WWJ V: The Broken Souls

[Valier]

Well....that is horrible.....And to think I wanted to keep you around another day Thinlo........Bad choice maybe? anyways farewell oh cruel world!!!!

Edit: Yes I am bitter!!! I did not want to go yet!

[Thinlómien]

Valier, I hope you're a wolf.
Nogrod, I hope you're innocent or gifted.

Otherwise, I've just made a big and maybe fatal mistake.

EDIT: cross-posted with Valier

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Valier

Well....that is horrible.....And to think I wanted to keep you around another day Thinlo........Bad choice maybe? anyways farewell oh cruel world!!!!

Edit: Yes I am bitter!!! I did not want to go yet!

I'm very sorry, my-dear-what-ever-you-are. Life is making choices.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Voting is now closed, people who voted for Valier and Naria, since you voted for Witch_Queen expect your red marks soon.
And once again, Gifteds please note that since 13 people started this day be careful what you do tonight.

[Sleepy Ranger]

And so it was that the thirteen survivors had decided that Valier would be headed to her death at the end of this day. But then just as it had been the night before they all dropped one at a time. They awoke to the loud screams of insanity coming from the direction of the fountain. Upon arriving there they saw Witch_Queen pointing at something in front of the fountain and jumping up and down, was that terror in her eyes? No it was the pure joy of insanity. Valier stood on her head where Witch_Queen was pointing. "G...guys... help... th..they said if I move I'll die! I don't want to die! HELP ME!" She looked ready to burst into tears but the villagers remained un-moving.

Naria seemed moved enough to help her, in fact she began to take a few steps forward only to get pulled back by Thinlomien, "She is our foe you fool, do not go near her, she will strike if you do." hissed Thinlomien. "G..guys please I...I can't stand like this much longer." stammered Valier. "You can not fool us wolf! We know what you are!" Shouted Thinlomien, this was it, Valier snapped as tears began to flow from her fear-worn eyes she began to fall forwards. "NO!" Naria let out a cry stumbling forward but it was too late Valier's back snapped in half and her head met her feet. She looked at the people in front of her with wide eyes as blood began to run out of her eyes, the ground serving as the goblet for the fountain.

The fear of death had ended whatever accent Valier had ever used but as she wept tears she uttered one final word, "Vhy?" and then it was all over. The vampiric fountain had stolen all her blood and then all of a sudden Witch_Queen let out a scream, everyone turned to her and watched in shock as she began to vomit blood. It seemed to go on forever causing JennyHallu to throw up (luckily it wasn't blood in her case) but finally all of Witch_Queen's blood had been drunk by the fountain and her lifeless body fell to the ground.

All of a sudden the fountain began to rumble, the eleven left alive watched on in fear as the blood began to rise as a pillar, "Time to earn your stripes my young ones!" said the bodiless voice. The fountain spat a drop of blood onto Naria's cheek, it burned into her skin forming a red mark. She clutched her cheek in pain. The fountain then spat out drops at Encaitare, Roa_Aoife, Nogrod and Thinlomien. Each of them re-acted the same way Naria had as the blood embedded itself into their cheek. Grimacing through the pain Naria looked hard at Thinlomien, "You fool!" she muttered sending a hard punch to her newly recieved wound causing her to faint. Naria just stood there looking at the unconscious Thinlomien. Today they had killed two innocents.

Alive

JennyHallu - The friendly neighborhood nutcase waving a doomsday sign around
Roa_Aoife(i) - Babysitter, the blonde, large chested one that always runs upstairs when she should be running out of the house
Nogrod(i) - Post-Structuralist musician
Thinlomien(i) - Sculpter specialiazing in making nightmarish birds.
Naria(i) - Butcher
Gil-Galad - Bell Ringer
Anguirel - Herald at arms
Eonwe - Gold Miner
Valesse - Poultry gender analysist
Holbytlass - Governess
Encaitare(i) - a scientist who specializes in analyzing small pebbles and other silly things

Dead

Sleepy Ranger (mod) - Impaled on a cupid's arrow with his head nearly cut off.
THE Ka (werewolf) - Moreish Pavlovian Psychologist - Had her legs cut off.
Littlemanpoet (innocent) - Traveling minstrel/bard - Had an eye gouged out and his hair ripped off.
Valier (innocent) - Cruel Duchess - Had her back snapped and wept tears of blood till death.
Witch_Queen (innocent) - Homeless guy - Died due to loss of too much blood through vomitting.

Seer, wolves, hunter and ranger, you know what you have to do.

[Sleepy Ranger]

The ten who survived the night awoke and looked at the grim scene at the fountain. Valier and Witch_Queen were no longer around and now in there place lay Holbytlass, her eyes were now empty sockets and stomach carved open, beside her lay various different organs pulled out from her. On her lap lay her brain. Near her lay tiny flecks of something, upon closer inspection it was found to be her eyes. Pinned into her brain was a note, "Seer" it read. As the rest she too had no blood in her, the fountain seemed to be smiling at them.

