Game thread - Werewolf C - The Father Christmas Murders

[Inziladun]

Well done, Ranger!

In answer to Coppermirror, my top suspect nearing DL yesterDay was you, for what looked like opportunistic voting in you following Lommy. I didn't recall you thinking me particularly suspicious before that time, and it looked dodgy.

Originally Posted by McCaber

When Boro got that second vote, he was the one put on the chopping block. No one else really suspected Inzil, so I'm not sure there wasn't some ulterior motive. Reasonable enough explanation, but I'm still wondering why he went with Boro over sally.

Sally simply hadn't been around much, and I didn't want to vote for her on that basis.

[Galadriel55]

Ha! That should show these two villains that they aren't the boss here! That should show them that the situation could be reversed! And it will be reversed! We'll make them scared instead of beig afraid of them! Way to go, Ranger!

[/weird random obligatory IC]*

But way to go Ranger for real!

Also, as a bit of thought from yesterDay, people should try and make an effort to post a bit more. Shasta, I know you know better than not to post like that again toDay. Steve and Nerwen too. You guys posted, but it was much too little for a proper evaluation. That's not to speak of sallycakes. Agreed that Shasta posted quite a lot. But very little different things, if I may say so. So, more please!

I'm going to look back at the thread and try to figure out what's where regarding the Night kill. I'll read everything over carefully and I suggest everyone does too. It would be hilarious if the wolves tried to kill their own cobbler!

Also going to do some figuring about the Boro-lynch.


*As a side note, I do not know anythng about Rudolph other than that he was a red nosed reindeer who had a very shiny nose that glows... Therefore it's hard for me to do strictly Rudolph IC banter when I'm in the mood.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, that was certainly something pleasant to wake up to this morning. Excellent job, ranger!

I have loads of things to do today, but I'll be around from time to time and will be able to vote. Of course I have to catch up first....

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I'm going to look back at the thread and try to figure out what's where regarding the Night kill. I'll read everything over carefully and I suggest everyone does too. It would be hilarious if the wolves tried to kill their own cobbler!

It's pretty difficult to make anything of a Night-kill that didn't happen. Isn't that just blind speculation?

[satansaloser2005]

In his #32, Morsul says Boro is "seeming pretty tame." Interesting choice of words....

In the same post, Morsul also says it's terrifying that Gal thinks like him (and that maybe she should get her head checked). I don't know if it's just the way Morsul runs his sentences together or what, but to say that she was like him, and that it was scary, but not furry scary....I'm not sure what to think of it. Probably just typical Morsul. Thoughts from others, perhaps?

In Lommie's #48, she says Dun feels intentionally lazy. I don't think I agree with this sentiment, in fact, though we'll get to that later. Agan wants him alive, and thus Dun is clearly a wolf.

Legate comments on Boro's lack of initiative in his #50 and #53, but we now know my ice cold prince meant us no harm. Given that Legate later voted for Boro, I am rather suspicious of this. His accusations just don't seem right to me.

Coppermirror's #55 mentions Dun's "this could be damaging" statements, which make Cop rather uneasy. This sentiment, unlike Lommie's, is one I am inclined to agree with. It looks shifty to me, not unlike a wolf looking to make himself look better by being unwilling to discuss that which might harm the village, all the while thinking about it from the safety of his igloo.

Nerwen's questioning of Legate's questioning in #60 brings up another good point: It's good to ask questions, but the one he asked about the cobbler seems strange to me. Asking if the cobbler were cursed would be a different matter entirely, but asking what he did doesn't sit right with me.

An even better point in the same post is Cop pointing out the possibility of a gifted Nerwen, though that seemed rather out of the question even before Boro was revealed to be innocent; Nerwen has always struck me as more smooth than that. Covering all the bases seems fair, but I generally don't like the idea of "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" being said out loud. I'm not ready to lynch Cop based just on this, but I don't like it either.

Boro's "next person in line should or shouldn't be killed because" or whatever plan wasn't the most sound idea I've heard, but Legate's reaction to it seems just as false as Legate claims Boro's plan is in the former's #61.

Gal's #72 gives a good shorthand of my difficulty with reading most of this game. So many IC things and Christmas silliness that I legitimately can't tell who's joking and who's actually talking about things.

