Admin Thread for WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Erm, no I didn't. Well, I did but not at the beginning of the Day. I was tricked by the nasty wolfiekinses, I didn't pull out the white flag for all the world to see. Apples and oranges, my pet, apples and oranges. (Although I was horribly cross with myself for it nonetheless.)

I know you didn't do that in the beginning of the Day but it was similar enough to cause a déjà vu... Anyway, no need to be cross with yourself because of something like that, it's just a game, dear silly-Sally. (I just like how those two words fit together... )

[Nerwen]

I only saved pms from Night 3 onwards. These are all my replies, but as you see I quoted the others at length within them.

Night 3

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-03 11:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, they probably won't... although, potentially pretty much anyone we kill could frame quite a few people, with the amount of suspicion going around the village.

Killing Mac would be unlikely to get you (Bes) lynchedñ I'm not sure why you say that. I think you're overestimating the amount of suspicion you're under, which is a thing first time wolves tend to do. Be careful not to let yourself get the jitters toMorrow.

If Mac's by any chance the Hunter he might of course decide to add any of us to his list on impulse– but that's a problem that isn't going away. A number of people have noticed how jumpy and "wolvish" he isñ may well mean something.

He's a very good player anyway, so worth getting rid of.

Thoughts?

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-03 13:36
Title : Who to kill...?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bes, I'm just reading through yesterDay now, and Mac has all of us as "undecided" or "tending innocent", so I'm not sure where you're getting all that from.

Not that his suspecting us would necessarily be a bad thing, as I said, except for that nasty little detail about the Hunter getting three shots.

However, I must confess I'd feel bad about killing Mac so early, when he hasn't played for a long time, and was killed on Night One in his last game (ahem! by me), so I'm currently looking at other prospects as well.

Back soon.

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-03 16:04
Title : FW: Thoughts about Mac (and toMorrow)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you see, we really though Mac was a likely gifted at that point– and not a thought of Sally or Shasta. However, Pitch was left to make the decision on his own, and decided on Zil.

Night 4

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-05 03:06
Title : FW: Damn! A @ß%& Seer!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bes is definitely not the logical person for her to dream, not with so many others looking worse.

Bad news is that Lottie is both good at spotting wolves and, I think, pretty headstrong, and she might just go ahead and dream Bes anyway... in which case you're dead, Bes, and there's not a thing we can do about it.

Good news is that if the worst comes to the worst, Pitch and I don't have any ties to you.

Oh well. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

And now I'm just going to take a moment to express my feelings on the situation:

^#&*@*@#*@#*#*@*(&&$@*%%#%#!!!!

First we lose the Night One kill, now this!

I just hope the next "surprise" works in our favour.

Not worth the risk. We'll get a free shot at her toMorrow night, so the known innocents will be down to whoever Lottie dreamed– if it's not one of us *crosses fingers*.

The drawback to so many villagers looking highly suspicious is that we can't bet on her dreaming any given person. Shasta is the most likely, but it would be a waste of a lynchee if we killed him and she dreamed someone else.

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-05 15:31
Title : FW: Nightkill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would frame her nicely... but the problem is, Sally is quite likely to get dreamed by Lottie. In fact, after re-reading the thread, she looks even more suspicious than Shasta, what with all that talk of her "partners", and seeming to know Nienna was innocent.

So if we kill Eomer to frame Sally, and toMorrow she becomes a known innocent, it's a bit of a waste.

Unless either of you think he might be gifted? Because it's gifteds and/or dangerous and/or hard-to-lynch players we should be trying for– under the current circumstances, there's no point trying to frame anyone when we don't know who Lottie will dream.

What, you thought people were just kidding about him being psychic? Now you know.

...So... maybe Shasta after all... or else Greenie, who is generally seen as innocent... or back to Mac.

Thoughts?

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-05 16:55
Title : More on the Nightkill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been thinking about this some more. I think not Shasta– if he doesn't get dreamed, he'll have his work cut out defending himself toMorrow, and if he does... well, it won't prove anything.

Meanwhile, if we kill him and Lottie dreams, say, Wilwa, we'd have lost two lynch baits instead of one.

How about killing Brinn or Greenie? They're in the hard-to lynch category, and they might be anything.

I have to go now. I'll try to be back before the DL– if I'm not, one of you will have to make the final decision and send in the kill. Sorry about this, but I have a bit of a timezone problem here ...

For toMorrow, I think we should lie low and say nuffin' until we know whether Lottie dreamed one of us. Or at least, say as little as possible. This is not just to avoid incriminating each other– if one of us makes a case against a villager and then is exposed as a wolf, it would be a waste.

What is extremely good, about the only thing that's really gone our way, in fact, is that the late votes last Night look just like a wicked wolvish conspiracy. It could be Days before the village gets that mess sorted out.

Back later (hopefully).

~Nerwolf.

Note that though we were talking about killing Shasta, we weren't thinking of him as a gifted candidate.

Oh, and I went into the next Day quite prepared to throw another of my poor little wolf-cubs to the lambs, or even be thrown myself. I had a nasty feeling Lottie wouldn't dream one of the obvious people.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes
Date : 2009-12-07 03:10
Title : FW: Pitch.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to leave you alone all this time, Bes my internet died halfway through yesterDay. Not that it would have made any difference.

Well, you couldn't have done anything else.

But anyway, that's what I was afraid of, with Lottie. She just does her own thing...

Also, Roa suggests we kill Eomer or Lommy, and find a way to blame Wilwa. Would it be wrong of us to take her advice?

Well, no, she's out of the game and she didn't know anyone's role. Besides, I've been considering Eomer anyway.

Not Lommy, though. I think she'll make good lynch-bait... quite a few people think she's guilty, including Lottie.

~Nerwolf.[/QUOTE]

From : Nerwen
To : Bes
Date : 2009-12-07 05:58
Title : ToNight and ToMorrow...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I'll send it in now.

For toMorrow's strategy... well, hopefully we can get the villagers to kill each other for a few more Days. Try and not attract too much attention to yourself. You should be all right, but that comment you made when voting Pitch, about "trying to find a reason not to vote him" might get you in trouble. You'd better just explain you didn't trust Lottie, and hope the rest will be put down to newbie-ishness.

I might go after Sally a bit– she went down in the suspicion lists after Pitch'sexposure, but I bet she's creeping up again now.

We really need our luck to change, though.

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Legate of Amon Lanc
Date : 2009-12-07 06:10
Title : Tonight's kill.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Legate,

We have decided to eat Eomer toNight. We have had enough of his ice-related puns, and wish to put our theory that he is del-ice-ious to the test.

Yours respectfully,

The Wolves.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes
Date : 2009-12-07 16:28
Title : Good luck for toMorrow!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's about all, really.

~Nerwolf.

Night 5
[QUOTE]
From : Nerwen
To : Bes
Date : 2009-12-09 10:23
Title : RE: Also
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Bes

Little time as I had for it before, I have less time for this game now, and I'm not enjoyying it much at this point. I sort of hope they lynch me tomorrow, selfish as that is.

Try and stay alive please, Bes. I've enjoyed playing with you.

However, if by any chance you do find yourself on the block, how about claiming to be a gifted? It might help me find the real ones.

She got Pitch, remember? There's been only one innocent I've ever played with who told a direct lie about a Seer dream to get someone lynchedñ and it wasn't Lottie.

I want her to stay alive, for the present. All the people doubting her are making themselves look increasingly bad. I think toMorrow Night will be the time to kill herñ depending on what's happened during the Day, of course.

Mac + Lommy is also a possible pairing... but whatever. I agree, it's high time we killed him. I've thought him a likely gifted from the start and even if he's not, his death could make things interesting, and help narrow down the possibilities for who the gifteds are. (For instance, I doubt it's Mac + Brinn).