The villagers looked at each other, the fountain seemed to be the cause of all their troubles. This one fountain, this one bloody fountain. The voice of their host spoke up, "Jolly good you've killed the seer! Lets see who you kill today, I really can't wait! I mean look some of you now bear the marks of death! Lovely, lovely, lovelah!" The ten survivors looked at each other, it would be a long day and an even longer night.

Alive

JennyHallu - The friendly neighborhood nutcase waving a doomsday sign around
Roa_Aoife(i) - Babysitter, the blonde, large chested one that always runs upstairs when she should be running out of the house
Nogrod(i) - Post-Structuralist musician
Thinlomien(i) - Sculpter specialiazing in making nightmarish birds.
Naria(i) - Butcher
Gil-Galad - Bell Ringer
Anguirel - Herald at arms
Eonwe - Gold Miner
Valesse - Poultry gender analysist
Encaitare(i) - a scientist who specializes in analyzing small pebbles and other silly things

Dead

Sleepy Ranger (mod) - Impaled on a cupid's arrow with his head nearly cut off.
THE Ka (werewolf) - Moreish Pavlovian Psychologist - Had her legs cut off.
Littlemanpoet (innocent) - Traveling minstrel/bard - Had an eye gouged out and his hair ripped off.
Valier (innocent) - Cruel Duchess - Had her back snapped and wept tears of blood till death.
Witch_Queen (innocent) - Homeless guy - Died due to loss of too much blood through vomitting.
Holbytlass (seer) - Governess

---
Sorry for starting late, I got held up.

[Anguirel]

Well, this will be the only post I'll be able to make this evening.

Holby does have bad luck as a Seer, poor thing.

I knew she was one of the Seers because of a hint she slipped me while mocking my accusation of her on the second morning.

She said "I should throw an anvil at you, Ang". This was a clear reference to me to a time long ago when one of my ancestors, a blacksmith (hence the anvil hint), accused Holbytlass not knowing she was the Seer. I realised that history was repeating itself and Holby must be one of the Seers.

I hinted that I'd understood before backing off.

If you think this admission makes me look suspicious, frankly I agree with you, and I'd vote for me in the blink of an eye were I not me, but that's life...and death.

[Anguirel]

One last point before I rush off-this implicates Encaitare as well as me. She was in the village where I was a blacksmith and might have been able to decode the hint.

[Thinlómien]

Now this is no good for the village. Two innocents and the seer dead.

I really hope Nogrod's not a wolf. Because I saved him last Day. I've been agonizing over this (whether he's a wolf or not) the whole RL day. I guess my fate is entwined with his; if he's a wolf and he is lynched, I will be surely lynched the next day for saving a wolf.
I am really sorry Valier. (I hope your ghost can hear me...)

What do you guys/gals think about the red marks? I found them pretty strange, I can see no logic unless... Could it be that they are the five ordos? Or the gifteds and the wolves? Or are they just random confusion-creators?

An Ang... I don't know what are you trying to say with that. In what post did Holby say she wants to throw an anvil on you?

[Roa_Aoife]

If you think this admission makes me look suspicious, frankly I agree with you, and I'd vote for me in the blink of an eye were I not me, but that's life...and death.

I don't know- there was a list that Holby posted somewhere (I can't find it yet) of people she didn't suspect. I think your name was on it. I remember because my name and Nogrods was on it too, and I thought it was odd at the time because Nogrod was acting fairly suspicious.

EDIT: Cross posted with Thin. I think the red marks are for voting for the lynched innocents.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

What do you guys/gals think about the red marks? I found them pretty strange, I can see no logic unless... Could it be that they are the five ordos? Or the gifteds and the wolves? Or are they just random confusion-creators?

Both first ones would sound in some sense too obvious, but then again, there would in that case still be nastily a choice to make... So it might be. The nastiness resides of course in the fact, that all of us know, which one of them is the right one, but the wolves will deny it... and then we kill the wolves, because they are the only ones to deny the facts... hmmm.... this requires some thinking. It has to be something different, I suppose.

Holby's archives surely demand our attention now, and I think it would be useful for more than one of us to see them through. Four eyes can see more than two, and six even more.

I'll be in RL for some hours, but will be back in couple of hours time...

EDIT: X-posted with Roa

[Roa_Aoife]

Found it. It's this post.

Originally Posted by Holbytlass

Don't find suspicious at this moment: Anguriel,Nogrod (despite the heated posts) and Roa_Aoife.

This was posted on Day 2, so that would be two nights of dreaming, and her fellow seer. (Nogrod if you're the seer again, I'll die laughing.)

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The nastiness resides of course in the fact, that all of us know, which one of them is the right one, but the wolves will deny it... and then we kill the wolves, because they are the only ones to deny the facts... hmmm....

I guess it would go to that both the gifteds and the wolves would be claiming "I'm the ranger"-kind of things and it would be a nasty war over the other group's trust.

But probably no need to speculate, since I do believe Roa made up the correct answer, if the facts are correct. I don't have time to check, I hope someone else checks it, if Roa hasn't done that already.

Me leaves now. I will be back toDay, but no idea when. Probably many hours before the voting time.