In #85, Steve doesn't find Legate to be innocent, but he doesn't want to lynch him because he's generating discussion. That is a course of action that will kill us if Legate is a wolf. Take, for instance, Nog. Yes, Nog brings discussion and good points to the table. He is a balanced, talkative, sensible player. But if he's evil, he's evil, and we kill him. He doesn't get a pass just because he's keeping the thread active, and neither should Legate. This approach concerns me.

I appreciate Shasta standing up for me in his #95. *nuzzles* That's my lad.



Thus endeth Day 1. My commentary on toDay will be, well, less, unfortunately, but it'll be along, or at the very least a list.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I don't want to lead everyone off on a wild goose chase, but I'm still really confused about what Boromir was talking about yesterDay when he thought that there was something going on between me, G55 and Legate. Unfortunately he's not here to answer. I thought that maybe he was the cobbler when he posted that, but since he's a proven ordo now, his suspicion must have been genuine. And I have no idea what it could have been based on, which is annoying. Does anybody else have a guess?

Well, he said that something's going on, but he can't tell if good or bad.

Originally Posted by McCaber

If sally is a wolf, than it's likely that Eonwe would be one too, moving the vote off her to someone else.

If Inzil is a wolf, then it's likely that you would be one too. Same logic.

Originally Posted by Cabbie

Going just off voting records, G55 is looking rather suspicious throwing in a meaningless vote for someone which no chance of getting lynched, which is usually a good way for a wolfpack to not look united.

A person who I said I would probably vote a good few hours before that, who, incidentally, was not without suspicion himself, with some people yet to vote.

Now, to the reversal of our situation from gloomy to a cheerful one (ie let's catch wolf): here's a list.

Cabbie - very secretive, he is.
Nerwen - posts like she would regardless of role.
Legate - hmm, humm, mayhap this one is not so alarming in hindsight.
Morsul - doesn't give a wolfy impression, but I wish he would write his thoughts a bit clearer.
Lommy - want to hear more from Da Penguin to have a solid impression. Just based on her vote, she's doing fine so far.
Cop - mixed feelings about her, really. Questionable. Like I said yesterDay, seemed both to be bandwagoning and almost being shoved into a bandwagon.
Steve - yet another one who I would like to see more of.
Shasta - careful and attentive reader, just like he always is. I know from experience that he knows what he's doing, and I hope he's doing it well and for the benefit of the right people.
Zil - his vote makes it hard to judge him either way, as both an innocent and a wolf could vote to save themselves. But I would echo Cop's request to hear who your susspects were (and are).
Sally – I hope you can catch up quickly so that we can hear you too.

Basically... erm, I can summarize the list with "more posts". It all comes down to more posts and information toDay.

This Day will last two Days, right?

EDIT: xed with sally! Yay!

[Morsul the Dark]

ThinLommy hey hey hey

Post 14: Lists first impressins clear just thoughts on each player on their own traits.

38-Decides to do another list
43- discusses Copp

Post 48- Votes Zil for seeming sort of lazy, admits not the strongest mostly gut



SO it feels like Lommy is trying to make genuine prgress but running into blocks.

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm currently thinking maybe a MCab Zil pacK

Zil's suspicions of Copper have grwn legs and spread but certain things she's saying make me doubt her furryness.

Mccab's vote for Sally seems rough, Sally just didn't make it here to post often yesterday I think we all gt caught up.

Nerwen Sally and I didn't vote this is fairly normal for NErwen but for Sally and I not so much I usually throw a half reasoned vote ut there Sally tries to be more meticulous... So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Nerwen Sally and I didn't vote this is fairly normal for NErwen but for Sally and I not so much I usually throw a half reasoned vote ut there Sally tries to be more meticulous... So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)?

[Eönwë]

So it looks like I was busier than I thought. But seriously, how has so little been said since I left? I'm going to go and reread and finally write that post now.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)?

Does this help?

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Zil - his vote makes it hard to judge him either way, as both an innocent and a wolf could vote to save themselves. But I would echo Cop's request to hear who your susspects were (and are).

I addressed that here.

As for current suspicions, you would be one. Did you give up on "figuring out" the Night-kill?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

This Day will last two Days, right?

I think so: DL is usual time on 12/25.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)?

Seconded.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Does this help?

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.

Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[Eönwë]

Ok, I've just lost the post I was writing, so I may as well give what I assume Morsul means while trying to start again:

Originally Posted by Morsul, edited by Eonwe

Nerwen, Sally and I didn't vote- this is fairly normal for Nerwen but not so much for me and Sally. I usually throw a half reasoned vote out there and Sally tries to be more meticulous. So a vote based on her participation looks odd to me - safe - since sally won't be lynched but he's not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I addressed that here.

Ah, sorry. Must have missed that. My apologies.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Did you give up on "figuring out" the Night-kill?

No, actually.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Ok, I've just lost the post I was writing, so I may as well give what I assume Morsul means while trying to start again:

Would you like a part-time job as a translator?

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Legate This post seems like a good a jumping point as any

What did you mean here, Morsul?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

What did you mean here, Morsul?

This is what I got out of it:

Opinion about Legate: his post (quoted above in Morsul's real post) seems as good a starting point as any (for discussion, action, etc)

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)?

You're usually quite active when pssible a vote for low participation makes no sense.

Voting fr you does two things He gets a safe vote(IE you wouldn't be lynched.)
Lets say IF you're innocent that lynch wouldve put MCab in everyone's minds tday. because there was no way yu were going to be lynched that problem doesn't exist.

Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

I tried to be thorough let me know if it's still not clear.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

You're usually quite active when pssible a vote for low participation makes no sense.

Voting fr you does two things He gets a safe vote(IE you wouldn't be lynched.)
Lets say IF you're innocent that lynch wouldve put MCab in everyone's minds tday. because there was no way yu were going to be lynched that problem doesn't exist.

Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

I tried to be thorough let me know if it's still not clear.

The only issue with that is that sally came darn close to being lynched for non-participation. If there was a safe sally-vote, it would have been for the reason that it doesn't tell anything about the role or the relationship of that person. Both wolves and innocents could vote for quiet people.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

This is what I got out of it:

Opinion about Legate: his post (quoted above in Morsul's real post) seems as good a starting point as any (for discussion, action, etc)

My god girl, you, you understand me?

When I typed that I legate first which made the though mre clear... I meant his post was a good one to get serious on.


X'ed G55 I suppose that's true... Just seemed everyone's "she's quiet" was such an odd reason...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

My god girl, you, you understand me?

I do?

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

This is what I got out of it:

Opinion about Legate: his post (quoted above in Morsul's real post) seems as good a starting point as any (for discussion, action, etc)

Right here you had my precise meaning

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

When I typed that I legate first which made the though mre clear...

Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve.... *whimpers*


EDIT: x'd with an understandable Morsul. God bless us, every one.

[Eönwë]

#14 - Lommy's 'semi-real' list.
Potential suspicions:
G55
Morsul
Boro


#18 - Boro
Lommy, but he's not sure what.


#24 - G55
Brings up the reindeer-translating Lommy/Nerwen/Boro possibility, then rejects it straight away.


#29 - Boro
Adds CM to the Lommy/Nerwen/Boro trio to be discussed.

#31 - Morsul
Likes:
Boro
Lommy
[Something I don't understand with Legate]


#34 - Zil
Doesn't think it's worth examining the trio.


#35 - McCaber
Suspects Legate


#39 - Lommy posts a serious list.

Likes:
CM
Morsul
McCaber

Dislikes:
G55
Zil (possibly)

Uncertain of:
Legate
Boro


#44 - CM's semi-serious list

Potential accusation:
G55
Nerwen


#47 - Shasta
Has G55 is over-helpful, then retracts


#48 - Lommy votes
Zil


#50 - Legate-list

Suspects:
G55
Zil
Boro

Don't seem bad:
CM
Morsul
Nerwen
McCaber
Lommy


#51 - G55's gut-feeling post.