Unless one of us has a sudden inspiration in the next hour, I'll send his name in for the kill.

~Nerwolf.

I never did get around to asking what Bes meant about Sally– I think he hadn't read the rules about the Hunter properly.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Legate of Amon Lanc
Date : 2009-12-09 12:31
Title : Tonight's kill.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Legate,

After having Inzil for a main course, A Little Green as greens and a del-ice-ious Eomer dessert, we wolves have had a sudden craving for fast food.

We'd like a Mac toNight.

Yours sincerely,

The Wolves.

Look, Pitch started the jokes, not me.

I'll post the rest later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just for the record (or if somebody was blind), narration is up!

Anyway - thanks to everybody for playing... I should go to bed already now, but of course I will join to chat with you here tomorrow after also those who have not shown yet will join us to share their experiences (hopefully).

Just to say the most important things - I hope you all liked the game, as much as I have liked it, and really I think every single one of you has done remarkable impact. (I have been, so to say, following really everybody's personal "fate", and as this far I have been modding only small games, it was really an amazing experience.)

There have been one or two unfortunate things during the game and few people had to drop out, but it was not anything big, and I think compared to how sometimes people massively drop out or do not participate, this game remained quite "stable" and very "live" until the end.

So thanks everybody for playing once again!

And hope you liked my special events and intentionally Legate-ishly over-cryptic narrations. Speaking of special events, though, there is one thing I feel I need to point out so that I do not claim credit for something that has not been my original idea...

I would like to hear feedback about the "false Day 1" (Gifteds and Wolves were intentionally told not to reveal for that purpose, but I tried to make it secret enough so I don't think they had any clue as to what might happen... am I right?). But it is not just me who would like to hear it, I am sure. As there was indeed someone who brought me to that idea in the first place, and I have also notified him that I am going to use it so I assume he is lurking around here somewhere or will appear soon too... Now I feel somewhat stupid to announce his name, as it is such a... cliché to praise his name... but it's thanks to him that I could have used this false Day 1 in this game and he is (I am not going to bolden his name so that I don't give spoilers to those who read this)... the phantom. Who else.

Aside from that, I must say I have been fearing that the Werewolves were actually a bit in a disadvanteage at start. Basically perhaps the false Day 1 served more to the village (but maybe we can hear the WW's opinion on that?) and also to an extent the Sacrificial Chamber, if "used" well (especially in connection with the still living Hunter - which was something I did not expect to happen!). But they have managed to make their way through.

I must say the Gifteds have done an exceptional job here. They were lucky to remain alive so long, too. Loslote of course made a bullseye with her single dream. For the record, the purpose of the Birthday Dreamer was not actually that much to give another Gifted to the village, but rather to "elevate" a common ordo (like, have you never thought as ordos "gah, if only I had a single dream now, I would sort things out!"?).

But the wolves were sliding well out of the suspicion and the wolf-on-wolf votes have indeed basically cleared them all in the eyes of most in the beginning. What a move!

And I should also give hats off to our newbie Bes, who has remained alive for a looong time. Hope you've liked it and are going to stay with us! (even though now you cannot play on the newbie card as much anymore )

And of course to all the "ordinary" ordos, who contributed well, each with their own...

Okay. Ugh. Well, so that is my "short" post. Ha ha. I should have known myself by now. Well, good night - now at last without capital n.

[Inziladun]

A very enjoyable game, Legate, and my thanks for your hard work. My time ended up being rather short, but it would have been even shorter without the false Day 1.
It was useful, I think, to basically have that Day as a 'do over', but there would have been considerable angst had a wolf been lynched that Day and the fact later revealed (or a Gifted been lynched from the Wolves' point of view).
The 'Sacrifice' looked quite interesting, and after seeing 3 wolves taken down, I echo the consternation that the innocents still managed to lose.
Hats off to the Wolves, and to Lottie and Shasta, who managed to make good use of their Gifted abilities.

[Nogrod]

What the f...?

The one Day I'm not in early enough you decide to end the game?

I said it was odd no-one suspected Nerwen but she still continued living... and I suspected her already on D1!!!

(Okay, my fault, I should have followed it more closely - and I had absolutely no other reason to suspect her up to yesterDay.)

Why Boro, why?

The "no-Day" was a great idea. Sadly it doesn't work generally as if people know to wait for it it makes D1's even more dull. But on onetime-use it was good!

(Okay, had no time to read the other post-game comments as it is late... coming back tomorrow...)

[Pitchwife]

*rises from the grave to light fireworks and open some bottles of champagne*

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I don't think I saved the earlier Nights. I'll have a look.

Don't worry, I've saved everything up to the Night before my lynching and will post them in a quiet moment when we're all done celebrating or lamenting, respectively.

Hey Nerwen, congratulations on your victory! Morsul's vote was sheer luck, of course (and I wonder what he'll say when he's done kicking himself), but you deserved it nevertheless - not the least for your patience in putting up with three first-time cubs. I really don't want to know how often during this game you wondered what the Angband we thought we were doing...

Which reminds me -

Originally Posted by Nerwen

By the way, do you realise he started the "Mr Agreeable" thing? He said something on Day One about how "wolves often try to seem agreeable"...

I'm sure some people must have noticed it - that's why it was so much fun to point out and rub it in how perfectly the description fit my own behaviour (which of course I wasn't aware of when I said this, stupid me, but I naturally tend to be like this - reluctant to judge anybody rashly, always trying to see the other side, etc., unless I make a conscious effort or see something that really screams wolf to me; which made it quite difficult for me to be vicious with malice aforethought and make a convincing case against a known innocent - and made it much easier to go wolf-on-wolf when the occasion presented itself).

Bes, sorry again for turning against you about Lottie's reveal. You played the newbie card very well, and no small feat to survive so long. Being taken down by the Hunter on the Day before the last is quite an honourable death for a Werewolf, I think. May we meet again!

(À propos, Lottie - I didn't really mean to urge you to dream Bes, I just thought you were very likely to dream him anyway, so it couldn't hurt. Little did I know I was digging my own grave there... As it turned out, I must plead guilty to having gravely underestimated you - a mistake I hopefully won't make again so soon. Great job there!)

Mnemo - thanks for your sacrifice, which I obviously profited from (honestly, I was quite surprised how the suspicion against me suddenly abated after our wolf-on-wolf act), but I'm really curious: were you actually planning to get lynched on Day 2/Day 1b, or what was that all about?

I'll get round to giving the innocents their due tomorrow, but now for some sleep.

[Macalaure]

I have to be more consequent with Nerwen - innocent-looking = evil, suspicious = innocent. I might have suspected Bes at some point, but you?

And I was so sure that Nogrod was the last wolf, certainly after he was the brain behind the Lottie lynch... I couldn't believe you people actually did that.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

However, I must confess I'd feel bad about killing Mac so early, when he hasn't played for a long time, and was killed on Night One in his last game (ahem! by me), so I'm currently looking at other prospects as well.

How sweet.

You guys really wanted to kill me all the time! I feel honoured.

[Loslote]

*snickers*

That just made my day. Nerwen, Bes, and Pitchie, you amuse me greatly.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nienna

and I'd just like to apologize to Lommy and Wilwa for suspecting you heavily without apparent cause.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

My apologies to Nienna and Brinn, and Wilwa too!

No worries, no worries, I did plenty to make me look bad so I don't blame you at all!

I blame Boro. And it turns out him and I being "rivals" doesn't do much good at all, haha.


That was a great game everyone! You wolves did a very good job, and I didn't suspect any of you. Sally, Shasta and Lottie, you all did great!!! And Legate, you did a lovely job, you're narrations were totally awesome!