EDIT: cross-posted with Roa_Aoife

[Encaitare]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

One last point before I rush off-this implicates Encaitare as well as me. She was in the village where I was a blacksmith and might have been able to decode the hint.

I didn't catch that, actually. I thought it was just her joking around. I don't think that fact would condemn you, though, as a wolf-Anguirel would have not acknowledged it, hoping it would go unnoticed.

Holby didn't post much, but here is a summary of all her posts:

DAY 1

16 – Checks in.
24 – Writes that the most vocal get the highest suspicion and are lynched
25 – Joking reply to something Anguirel said about poetry.
51 – Says that Valier, Jenny, and Naria are particularly concerned about looking at quiet villagers. Votes for Naria.

DAY 2

110 – Mourns LMP, thinks at least one wolf voted for Ka. Says she ought to whack Anguirel with an anvil.
173 – Lists in detail who voted for whom. Does not suspect Anguirel, Nogrod, and Roa (is pretty certain they're innocent). Valesse, Gil-Galad, and Witch_Queen are also not suspected at this time. Mildly suspects Eonwe, Valier, and Encaitare all due to voting placement. Top suspects are Naria (due to previous suspicion and “safe bandwagon vote”) and Thinlomien (because of voting position and the possibility that Ka voted for her to separate them).
185 – Votes for Thinlomien, and agrees that Witch_Queen should be taken out for not participating.

Jenny is the only person who is not mentioned, which is odd. Perhaps Holby just forgot about her?

So her suspicion can be said to be in this order:
1. Thinlomien
2. Naria
3. Eonwe, Valier, Encaitare
4. Valesse, Gil-Galad, Witch_Queen
5. Anguirel, Nogrod, Roa_Aoife

Now, she only got two dreams, I believe. Did she hit the mark with Thinlomien or Naria? Or maybe she dreamed of someone towards the bottom of the list and was therefore assured of their innocence. It's possible, even likely, that she dreamed of Anguirel and found out that he was innocent, and therefore felt safe dropping the anvil hint. Also, she wrote that she thought at least one wolf voted for Ka; the only person she highly suspects who voted for Ka is Thinlomien. Perhaps she dreamed that Lommy was a wolf?

(On a side note, one gains a red mark after voting for an innocent whom the villagers have killed.)

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, she wrote that she thought at least one wolf voted for Ka; the only person she highly suspects who voted for Ka is Thinlomien. Perhaps she dreamed that Lommy was a wolf?

I don't think so Enca. In the game of WW, one can only be certain of someone else's innocense if one is a wolf or a seer who dreams about them. I think either Ang or Nogrod is the other seer, and they dreamed about me and whichever one isn't the seer. I don't think she would have posted that she didn't find us suspicious otherwise.

[Encaitare]

I apologize, Roa, for I believe I just phrased something poorly.

This is from Holby's post #173:

Originally Posted by Holbytlass

Don't find suspicious at this moment: Anguriel,Nogrod (despite the heated posts) and Roa_Aoife.

Valesse I'm leaning towards less suspicious 'cause at the time of her vote there were plenty of others to vote for if she were a wolf. Gil-Galad and WitchQueen I put in this group for now because I don't see wolves being this downright unvocal and bringing undo suspicion on themselves.

Whereas I wrote in summary:

Originally Posted by me

Does not suspect Anguirel, Nogrod, and Roa (is pretty certain they're innocent). Valesse, Gil-Galad, and Witch_Queen are also not suspected at this time.

Nowhere did she say she was "certain" of anyone's innocence, but I used that phrase to differentiate between not finding someone suspicious, as with the first group, and finding someone "less suspicious," as with the second group. My bad. It is likely that the other Seer is in the first group, though.

[Roa_Aoife]

Nowhere did she say she was "certain" of anyone's innocence, but I used that phrase to differentiate between not finding someone suspicious, as with the first group, and finding someone "less suspicious," as with the second group. My bad. It is likely that the other Seer is in the first group, though.

Thank you for clarifying. I'm still not so sure I agree with you though. Since Holby was the seer, she knew that list would be looked at in event of her death. I think she left the list of "not found suspicious" on purpose, to let us know what she knew.

[Anguirel]

Roa, whether intentionally or not, you're being injudicious in constantly bringing up the other Seer as part of Holby's list of innocents. You are possibly narrowing down the wolvish to kill list.

However, Holby is a shrewd and secretive player and would not necessarily have risked her fellow Seer's life by listing them as innocent. I say we leave aside the whole Seer question. That's not your business, if you're innocent.

And I wouldn't mind surviving to the end for once, so I'd rather the wolves weren't (mistakenly or not) drawn to me by your bumbling identifications like moths to a flame.

I still suspect Enca and will probably vote for her in the morning. We have too much of a past in common.

The red marks are clearly bestowed on those who lynch innocents. That's the best innovation Sleepy's come up with yet, methinks. I wonder whether it will make us more or less lynch-happy, or not change much.

[Eonwe]

I also suspect Enca, because of her voting for THE Ka. Still. And if you already suspect her, the analysis of Holby is further fuel for the fire: it is easy to believe that she is twisting Holby's evidence in her wolfish favor.