Likes:
Shasta
Zil

Unsure:
Morsul
CM
Nerwen
Lommy

Suspects:
Legate
Boro


#55 - Serious CM list

Likes:
Boro
Morsul
Lommy

Unsure:
Shasta
Nerwen
Legate

Dislikes:
G55
Inzil


#56 - Zil
Likes Lommy


#61 - Legate
Potential Boro suspicion


#62 - G55
Suspects:
Boro
Lommy


#65 - Legate
VERY light suspicion of CM


#70 - CM
Top suspect: Zil
Next suspect: G55


#72 - G55
Most likely to vote: Legate
Also suspects: Boro


#73 - Legate
Votes Boro

Vote tally:
Lommy -> Zil
Legate -> Boro

#74 - CM
Votes Zil

Vote tally:
Lommy -> Zil
Legate -> Boro
CM -> Zil (2)


#75 - McCaber
Plans to vote Sally


#79 - Steve-list

Innocent:
G55
Morsul

Not innocent enough:
Zil
Boro
McCaber
Lommy
Legate (as a Cobbler)


#80 - Boro
Suspects CM


#81 - Zil
Doesn't like:
CM
G55


#83 - Boro
Votes Sally

Vote tally:
Lommy -> Zil
Legate -> Boro
CM -> Zil (2)
Boro -> Sally


#84 - G55
Wants to go for Legate
Claims there's a CM bandwaggon


#85 - Steve
CM not cobbler

Though not entirely innocent, would rather not lynch:
Zil
Legate


#87 - Zil
Suspects Legate
Claims there is no CM bandwaggon


[TO BE CONTINUED]


And now I absolutely have to go, sadly just before the important part. I should be back in a few hours for a few hours, and then that'll be it for me until after Christmas.



edit: x-ed since my last.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve.... *whimpers*


EDIT: x'd with an understandable Morsul. God bless us, every one.

'

Minus a typo or two I'm not writing in code, poeple are starting this "Morsul is confusing" thing beyond a limit.

[Morsul the Dark]

++mcCab

for reasons above... Also not sure I'll be back before DL tomorrow

[Galadriel55]

I can totally understand those wolves. The lack of participation would make anyone not celebrating want to cancel Christmas.


In all seriousness, I hope that all of you are enjoying your Christmas in whichever way you're celebrating it, and WW is just WW. It happens more than once a year.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Can't speak for everyone, but that's why I haven't been here. And I likely won't be until later. I'll still be here at some point during the day, though.

Merry Christmas, all!

[Inziladun]

Ditto here. I'll be on later tomorrow as much as possible.

I wish you all a merry and blessed Christmas.

[Eönwë]

So, it looks like I'm not going to have any more time for toDay. I also feel, that with so little activity so far, it would be wrong to vote at this stage, so I'm abstaining for the Day.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

[McCaber]

Merry Christmas, and may God bless us, everyone! (Wolves and other such unpleasant company excepted, of course.)

So I return from a holiday party to find that Morsul has voted me, for essentially voting sally like I said I would. Ultimata matter, so I backed up mine with action.

I'm still not really sure how Boro became the most suspicious one yesterDay. Legate was the first one to really suspect him, but I'm more inclined to believe that he was just trying to make a conversation happen than I am he's a wolf. G55, as near as I can tell, was the one who rolled with that accusation and made it stick.

Now according to our moddess we'll have yet another day before a DL. It looks like I won't have to go out all guns blazing on that but instead can get a night's sleep and see what things look like in the light of day. Evening, folks.

[Coppermirror]

Happy Christmas, everyone! I've been having a great day. I'm going to respond to a couple of things people were saying to/about me and then I'm going to settle down and look at the voting record from yesterDay, go over the people I missed covering in my earlier post toDay, think about toDay so far, and try to catch us a wolf. I'm not sure how far I'll get with that before I go to sleep, but I'll make sure to do that when I wake up if not.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

In answer to Coppermirror, my top suspect nearing DL yesterDay was you, for what looked like opportunistic voting in you following Lommy. I didn't recall you thinking me particularly suspicious before that time, and it looked dodgy.

Oh, I get it then. So, it's not just the fact I voted for you but that I didn't plainly mention a suspicion of you before she cast her vote for you. That's fair enough considering how little there was to by for anyone yesterDay. Although since Lommy was the first voter and few people at that point had put down any serious suspicion of anyone, that reasoning would have risked anyone making a second vote for you looking dodgy.

I don't know if you're still suspicious of me on those grounds, but in case you are, there's something which might be able to set your mind at rest. Note that when I first stated that I suspected you, my reasoning was this:

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Inzil the Snowman. I feel uneasy about Inzil's comments, but I can't put my finger on why, and don't want to make a mistake. He suggested that analysing things too much at this point could be damaging, which is true, especially for the Boro-Nerwen-Lommy thing he was talking about. But we have to analyse based on what we have in front of us, or not at all, so there's no choice. Maybe it was his suggestion that it would harm the Christmas spirit that's bothering me.