[Roa_Aoife]

That was fantastic to watch, especially after Bes informed on who the wolves were. I couldn't help laughing over and over again, especially at Nog, with "So and so must be a wolf! There is no other explanation!" Oh, sweetie, you make me giggle.

The rampant paranoia was highly amusing, especially when you all turned on your one known innocent. I still can't believe you guys did that. I kept thinking, "No, they won't fall for it. No one ever falls for that."

Also:

Originally Posted by nightly pms

Also, Roa suggests we kill Eomer or Lommy, and find a way to blame Wilwa. Would it be wrong of us to take her advice?

That's right! It was me! I killed Eomer while being dead and not a wolf! Mwahahahahaha! (I know not really, but the thought still tickles me.)

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Morsul's vote was sheer luck, of course (and I wonder what he'll say when he's done kicking himself),

I'd say "Lommy why were you so suspicious. And Nerwen why were you so charming. and to other innocents next time lynch me so I don't mess up!"

[Roa_Aoife]

Don't feel bad Morsul. If the rest of the village hadn't lynched all those innocents before hand, your vote wouldn't have been so crucial. That's why Werewolf is a team sport. Everyone's decisions affect the outcome of the game, and there really isn't a "crucial vote" because every vote has affected the outcome. Hence why you can die early and still claim victory if your side whens.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

The rampant paranoia was highly amusing, especially when you all turned on your one known innocent. I still can't believe you guys did that. I kept thinking, "No, they won't fall for it. No one ever falls for that."

Hey, I refuse to be made part of that. Sally and I did our level best to keep Lottie from being lynched, and Nienna can quote me - I exploded when Bes voted. Not a happy Shasta then. Actually, since Sally and I were the main opponents to a Lottie lynch, I was sure we'd outed ourselves then, and advised Sally to protect herself accordingly (whoops). I was like "No innocent would have led that lynch. No way."

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Hey, I refuse to be made part of that. Sally and I did our level best to keep Lottie from being lynched, and Nienna can quote me - I exploded when Bes voted. Not a happy Shasta then. Actually, since Sally and I were the main opponents to a Lottie lynch, I was sure we'd outed ourselves then, and advised Sally to protect herself accordingly (whoops). I was like "No innocent would have led that lynch. No way."

Well, well. And to think on that Night I did consider Sally. But then I thought, "Nah, they wouldn't be that obvious". Just as well...

However– last Night, when it was fairly clear Sally was in fact the Ranger, I partly based my decision to try and kill her on the fact that she might have felt the need to protect herself the Night before, after the way she'd stuck her neck out. I think that's a rare example of 20/20 hindsight actually being useful.

But as I said, good job hiding, both of you. I was getting quite mad at myself, as I rather pride myself on my gifted-spotting.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, well. And to think on that Night I did consider Sally. But then I thought, "Nah, they wouldn't be that obvious". Just as well...

However– last Night, when it was fairly clear Sally was in fact the Ranger, I partly based my decision to try and kill her on the fact that she might have felt the need to protect herself the Night before, after the way she'd stuck her neck out. I think that's a rare example of 20/20 hindsight actually being useful.

But as I said, good job hiding, both of you. I was getting quite mad at myself, as I rather pride myself on my gifted-spotting.

*bows, applauds you in return for some rather good wolfing*

To be honest, I'm not sure I would have gotten you the last Day anyway; I'd passed over Nogrod for sure and was leaning toward innocent on Lommie, but Morsul had done so much for the wolves (and to me, honestly) that I couldn't imagine him being innocent. I thought maybe we had a cobbler after all. Then again, I had you pegged as my other suspect, and knew that if the wolf wasn't Morsul they'd certainly kill him because I was the only one who really suspected him. I said to Legate last Night that I was making a grave mistake but was fine with dealing with the consequences. At least I didn't protect you.


And again, I was killed at Night and the wolves won. My streak remains intact. If I'm wrongfully lynched the village loses, if I'm Night killed the village loses, but if I survive to the end....erm, I normally screw up. But not all the time, so I take comfort in the fact that I played a fairly decent game and had a darn good time.


Cookies to anyone who can find all my hints; there were quite a few, so I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did.


Oh, and a point of interest. Shasta and I had decided that if at any point we were forced to reveal we would do so in reverse, with him as the ranger and I as the hunter. This would hopefully dissuade wolves from killing me and allow him to do his duty while protecting me at the same time, at least for a Day or two. Alas, it never came to that, but I thought it was quite a clever plan.

[Bes]

First, I don't know that I deserve the compliments I've received, but thanks to each of you regardless. I had fun towards the end, after calming down a bit, and I'd like to think I've made some friends here.

To Shasta: To be honest? After I found that bit from Nog in the '07 game, I did spend a while wondering if maybe Lottie or Legate just forgot to PM us or something. I rejected that theory before long(between that post and the next, I forget where exactly), but do keep in mind that not every time I did something newb-ish was disingenuous. It's my first game, after all. I would have pursued that as an innocent, and ironically because of the WAY I died this game means I wouldn't have died for it, but... Not how things turned out.

Other honest mistakes: The bit with the ranger dying? Yeah, I screwed up there. With the role posted right in the admin thread, no less. Day 1 no lynch idea? Honest curiosity, and I had to laugh a little every time extended that question further to be "Bes didn't want a day one vote, this is SUSPICIOUS. " I'd be willing to bet that an observant reader could pick out where I was and wasn't making honest mistakes, in retrospect. Ah well.

Also: *hugs Lottie, Shasta and Sally* No hard feelings about the Lottie-lynch, I hope.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Bes

Also: *hugs Lottie, Shasta and Sally* No hard feelings about the Lottie-lynch, I hope.

Of course not! You were a wolf; you were supposed to want that. I'd expect nothing else.


And kudos on being such a good wolf cub! I thought you were blaringly obvious as a wolf but that's because I pick up weird stuff and thought you were being more than just new. Nevertheless for your first game you performed splendidly and I hope you'll join games in the future (including my upcoming one)!

[satansaloser2005]

Incidentally....Boro, why did you self-sacrifice? I've been wondering because it seemed so silly to me, but I know you must have had some clever reason or something. I would have loved to sacrifice someone else but alas your fate was sealed pretty quickly. Explanation? Please?

[Bes]

I couldn't answer you honestly just yet about whether or not I'll join that one. It's an interesting game, and can be fun-- when you have time for it. I honestly didn't in the first few days, lots of unexpected obligations during day periods. We'll see!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I'd say "Lommy why were you so suspicious. And Nerwen why were you so charming. and to other innocents next time lynch me so I don't mess up!"

Hey, sorry, that was a bit mean of me. But things like that happen to all of us - and it's not like you were the only innocent there who with the best intentions did his bit to help us win! So no bad feelings, I hope.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Hey Nerwen, congratulations on your victory! Morsul's vote was sheer luck, of course (and I wonder what he'll say when he's done kicking himself), but you deserved it nevertheless - not the least for your patience in putting up with three first-time cubs. I really don't want to know how often during this game you wondered what the Angband we thought we were doing...

Pitch, you darling adorwable fuzzy widdle wolfcubs did the number one thing I wanted, which was not to leave obvious trails to me or each other. From the start I'd pretty much counted on at least half the pack getting killed. You and Mnemo were, after all, in the uncomfortable position of being first-time wolves but fairly well-known players... and then it was such a large village, with a high-powered (not to mention psychic ) Hunter. And that was before I knew of Legate's first "twist" and the fact that there was a Seer of sorts after all.

I must say, Legate, this was not an easy set-up for us poor wolves!