As for me, I'm sorry I didn't vote yesterDay. Got caught up in RL activities, and it slipped my mind. But rest assured, I would have voted Enca.

[Nogrod]

So it's come to this.

Now Holby's list of "don't find suspicious" is Anguirel, Roa and me. This surely will be the wolves' killing list as well. So let's be careful with this, and try to eliminate one wolf today.

He had only two dreams, so at best only one of us is a hunch (or better grounded belief). That regrettably has some consequences about her suspicious-list. If she knew one wolf, he only knew one innocent. This is going to be tough!

Why I say so, is that my own hunches seem to be similar with Holby. I can't see Roa as a wolf, as she was the one to get us the real reason, why THE Ka was the wolf. From the others, Anguirel seems one of the least suspicious, although I must admit this being a hunch too.

Then. I was already letting off my suspicion over Naria (interpreting her action on the basis of purely "outside the game" dislikes - and I guess she could build a quite believable case on this). But as I reread some of the posts from the whole history of the game, I found one interesting case.

At post #191 Naria voted for WQ! Holby suspected Naria to begin with, on grounds of a "safe vote", and it seems, she made a "safe vote" at the day two also! For according to the rules, the person who will not post in two days is removed, and still she voted for WQ, who was on her way of "removal" anyhow!

Even if I have promised myself to be easier from now on, as not to offend anyone as much as I clearly have done - I just can't help reminding you others, that when I suggested her being very keen to vote for me after Roa apologized her wrong information about the lynches (double lynches were on!), she was quick enough to sarcastically note, that she had read the rules and knew them... So why to vote someone, a rules-knowing person would know, would be taken off anyhow? I do find this quite suspicious...

But better cases sure are needed. We are now in the twilight hours: one or two bad judgements at the vote, and we are dead, one or two good ones, and we win.

[JennyHallu]

Oh no! We lost one of our seers.

I'm checking in, I don't really have time to stay tonight. We've been spending a lot of time on who Holby thought was innocent. I think Ang is right. Of himself, Roa, and Ang, at least two are probably Holbytlass's dreamees. I also agree with Ang that the second seer is probably NOT in that list--Holby's too savvy for that.


But as for suspects, neither Enca nor Naria, really seem that suspicious. My eyes are really more on Gil and Lommy. Gil's near-silence and unexplained votes (completely aside from the fact that it was for me..hehe) strike me as a great cover for a proverbially quiet wolf.

And Lommy is loud, but she doesn't seem to make any risky statements. She follows what others say, and she seems to flip-flop a lot in her opinions.

These two seem to be offering us two completely different sides of the coin, and in my opinion both are equally likely to be wolvish.

[Nogrod]

[JennyHallu]But as for suspects, neither Enca nor Naria, really seem that suspicious. My eyes are really more on Gil and Lommy. Gil's near-silence and unexplained votes (completely aside from the fact that it was for me..hehe) strike me as a great cover for a proverbially quiet wolf.

Do you have something to clear Enca or Naria? Both Anguirel and Eonwe have been suspecting Enca, and I have been suspecting Naria (along Holby etc.). So could you spell out some reasons, why they are not wolves? Saying that they "really don't seem that suspicious" is basically saying nothing.

And Lommy is loud, but she doesn't seem to make any risky statements. She follows what others say, and she seems to flip-flop a lot in her opinions.

These two seem to be offering us two completely different sides of the coin, and in my opinion both are equally likely to be wolvish.

Lommy is one, I will have to turn my attention more over to. That is sure. She plays with the flood-style - which I admit I am guilty of too sometimes - and it's hard to see the core from there. Maybe we should see again Roa's heroic analysis of Thin'lo, and add to them her posts after that.

Gil is more problematic. His vote yesterday - to Jenny - was just outrageous! If he's not going to come by with some good explanations about the reasons for his vote and reasons for his brevity, we should really think about his dealings with some rigor.

But what if, he is just a inept gamer having weak net-access? Can we afford lynching one innocent more?

I surely would like to hear something from Gil, before the day is at an end.

[Nogrod]

And just to play the joker before going to sleep, I must ask this:

Jenny: Why you
1) do not comment the obvious suggestion I had over Naria at the post just before you (enough time between them not to X-post), but just go on claiming that she does not "really seem that suspicious"?
2) as my seemingly devoted voter, consciously forgot me from the Holby's innocent list?

Just asking....

PS. I probably will be online just occasionally the next 15 hours. I'll promise to do my best at the last two hours of the day...

[JennyHallu]

Honestly, she just doesn't seem suspicious. Yes, two people have said they will be voting for her, but neither of them have given reasons either. Anguirel, yesterday, said that her analysis was "So quick to definitively analyse her own bandwagon (and to do it so well, too) thereby effortlessly sliding from the public gaze."

This sounds like Ang is casting suspicion on her because she did a good job of analysing the votes for THE Ka.

Frankly, I just don't feel like she's wolvish. Ang and Eonwe think she is, but I'd really appreciate hearing why they think this. I admit I may be completely off-base. I don't have any evidence that could prove she's innocent. But I don't think we've heard a good case against her yet. Eonwe says she suspects her, but hasn't said a word as to why. We lost two innocents yesterday. We cannot suspect anyone of wolvishness without really good reasoning.

