WWLXXI: Something in the Night (Attempt #2)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Mostly it's that the inclusion of Lovers into this game had such possibility, and now there's really no point to it. Kind of ruins one of Gwath's game mechanics. For example, had lovers not been revealed, and I'd been the Seer, I could have easily funneled my dreams through Alona without revealing myself.

Sally, I'm not even seeing what knowing whose lover is who is going to tell us, considering wolves can be paired with innocents. What was your point in making everyone reveal?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Mostly it's that the inclusion of Lovers into this game had such possibility, and now there's really no point to it. Kind of ruins one of Gwath's game mechanics. For example, had lovers not been revealed, and I'd been the Seer, I could have easily funneled my dreams through Alona without revealing myself.

Sally, I'm not even seeing what knowing whose lover is who is going to tell us, considering wolves can be paired with innocents. What was your point in making everyone reveal?

Well I realized after I'd PM'd Gwath that 'anyone' can be paired with 'anyone'. I was under the assumption (for whatever silly reason) that wolves wouldn't be paired with each other. Erm, whoops? *headdesks* If they hadn't, however, we would have been able to deduce that if partner A is not a wolf partner B must be (or at least has a darn good chance). However I was just the least bit mistaken.


Internet hates me. Blah. Also, I'm babysitting tonight so I won't be around for the last 6.5 hours of the Day. That being said, I'm obviously going to have to vote early.

I wonder if there's any way the wolves would be stupid enough to not kill me toNight. Wilwa, if you're one of them and you let me live, I'll send you those cookies!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Mostly it's that the inclusion of Lovers into this game had such possibility, and now there's really no point to it. Kind of ruins one of Gwath's game mechanics. For example, had lovers not been revealed, and I'd been the Seer, I could have easily funneled my dreams through Alona without revealing myself.

Sally, I'm not even seeing what knowing whose lover is who is going to tell us, considering wolves can be paired with innocents. What was your point in making everyone reveal?

Yeah, but why make things easy for the gifteds?

[satansaloser2005]

Dang it. I have to leave soon-ish. Where is everyone?

[wilwarin538]

I'm here Sally.


And I'm not a wolf, but I won't vote for you, so I still want cookies.

[alonariel]

I just got back from the doctor's - bronchial infection, unfortunately. I'll be on for another hour or so, then I have to leave for work and won't be back til 3 hours before DL.

[Lariren Shadow]

I'm here. Nothing much has happened since last night, besides people figuring out who is who's lover.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Mostly it's that the inclusion of Lovers into this game had such possibility, and now there's really no point to it. Kind of ruins one of Gwath's game mechanics. For example, had lovers not been revealed, and I'd been the Seer, I could have easily funneled my dreams through Alona without revealing myself.

Sally, I'm not even seeing what knowing whose lover is who is going to tell us, considering wolves can be paired with innocents. What was your point in making everyone reveal?

Not just that, but the wolves have an added advantage. They can PM between each other and with their lover. So there is multiple levels of planning going on there. And the fact that its all out in the open means that we now know who is sharing secret ideas with who. Well, that is if we take it on face value that everyone trusts their lover.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I wonder if there's any way the wolves would be stupid enough to not kill me toNight. Wilwa, if you're one of them and you let me live, I'll send you those cookies!

I would really, really love for this to be the issue, but probably not...that's only a mistake a newbie wolf would make, and sadly I'm not a wolf this game. I just hope we could get a few more clues before the end of the Day.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Well I realized after I'd PM'd Gwath that 'anyone' can be paired with 'anyone'. I was under the assumption (for whatever silly reason) that wolves wouldn't be paired with each other. Erm, whoops? *headdesks* If they hadn't, however, we would have been able to deduce that if partner A is not a wolf partner B must be (or at least has a darn good chance). However I was just the least bit mistaken.

I still don't understand the math of how we would have been able to do this...?

And where are Nog and Rikae...?

[Rikae]

I'm here. I don't have much to say. I'm a plain ordo this time around, and I have a lot of non-WW responsibilities today, so although I'm following the discussion, I can't really muster the enthusiasm to contribute much. Sorry.