[Morsul the Dark]

Sally: To be honest, I'm not sure I would have gotten you the last Day anyway; I'd passed over Nogrod for sure and was leaning toward innocent on Lommie, but Morsul had done so much for the wolves (and to me, honestly) that I couldn't imagine him being innocent. I thought maybe we had a cobbler after all. Then again, I had you pegged as my other suspect, and knew that if the wolf wasn't Morsul they'd certainly kill him because I was the only one who really suspected him. I said to Legate last Night that I was making a grave mistake but was fine with dealing with the consequences. At least I didn't protect you.

How about next time I use my psychic powers to read everyone? Act suspicious I'll vote for you.

Pitch: Hey, sorry, that was a bit mean of me. But things like that happen to all of us - and it's not like you were the only innocent there who with the best intentions did his bit to help us win! So no bad feelings, I hope.

even after game he's "Mr. Agreeable
Of course there's no hard feelings it's a game for a reason.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

What, you thought people were just kidding about him being psychic? Now you know.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

and then it was such a large village, with a high-powered (not to mention psychic ) Hunter.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

By the way, Nerwolf, you were on my very first list as Hunter.

I don't have all the PMs I sent Legate changing my list, but I did it... a lot. There were a couple times I changed during the day and had to inform sally via a code, too.

[Mnemosyne]

Neener.

Neener.

Okay, I've been dead all game so I'm allowed to gloat just a little.

Legate: False Day One was a great idea. Except for the part where I definitely didn't get to kill anyone. Basically I'm still trying to see how that could work out in the advantage of the wolves, and I'm not sure if you did anything specifically to balance that fact out (unless you want to consider the lack of seer).

Pitch, and everyone else: No, I was not trying to get myself lynched on Day OnePointFive. I had actually managed to maintain a sufficient level of cognitive dissonance that I half thought I was an innocent during the Daytime. So I was extraordinarily ticked that the one time I got lynched for... well, playing as I would as an innocent, I happened to be a wolf! Grrrrrrr...

It also meant, Nerwen, that I was pretty mad at you for being the only person online when I could actually talk, which meant that if I wanted to talk about anything I had to focus on your attacks on me, which made me look even more suspicious.

But basically, to explain, this is all true stuff about me as a lurker/player:

1). I can do great stuff in theory.
2). I am terrible at putting this theory into practice. It is nearly impossible for me to find wolves.
3). Whenever I analyze players it always tells me more about me than it does about them.
4). I purposely withhold from playing WW until I think I have the time and mental energy to commit to it (after this game, deadline is going to affect this as well. I really was not my best near the end of day because I was distracted because of classes going on. I cannot multitask for the life of me). This is also so I won't lose the zeal for the game when this sort of thing happens. I love love love getting first post in for each Day, even though it means nothing and can actually make me look suspicious. So, yeah, when regular players get as bouncy as Mnemo-oh-my-Valar-I'm-playing-Werewolf-again, I get nervous.

So no wonder I was upset about getting lynched over all these things rather than anything that could actually point to my being a wolf.

It could of course also be that the cognitive dissonance thing just wasn't enough and my subconscious can't handle being anything other than an innocent. But I can't see myself playing any other way. And of course I never lived long enough to find out.

So, yeah, I was pretty ticked when it happened. Especially at Nerwen. But man, when everyone was all, "Nerwen's totally innocent now, kthx" (a reputation which mostly, I think, lasted throughout the game) and people dropped some Pitch suspicion I forgave them all in a heartbeat.

Oh, and finally...

This was my third game as a player, people. You are not allowed to give other relatively new players a pass on newbishness in the actual game and not give it to me.

I really still have mixed feelings about my time in the game... My schedule wouldn't allow me to play in the next round anyway, but even if it did I'd probably skip out just so that I could max out my zealometer again.

Finally, sally: remind me to kill phantom when we see him next.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Bes

I'd be willing to bet that an observant reader could pick out where I was and wasn't making honest mistakes, in retrospect. Ah well.

Indeed, when I was reading your posts (of course knowing your role all the time), I think I saw where you were making a honest mistake and where probably not - although as the time passed, continuously I was becoming more confused, as of course I did not know what the other Wolves would have told you and what they wouldn't. Sometimes it was interesting to see in terms of what people have been suspecting you for. But anyway I think you managed to get through that pretty well.

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Legate: False Day One was a great idea. Except for the part where I definitely didn't get to kill anyone. Basically I'm still trying to see how that could work out in the advantage of the wolves, and I'm not sure if you did anything specifically to balance that fact out (unless you want to consider the lack of seer).

Yes, it was at least a bit of a disadvantage for the Wolves, I agree. That's part of what I said about not being sure if the game wasn't a bit disbalanced in favor of the innocents (but still you see who won ). The problem was that I didn't have any precedens and I had to guess. Because there was no telling that the second Day 1 won't lead to more confusion going after somebody who accidentally made a very weird, but innocent vote on the Day before. Also the Wolves had the whole Night to discuss how to cope with the situation on the following Day. All in all, I don't think it was that much of a disadvantage for the Wolves, but it was mainly moving the game from one stage to another - although I can still see the questionmarks surrounding it.

By the way, if somebody wants to see the summary of Wolf/Ranger/Hunter/Dreamer picks as they went by Nights (and Days), I can put them here:

Night 1:
Hunter - Roa, Brinn, Mac, Boro

Day 1:
Lynch - Inzil (would-be)

Night 2: nothing

Day 2:
Hunter - Nerwen, Brinn, Boro, Nienna
Lynch - Mnemo

Night 3:
Wolves - Inzil
Ranger - Mac
Hunter - Nienna, Brinn, Nerwen

Day 3:
Hunter - Brinn, Nerwen, Nienna
Lynch - Nienna

Night 4:
Wolves - Greenie
Ranger - Loslote
Hunter - Mac, Eomer, Boro
Birthday Dreamer - Pitchwife

Day 4:
Hunter - Mac, Eomer, Boro
Lynch - Pitchwife

Night 5:
Wolves - Eomer
Ranger - Nogrod
Hunter - Boro, Wilwa

Day 5:
Hunter - Mac, Boro
Lynch - Wilwa

Night 6:
Wolves - Mac
Ranger - Nerwen
Hunter - Lommy, Mac

Day 6:
Hunter - Nogrod, Lommy
Lynch - Loslote

Night 7:
Wolves - Brinn
Ranger - Sally (herself)
Hunter - Nog, Boro

Day 7:
Hunter - Bes, Nog
Sacrifice - Boro
Lynch - Shasta

Night 8:
Wolves - Sally
Ranger - Morsul

Day 8:
Lynch - Lommy

[Roa_Aoife]

In game terms, the false start was a definite advantage for the village, giving them more info and stopping the lynch of an innocent, which in this case led to the lynching of a wolf. That may not always be the case, but it still stopped a lynch that causes the death of an innocent 9 times out of 10 and forced the wolves to change strategy.

Birthday dreamer- not unbalancing at all, considering the damage a regular seer can do to the wolves. You can't really account for one-hit wonders like Lottie.

I've made my feelings on "smart hunters" known before, but for the sake of commentary, I've always disliked them as being untrue to the spirit of the game. Before the invention of the logical hunter (I believe that credit goes to LMP in DWI), hunters had a long proud tradition of killing the seer. There was an edginess to it that you had only one choice, and that choice had better be right. And when used like Shasta did, it has a seer like effect of revealing roles and providing known innocents.

This aside, it doesn't really unbalance the game all that much. I do think that using a logical hunter in conjunction with communicating gifteds does unbalance it, though.

The sacrifice day could have gone either way, potentially ending the game with victory for either side, depending on how it went. Again, you can't account for what plans people might come up with, but it was potentially extremely deadly for the wolves, being as there were only two left. I would suggest using it earlier in the game next time, before it becomes a potential game ender.