As for your arguments against Naria, who is not in either my innocent list or my suspected list, I didn't really think much of them one way or the other. It was my impression that the two-days rule had been exercised in one game a long time ago, and I at least hadn't ever heard it mentioned. I assumed Naria voted for WQ because she didn't feel a silent player should be in the game, but wasn't sure if Sleepy was going to institute the rule. She hadn't expressed particularly strong feelings for or against anyone during the Day...

Which is frankly a far stronger point. She made a second very safe vote. Ok, now that you have forced me to consider, I think you have a very good case. I agree with you, and I will add Naria to my list of suspects.

SO...my suspicions lie mainly with Naria, Thinlomien, and Gil. Thank you for asking me to take a closer look at your argument. I still ask for more information regarding Enca before I make a judgement either way. Ang and Eonwe are both far more experienced at the game than I, so maybe they're seeing something I wouldn't think to suspect. I am definitely willing to learn from their experience.

[JennyHallu]

Oh and your second question. I only just looked up there and saw that I listed Ang twice. Ang, Roa, and Nogrod. Forgive me. I should quit playing WW and watching TV movies at the same time.

[Naria]

SLEEPY'S RULES (methinks a mod can pretty much make up a rule of whatever they want)

These are his:

-Non-Retraceable votes
-Double Lynchings are allowed
-When making a vote please keep it in a line seperate from the rest of the post and have it in bold with two pluses (++).
-Please stay invisible for your duration of the game
-Refrain from discussing the game outside of the game area
-There shall be no posting during the night
-The dealine is 2pm EST, 3pm CST and 7pm GMT
-It may be cliched but, 'Enjoy yourself!'

Nogrod, where does it say that one gets an automatic boot if there is a 2 day no post? I don't see one. And if there are outside rules that apply to every ww game then I am not aware of them. If I was then of course I would not have voted for WQ. I was after you, but during DAY 2 I had dropped some suspicion of you and went for the person that hadn't posted yet for reasons that I had stated.

Is it me or is Nogrod having a very easy time 'swaying' people? If there was a cobbler in this game I would seriously have to look into him.

Today's narration: When I first read it, I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Then I re-read it, I know what I am and anyone that re-read it would also know. I am trying to save a now ordo Valier, and Thinlo keeps me from doing that. Valier then dies and I say "you fool" to Thinlo and punch her(Thinlo making Valier's death immenent in the voting).

I am wondering why so much attention is being brought on me....I thought I had put enough "substance" in my posts. I will defend myself if need be, as will others I'm sure(defend themselves). I feel that I am caught between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place'. I don't want to actually come out and say what I am, but I will if need be.

[Encaitare]

Just a quick one before I go to sleep. Anguirel and Eonwe, I would like an explanation of why exactly you suspect me so much. So far the only evidence you seem to present is a vote for a wolf and a good analysis, both which were beneficial to the village.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

We have too much of a past in common.

Ang, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you still referring to that anvil thing? Because if you think I remember everyone's roles from way back when, you're giving me far too much credit.

Come tomorrow morning, I think I will vote for Thinlomien, because of Holby's vote for her yesterDay, or possibly Gil, if he hasn't posted at all by the time I vote.

[Anguirel]

Yes, I was referring to the anvil thing. It seemed...just within the bounds of possibility. It's also interesting that you remember it was "way back then". I made no mention of which village I referred to. As it happens, yes, it was the second one. What a fine memory you have, Grandmother.

But there are other reasons too, Enca. Jenny isn't picking up my tone of voice when I refer to your beautiful analyses.

You were the first to analyse the Ka bandwagon, of which you were a part. As a result, subsequent voters, drawing on your source, were bound to pay more attention to Jenny and Thinlomien than you.

Likewise, as Eonwe pointed out, you were the first to analyse Holbytlass' posts. Unless we go straight to the evidence-and some will just refer to your excellent account for convenience-we could be seeing Seer clues through wolf-tinted spectacles. For instance, your hint that Thinlomien could be a wolf-consistent with your earlier analysis. A set-up gathering pace?

One sin you're not guilty of is bringing up the second Seer. I repeat, speculation on whether that role is or is not on Holby's innocent list can only help our enemies. The Seer is to be heard but not seen until s/he dies or reveals his/her identity. Roa, Nogrod, Jenny, take note!

However, I would tend to associate this transgression with inexperience (whether wolvish or not), so it's no surprise to me that Enca keeps clean.

Finally, voting record. As Eonwe said, the position of your vote was a good deal more dangerous than you make out in your analysis. You voted at the turning of the tide-a typical, expert suspicion-avoidance vote.

Then yesterday you went with the general feeling again by voting Valier. As an innocent I would have expected you to strike out in a more...well, interesting...way. But as a wolf...an excellent vote. It emanates haplessness. "Look at me, I don't know what I'm doing, I've lynched an innocent at this stage, a wolf would never knowingly do that..."

There. There's my indictment, and, jurors, you can take it or leave it.

