor. Your go. And welcome to this thread. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

05-08-2004, 08:29 PM	#237
Son of Númenor A Shade of Westernesse Join Date: May 2004 Location: The last wave over Atalantë Posts: 515	Merry Wollstonecraft? Charles Arwen? Tolkien's neighbour.... Which Lord of the Rings character's name was not-so-subtly derived from the name of one of J.R.R. Tolkien's real-life neighbours in Sarehole? __________________ "This miserable drizzling afternoon I have been reading up old military lecture-notes again:- and getting bored with them after an hour and a half. I have done some touches to my nonsense fairy language - to its improvement."