All that said, the wolves were disadvantaged this game (though not heavily), and everything that could go wrong for them did. (First lynch is a wolf, the seer's ONE DREAM is a wolf, the hunter kills a wolf...) The only thing that didn't go wrong for them was a successful Ranger block. So their victory is that much more impressive.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by The Mod of Amon Lanc

Your WW role
Congratulations! You are a Werewolf. Your spirit has possessed a body of one of the explorers and now you are here to destroy the rest of the expedition to make yourself free. Your fellow Werewolves are Bes, Mnemosyne and Nerwen, you can communicate with them by PMs at Night. Each Night, you and your mates agree on one person to kill and then you send the message about whom you have picked to me. Your goal is to remain alive until there are as many Werewolves as the remaining innocents.
Good luck for your plotting!
Note: For your own good do not reveal your role on the thread by any means; even if you are about to be lynched (like these resignated „okay, you got me, bye“ posts).

Night 1

Originally Posted by Pitch

Hail packmates!
Dear comrades in tooth and claw,
I'm pleased and honoured to hunt with you. We have some formidable opponents, but I'm confident we'll taste their sweet blood before the end and destroy this miserable expedition.
This is my first game as a wolf, so I'd naturally appreciate any hints and suggestions how to go about it. Bes, you're new, but have you played anything similar before? Mnemo, I actually don't know how many games you've played (I'll never forget the one you modded, though!), but I don't remember seeing you as a wolf before. Luckily, Nerwen at least is a seasoned veteran.
It's probably too early to discuss strategy yet, but the rules look like they don't have a Seer this time, which should make our job a bit easier. On the other hand, there's a pesky secret role which might work against us* (unless, maybe, one of us has it : ?)...
Looking forward to hear from you,
Pitchwolf

*Guess what? It did!

Originally Posted by Bes

Hey there.
Nice to be working with you three. I never imagined I'd be a wolf in my very first game!
In response to Pitchwife: This is the first game very much like this I've played, based on the description of how it's usually played that I received from Roa. The closest I've come to it is the Mafia card game, and that's much more instinct and face reading.
So, do we get right down to business then? Do we kill someone tonight? If so, how should we pick them?

Originally Posted by Pitch

Re: Hey there.

Conventionally, the Night 1 kill is the Mod - in our case, judging from the narration so far, the captain of the ship. So I expect Legate will take care of his own demise in the narration without any need for us to get our claws bloody.
As to picking our kills early in the game, from what I've seen so far there's two (well, actually three) approaches to this:
1. Kill the loudmouths - i.e. take out an active player who talks a lot and makes good points before they can become a threat to us. (Disadvantage: the loudmouths have a nice habit to suspect one another, which of course can distract them and the rest from us; I think Nogrod and Roa are almost famous for this.)
2. No trail kills - i.e. kill somebody who hasn't posted a lot and hasn't voiced any serious suspicion against any of us, so that the poor innocents won't be able to draw any conclusions from the kill.
3. I almost forgot this, but it's actually the First Commandment: Thou shalt not suffer a Gifted to live.
We'll just have to wait, see and choose according to the situation, as the game unfolds.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Re: Hail packmates!
Hail! And welcome to the deep end of the alignment pool!

Well, on Day One all we really need to do is avoid the noose. We should also try and spot the gifteds if possible... they can often be picked by their jumpy, often "wolfish" manner. In fact, if all the innocents start saying "X looks wolfish", and X isn't one of us, X might well be a gifted.
The main general advice I can give you and Mnemo is to try and play as much like you normally do as you can. You two are rather vulnerable, though, as everyone will expect you both to post something of substance. So make sure all your cases and lists look well-reasoned.
Bes, as a newbie you'll be immune from lynching on Day One, unless you actually confess or something. If you have time, you might want to read through one or two of the previous games to get the hang of it. (However, bear in mind that the rules change with pretty much every game.) Don't worry if you're a bit confused early in the game, as it will tend to make you look more innocent... as though you couldn't possibly be a wolf who had had other wolves give you lessons on Night One.
The important thing is not to let the village see there are connections between us... especially, don't go all out to save a packmate from lynching. That doesn't mean you have to lynch your fellows- just don't try so hard to save one that you give yourself away in the process. (Mnemo and Pitch know this stuff already, of course, so I'm really talking to Bes here.)

Yes, but the Hunter and Ranger know each other's identities and can pm; also the Hunter gets three shots. That could make things difficult. On the other hand (paw?), it might make it easier to spot them...

No use worrying about that yet. I just hope it's not a renegade wolf!
~Nerwolf.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Re: Hail packmates!

Yep, the less we're seen working together in broad Daylight the better. And being wolves, we should be comfortable with natural selection, shouldn't we? Meaning if any of us manage to get themselves in serious danger of getting lynched, I'd suggest they're on their own.

Darn, I forgot about the three shots, thanks for reminding me. A good argument for killing the Hunter soon, if we can. So we want to look out for any two people who either seem to be playing into each other's hands, or on the other paw pointedly ignoring each other so as not to give themselves away.

The thought has crossed my mind, too. That would be a real nuisance - but it's only a might-be, so let's not start out mistrusting one another because of the mere possibility.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

FW: Hail packmates!

I forgot to say, though, let's not fall into the opposite error of obviously knowing too much. Anyone who "suspects" a packmate needs to be able to point to a good reason for doing so. Otherwise it becomes a question of, "Wait a moment, how did Nerwen know Mnemo was a wolf?"

Yes- a lot of wolves want to avoid the Hunter at all costs, but these modified Hunters have to die as soon as possible. The longer they live, the more chance they have of catching one of us.
However, it depends... if it looks like one of us has been spotted already, we may need to rethink this.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Bes

Well, I feel sheepish.
I'll admit I rushed in to my vote to try to save Mnemo. No one's commented on it in the thread, but I realize it was a gamble that could have (and still could) cost us two wolves instead of the one. Especially since it was effectively my only post of real substance/significance.
Does anyone else feel like Roa and Nogrod are both gifted, and trying to screw with our heads?

Originally Posted by Pitch

Re: Well, I feel sheepish.
Don't. Or rather, I feel the same. Three of us getting involved into the Mac bandwagon wasn't exactly an ideal thing to happen, but honestly, I totally didn't refresh in time to see your vote before posting mine; on the other hand, even if I had, I don't see what else I could have done. For me, it wasn't so much going out to save Mnemo, but sticking with the only 'suspicion' I had voiced so far, anything else would've been suspicious.
Nog and Roa as gifteds - i.e. Ranger and Hunter, putting up a fight for the sake of appearance, counting on it that none of them would be lynched on Day 1? Possible.
And do I need to say I feel rather cheated by Legate's Special Event? No Night kill! Really! Or could that work for us in any way? Don't see how right now...
What d'you all think?
Pitch

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Re: Well, I feel sheepish.

I think you'll be able to get off with it, because you're such an enigma right now. If you can come up with a "I had to rush in and out, better explanation comes here" post toMorrow and just leave it at that, that's just as well.
The whole last hour or so (I got out of class early, so I was able to lurk and see how things were going) was really tense for me, but I'm still pretty sure that those who voted me were voting more for me than me-as-wolf... I was not trying to sound agreeable or please anyone, thank you very much. There was about one thing I did differently (so far as I can tell) than what I'd do as a regular player. And that was that I did not flip that coin.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
The good news about toDay's voting scene is that there were a lot of people who rushed in to save everyone, which means that all y'all's votes will be buried in the murk should I get lynched and found guilty. Maybe we'll lose one in the insanity afterwards, but we shouldn't all go from that.
Bes, I was thinking the same thing you were. Once Lommy said they were in cahoots I was like, "Bingo!" In which case we'd need to get one or both of them immediately...
But at the same time I'm not so sure... I've seen Ordo Wars before (they're hilarious) and they have gotten this ridiculous in the past. As a wolf I'd love to just egg them on, but that's not how I play. Whoever everyone is about to jump on on Day One I almost always want to discourage from being jumped upon.
One huge thing, though... do not bail me out unless it's something you would actually do. I have no problem with being shoved under the bus.
All right, advice, input, discussion would all be lovely right now. I'm still reeling from toDay.
~Mnemo
P.S. If one of us gets lynched toMorrow, is it considered Fenris or not?