++ENCAITARE

[Thinlómien]

Holby was the seer, but she had only two dreams. The possibility (mathematically) to catch even one wolf in two nights is very small. I think you shouldn't judge me or Naria on that basis. And if a seer doesn't know any of the wolves, she/he votes as randomly as anyone else (of course probably ruling out her/his known innocent). So please don't vote me only just because Holby didn't know I was innocent.

Now this:

Thanks to those who took out a wolf yesterDAY, I'm sure at least one fellow wolf voted for The Ka.

said by a seer I think must mean something. I think it means that Holby had dreamed about somebody of us bandwagoners and revealed he/she was a wolf. The bandwagoners are: LMP, Roa_Aoife, me, Enca and Jenny. LMP has been revealed innocent. I trust Roa, because she took THE Ka fatally into spotlight and has posted very meaningful posts. I know I'm an innocent, so I rule myself out. It leaves Enca and Jenny as possible wolves. I think I'll do some analysis on them. By gut feeling I'd rather vote for Enca, but this needs some thought.

I hope Holby wouldn't have given so differing opinions on the matter. Because:

Originally Posted by Holby

At this point: my main suspects are Naria and Thinlomien

Naria is no Ka-bandwagoner and I'm no wolf. This troubles me; you'll probably lynch me because I am on both "lists". I hope you don't. Besides that it is nasty for me, the village loses again one innocent.

If we follow Nogrod's theory that those who Holby suspected were innocent are now at the top of the wolves' killing list, we really should catch a wolf toDay. I tell you, it would be again a dead innocent and two wolves still around if you lynch me. I can't ask you not to analyse or accuse me; you have the right to do that, but please don't vote me (though you again of course have the right to do so), because lynching me would be folly.

EDIT: xposted with Anguirel

[Thinlómien]

JennyHallu analysis:
Day 1
#22 - moans Sleepy's death, says it is far too easy to point fingers only on the basis of loudness or quietness, urges people to speak
#44 - doesn't agree with THE Ka about quiet people being suspicious, says she could suspect Anguirel or Valier on the base of their "roles" (verses, "v"), says she'll try to find clues from Sleepy's posts
#97 - explains her silence, is impressed about the interpretations about Sleepy's text, finds Naria suspicious on that basis, explains why THE Ka is suspicious (Cupid's arrow, quick defense).
#105 - a vote summary

Day 2
#109 - summary of dead and alive people
#113 - questions Ang about his voting
#115 - says we should take a closer look on the Nogrod-bandwagon, says Sleepy will apparently set the clues in obvious ways
#118 - asks what is "cack-handed"
#125 - explains xpost and EDIT-mark
#126 - defends Valesse and Valier, suspects Naria and wishes Valesse a happy birthday
#140 - explains her error, urges Nogrod to relax
#157 - says quietness isn't necessarily cheating, doesn't understand Nogrod, her impression of Thinlomien is mostly innocent
#163 - defends herself, wonders why people aren't convinced about her innocence, accuses Nogrod of not listening to her and suspects him on that basis
#174 - reminds that WQ has still time to appear, asks about votes that far
#192 - Ang's vote confuses her, says that Roa and Eonwe should get more spotlight, hopes Gil will appear, votes for Nogrod (says he's to loud and accuses people too easily)

Day 3
#221 - says she won't be online for a long time today, agrees with Ang about Holby, suspects Gil (nonsense posting an silence) and Thinlomien (loudness, but no risky statements, flip-flopping)
#224 - says Enca(?) isn't suspicious, slightly accuses Ang on casting suspicion on Enca, wants to hear why people suspect Enca, says Naria is neutral to her, and then adds her to her suspicions' list because of a safe vote, restates that her suspects are Gil, Thinlomien and Naria
#225 - corrects her listing

On this basis she doesn't feel very suspicious to me. Most of the time she agrees or disagrees with other people and doesn't make new points - this is not necessarily a wolfish thing though some of you think so and I do see the point there - and her points are sometimes abit vague, but overall I'm rather sure that she's innocent.

Enca is the next to be analysed.

[Thinlómien]

Analysis on Enca
Day 1
#12 - moans Sleepy's death
#20 - says that little pressure is good for the quiet ones, but says people shouldn't be suspected solely of how much they talk
#45 - checks in, suspects she'll vote randomly
#92 - gets heated about Thinlomien's comments on her posting, asks Thinlomien what does she mean by "sound", makes a voting summary, agrees with LMP about THE Ka's self-defence and votes for THE Ka

Day 2
#120 - analyses Ka-bandwagon and says it is probable that there's one wolf, but can't say who
#145 - says we shouldn't concentrate on little things, jokes about Nogrod
#146 - agrees with Ang about the strangeness of Nogrod-bandwagon, slightly suspects Naria, defends loud people and thinks that Roa's argument about them is very suspicious, but still believes Roa innocent (early Ka-vote), thinks she will vote for WQ, defends her vote for Ka, suspects Thinlomien, Naria, Roa and Holby on Sleepy's posts, asks WQ, Gil and Valesse to speak up
#178 - has checked WQ's profile, says Gil's vote for Jenny is odd, suspects Valesse (self-defense-orientated), Gil (hasty and unexplained vote) and Valier (nonsense posts). Votes for Valier (she just echoes others), says she'll pay special attention to Gil and WQ the next day.