The one thing that jumped out at me was alona's weird statement that we're on the same side. I doubt she'd be so obvious if she actually knew, so I'm inclined to think she knows the opposite - knows I'm not on her side, and hopes such hinting will win my trust. Loslote either did a great job of plaqing the newbie wolf yesterDay or is innocent, and Sally is innocent unless I missed something about the narrations... that makes the chance of lynching a wolf fairly good toDay, I guess... I'll try to add more later.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Rikae

The one thing that jumped out at me was alona's weird statement that we're on the same side. I doubt she'd be so obvious if she actually knew, so I'm inclined to think she knows the opposite - knows I'm not on her side, and hopes such hinting will win my trust. Loslote either did a great job of plaqing the newbie wolf yesterDay or is innocent, and Sally is innocent unless I missed something about the narrations... that makes the chance of lynching a wolf fairly good toDay, I guess... I'll try to add more later.

Okay, so I'm learning that comments where I try to be nice don't go over so well...I think that happened a few games back for me, too. Eh, I need to grow tougher skin anyway. Her lack of posts didn't seem wolf-quiet just busy-quiet, so I assumed she was an ordo like me.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Not just that, but the wolves have an added advantage. They can PM between each other and with their lover. So there is multiple levels of planning going on there. And the fact that its all out in the open means that we now know who is sharing secret ideas with who. Well, that is if we take it on face value that everyone trusts their lover.

I think the last part of that's the sticking point. Are the wolves or Gifteds really going to give clues to their partners, not knowing what they might be?

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm here. I don't have much to say. I'm a plain ordo this time around, and I have a lot of non-WW responsibilities today, so although I'm following the discussion, I can't really muster the enthusiasm to contribute much. Sorry.

The one thing that jumped out at me was alona's weird statement that we're on the same side. I doubt she'd be so obvious if she actually knew, so I'm inclined to think she knows the opposite - knows I'm not on her side, and hopes such hinting will win my trust. Loslote either did a great job of plaqing the newbie wolf yesterDay or is innocent, and Sally is innocent unless I missed something about the narrations... that makes the chance of lynching a wolf fairly good toDay, I guess... I'll try to add more later.

I'm rather busy myself with work stuff (but it's Friday!).
That was an odd thing for alon to say, and it must be noted as at least possibly a wolfish slip. But how could she think she would 'win your trust' by it Rikae?
Loslote still gives me a bad feeling. She's more aggressive and not as logical as I'd expect, and toDay hasn't done much to alleviate that.
I see no reason Sally shouldn't be considered innocent, at this point. It seems quite clear from the narration that she was the intended kill last Night.

[Lariren Shadow]

So first of all, Alona asked me to rely that she will be at work for the next six hours.

Second I guess I'll try a list because there is nothing much else going on.

Nog: I have no read, and he is absent from the game. I honestly have no idea.

Inzil: PM partner, nothing jumping out.

Shasta: He hasn't said much, is kind of staying away. Whether from lack to time or what but I want to keep my eye on him.

Izzie: Again, no idea. Not really sure what to think.

Rikae: I don't know. She is suspicious of Alona saying they are on the same side and busy. Whether Alona is assuming they are both innocent or just saying a general we are all on the village's side it was an interesting thing to jump on.

Alona: Her arguing with Lottie is a lot like innocent Alona getting annoyed. I'm leaning towards not guilty.

Sally: Reasonably certain she is innocent. As in, right if she was the Night kill then she is innocent.

Lottie: I honestly don't like her logic at all. Most of it is flimsy. I have a really bad feeling about her. It kind of seems like she's a wolf with nothing to do and trying to make sense of it.

Wilwa: Not sure at all again. Really, no idea.

So yeah, a lot of people I have no read on, one who looks rather suspicious, and at least one I want to watch. This is super for Day 2.

[Rikae]

Nog: alona seems to think I can read her (and she had an uncanny ability to read me in RL WW), so if she's a wolf I'd expect her to try and win my trust in any event. If she knows I'm innocent (because I'm not in her pack) she may try to imply she knows it either hoping I will trust her because she trusts me (out of general good feelings), or because I'll think she's a seer. Which I don't.