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Actually, three of us on the same bandwagon looks kind of ridiculous in hindsight. I'm just saying. Might be enough to throw off suspicion.
The no Night kill ticks me off, too, but at least we have a Day's information to go off of and analyze. And Inziladun's not dead, which is good... I honestly didn't think that there would be such a huge pile-on!
Pitch, I'm probably going to go after you a bit toMorrow. Maybe even vote. Just warning you.
My own gut feeling for my situation is that Green isn't going to let go of her gut feeling for me. Maybe Lommy will, maybe Eomer...
There's nothing I can do, though, except continue being myself. Hopefully toMorrow people will have reread through everything and let their opinions settle... I was seriously going off gut there myself!

Originally Posted by Nerwen

FW: Well, I feel sheepish.

No, your vote was fine, Bes. I mean, it had some reasoning behind it- following Zil, true, but you'll probably get a newbie pass on that. Mnemo only had two votes at that point, and those both pretty questionable ones... so it's hardly obvious you were trying to save her.
If anything, mine looks the worst, but I was in a position where I had to vote one of the leads or else make a throwaway vote... and a vote against Zil or Mnemo would have come out of the blue.

*shrugs* Maybe... but they usually do come to blows. It's something to bear in mind, though.
My current guess is that the gifteds are Boro + Mac or Nogrod, most likely the latter. That was quite an extreme reaction to the way people were questioning Boro, and I must admit it took me by surprise.
Nog's attack on Roa is interesting. Looks like the ordos' pms specified the number of wolves... but I'm really surprised at Nogrod, of all people, using such dodgy meta-reasoning. I feel the best-fit explanation is that he's looking at things through a "Boro is innocent" filter, so that Roa was already "suspicious" for having questioned him.

Originally Posted by Bes

Gifted
Nerwen's analysis makes pretty good sense to me. Nog was hinting pretty hard that he had another reason he couldn't disclose as to why Roa was a wolf; I guess that's what he means about the "Boro is innocent filter".
The way they went about it, if that's the case, suggests that Nog would rather he get lynched than Boro. So I suppose the logical course would be to let that happen and then nightkill Boro as quick as we can? Or help that lynching happen if at all possible/safe.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

FW: Well, I feel sheepish.

It's Nogrod and Roa. If they're the gifteds, they would indeed have needed to stage a quarrel just to look "normal"- but I feel that, with all the opportunities for scheming our Ranger and Hunter have, they wouldn't have used something as clumsy as Roa's "mistake" + Nogrod's meta-reasoning.
I'd certainly keep them both near the top of the hit-list, all the same.

Probably not... interesting point.
~Nerwolf.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

FW: Gifted

Which- if it is those two- would make him the Hunter to Boro's Ranger... but that's getting ahead of ourselves.

Generally, it's best to keep out of the lynch of a gifted if you possibly can. For the moment, since we can't kill anyone, let's just make a "most likely gifteds" list:
Nogrod, Roa, Boro, Mac. There.
In answer to your other question, a "Fenris Wolf" is one who gets lynched on Day One.
By the way- check out the admin thread. Legate is going crazy trying to make up his mind whether it was Mac or Zil who failed to get lynched.
~Nerwolf.

Originally Posted by Pitch

For tomorrow

Do, by all means. But based on what: my vote (which could speak against me, given that I generally prefer to stay out of bandwagons) - or general performance, being 'too agreeable', too non-controversial, that kind of stuff? Just so I'm prepared.
I'm considering whether to back off Mac toMorrow or not. His defense against the points Zil and I made against him might well have convinced me if I were innocent, or at least make me waver.
Speaking of Zil, agree it's good he's still alive, he makes such a good pseudo-wolf - though I still don't quite see where the votes against him came from (apart from yours, and Mac's who voted to save himself). It's funny how often I find myself in one corner with him, whatever his role. Similar playing style? Makes it hard for me to go after him, in any case.
'x-ed' with several of your PMs, which I just saw.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Re: Gifted

I'd make that Nog, Boro, Mac, Roa, because I can well imagine Roa reacting the same way to Nog's attack if she's an ordo.
Sorry, it's bedtime for me, but I'll pop in again in about 9-10 hours, and then again 3 hours or so before DL. Hope my PM box won't be overflowing when I wake up (I'll clear it now).
Good night,
Pitchwolf

Originally Posted by Nerwen

FW: For tomorrow

Take care how you do it... Nogrod, for one, is seeing everything as "suspicious back-pedalling".

No, you leave Zil- others are going after him anyway.
Now I just want to say: disregard my reasoning on Nogrod being a gifted. I wasn't thinking clearly. I just realized he very probably isn't, based on my original point about his reasons for suspecting Roa- if he knows what's in the ordos' pms, he must be an ordo.
In which case his behaviour is quite extraordinary...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

FW: Gifted

I wasn't putting them in order. Note what I said about Nogrod, too- he's probably not gifted, unless I'm completely misinterpreting the meta-reasoning thing. Which I could be, at that.
-Bes, remember not to let your inbox get full

.

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

Re: For tomorrow

Well, as I was reading through the thread a lot of the things you were saying just seemed to be "tense wolf." Which means absolutely nothing, because part of that was me seeing things through my knowledgeable night eyes. But generally I dislike people who seem to have little to say in their actual posts, especially those who have the reputation to be louder, but just ride on the coattails of the current action. (Which is definitely what I was doing later yesterDay... I blame it on the latter half of the day being during my classes; it's too hard to focus!)
At any rate it seems that both you and Inzil just give me "bad vibes" at some point. I'm going to be looking more into overall meta-ish playing styles than anything else. I'll also have to look into Mac as I'd basically put him on hold and I'm kind of curious now as to what everyone saw in him.
BTW, Day!me is convinced for now that Roa and Nog are the gifteds, which is why I kept on laying off them.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Nog & Roa

Indeed. If he's an ordo and thinks Roa can't be, based on the PMs, how can he be so convinced she's a wolf? Why not even consider she might be gifted?
Unless he thinks Boro's gifted and Roa wouldn't have pounced on him if she were, too. But being an ordo, he couldn't know for certain about either. So why is he so convinced of his case?
Very puzzling.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I know... but I've been trying to think up some kind of strategem that they could be using as a pair of gifteds, and nothing really works. I mean, say it's a trap and Gifted!Nogrod's hoping to get the wolves to give themselves away by saying they, too, got an "ordo" pm mentioning four wolves when the "ordo" pms said nothing of the kind. Problem: he couldn't know that. And if he guessed right- that is, the ordo pms don't really give the number- he'd just make the real ordos think he was a wolf!
Besides, I think a gifted would be unlikely to make Roa's mistake. I'm not saying rule them out, mind you, just that I don't share Mnemo's conviction about them.
More generally, we shouldn't get locked into the idea that it has to be any of the four we've been talking about. It is likely enough that at least one gifted has managed to lie low, more or less. It could be Lommy or Brinn or Loslote*, or perhaps [b]Nienna[/B- who seemed to be trying to trying to save Mac yesterDay.
I also wouldn't overlook Zil, who might indeed be a classic lupine-looking gifted. I'd say we can rule out Zil + Mac, though.
~Nerwolf.