Day 3
#214 - says that doesn't understand Ang, makes a Holby-summary, suspects that Holby dreamed of a wolf-Thinlomien
#216 - clears her summary
#227 - would like to hear why Ang and Eonwe suspect her, says she'll probably vote for Thinlomien because Holby voted her also

That's it this far. I wouldn't find her particularly suspecting, though she's a bit too eager to analyse and make us look through lenses set by her and be helpful, if I didn't consider Holby's remarks about THE Ka-bandwagon and Ang's very convincing post and vote. Enca has been quite brief. I would like to hear more about her, though she's not one of the quitests.

innocents for sure: Thinlómien (I happened to read the PM telling me my role)
most probably innocents: Roa (put Ka into spotlight, has been meaningful)
probably innocents: Ang (if Ang was a wolf, Holby would have died earlier, besides, I don't think that wolf-Ang would have killed LMP just because he might be a tough opponent - I'm under the impression that Ang likes challenges), Jenny (I didn't find anything wolfish in her while doing my analysis), Gil-Galad (a wolf wouldn't surely be so careless)
can't say: Nogrod (has been over-aggressive, but remembering the last game, it's his playing style), Eonwe (voted quite stupidly and wolfishly in Day 1, but has been generally behaving quite well and unwolfishly - I think he's the next one who should be analysed)
my suspects: Enca, Naria (nonsense posting and being jumpy), Valesse (too little posting, is hiding too well)

[Thinlómien]

I will leave now and will be back before the voting time.

Please everyone considering voting for me during my absence: read my posts through and think again.

[Nogrod]

This is getting really interesting!

I only have a moment now, but will be back with "full effort" about two hours before the voting.

I was just wondering about the wolves killing tactics. LMP was, in the end, a clear choice: he's a smart player and thence a threat, and his getting the right one first, with kind of a single shot, is kind of seerlike. To add on that, it would look nicely like wolves showing, what happens to those who threat them. So they were running after a seer.

And the next day, they got one. Now was that just pure luck, or had they suspicions about Holby's being the seer? "The Holby archives" once again...

Why to ponder over these matters? I'd like to raise the question Thinlómien did earlier: are we facing very cunning wolves or "stupid" ones? That background thought will surely affect our judgements.

With the cunning line, I could be persuaded to back Ang's suspicion over Enca, with the less cunning line I could side the suspicions over Gil f.ex.

PS.

= NARIA: I don't want to actually come out and say what I am, but I will if need be.

This threat to reveal her identity seems quite dubious to me... as we seem to have better candidates for the seer's post around.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Thin

Eonwe (voted quite stupidly and wolfishly in Day 1, but has been generally behaving quite well and unwolfishly - I think he's the next one who should be analysed)

I actually thought of doing this last night (RL), since Eonwe seems to be slipping under the radar quite effectively.

Eonwe analysis
Day 1
1st post - nonsense
2nd - Says there is no real formula in WW, suggests waiting for the seer to announce some innocents, makes other remarks about gifted revealing themselves. Says we will be wrong in the lynchings from time to time. Votes LMP.
3rd - "Most everything about Werewolf is nonsense, my dear Lommy."
4th - "Take what you can get, I guess..."

Day 2
1st - Thinks of looking at beginning of Ka voters or near the end
2nd - Thinks Nogrod is uptight, analyzes Ka voters. Doesn't know about Roa, thinks Enca is suspicious because of vote placement. Slightly less suspicious of Thin. Not sure about Jenny.
3rd - Clarifies post 57.
4th - No longer suspects Thin, defends against Thin's posts again.
No vote

Day 3
1st - Suspects Enca for voting the Ka, but thinks that already suspecting her makes it easy to think she is twisting Holby's analysis. Says got caught up in RL, but would have voted for Enca yesterday

[Roa_Aoife]

Eonwe, why do you say that you would have voted for Enca yesterday? There wasn't a really great case for her set up yet, and you hadn't expressed suspicion of her up till that point. Do you have a reason for the sudden change?

[Roa_Aoife]

Also, when you said to look at the Ka voters, you thought to look at the beginning or end votes, not at the middle, where Enca was. That's a little too convenient for my tastes. Only in your very next post did you look at the middle, suddenly thinking Enca was suspicious. You contradicted yourself. Can you explain?

EDIT: Just letting you know that I have to go for the time being. I'll be back about an hour before voting closes.

[JennyHallu]

Thank you, Ang, for elaborating on the case against Enca. I am not sure what I think of her, it's hard to see someone as wolvish whom you thought must be innocent all along. Rather humbling. I am going to have to consider long and hard before I make my decision today.

Naria, I am absolutely taking you off my suspicious list. I may not understand your voting, but I believe you are innocent. Nogrod is once again being silly:

This threat to reveal her identity seems quite dubious to me... as we seem to have better candidates for the seer's post around.

The Seer is not the only Gifted, Nogrod. And Ang makes a good point regarding speculation on the identity of the seer. I wonder if you carefully read the day's posting, as you go right back to such speculation.