And, Lari, I'm curious as to why you think it was an interesting thing for me to "jump on" - it was, after all, a very odd thing and one of the only things said about me.

[satansaloser2005]

Blah. I have to vote in twenty minutes and I'm not sure who to vote for.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sally, why do you think you were the intended kill last night?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Sally, why do you think you were the intended kill last night?

Well I'm gonna guess because I put up that big fuss yesterDay over Morsul taking Glirdan with him. *shrugs* Why would you think?

[satansaloser2005]

Harrumph. I have to leave in like five minutes. TALK, PEOPLE! *whimpers*

[satansaloser2005]

++Everyone who's not posting

Is that allowed?


Blah. I have to leave but I'll leave a list and have my trusty duckling keep my updated so if I can get on the net I can post.


Will not vote
Alona
Sally (duh)
Rikae
Wilwa

May vote
Shasta
Lottie
Lari
Izzy

Could easily vote
Nog
Dun





Will refresh once more, then I have to go.

[satansaloser2005]

Fine then. You all suck.

You probably have already guessed this, but I'm the seer, and there's no way I'm surviving anyway so it doesn't matter if I tell you.

However, since none of you are posting I'm not telling you that I dreamt two wolves.



Toodles. Be back later if I can.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Fine then. You all suck.

You probably have already guessed this, but I'm the seer, and there's no way I'm surviving anyway so it doesn't matter if I tell you.

However, since none of you are posting I'm not telling you that I dreamt two wolves.



Toodles. Be back later if I can.

I've been posting! Tell me! Tell me!

Though, if you don't come back I'm gonna go ahead and assume that the 2 wolves are the two on your list under "Could easily vote for".

But one thing that doesn't make sense is you say you dreamt 2 wolves, and there's been only 2 nights so that's very well possible. But then why were you so sure about Glirdan, when you couldn't have dreamt him, and couldn't have known for sure that he wasn't the third wolf?

I'm inclined to believe you for now, but that part doesn't really make sense to me dear.

[Nogrod]

Finally back home and read the thread. The last posts by Sally... hmm. Back in a minute.

[Nogrod]

As looks quite obvious Sally was the target last Night and was saved by the ranger (decent work ranger as we lost two on D1 - so kind of evens our double loss).

Also it looks to me quite obvious Sally dreamt of Glirdy on N1 - as agreed, the seer would like to know her pal first if he is to be trusted to play together - and thus her panic in the end of the Day.

Furthermore I see no reason to doubt Sally's reveal. And I'll bet she will eventually come back with the one known person to her she must have. But nice drama there at exit to be sure!


Now what makes me wonder is that Lottie was actually quite inquisitive about Sally's panic in the end of yesterDay. And even if her speculations ended up more or less thinking Sally innocent she wished to hear my views on possible explanations of her gifted hints. I've been more than busy - and still am, sorry about that guys - and only answered shortly that I thought that gifted-hinting was not a reasonable POV there... and then the wolves try to kill Sally the same Night.

How much did you others discuss Sally last Night? Was it something everyone talked about or...?

[Isabellkya]

I'm a bit confused about the connection between Shasta and Sally. He tried to kill her, so it would point the finger at him; which would be obvious and thus looked at like a set-up. Thus making himself looking more innocent because of it. Seems like a convoluted mess, with a bunch of thens.

I had a similar thought round one. When I was under the impression that only ordos could be paired with wolves. It was quite a scary notion. Because then the wolves would know that their partners were ordos, and if they were capable of sharing whom their lovers were - they could easily rule out three people as not being gifted. Thus leaving them six players to choose from to be a gifted. With three gifteds, it would've been a 50% chance of hitting a gifted night two. Not taking into consideration whomever was lynched. If a non-wolf paired player was lynched, the odds of hitting a gifted would've been higher. Thankfully that wasn't/isn't the case.

o.O

[Nogrod]

Another thing that makes me feel a bit suspicious started from this:

Originally Posted by alona

Rikae: Admittedly scares me (in a good way, I think), so I'm glad to have her on my side in this game.