That follows on in reasoning from a post I made before Lommy cast her vote, where my comment about you was

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Zil - Frosty: Thinks that speculation based on nothing will only harm us and those of us who are in the Christmas spirit. I am very much a Christmas Spirit, so I sympathise with his views. But even so, we must analyse things. It's the weighing up of value that we must use our Christmas cheer for.

^ It should be possible for you to see my thought process there.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

An even better point in the same post is Cop pointing out the possibility of a gifted Nerwen, though that seemed rather out of the question even before Boro was revealed to be innocent; Nerwen has always struck me as more smooth than that. Covering all the bases seems fair, but I generally don't like the idea of "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" being said out loud. I'm not ready to lynch Cop based just on this, but I don't like it either.

Basically, I considered whether what Nerwen said in that post could have been a potential Seer hint and decided it wasn't, but that it might be a wolf or cobbler trying to make themselves look that way. Because I'd decided it wasn't likely to be a genuine Seer hint, I didn't worry about saying so. See, the rest of what I was going on to say was that Nerwen's statement could have been "a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish". The possibility of what she said being a Seer looking Seer-ish would have been implicit in that, even if I hadn't said I'd considered it (and decided it couldn't be).

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!"). I would find that sort of rephrasing suspicious of itself, but a few more people seemed to think the point was fair. Looks as if I've misjudged the level of paranoia for that element of the game.

And now I've finished writing this, there isn't time for the more productive stuff I'd hoped to cover. I'll have to do that in the morning.

Hope everyone's been having a great time!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Basically, I considered whether what Nerwen said in that post could have been a potential Seer hint and decided it wasn't, but that it might be a wolf or cobbler trying to make themselves look that way. Because I'd decided it wasn't likely to be a genuine Seer hint, I didn't worry about saying so. See, the rest of what I was going on to say was that Nerwen's statement could have been "a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish". The possibility of what she said being a Seer looking Seer-ish would have been implicit in that, even if I hadn't said I'd considered it (and decided it couldn't be).

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!").

Have a sugar-plum, my dear, and let me explain something. You may not think we of Fairyland know very much about footwear manufacture– but please remember the Shoemaker and the Elves.

Well. If one is the cobbler, and one believes one may have located a gifted, it is necessary merely to communicate this interesting fact to the wolves. Adding that the person in question "probably isn't" the Seer, with no reasoning at all behind it, won't change anything– the wolves will still see your post, and will draw their own conclusions.

I'm not saying that's what you actually did– this is not an accusation– but if you want to know why people didn't like your post, that's why.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by McCaber

I'm still not really sure how Boro became the most suspicious one yesterDay. Legate was the first one to really suspect him, but I'm more inclined to believe that he was just trying to make a conversation happen than I am he's a wolf. G55, as near as I can tell, was the one who rolled with that accusation and made it stick.

Can you say that again please, because I think I'm missing something? What accusation? I do not believe I've accused Boro of wolvery at any point.

And, in reality, Boro's words about Legwolf making an easy target of him are quite believable.

[Galadriel55]

And a photo of me:



;-)

PS: that's just some Gary that signed it...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Merry Christmas all, or belated ones, hope you have enjoyed/are still enjoying it... Also, because of Christmas (as I'm sure for many of us), I am not going to be here posting anything long (I will be around more once again later), so for now only a few notes...

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Legate, could you explain it a bit more, as concisely as possible?

It was several factors, of course. Basically the first thing about Boro that raised my attention, was him not behaving the way I am used to him behaving. He tends to be active and poking around people, especially when he's innocent (previously I had actually caught Borowolf a few times based on that, resp. once he killed me because he had succeeded in talking me out of it). Anyway, that was the starter, though at that point he wasn't alone - well, basically nobody had spoken anything actual at that point. But he was one of those I had expected to say something of value (given that it was like 5 hours before DL and midnight my time!). What sort of moved this further were his replies to me, which, looking back, is actually what I think had cost him my vote. But his posting just looked "dishonest" to me, or however should I call it, it simply had the sort of fabricated tone: he started really strong defense - it wasn't the content of it, but the manner. Especially that "why would you vote person X instead of you"-list idea seemed really fabricated, I still get that feeling when I remember it even now. And well, then I had to vote.