My list so far:

Probably Innocent: Myself, Ang, Roa, Naria (whew, it's nice to cross so many off my list.)

Unsure: Nogrod, Encaitare, Eonwe (You make excellent points, Roa, I wonder how Eonwe has been slipping so easily under our radar...you'd think I would have learned after Mith in my past life...)

Looking very bad: Thinlomien, Gil

A further question for Thinlomien:

The possibility (mathematically) to catch even one wolf in two nights is very small. I think you shouldn't judge me or Naria on that basis. And if a seer doesn't know any of the wolves, she/he votes as randomly as anyone else (of course probably ruling out her/his known innocent). So please don't vote me only just because Holby didn't know I was innocent.

said by a seer I think must mean something. I think it means that Holby had dreamed about somebody of us bandwagoners and revealed he/she was a wolf. The bandwagoners are: LMP, Roa_Aoife, me, Enca and Jenny.

Either you think Holby dreamed of a wolf or you don't. If she did, she only expressed suspicion of you, and said nothing about Enca or myself. (She said nothing about myself at all)

This abrupt flip-flop, in a single post, seems to me wolvish. Its best defense is that I really don't think our wolves today are so clumsy.

[Valesse]

(This seemed quite long while I was writing it, and touched on to quite a few subjects so I revised into sections.)

Response to Holby:

Originally Posted by Holby

Don't find suspicious at this moment: Anguriel,Nogrod (despite the heated posts) and Roa_Aoife.

I'm very apt to take the seer's advice over my old hunch. Since there were two bandwagon votes on the first Day (as well you know more than probably anyone else.) I'm quite certain that Holby probably dreamed of Nogrod to see if we were correctly suspecting. Projected proof is more definative than tonal evaluation.

Absence of posts:
Really, I am quite sorry about how little I have been posting but between school and my birthday I suddenly became a very busy poultry gender analysist. I'm trying to at least get a post or two in each day, which isn't much, but know that it would be much more had I the time. (And really, most of the Day occurs while I'm off in dreamland-RL.) I was unaware exactly how much was going to happen at exactly the wrong time, so please bear with me (As long as the wolves and voters allow), because I'm doing the best that I can.

Discussion at hand:
Now for something on topic. Roa brought it up, and seeing as I'm not exactly wary of her I'm very keen on looking in to it:

not so long ago there was a story about a wolf named Ang who voted for his fellow wolf named Thin on the very first day, and got her lynched. He thus avoided suspicion till the very last day.

(Or post #169 if you'd like to see the quote she used to support.)

This on top of everyone else's research into the mind that is Thinlo has really got something to say for herself.

Considering the ramifications:
If Thinlo is OR is not a wolf then we should definitely look at post #231 (Post Analysis). I'm willing to assume that Thinlo and Holby might have downplayed their known allies, but so far I have not taken that into the account in my posts so far. It just bears mentioning in my honest opinion.

[Nogrod]

JENNY: Naria, I am absolutely taking you off my suspicious list. I may not understand your voting, but I believe you are innocent. Nogrod is once again being silly:
Quote (NOGROD):
This threat to reveal her identity seems quite dubious to me...

I wouldn't like to be seen as a general prosecutor over Naria, but there sure is something odd here. I'm admittedly, just at beginners level, and maybe missing the idea here. In that case I sure would like to see me corrected on this one.

But why would anyone gifted kind of hint about her giftedness? Isn't it just like inviting the wolves to drop in the next night?

If Naria is a gifted and shouts out like that, I can't quite see her logic. I can see that gifteds either stay silent about their roles or then reveal themselves once and for all - for a reason that is good enough to die for the next night, or the next.

But still. I'm also considering Ang's suggestions. They seem quite reasonable. I'll go to see for them next. And Eonwe should be checked too, And Lommy... (with Gil, there is the problem, that there isn't much to check)

And as no-one else has kind of backed my sometime faltering, sometimes strengthening suspicions on Naria lately, I'm beginnig to waver myself with it too. I have no case against her - and don't boast to have one - but there just seems to be so many little things in there. Insiqnificant as they may be taken as themselves, but taken together, there's something odd in Naria's ways.

X-posted with Valesse. Good to see you back and posting!

[Naria]

This is were things stand with me so far:

The people who I think are innocent
ME, Jenny, Ang, Gil, Roa

Still unsure of as of now
Nogrod, Thinlo, and Eonwe

Suspicious
Valesse and Enca


My unsure of list would be because all three so far have made some very good cases. Nogrod and Thinlo are becoming more clear to me, but I am not ready to take either one out of that category as of now. Eonwe was making me suspicous but then said that if he/she would have voted yesterday he/she would have gone for Enca, I thought it to be some kind of flip-flop today but he/she did have Enca on their suspicous list. Still a no vote and the RL excuse confuses me.

My suspicous list would be because Valesse has come on briefly makes a point and leaves, then comes back on and votes for whichever one seems to be the most popular person at the time. Enca is here because I have had my suspicions about her/him. Ang has clarified this for me today and it makes sense.