Now some others have commented on this already but I'm also a bit worried about Rikae's answer to that comment:

Originally Posted by Rikae

The one thing that jumped out at me was alona's weird statement that we're on the same side. I doubt she'd be so obvious if she actually knew, so I'm inclined to think she knows the opposite - knows I'm not on her side, and hopes such hinting will win my trust.

But alona first. No ordo but a seer could say that - and a seer most likely wouldn't anyway unless she was to reveal (and this was before Sally came forwards anyway). Especially as she didn't say "I believe" or "I have a strong feeling", or "I have good vibes" but just plain and simple: "glad to have you on my side in this game". I know people think differently, but it's hard to see an ordo thinking like that in any circumstances, especially early on D2 basing her "knowledge" on Rikae's few posts she had made on D1!

But what about Rikae then? Now it looks like a really weird comment to suggest that alona would try to win her trust with that comment. And I guess Rikae realised it as she made a corrective move a bit later explaining alona's possible motivation a bit more. I just feel there is something fishy in there.

It could be within limits of believability that alona and Rikae actually are in cahoots here: alona made a major slip and Rikae tried to distance herself from her because of that.


Be that conspiracy theory as it may be, but I'm most probably going to vote alona again toDay. Not only because of that one thing with Rikae, but also looking at her so busy explaining herself time and time again and making comments I think were more fishy than not. I'll come back with some examples to show what I mean.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It could be within limits of believability that alona and Rikae actually are in cahoots here: alona made a major slip and Rikae tried to distance herself from her because of that.

Because this is a possibility I would be willing to go along with an Alona lynch, but I'd rather wait and see what Sally has to say about who she claims to have dreamt of. A possibly known wolf would be much more fun to vote for.

I really have nothing to do right now, and really wish there was more going on here cause my brain is in WW mode and I can't get out . (I've been spending the last 3 hours doing research for the next game I want to mod instead, since not much is happening on here.)

[satansaloser2005]

Wording is everything. I said I wouldn't tell you I'd found two wolves because I haven't. Sorry. I wish I had.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Wording is everything. I said I wouldn't tell you I'd found two wolves because I haven't. Sorry. I wish I had.

Oh. Ok then.

So you dreamt of Glirdan then?

Who did you dream of last Night?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Wording is everything. I said I wouldn't tell you I'd found two wolves because I haven't. Sorry. I wish I had.

You ought to be lynched just for that.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

You ought to be lynched just for that.

She's Sally. 'nuff said.

[Nogrod]

On alona on D2


In the beginning there is basically just some odd air around her posting - something giving me a bit similar kind of feelings she gave me yesterDay, but maybe more. Like answering the question of her role with: "Plain ordo like last game, I'm afraid." or "wondering" why the wolves didn't kill her during the Night (why would they?).


But then her own explanation to Sally's question why she was so sure Rikae was on her side is interesting to say the least:

Originally Posted by alona

I just meant we're on the side of innocents. All I know is whenever I'm evil, Rikae knows it like the back of her hand. And if she is evil...eek, well then I'm totally screwed. But I'm not really getting that vibe, hence my goodwill statement that we're on the same side.

"I just meant we're on the side of innocents"!!! Now what? If you're an innocent alona that sentence is not adding anything to what you said earlier - and doesn't explain it in any way.

But why do you feel the need to say that what you really meant, was that you both are innocents?

And it is an intresting way to phrase a "goodwill statement" by saying you "know" the other is on the same side as you...

It's hard to believe in your sincerity here alona as the other explanation would fit so nicely.


Then she tried to turn the attention to Lottie on the issue of whether Morsul and Sally were "cleared". And when it backfired she turned into suspecting Sally's innocence with some dedication.

And this sounds like a disappointed wolf brooding over unfair rules:

Originally Posted by alona

But are we even allowed to know who the wolves tried to Night kill? That would be like knowing who the Seer dreamed of or who the Hunter was hunting.