Speaking of this, to transit to the present, I still have similar feeling about some people's posts, similar like I did yesterDay. Mainly G55's posts sometimes give rather "fake" vibe, and partially also Cop - namely of the current issues, I am not 100% sure what to make of Cop's "pre-prepared" post. I am fine with somebody writing a post overNight when they know they e.g. are not going to have time to write in the Morning, even though of course we could debate how fishy is that since anyway, nobody except for Wolves knows who is going to die (thus how the mechanics of the game will look in the morning), and, perhaps more importantly, nobody except Wolves knows whether they are going to survive till morning - so what if it's a waste of time, huh? Of course, it can be only a nice brain exercise - but more importantly, I am not sure if I'm buying what Cop did, apparently making a point of having a pre-prepared post and showing off to us all that it contains the pre-made line "oh, poor Boro and [name]". Sort of looks to me like something a Wolf could do as "look everyone, here's a proof I didn't know who was going to die toNight, and I am proving it by showing you that in my draft, there is a blank spot I intended to fill in after the narration has been posted". I think an innocent could have pretty well just deleted the second name from the sentence after finding out that no [name] died, but this looks to me like intentional effort of trying to prove one's innocence.

From new things toDay I am feeling somewhat uncertain about Steve (his replies to McCab), though that's more just the air of it, nothing specific. And I still feel more or less genuine vibes from Morsul especially, even though I'd join to ask him to make his thoughts a bit clearer to us (and his vote seems a bit rushed, but apparently he thought DL might come).

Looking forward to see more people posting in the following time, also there are many I would like to form my opinion more strongly about (people with less show yesterDay like Shasta, people with less input yesterDay like Zil, people with no vote, like Nerwen and sally).
Like I said, I am not promising to be around extensively, but I hope to chime in at least once or twice tomorrow my time.

EDIT: x-ed with G55's very nice themed pictures

[Coppermirror]

Rolling up my long, ghostly sleeves now...

I may be dragged out somewhere for an outing this afternoon, and I'm not sure when that will end, so there's a risk I'll miss the deadline. If I can decide on a vote in the next hour or so, I'll place it. Which means I've got to try to get through all this really quickly.

Originally Posted by McCaber

Voting record:
Lommy--> Inzil (1)
Legate--> Boro (1) *Not bolded
Cop--> Inzil (2)
Boro--> Sally (1)
McCaber--> Sally (2)
Steve--> Boro (2)
G55--> Legate (1)
Inzil--> Boro (3)
Shasta--> Boro (4)

Looking only at the voting record, the only person we know to be innocent was Boro, and he got 4 votes.

Of these:

Legate - hasn't shown up yet toDay, and so hasn't been able to answer my question asking for clarification about the reasons for finding Boro suspicious. I'm a bit in limbo on this issue, accordingly.

Eonwe - had been considering the possibility of a Boro-Legate pack. Other than that I can't seem to find his reasoning for his Boro vote. This is a bit unfortunate.

Eonwe, why did you vote for Boro? (...Based on what he said earlier, there's a big risk he won't be around to answer this.)

Inzil - says it was because he didn't want to vote for Sally, who mostly hadn't showed up and didn't have an opportunity to defend herself. That's not an unreasonable stance.

Shasta - voted right after Inzil did. They posted in the same minute, so it's possible that (a) he thought he was breaking the tie and hadn't seen Inzil's vote, or (b) he did see it, but wasn't prepared to raise up any other candidate (Sally or Inzil ) to three votes and force a tie/he needed to cast a vote.

His reasoning is just that Boro should have known better than to vote for somebody who wasn't there. He also didn't want to vote for any of the top three candidates. That's not unreasonable either.

It's difficult to draw a conclusion from all this. Legate drew a target on Boro for reasons I don't understand, and Eonwe followed up with a second vote based on reasoning I can't find (other than the possibility of a Boro-Legate pack).