*Prophetic!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Bes

: ( Mnemo : (
The first kill is one of our own. Arg.
So, pretty much every one of us is openly suspected at this point. I dunno if that's normal or not. Now what?

Originally Posted by Pitch

Re: : ( Mnemo : (

Yes, it's a pity about Mnemo. I'm sorry I contributed to it, but she said it was OK with her, and she really was my best choice.
Suspicion - looks like I'm getting most of it at the moment, let's see what comes toMorrow. Being attacked because I'm 'too agreeable' or 'too much either/or' is enough of a nuisance when I'm innocent, I don't take it any better when I've actually got something to hide.
To continue from last Night, I'd say we can safely forget the whole Nog and/or Roa = Gifted theory. Any new ideas on who the Gifted may be (aside from Boro and/or Mac)? Or who else deserves to be our midNight snack?
(Only thing I can say for sure, Shasta's an ordo*; evidence in his long post about Nog & Roa yesterDay, where he referred to the ordo PMs.)
By the way, Bes, I also made the mistake to assume you were female - for some reason I can't stop thinking of you as 'Bessie'. Sorry 'bout that. As you can probably tell by now, I've got the same problem because of my nick.
So, are you two still awake?
Pitch

*Well, obviously not...Grrr!

Originally Posted by Nerwen

FW: : ( Mnemo : (

Bes, each of us is suspected by a few people and thought innocent by others... which is fine, really... and you and I fall into more people's "innocent" or "unknown" categories. (You're doing well!) Pitch could be in a bit of trouble toMorrow. However, hopefully Mnemo's being a wolf will make him look better.
I'm sorry I had to turn on her, but she really stuck her own neck in the noose yesterDay. Weird. Wonder if she could have been the secret role- i.e. a kamikaze wolf? It's happened before.
The good thing is that various innocents look like they were trying to save her, and they've all been accusing each other. ToMorrow could be a lot of fun.

Wilwa likewise.
As for who the gifteds are... well there's the people I mentioned last time, but I'll read through the last two Days and see if anyone jumps out at me.
If we get stuck, could just eat Shasta, as it would look like an attempt to frame me- and even if he doesn't have a role, his psychic powers could make things difficult.
Finally, Boro appears to think Sally has a role**... but knowing Boro, that might mean he thinks nothing of the kind, and it's an attempt to lure the wolves away from the real gifteds. He does that kind of thing.
~Nerwolf.

**Surprise - she had!

Originally Posted by Bes

I hope you don't mind if I leave the heavy thinking to you on that front. My instinct is to get rid of Mac or Boro, but the first would probably make me very suspicious right now, and the second one I second guess based on what you've just said. :-/
Alternatively, I don't know if it's a good strategy, but we could maybe kill Morsul and see if the crowd decides to kill Mac for it.

Here the PMs Nerwen has posted above start. Two more after she'd gone to sleep that Night:

Originally Posted by Pitch

Re: Thoughts about Mac (and toMorrow)
Yep, I can do that***, I'll be around till Daybreak and after.
You're probably right that I'm overestimating the danger. Nog , for one, may just have been putting me through one of his little pressure tests. Still, I need to be careful - but rather not too careful, like I've seemed up to now.
Eomer has occurred to me too - it would be kinda nice to fulfil sally's wish in her after-DL post.
Zil would actually be a nice move - if we're lucky and he turns out to be Gifted, some people who were out to lynch him before could be in a bit of trouble. And as I've quite stubbornly defended him against Mac on Day 1, it might do me good.
Good night, Nerwen!
Bes, are you still around? Any comments?
Pitch

(***i.e.send in the Night kill)

Originally Posted by Pitch

Just to let you know
Since you're probably both asleep now, and since Nerwen said it's OK with her, I've decided to spare Mac toNight - for sporting reasons, as Nerwen said - and go for Zil.
If Zil turns out ordo, however, we should definitely get rid of Mac next Night.
I just realized I have to do some shopping before DL, so I'm going to send in the kill now; hope you have no objections, Bes.
Good luck for toMorrow!
Pitch

Originally Posted by Bes

FW: Night Kill

I was actually at work, on a day I didn't expect to be, but Ihave no problems with this. Yummy Inzil.

Night 4

Originally Posted by Pitch

Re: Ranger

No, the Ranger doesn't die protecting someone - unless the wolves have already spotted them and decide to kill them instead of the Seer, as they can't protect themselves at the same time as another person.
Of course they can't know for certain she's not a wolf, but every innocent in their right senses will be willing to take the chance (unless there's a counter-reveal) - especially as this is her only Night to dream.
Bad thing is, even if she doesn't dream one of us, she'll give them a known innocent (in addition to herself). So your impulse to get rid of her was of course correct, but it wouldn't have worked - and believe me, if I'd known how to do it better, I'd have tried.
Sorry again - I really had to occasionally remind myself 'remember you're a wolf' toDay. Problem is, when I'm too conscious of my wolvery, I end up as being too hesitant, too balanced, too agreeable etc. So toDay I tried to play as much like an innocent as I could and keep our interests in the back of my mind at the same time. It's an uneasy balance.
Anyway, I've really got to get some RL things done now. See you.
Pitch

Originally Posted by Pitch

Re: More on the Nightkill

Brinn or Greenie? Either would be good, although Greenie would leave a trail to me, as she's been keeping stubbornly suspecting me. Unless I'm overlooking something (as I said, I haven't had time to re-read the thread) Brinn had no strong feelings about any of us, so she might be a good choice.
Are you two around, and what do you say?
Pitch

Originally Posted by Pitch

DL approaching...
Hey, is either of you there? I suppose we should send in the kill a little before DL, to give Legate time to finish the narration, so...??
If I don't hear from you till, let's say, a quarter to DL, I'll decide to go for Brinn.
Pitch

Originally Posted by Pitch

Once more about Brinn
Sorry, I totally forgot Brinn voted Nerwen on Day 1. She hasn't followed it up since, as far as I see, but her death would give Shasta new ammunition for his Nerwen-hunt. Not a good idea?
And didn't I say I'd prefer not to make a lonely decision again...
Pitch

Originally Posted by Pitch

PMing in chunks...
Or could we make it look like Shasta-wolf killed Brinn to frame Nerwen?
Or could anybody kill Greenie to frame me?
Arrgh!
Pitch

Originally Posted by Pitch to Legate

Night Kill 2
After that chunk of raw meat last Night, we'd like some salad. Or meal toNight shall be
A Little Green
Pitchwolf in proxy

Originally Posted by Legate

Re: Night Kill 2

So it happened. Looking forward to see how you are going to proceed from there, alas, mess happens. By the way - I thought about just noting this to you just in case - I have quoted your PM to Greenie (the thing about salad) as we have been at one place when I was posting for the DL, but Lommy was close there and I am not sure if she didn't overhear and would not remember the content of the PM, so that's just so if you had the idea to use a similar phrasing on the thread (an unlikely possibility, but it occured to me to just to mention it to be on the safe side). Otherwise I of course didn't say anything about your identity or anything like that, just the salad joke...

So, otherwise, good luck for toDay and even fur the future (ha, I'm leaving the typo there ) for you and all your pack.

[Inziladun]

That was a nice bit of wolf-on-wolf between you and Mnemo, Pitch. Mnemo was so over-the-top, outrageously creepy Day 2 it seemed too easy that she would be a wolf!
And you did me a bit of a favour by doing me in, as I ended up being a lot busier than I thought I'd be with RL stuff.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That was a nice bit of wolf-on-wolf between you and Mnemo, Pitch. Mnemo was so over-the-top, outrageously creepy Day 2 it seemed too easy that she would be a wolf!