The last posts she has been mainly defending herself...


At this point of the game she's truly my best bet for a wolf. Especially because of that above quote where she answered the question on why she was so sure about Rikae being on the same side.

And if she is lynched and turns out a wolf, I think we should really look at Rikae closely toMorrow.

[Inziladun]

But anyway, can you at least give us another innocent, Sally? Assuming you really are the Seer?

[Nogrod]

Bedtime.

As Sally has not declared her innocent...


++ alona

For reasons above.


I've had a few terribly busy days now but that's the RL sometimes intruding with a game of werewolf. It should slowly ease up though.

[Nogrod]

If someone hasn't noticed this, pay heed:

Originally Posted by Gwath, concerning the ranger

they may protect the same person no more than two nights in a row. They may protect themselves once only during the game.

So we'll have Sally around toMorrow as well. Make your dream a good one Sally!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Bedtime.

As Sally has not declared her innocent...


++ alona

For reasons above.

You do make some good points about alon. That remark of hers was bizarre, and not very convincingly explained. Good catch on the Ranger rules as well.
Though alon has emerged as someone to wonder about, I'm pretty well convinced Loslote is evil, unless Sally vouches for her.
As an aside, I think all the people repeatedly declaring their innocence are evil.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Who did you dream of last Night?

The Ranger.

Alona, what are you thinking vote-wise?

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

The Ranger.

Alona, what are you thinking vote-wise?

Oh. Well at least the Ranger can protect you again toNight, and hopefully you can dream a wolf, or atleast dream an innocent that would be safe to reveal the identity of.

Now that you don't have a wolf to give us I'm not really sure who to vote for. Alona maybe, because of the case Nog made against her, though Shasta isn't sitting well with me either as I said before. I still have a few hours though to think about it.

[Rikae]

Nog, you said:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But what about Rikae then? Now it looks like a really weird comment to suggest that alona would try to win her trust with that comment. And I guess Rikae realised it as she made a corrective move a bit later explaining alona's possible motivation a bit more. I just feel there is something fishy in there.

Lari didn't seem to get what I meant, so I explained it more. No "corrective move".

Think about it: if alona and I were actually wolves together, do you really think she'd say something like that openly... and, if she did, that I would draw attention to it? Your reaction suggests another motive she may have had that I didn't think of before, even - she may be framing me. I'm not sure, though. That would be a clumsy move, drawing suspicion on herself when she's not really suspected yet. Nogrod suspecting me on flimsy grounds... well, that happens in every game. I think there must be something about my personality he just finds evil, since I'm actually evil about 15% of the time...

But what about this using of non-retractable votes when Sally has revealed as seer and has yet to tell us her latest dream, eh? I don't like the looks of that... and it's certainly not something I intend to do.

A list!

Innocent:
Rikae
Sally

Innocentish:
Lottie
Wilwa

Ambiguous:
Inzil
Shasta
Izzy

Naughty:
Nog
Alona
Lari

EDIT: That should read "actually ONLY evil about 15% of the time" ... otherwise it doesn't really make sense...

[wilwarin538]

I need to go for a few hours. I'll be back later on though to vote and stuff.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Lari didn't seem to get what I meant, so I explained it more. No "corrective move".

I understand what you mean, I just also know that the way Alona meant the comment was in the "I'm innocent, I think you're innocent too" kind of way. And yes, I did mark that you jumped on it, but I also have no idea about you either way. I just noted that.

So Sally is the seer and dreamed of the Ranger last Night. And she is probably not going to reveal who that is to keep them safe. And she gets another dream toNight.

Other than that, Nog's vote looks backed up based on his ideas. I should vote soon because I have no idea if I'm going to be here for deadline or not.

[Lariren Shadow]

All right, so I'm going to be going and not here for deadline. According to Alona, she will be back in about an hour and a half.

I honestly have no read on too many people in this game. The only one who I feel like I could vote for is Lottie. I didn't like her attack from earlier toDay and she is just rubbing me the wrong. I don't feel comfortable really voting for anyone else.

So

++Lottie