For a moment I'll throw around the possibility of a Legate-Eonwe pack (and guys, I'm not accusing you here, just imagining scenarios). Legate apparently has a habit of voting for Boro early on in games. Knowing that and that Boro is innocent, they could use that as cover for a Boro vote, and Eonwe could follow on with it...But if that was planned out, would Eonwe omit to give any firm reasoning? Wolf-Eonwe wouldn't want to say "I suspect him for the same reason Legate does", but I find it hard to believe that someone would skimp on finding another reason. Provisionally, I'm going to conclude it's not likely that we have a Legate-Eonwe pack here. It's also just not likely that two wolves would vote for the same person when they're only a two-wolf pack.

Ah, and I see as I write this that Legate has posted with his reasoning for the Boro vote. I'll have to read that.

Nice pictures, G55!

[Galadriel55]

Cop, the Modess has kindly extended the Day for another day. You don't have to worry about voting.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Speaking of this, to transit to the present, I still have similar feeling about some people's posts, similar like I did yesterDay. Mainly G55's posts sometimes give rather "fake" vibe, and partially also Cop - namely of the current issues, I am not 100% sure what to make of Cop's "pre-prepared" post. I am fine with somebody writing a post overNight when they know they e.g. are not going to have time to write in the Morning, even though of course we could debate how fishy is that since anyway, nobody except for Wolves knows who is going to die (thus how the mechanics of the game will look in the morning), and, perhaps more importantly, nobody except Wolves knows whether they are going to survive till morning - so what if it's a waste of time, huh? Of course, it can be only a nice brain exercise - but more importantly, I am not sure if I'm buying what Cop did, apparently making a point of having a pre-prepared post and showing off to us all that it contains the pre-made line "oh, poor Boro and [name]". Sort of looks to me like something a Wolf could do as "look everyone, here's a proof I didn't know who was going to die toNight, and I am proving it by showing you that in my draft, there is a blank spot I intended to fill in after the narration has been posted". I think an innocent could have pretty well just deleted the second name from the sentence after finding out that no [name] died, but this looks to me like intentional effort of trying to prove one's innocence.

I get you. *nods* I get you. I would generally agree with what you say. Except that I have myself written more posts overNight as an innocent than as a wolf (). But I hear what you're saying about the [name] part of it. Can't say it proves Cop's guilt or, well, proves anything, but I suppose it adds to the air of... uncertainty? Do you get me?

I will leave that for Cop to answer herself. But I must say, I will consider the points you bring up, Legate.



I'm glad you both enjoyed the pictures.

[Coppermirror]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I am fine with somebody writing a post overNight when they know they e.g. are not going to have time to write in the Morning, even though of course we could debate how fishy is that since anyway, nobody except for Wolves knows who is going to die (thus how the mechanics of the game will look in the morning), and, perhaps more importantly, nobody except Wolves knows whether they are going to survive till morning - so what if it's a waste of time, huh? Of course, it can be only a nice brain exercise - but more importantly, I am not sure if I'm buying what Cop did, apparently making a point of having a pre-prepared post and showing off to us all that it contains the pre-made line "oh, poor Boro and [name]". Sort of looks to me like something a Wolf could do as "look everyone, here's a proof I didn't know who was going to die toNight, and I am proving it by showing you that in my draft, there is a blank spot I intended to fill in after the narration has been posted". I think an innocent could have pretty well just deleted the second name from the sentence after finding out that no [name] died, but this looks to me like intentional effort of trying to prove one's innocence.

It's totally normal for me to write posts in advance of the Day beginning, if one can call things normal based upon only three games. For example, if you check the first game I played, where I was an ordo (relevant post here: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...7&postcount=67) you'll see that I used a pre-prepared post on Day 2 then, although that time I did have the time to edit it. I wrote that one even though I thought there were 50% odds I'd be the one killed overNight.

I would actually have had to do more editing than just deleting the name from the sentence there. The surrounding lines would have had to be re-written too ("What a tragedy! I'm terrified" doesn't fit at all when the Ranger's just made a great save, does it? And so forth...), and on the evening of Christmas Eve with a heck of a lot still to do, I was relieved that because of the Ranger-save I could slap an unabridged on my prepared post and go away ASAP without checking through it and making alterations.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Cop, the Modess has kindly extended the Day for another day. You don't have to worry about voting.

Yes! Thank you, Loslote-Modess. That means I can take my time.