Yes, but believe me when I say that she's telling the truth; she always acts like that.

[the phantom]

Oh no Legate, you blew my cover before checking first to see if the participants wished to physically harm anyone behind the "false start"! According to Mnemo your slip has cost me my life.

Well, since I have little time left, I had better explain. The idea sprang forth suddenly out of a soil of Day 1 complaints- "I hate Day 1", "Day 1s are annoying", "Day 1 is a shot in the dark", "Day 1 is random", etc etc...

People often use completely different voting reasoning on Day 1. There have been no deaths or votes, and so it is rare that someone actually looks worthy of a Day 1 vote, particularly if you must vote early in the Day. And so it is logical to use criteria other than suspicion. There is, for instance, the infamous noob-pass that I and others extend to players that we have never played with. Additionally there is the died-early-last-time pass that a player is granted if he was an unfortunate early victim in the previous game. Some grant a noisy-player pass, figuring that leaving a loud player alive will make for a more talkative game, with the added bonus that due to his words you will form an opinion of him later, while the same cannot be said of "submarine" type players. And of course there are friend/roomate/relative passes that may be given out, or in fact work in reverse (e.g. it'd be easier to play this game without this individual that I'm around a lot looking over my shoulder).

I was thinking about these problems one day and it hit me- the answer was quite simple. If you don't wish for Day 1 random voting, Day 1 free passes, and Day 1 non suspicion based voting to impact the game, just don't have a Day 1! Duh. Skip to Day 2.

Well sure, but how? That's impossible. You technically have to have a Day 1. The game must have a starting day, right?

Solution- have a Day 1 without consequences.

Problem- but if people know that there are not consequences on Day 1, they will act out of character and there will be no reason for them to try and accomplish anything, and the day will simply be wasted and Day 2 will become Day 1.

Solution- have a Day 1 without consequences but don't warn anyone.

Now, naturally that would leave open the possibility of disaster (the Seer is about to be "lynched" on the fake Day 1 and reveals), so included in the PMs to the gifteds/WWs there must be a rule forbidding any sort of Day 1 reveal or hinting. But obviously you cannot reveal the true reason, so you must lie to them. Make up a reason. Tell them, perhaps, that you wish to see Day 1 truly be in the spirit of Day 1- a random lynch with no guidance or revealing. Any reason you tell them is fine, so long as they don't know the true reason.

Enter Legate. I saw that he was on the Mod list, and I thought he was the sort who would appreciate the thought behind the idea, be interested in the results such a stunt would yield, was bold enough to try something untested, and clever enough to pull it off. My thanks to you, sir, for breathing life into the dream.

And now in the interest of self preservation I am off to purchase a duck-gun.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Oh no Legate, you blew my cover before checking first to see if the participants wished to physically harm anyone behind the "false start"! According to Mnemo your slip has cost me my life.

That was intentional. I had to act fast so that I don't get harmed myself. That's how the business works.

Anyway, I think the idea itself - speaking from my point of view as a Mod - was good enough and it indeed was something that sort of coped with the "Day 1s are no good"-issue (I must say I liked it the most when I was reading these comments on the thread too and thinking "just you wait..."), on the other hand, it sort of created Day 1 all over again. At the beginning of Day 2, I was wondering if people would not actually consider it boring that we have Day 1 again (even though with some more information and stuff).

But I just wonder if there would be any other way to bypass the "random Day 1" issue - as this one idea is basically impossible to re-create.

[Mnemosyne]

Aha! A phantom sighting! *dons camo*

And Legate, thank you for outing this miscreant, as going over to Europe to hunt you down and kill you would have been much, much more expensive...

As far as "fixing Day Ones" goes, the easiest way to deal with the problem in my book is to have rules sufficiently different that people can discuss new-fangled hare-brained schemes and thus 1). get some serious discussion done and 2). have some concrete means of judging other people.

In a regular game, the closest way one can deal with such a situation is for one person to do something completely ridiculous, like vote on a grudge or go after someone for making a slip as to the number of wolves, to give everyone else stuff to discuss. But I can't think of any ways to repeat what you just did, unless someone announces "we can never do this again!" and then does it again.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And now in the interest of self preservation I am off to purchase a duck-gun.

And this is why Mnemo keeps me around....


Good idea though; the reasoning behind it makes quite a bit of sense, as Day Ones do suck yet are necessary. Love it.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

And this is why Mnemo keeps me around....

*luffs her human shield*

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Mnemosyne

*luffs her human shield*

*snuggles her duckling*

Or you could just turn sideways. That would work too.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

That was fantastic to watch, especially after Bes informed on who the wolves were. I couldn't help laughing over and over again, especially at Nog, with "So and so must be a wolf! There is no other explanation!" Oh, sweetie, you make me giggle.

Heh, most of the times I'm pretty unsure about things like everyone else... up to being as to-and-fro as Lommy!

And now I was such confident with a few people who I ended up having wrong.

Well, that's the game. And that's part of why it is so entertaining time after time.

Congrats to the wolves and thanks for the great narrative-idea & nice gamemechanics Legate!

I'm still in a crazy hurry with all the schoolwork and have no time to make any comments and thanks I'd like to. But I'll come back to that as soon as I have even an half an hour...

[Pitchwife]

Legate (and phantom ): I think the 'fake Day 1' was a nice idea, actually - and making it an unforeseen Special Event probably was the only way to have it work and avoid the tedium of two regular Day 1's. It sucked to miss the Night kill, of course, and while the lack of a Day 1 lynch was in a way balanced or compensated by the additional sacrifice later, we didn't get a 2 kill Night - but hey, we won nevertheless, so what. In general, I quite like the idea of Special Events - it adds a lot to the suspense of the game when you don't know what sort of mischief your Mod is going to come up with next, and the secret Birthday Dreamer role worked in the same way.
All in all, kudos for creative and sovereign modding! As for the narrations, that story rocked - especially the final revelation. If not for fear of spoiling the end, you might as well have called this "At the Mountains of Thangorodrim" - a nice literary crossover! (And I'm somewhat relieved that my initial apprehension that Father Christmas and his friend the Polar Bear would show up at some point and play a perverted role was proven unjustified...)

Now for all you poor innocents - you started off fairly well, getting rid of Mnemo and me within four Days, but then you just had a sore run of bad luck. I found it quite educational to watch, from a double outside perspective (dead, i.e. uninvolved, and wolf, i.e. knowing exactly who was innocent and who wasn't), how you went on suspecting and lynching each other for all the wrong reasons, while sporadic flares of suspicion towards the real wolves were for some reason never followed up. I mean, take for example Boro's self-sacrifice vote - didn't that literally scream "frustrated ordo despairing of his wits and the corner he's manoeuvered himself into"? I found that so totally understandable, and so totally failed to see how anybody could construe any wolvish motives behind it. But I'm of course quite aware that I can only say all this with the benefit of knowledge, and as an innocent I'd have been as clueless as any of you.
Nog's Birthday Dreamer theory was a real chestnut (do I have to say I cheered at my screen when I read it?) - but the funny thing is, it might have been true! (and by Draugluin's molars, wouldn't that have been cool for us?) And once the theory was out there, it's quite logical you had to test it some way. Best intentions and logical choices furthering the triumph of evil - there's something bordering on the tragical in all this.
For the Gifted team, sally and Shasta - you did very well staying under our wolvish radar until close to the end, and your plan about using the sacrifice/lynch was quite ingenious; did you work that out together, or was it wholly your idea, sally? And Shasta, you impressed me - I hadn't seen you so involved and active in the one or two games we'd played together before, but this time I realized that you can be a player to be feared when you put your mind to it.
Everybody else - you all did your best, but **** happens. Better luck next time!